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$ I hope its Pay to Win $!!! woot!

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  • Relentles373Relentles373 Member Posts: 2

    Proof of 1 guy killing groups  http://youtu.be/dya_C3GQgaE?list=UUtCeoyqfWKSDUyLyItHKOCA

    But hey, its impossible...

  • laokokolaokoko Member UncommonPosts: 2,004
    Originally posted by Relentles373

    Proof of 1 guy killing groups  http://youtu.be/dya_C3GQgaE?list=UUtCeoyqfWKSDUyLyItHKOCA

    But hey, its impossible...

    The guy can barely keep up 1vs5.

    For a real pay2win games, the guy should be able to take on zerg of 20-30.

  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,689
    Originally posted by laokoko
    Originally posted by Relentles373

    Proof of 1 guy killing groups  http://youtu.be/dya_C3GQgaE?list=UUtCeoyqfWