As for the story not really connecting....I agree, but Funcom's MMO's have always been more about atmosphere than some story with an end to it. The idea of a "Secret World" that become a part of and are enlisted to battle was there before you started and will be there after you end. It's not about "defeating" the secret world, it's your journey through it. Seeing the sights, the different crazy people and the different areas and how the shape the personalities of the people in it. People that have been there MUCH longer than you have and typically have a "been there, done that attitude". Until you can understand the atmosphere and exactly what you are being dropped into, you cannot appreciate what you are witnessing.
Imho, that is the brilliance of a Funcom MMO. Anarchy Online was the same way...you understood the factions, had a slight understanding of where each one stood and from there you built the story yourself. There was a story there, but you didn't need one...the atmosphere told you everything you needed to know.
Same with Age of Conan really...but that was story driven, although you didnt have to pay it mind to build a story out of the world.
All you had to say was GW2...the twitch based, actiony zerg grind game of the year.
I am comparing TSW with GW2 because they launched at the same time. I could compare TSW with other MMO's on other subjects.. As said before, I am just stating the obvious TSW wasnt the best game by far of 2012. GW2 was.
Originally posted by oldschoolpunk
Figuring out the synergies, doing the puzzle quests and choosing skills might not appeal to you all that much..
Gameplay and storytelling is what makes me (keep) play(ing) a game. No innovative quest design with puzzles or a decent technical skill system can save a game if the gameplay is repetitive, unresponsive and has no feedback. Overall quality of a game goes down as well if the story has no plot, no character development and no emotional context.
Originally posted by oldschoolpunk
As for the story not really connecting....I agree, but Funcom's MMO's have always been more about atmosphere than some story with an end to it.
Not many MMO's can offer that
Offer no story? Destiny is the perfect example of good gameplay with no story. It didn't save them from some tough love. Same goes for TSW. You want to excuse Funcom for shitty storytelling because it's been like that in some old MMORPGs? It doesn't hold up. If you want to take your players on a journey it needs to bond on an emotional level.
That's not brilliance, thats lazy storywriting. They need to make an extra step then just copying myths and legends into their world, they need to link it with a proper journey the hero is on. Ever played The Wolf Among Us?
All you had to say was GW2...the twitch based, actiony zerg grind game of the year.
I am comparing TSW with GW2 because they launched at the same time. I could compare TSW with other MMO's on other subjects.. As said before, I am just stating the obvious TSW wasnt the best game by far of 2012. GW2 was.
Originally posted by oldschoolpunk
Figuring out the synergies, doing the puzzle quests and choosing skills might not appeal to you all that much..
Gameplay and storytelling is what makes me (keep) play(ing) a game. No innovative quest design with puzzles or a decent technical skill system can save a game if the gameplay is repetitive, unresponsive and has no feedback. Overall quality of a game goes down as well if the story has no plot, no character development and no emotional context.
Originally posted by oldschoolpunk
As for the story not really connecting....I agree, but Funcom's MMO's have always been more about atmosphere than some story with an end to it.
Not many MMO's can offer that
Offer no story? Destiny is the perfect example of good gameplay with no story. It didn't save them from some tough love. Same goes for TSW. You want to excuse Funcom for shitty storytelling because it's been like that in some old MMORPGs? It doesn't hold up. If you want to take your players on a journey it needs to bond on an emotional level.
That's not brilliance, thats lazy storywriting. They need to make an extra step then just copying myths and legends into their world, they need to link it with a proper journey the hero is on. Ever played The Wolf Among Us?
You can't compare GW2 to TSW, they are two entirely different games...GW2 barely checks off as an MMORPG...should be just an MMOG.
The storytelling style doesn't jell with you....that's fine, but that doesnt mean there isn't a story...from the onset of the announcement of TSW, it was known what you were playing and what the story was about. It wasn't about "star-crossed lovers" or "your final battle through impossible odds". It was that you were a normal person, no hero by any stretch, but that you were gifted enough to kill stuff...you are recruited by 1 of the 3 factions and you do work for them. That was the basis...the story was a series of short stories inside a game...did they intertwine? Rarely, but does my life intertwine with someone in Texas typically? (Im from PA) No, it never does.
I dont need "emotional bonding" in a game and consider it a played out and corny...but we have different opinions of it. Doesn't mean TSW doesnt have pretty in-depth storytelling to it....it just wasn't a James Cameron, cry-laugh-cry-triumph, typical blockbluster snoorefest.
It was that you were a normal person, no hero by any stretch, but that you were gifted enough to kill stuff...you are recruited by 1 of the 3 factions and you do work for them. That was the basis...the story was a series of short stories inside a game...did they intertwine? Rarely, but does my life intertwine with someone in Texas typically? (Im from PA) No, it never does.
I dont expect stories to be James Cameron blockbusters. They need to tell a tale. The easiest way to do that for a game is the trope of a journey which is obviously being used in TSW (guy gets powers, recruited and goes fight evil). It is what happens then on this journey that makes you care or not. This is where storytelling comes in.
You can use the same excuse for Destiny: "but the rest of the story was in the lore ingame and the links Bungie gave you could read when you logged into your user account.". You either tell a story or you are making shit up as you go. In TSW's case i am sure its not the latter, but its also not the first relating to the main lead/hero/player.
TSW just doesnt know where to go. Shall we do myths? Throw in a few nazis? But we also have Tokyo. And what about the conspiracy factions? I used The Wolf Among Us as an example where a story is told with the whole "myth is real" thing going on. It's just as dark and yet when it comes to narrative it outshines TSW.
Because it has a tale to tell. Something the Funcom writers clearly forgot making their MMO's.
It was that you were a normal person, no hero by any stretch, but that you were gifted enough to kill stuff...you are recruited by 1 of the 3 factions and you do work for them. That was the basis...the story was a series of short stories inside a game...did they intertwine? Rarely, but does my life intertwine with someone in Texas typically? (Im from PA) No, it never does.
I dont expect stories to be James Cameron blockbusters. They need to tell a tale. The easiest way to do that for a game is the trope of a journey which is obviously being used in TSW (guy gets powers, recruited and goes fight evil). It is what happens then on this journey that makes you care or not. This is where storytelling comes in.
You can use the same excuse for Destiny: "but the rest of the story was in the lore ingame and the links Bungie gave you could read when you logged into your user account.". You either tell a story or you are making shit up as you go. In TSW's case i am sure its not the latter, but its also not the first relating to the main lead/hero/player.
TSW just doesnt know where to go. Shall we do myths? Throw in a few nazis? But we also have Tokyo. And what about the conspiracy factions? I used The Wolf Among Us as an example where a story is told with the whole "myth is real" thing going on. It's just as dark and yet when it comes to narrative it outshines TSW.
Because it has a tale to tell. Something the Funcom writers clearly forgot making their MMO's.
I understand that that's how you operate, and Im all for it, but I don't think that Funcom ever had the intention to do that. Single player games work much better that way. Have thousands exist in the same world, not everyone gets to be the hero or gets the girl or dominates...we're all recruits in a very "X-Files" type of world....but the story is open to interpretation. Something that's more along the lines of what I like.
Also, I would hardly call it lazy to find every myth, legend, conspiracy etc. and throw it into little stories throughout your gaming experience. All the things you actually get to be introduced to in the game are pretty fascinating...Im no current history buff, so I actually learned about Jim Jones and People's Temple through this game. You don't usually get that oppurtunity in other games.
Making typical plot progressions and rounding out characters for a grand finale seems to me to be the more "lazy" approach. The stuff Funcom put in this game could have been fun for them to do, but it had to involve some level of tedium....I doubt any other game company could put out an MMO with so much historical data that is actually fun and interesting to learn about as well.
I understand that that's how you operate, and Im all for it, but I don't think that Funcom ever had the intention to do that. Single player games work much better that way. Have thousands exist in the same world, not everyone gets to be the hero or gets the girl or dominates...we're all recruits in a very "X-Files" type of world....but the story is open to interpretation. Something that's more along the lines of what I like.
Understood. And all of the sidequests work perfectly in that thought. However the main storyquest has events happening and you meeting NPC's which aren't just a X-Files case. How many times can Anima be saved? You can't project that onto the idea that every player is a recruit for the 3 factions.
If Funcom wants to go that route, I would applaud them for doing so. Dealing with story in an MMORPG is something the gaming industry as a whole is struggling with it seems like, since like you say, it works better in a single player environment. However I don't think that's the case in TSW.
Players, especially in TSW, are a bit more mature then the average MMORPG player. I don't agree theyre necessarily smarter, but you dont need to hold their hand. Thus making distressing situations a bit closer to the "hero" doesnt seem too far fetcht for me. Again, just my opinion im spoiting.
I think TSW is a great game, but the OP is right, its not a game you will stay around for. It just dont have the staying power, once you have done the quest line, it is more or less over. Still worth trying out the game for the quests though.
Still worth trying out the game for the quests though.
Even with all its flaws, with the B2P and discount you can find if you google for digital keys you can get it as low as 6 dollars iirc. That's really worth this game. Dont pay 29,99 by buying directly from the Funcom site.
And this is another irritating point. Everything Funcom does seems done like a bunch of amateurs. Its infuriating. What does GW2 do? They know theyre dated. They push a different package out on the market.
Play GW2 for free for a week and then decide if you want to buy. The pricing has a limited 50% off and if you buy it, you get a suit of legendary newbie armor, XP boosters and whatnot. You can also opt for extras.
Even though its 50% off, youre still paying 20 bucks. How hard is it to throw in some digital shit that only can be used once or in the first stages of the game? Or Funcom is so arrogant they dont give a fuck.
The video they have on the main page of TSW is a low resolution promo clip while the game runs in the highest resolutions. Move the video section with the screenshots section. This is 2014.
Nobody gives a shit about screenshots anymore, everybody watches Youtube! It's not just the game that's riddled with facepalms. Even if they did viral ads and ARG's that are lightspeed ahead:
Still worth trying out the game for the quests though.
Even with all its flaws, with the B2P and discount you can find if you google for digital keys you can get it as low as 6 dollars iirc. That's really worth this game. Dont pay 29,99 by buying directly from the Funcom site.
Well I agree about not buying from Funcom. That's an insult to injury move but I disagree about it being a bargain even at a low price. It's an MMO and the MM just aren't there lately. When you have people that feel they need to recruit from places like this forum just to have a decent size group to play with and the game has all sorts of user kluges to try and help people overcome the population problems, you have to ask SUCH A BARGAIN ?
Most MMOs these days are very much lacking, os it is always a good adivce not only to investigate the market ragarding prices but certianly also regarding the content. Pretty awsome we have Youtube for that !!
Still worth trying out the game for the quests though.
Even with all its flaws, with the B2P and discount you can find if you google for digital keys you can get it as low as 6 dollars iirc. That's really worth this game. Dont pay 29,99 by buying directly from the Funcom site.
And this is another irritating point. Everything Funcom does seems done like a bunch of amateurs. Its infuriating. What does GW2 do? They know theyre dated. They push a different package out on the market.
Play GW2 for free for a week and then decide if you want to buy. The pricing has a limited 50% off and if you buy it, you get a suit of legendary newbie armor, XP boosters and whatnot. You can also opt for extras.
Even though its 50% off, youre still paying 20 bucks. How hard is it to throw in some digital shit that only can be used once or in the first stages of the game? Or Funcom is so arrogant they dont give a fuck.
The video they have on the main page of TSW is a low resolution promo clip while the game runs in the highest resolutions. Move the video section with the screenshots section. This is 2014.
Nobody gives a shit about screenshots anymore, everybody watches Youtube! It's not just the game that's riddled with facepalms. Even if they did viral ads and ARG's that are lightspeed ahead:
DO.. NOT.. FORGET.. THE.. BASICS!
Seriously? you are going to keep going with this GW2 stuff? GW2 is one of the worst examples of an MMORPG in ages.
As for Funcom, Anarchy Online, Age of Conan and The Secret World are still talked about as great games to this day (great games to play now as well)....not sure how anyone comes to the thought that Funcom's games feels like they are made by ameteurs? did they all have poor launches...yes, but what game doesnt? WoW had an awful launch and it's first big update was even worse...
Seriously? you are going to keep going with this GW2 stuff? GW2 is one of the worst examples of an MMORPG in ages.
I couldve used any other game for that matter, but GW2 with its B2P concept and released at the same date coming with an interesting offer for their dated game is just an example how you do things right.
That you can only read the "GW2" part without commenting on the argument makes you more a fanboy then I am. I prefer TSW over GW2 because of the mature tone myself, but I admit GW2 is the better game.
Then again, you did call TSW the best MMO in over 10 years, and GW2 utter rubbish. You didn't read about the reviews making GW2 best game of 2012 and didnt see so much players moving from TSW to GW2?
And I am not talking about the average "stupid" player like you want to call it. I remember Dulfy making an excellent site for TSW. Well, when she moved to GW2 she did exactly the same there, and its still in use.
I know people who left TSW for GW2, can't say I know any going the other way. But that's small beans and subjective. GW2 was so successful they repeatedly had to throttle sales to make certain their infrastructure would support the numbers. Compare that with TSW which had such poor performance they no longer have a dedicated development team but one shared between Funcom's three MMOs.
I liked a lot about this game, but two things killed it for me: -
the fugly characters.
the clunky combat.
It's a shame that TSW didn't pick up the slack and looked a bit more at what GW2 does. TSW can learn a lot how you can do a MMORPG right, both in gameplay and storytelling. while not turning into a WoW clone.
Couldn't get over the ridiculous animations. I tried a few months back to get into it again, reinstalled and everything. The terrible animations were the same. I just couldn't. Not when there's Guild Wars 2 or any number of other games that I can play without those drawbacks.
These were issues in Beta, and with all the money and time they took they never seemed to make it a priority to fix.
TSW is a great game. No, it is not easy and no, it is not for everyone. The combat, it is said, is repetitive - agreed but then, combat is not the goal. The characters are ugly or so it it said, which is not true. However, if you want pneumatic boobs and anime pretty, this is not for you. TSW is a great game in a way few games are today and certainly no MMOs. Your quests are mystery - your tools are wit and savvy. That's a game changer there... the interface is standard - which is nice and the mobs are same-skinned through out all that changes is the stats. But again, it's a great GAME - who did it? Why did they do it? What is the connection between what happened in Tokyo and the breakout around the world. TSW is a challenging game but not a button masher. And that's the problem. Hard core players want to get in and get out... hit the level cap, get the great gear and then piss and moan about no content - my advice to them? Move along, this is not the game you are looking for - try Wildstar or ArcheAge - that is likely more your cup of tea. So, what's left? Depth of play, puzzles, cooperative play against world bosses, totally unique characters [take a look in Final Fantasy XIV - ALL the top cap toons in a preselected character class have EXACTLY the same skills and EXACTLY the same look - fill in the game of your choice and the results are the same] So what's missing? Two things come to mind - housing and transport - in- zone transport that is, Agartha is cool... but a 1932 Pontilator wood side for me and my krew to bomb around Egypt in would be cool - a horse drawn carriage in Transylvania, a taxi service in Kingsmouth and a place to hang trophies a la LotRO would be nice. So where's the fail? Inappropriate messaging IMO, building expectations around the combat [which is plentiful] instead of the quests, integrating search engines which then minimizes the intellectual aspect for content racers... everything considered, this is STILL the only game like it out there at all. If you come out of a point and twitch paradigm, you probably won't like it... the combat is the same as other places, [big deal], the angst over cash shop is [IMO] ill placed, who cares? It's mostly clothes [as opposed to DnD for example which, FORCES you, since you cant' craft them, to BUY health pots? Not too subtle a cash grab there....] Ya, I get some bennies for being a founder, big deal, they are useful in Kingsmouth and can easily be considered a two edged sword in that you can mask build defects [for a little while] with them. So, we come, at last, to, what I consider to be the elephant in the room, the skill wheel. This is the most difficult aspect to master [especially since the mobs are TOUGH in the game]... Instead of being a kid, you are treated as an adult, you make decisions and you live with them... you screw up? What happens IRL? You stay screwed up until you fix it, no mulligans, no take backs, no pity... If you don't like your build... then go back and do it again... but you KEEP the results of your messed up choice...and oh yes, you can *really* screw yourself into the ground. And that, I think, is the reason TSW gets such harsh reviews. It's an adult game about secret societies that are in competition to rule the world, played out against a backdrop of dimensional invasion. Your toon looks like a person who was going along in their life, going to work, taking out the trash, maybe hitting a bar now and again, just living and then got dragged into The Secret World... so you look like a person, not a fashion model [though it is possible to make incredibly good looking toons :+)] wearing jeans and t-shirt and basketball shoes, or knee high boots and maybe a long leather coat. No armor, none... but you gain skills and you can experiment with them and find EXACTLY the mode you want to play in - but of course, that suggests you WANT to take the time to master your toon. So say, you want to use a shotgun... you pick it up and start using it... and over time, you get better using it - and then you realize that you need something up close and personal; - a pistol? A sword? Some magical ability? maybe a heal? Whatever, its up to you but again, that's not "the way"... you want to be a dpser so you choose dual wield swords and get some intro armor... you go to the first hub and get your "kill 10 rats" quest... and at the end of the zone, there is a dungeon driven boss fight [that is likely a pug unless you have gone social]... rinse and repeat to end game. I can tell you right now... TSW is similar but at the end of the day, it aint that game
The year is 1946. The dust of WW II has barely begun to settle. In Argentina, a small group of renegade scientists, airlifted from Berlin just before the Soviet push to reduce the city, are gathered in a dimly lit laboratory. Hans Schmittendorf, stands near an ominously pulsing, blood red button...
Cut to TOKYO 2043...
Cut to Kingsmouth 1827
Cut to Lemuria BCE [before common era]
Cut to z8_GND_5296 where the gas beings indicate - "someone has pushed the button"
Meanwhile, in another part of town, you are being inducted into the Dragon...
I liked a lot about this game, but two things killed it for me: -
the fugly characters.
the clunky combat.
It's a shame that TSW didn't pick up the slack and looked a bit more at what GW2 does. TSW can learn a lot how you can do a MMORPG right, both in gameplay and storytelling. while not turning into a WoW clone.
Sush GW2 fanboi. For me GW2 is one of the worst games I've ever played. Honestly. I especially disliked that awful story written by 10 year olds to 7 years olds. TSW storytelling and quests are time better. I quit TSW quite a while ago because it became repetitive for me but I consider it to be one of the best theme parks around.
But you most probably created your account only to troll in TSW forum and hype up GW2.
I don't see how it's a failed attempt, sure it doesn't live up to everyone's standard but what game does? I play on 3 different server's and each one has a fairly active newbie zone. The combat and animation's aren't top notch, but I can live with those if the game has enough good qualities going for it.
Personally I like it for various reason's.
1. the setting isn't your typical high fantasy that's been done to death and beyond.
2. Character building, with all the skill's you can obtain, I can theory craft all I want. Remind's me of GW1 in this aspect. And no I don't run with flavor of the month.
3. The quest's often make you think, not all kill X creature's and come back.
I liked a lot about this game, but two things killed it for me: -
the fugly characters.
the clunky combat.
It's a shame that TSW didn't pick up the slack and looked a bit more at what GW2 does. TSW can learn a lot how you can do a MMORPG right, both in gameplay and storytelling. while not turning into a WoW clone.
Sush GW2 fanboi. For me GW2 is one of the worst games I've ever played. Honestly. I especially disliked that awful story written by 10 year olds to 7 years olds. TSW storytelling and quests are time better. I quit TSW quite a while ago because it became repetitive for me but I consider it to be one of the best theme parks around.
But you most probably created your account only to troll in TSW forum and hype up GW2.
I think I speak for lots of gamers out there, I like both games. Why is it we have the need to put games down? I play both and like them, like many other gamers.
Sush GW2 fanboi. For me GW2 is one of the worst games I've ever played. Honestly. I especially disliked that awful story written by 10 year olds to 7 years olds. TSW storytelling and quests are time better.
Tbh, I just referenced GW2 because as TSW (now) it is a B2P game that was released at the same time. Both games have their pros and cons, but overall GW2 has the better content earning it game of the year 2012.
Those are facts. I used several features of GW2 of what it did right to show where TSW could have done better. I could have named any other game for comparison as well. The first post includes argments that dont include the TSW comparison.
TSW storytelling is only good in the single 3rd person view. You take a myth, put it in the game with a NPC and thats it. The main storyquest is starting to go all over the place.
The same story can be seen in AO which I call "make some shit up". You can call GW2 childish on story, I wont disagree there, but it has a start, middle and end.
In GW2 based on your race on profession you get some variations and there is so much dialog in the game it truly feels you are on a journey. What do you get in TSW? You get gifts, theres flith, now go kill shit.
While TSW has only 3 major zones, GW has 5 major zones. In TSW the zones however also are limited where the 1st zone os for newer players, the 2nd zone for intermediate and the 3rd for advanced.
In GW2 each zone has several zones that accomodate every level range and if you arent that level range, you get auto-adjusted to that zone level so you can quest there anyway. That makes the amount of content at least 10x what TSW has to offer. For (at the time) 10x less the price.
That autoadjusting doesnt happen in GW2 PVP though. You get made level 80 (endgame). The dramafest that is PVP in TSW all roots in no matchmaking or balancing.
The fanbois on forum in the PVP section are just as adamant defending the warped faulty PVP design as some are in this thread. And wonder why nobody plays.
Add the Events and Worldbosses that you can do every 10 minutes, it shows off a world they are proud off (just look at all the vistas in every area).
I am in no means a GW2 fanboi, but its easy to take the game of the year and compare it with a game like TSW to show what makes this game a good but failed attempt.
Still worth trying out the game for the quests though.
Even with all its flaws, with the B2P and discount you can find if you google for digital keys you can get it as low as 6 dollars iirc. That's really worth this game. Dont pay 29,99 by buying directly from the Funcom site.
Well I agree about not buying from Funcom. That's an insult to injury move but I disagree about it being a bargain even at a low price. It's an MMO and the MM just aren't there lately. When you have people that feel they need to recruit from places like this forum just to have a decent size group to play with and the game has all sorts of user kluges to try and help people overcome the population problems, you have to ask SUCH A BARGAIN ?
Every MMORPG recruits from places like this forum. They recruit players from wherever players exist. Where else are they going to get players from?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
As for the story not really connecting....I agree, but Funcom's MMO's have always been more about atmosphere than some story with an end to it. The idea of a "Secret World" that become a part of and are enlisted to battle was there before you started and will be there after you end. It's not about "defeating" the secret world, it's your journey through it. Seeing the sights, the different crazy people and the different areas and how the shape the personalities of the people in it. People that have been there MUCH longer than you have and typically have a "been there, done that attitude". Until you can understand the atmosphere and exactly what you are being dropped into, you cannot appreciate what you are witnessing.
Imho, that is the brilliance of a Funcom MMO. Anarchy Online was the same way...you understood the factions, had a slight understanding of where each one stood and from there you built the story yourself. There was a story there, but you didn't need one...the atmosphere told you everything you needed to know.
Same with Age of Conan really...but that was story driven, although you didnt have to pay it mind to build a story out of the world.
Not many MMO's can offer that
I am comparing TSW with GW2 because they launched at the same time. I could compare TSW with other MMO's on other subjects.. As said before, I am just stating the obvious TSW wasnt the best game by far of 2012. GW2 was.
Gameplay and storytelling is what makes me (keep) play(ing) a game. No innovative quest design with puzzles or a decent technical skill system can save a game if the gameplay is repetitive, unresponsive and has no feedback. Overall quality of a game goes down as well if the story has no plot, no character development and no emotional context.
Offer no story? Destiny is the perfect example of good gameplay with no story. It didn't save them from some tough love. Same goes for TSW. You want to excuse Funcom for shitty storytelling because it's been like that in some old MMORPGs? It doesn't hold up. If you want to take your players on a journey it needs to bond on an emotional level.
That's not brilliance, thats lazy storywriting. They need to make an extra step then just copying myths and legends into their world, they need to link it with a proper journey the hero is on. Ever played The Wolf Among Us?
You can't compare GW2 to TSW, they are two entirely different games...GW2 barely checks off as an MMORPG...should be just an MMOG.
The storytelling style doesn't jell with you....that's fine, but that doesnt mean there isn't a story...from the onset of the announcement of TSW, it was known what you were playing and what the story was about. It wasn't about "star-crossed lovers" or "your final battle through impossible odds". It was that you were a normal person, no hero by any stretch, but that you were gifted enough to kill stuff...you are recruited by 1 of the 3 factions and you do work for them. That was the basis...the story was a series of short stories inside a game...did they intertwine? Rarely, but does my life intertwine with someone in Texas typically? (Im from PA) No, it never does.
I dont need "emotional bonding" in a game and consider it a played out and corny...but we have different opinions of it. Doesn't mean TSW doesnt have pretty in-depth storytelling to it....it just wasn't a James Cameron, cry-laugh-cry-triumph, typical blockbluster snoorefest.
I dont expect stories to be James Cameron blockbusters. They need to tell a tale. The easiest way to do that for a game is the trope of a journey which is obviously being used in TSW (guy gets powers, recruited and goes fight evil). It is what happens then on this journey that makes you care or not. This is where storytelling comes in.
You can use the same excuse for Destiny: "but the rest of the story was in the lore ingame and the links Bungie gave you could read when you logged into your user account.". You either tell a story or you are making shit up as you go. In TSW's case i am sure its not the latter, but its also not the first relating to the main lead/hero/player.
TSW just doesnt know where to go. Shall we do myths? Throw in a few nazis? But we also have Tokyo. And what about the conspiracy factions? I used The Wolf Among Us as an example where a story is told with the whole "myth is real" thing going on. It's just as dark and yet when it comes to narrative it outshines TSW.
Because it has a tale to tell. Something the Funcom writers clearly forgot making their MMO's.
I understand that that's how you operate, and Im all for it, but I don't think that Funcom ever had the intention to do that. Single player games work much better that way. Have thousands exist in the same world, not everyone gets to be the hero or gets the girl or dominates...we're all recruits in a very "X-Files" type of world....but the story is open to interpretation. Something that's more along the lines of what I like.
Also, I would hardly call it lazy to find every myth, legend, conspiracy etc. and throw it into little stories throughout your gaming experience. All the things you actually get to be introduced to in the game are pretty fascinating...Im no current history buff, so I actually learned about Jim Jones and People's Temple through this game. You don't usually get that oppurtunity in other games.
Making typical plot progressions and rounding out characters for a grand finale seems to me to be the more "lazy" approach. The stuff Funcom put in this game could have been fun for them to do, but it had to involve some level of tedium....I doubt any other game company could put out an MMO with so much historical data that is actually fun and interesting to learn about as well.
Understood. And all of the sidequests work perfectly in that thought. However the main storyquest has events happening and you meeting NPC's which aren't just a X-Files case. How many times can Anima be saved? You can't project that onto the idea that every player is a recruit for the 3 factions.
If Funcom wants to go that route, I would applaud them for doing so. Dealing with story in an MMORPG is something the gaming industry as a whole is struggling with it seems like, since like you say, it works better in a single player environment. However I don't think that's the case in TSW.
Players, especially in TSW, are a bit more mature then the average MMORPG player. I don't agree theyre necessarily smarter, but you dont need to hold their hand. Thus making distressing situations a bit closer to the "hero" doesnt seem too far fetcht for me. Again, just my opinion im spoiting.
I think TSW is a great game, but the OP is right, its not a game you will stay around for. It just dont have the staying power, once you have done the quest line, it is more or less over. Still worth trying out the game for the quests though.
Probably some of the best quests in the business.
Even with all its flaws, with the B2P and discount you can find if you google for digital keys you can get it as low as 6 dollars iirc. That's really worth this game. Dont pay 29,99 by buying directly from the Funcom site.
And this is another irritating point. Everything Funcom does seems done like a bunch of amateurs. Its infuriating. What does GW2 do? They know theyre dated. They push a different package out on the market.
Play GW2 for free for a week and then decide if you want to buy. The pricing has a limited 50% off and if you buy it, you get a suit of legendary newbie armor, XP boosters and whatnot. You can also opt for extras.
Even though its 50% off, youre still paying 20 bucks. How hard is it to throw in some digital shit that only can be used once or in the first stages of the game? Or Funcom is so arrogant they dont give a fuck.
The video they have on the main page of TSW is a low resolution promo clip while the game runs in the highest resolutions. Move the video section with the screenshots section. This is 2014.
Nobody gives a shit about screenshots anymore, everybody watches Youtube! It's not just the game that's riddled with facepalms. Even if they did viral ads and ARG's that are lightspeed ahead:
DO.. NOT.. FORGET.. THE.. BASICS!
Well I agree about not buying from Funcom. That's an insult to injury move but I disagree about it being a bargain even at a low price. It's an MMO and the MM just aren't there lately. When you have people that feel they need to recruit from places like this forum just to have a decent size group to play with and the game has all sorts of user kluges to try and help people overcome the population problems, you have to ask SUCH A BARGAIN ?
Seriously? you are going to keep going with this GW2 stuff? GW2 is one of the worst examples of an MMORPG in ages.
As for Funcom, Anarchy Online, Age of Conan and The Secret World are still talked about as great games to this day (great games to play now as well)....not sure how anyone comes to the thought that Funcom's games feels like they are made by ameteurs? did they all have poor launches...yes, but what game doesnt? WoW had an awful launch and it's first big update was even worse...
Being a GW2 fanboy = no street cred at all
I couldve used any other game for that matter, but GW2 with its B2P concept and released at the same date coming with an interesting offer for their dated game is just an example how you do things right.
That you can only read the "GW2" part without commenting on the argument makes you more a fanboy then I am. I prefer TSW over GW2 because of the mature tone myself, but I admit GW2 is the better game.
Then again, you did call TSW the best MMO in over 10 years, and GW2 utter rubbish. You didn't read about the reviews making GW2 best game of 2012 and didnt see so much players moving from TSW to GW2?
And I am not talking about the average "stupid" player like you want to call it. I remember Dulfy making an excellent site for TSW. Well, when she moved to GW2 she did exactly the same there, and its still in use.
FWIW
I know people who left TSW for GW2, can't say I know any going the other way. But that's small beans and subjective. GW2 was so successful they repeatedly had to throttle sales to make certain their infrastructure would support the numbers. Compare that with TSW which had such poor performance they no longer have a dedicated development team but one shared between Funcom's three MMOs.
I liked a lot about this game, but two things killed it for me: -
It's a shame that TSW didn't pick up the slack and looked a bit more at what GW2 does. TSW can learn a lot how you can do a MMORPG right, both in gameplay and storytelling. while not turning into a WoW clone.
Couldn't get over the ridiculous animations. I tried a few months back to get into it again, reinstalled and everything. The terrible animations were the same. I just couldn't. Not when there's Guild Wars 2 or any number of other games that I can play without those drawbacks.
These were issues in Beta, and with all the money and time they took they never seemed to make it a priority to fix.
TSW is a great game. No, it is not easy and no, it is not for everyone. The combat, it is said, is repetitive - agreed but then, combat is not the goal. The characters are ugly or so it it said, which is not true. However, if you want pneumatic boobs and anime pretty, this is not for you. TSW is a great game in a way few games are today and certainly no MMOs. Your quests are mystery - your tools are wit and savvy. That's a game changer there... the interface is standard - which is nice and the mobs are same-skinned through out all that changes is the stats. But again, it's a great GAME - who did it? Why did they do it? What is the connection between what happened in Tokyo and the breakout around the world. TSW is a challenging game but not a button masher. And that's the problem. Hard core players want to get in and get out... hit the level cap, get the great gear and then piss and moan about no content - my advice to them? Move along, this is not the game you are looking for - try Wildstar or ArcheAge - that is likely more your cup of tea. So, what's left? Depth of play, puzzles, cooperative play against world bosses, totally unique characters [take a look in Final Fantasy XIV - ALL the top cap toons in a preselected character class have EXACTLY the same skills and EXACTLY the same look - fill in the game of your choice and the results are the same] So what's missing? Two things come to mind - housing and transport - in- zone transport that is, Agartha is cool... but a 1932 Pontilator wood side for me and my krew to bomb around Egypt in would be cool - a horse drawn carriage in Transylvania, a taxi service in Kingsmouth and a place to hang trophies a la LotRO would be nice. So where's the fail? Inappropriate messaging IMO, building expectations around the combat [which is plentiful] instead of the quests, integrating search engines which then minimizes the intellectual aspect for content racers... everything considered, this is STILL the only game like it out there at all. If you come out of a point and twitch paradigm, you probably won't like it... the combat is the same as other places, [big deal], the angst over cash shop is [IMO] ill placed, who cares? It's mostly clothes [as opposed to DnD for example which, FORCES you, since you cant' craft them, to BUY health pots? Not too subtle a cash grab there....] Ya, I get some bennies for being a founder, big deal, they are useful in Kingsmouth and can easily be considered a two edged sword in that you can mask build defects [for a little while] with them. So, we come, at last, to, what I consider to be the elephant in the room, the skill wheel. This is the most difficult aspect to master [especially since the mobs are TOUGH in the game]... Instead of being a kid, you are treated as an adult, you make decisions and you live with them... you screw up? What happens IRL? You stay screwed up until you fix it, no mulligans, no take backs, no pity... If you don't like your build... then go back and do it again... but you KEEP the results of your messed up choice...and oh yes, you can *really* screw yourself into the ground. And that, I think, is the reason TSW gets such harsh reviews. It's an adult game about secret societies that are in competition to rule the world, played out against a backdrop of dimensional invasion. Your toon looks like a person who was going along in their life, going to work, taking out the trash, maybe hitting a bar now and again, just living and then got dragged into The Secret World... so you look like a person, not a fashion model [though it is possible to make incredibly good looking toons :+)] wearing jeans and t-shirt and basketball shoes, or knee high boots and maybe a long leather coat. No armor, none... but you gain skills and you can experiment with them and find EXACTLY the mode you want to play in - but of course, that suggests you WANT to take the time to master your toon. So say, you want to use a shotgun... you pick it up and start using it... and over time, you get better using it - and then you realize that you need something up close and personal; - a pistol? A sword? Some magical ability? maybe a heal? Whatever, its up to you but again, that's not "the way"... you want to be a dpser so you choose dual wield swords and get some intro armor... you go to the first hub and get your "kill 10 rats" quest... and at the end of the zone, there is a dungeon driven boss fight [that is likely a pug unless you have gone social]... rinse and repeat to end game. I can tell you right now... TSW is similar but at the end of the day, it aint that game
Whyspre
The year is 1946. The dust of WW II has barely begun to settle. In Argentina, a small group of renegade scientists, airlifted from Berlin just before the Soviet push to reduce the city, are gathered in a dimly lit laboratory. Hans Schmittendorf, stands near an ominously pulsing, blood red button...
Cut to TOKYO 2043...
Cut to Kingsmouth 1827
Cut to Lemuria BCE [before common era]
Cut to z8_GND_5296 where the gas beings indicate - "someone has pushed the button"
Meanwhile, in another part of town, you are being inducted into the Dragon...
Duration is illusion
Ewige Blumenkraft!
Hail Eris
Whyspre
Sush GW2 fanboi. For me GW2 is one of the worst games I've ever played. Honestly. I especially disliked that awful story written by 10 year olds to 7 years olds. TSW storytelling and quests are time better. I quit TSW quite a while ago because it became repetitive for me but I consider it to be one of the best theme parks around.
But you most probably created your account only to troll in TSW forum and hype up GW2.
I don't see how it's a failed attempt, sure it doesn't live up to everyone's standard but what game does? I play on 3 different server's and each one has a fairly active newbie zone. The combat and animation's aren't top notch, but I can live with those if the game has enough good qualities going for it.
Personally I like it for various reason's.
1. the setting isn't your typical high fantasy that's been done to death and beyond.
2. Character building, with all the skill's you can obtain, I can theory craft all I want. Remind's me of GW1 in this aspect. And no I don't run with flavor of the month.
3. The quest's often make you think, not all kill X creature's and come back.
4. For me it's just a really fun game.
I think I speak for lots of gamers out there, I like both games. Why is it we have the need to put games down? I play both and like them, like many other gamers.
Tbh, I just referenced GW2 because as TSW (now) it is a B2P game that was released at the same time. Both games have their pros and cons, but overall GW2 has the better content earning it game of the year 2012.
Those are facts. I used several features of GW2 of what it did right to show where TSW could have done better. I could have named any other game for comparison as well. The first post includes argments that dont include the TSW comparison.
TSW storytelling is only good in the single 3rd person view. You take a myth, put it in the game with a NPC and thats it. The main storyquest is starting to go all over the place.
The same story can be seen in AO which I call "make some shit up". You can call GW2 childish on story, I wont disagree there, but it has a start, middle and end.
In GW2 based on your race on profession you get some variations and there is so much dialog in the game it truly feels you are on a journey. What do you get in TSW? You get gifts, theres flith, now go kill shit.
While TSW has only 3 major zones, GW has 5 major zones. In TSW the zones however also are limited where the 1st zone os for newer players, the 2nd zone for intermediate and the 3rd for advanced.
In GW2 each zone has several zones that accomodate every level range and if you arent that level range, you get auto-adjusted to that zone level so you can quest there anyway. That makes the amount of content at least 10x what TSW has to offer. For (at the time) 10x less the price.
That autoadjusting doesnt happen in GW2 PVP though. You get made level 80 (endgame). The dramafest that is PVP in TSW all roots in no matchmaking or balancing.
The fanbois on forum in the PVP section are just as adamant defending the warped faulty PVP design as some are in this thread. And wonder why nobody plays.
Add the Events and Worldbosses that you can do every 10 minutes, it shows off a world they are proud off (just look at all the vistas in every area).
I am in no means a GW2 fanboi, but its easy to take the game of the year and compare it with a game like TSW to show what makes this game a good but failed attempt.
Every MMORPG recruits from places like this forum. They recruit players from wherever players exist. Where else are they going to get players from?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.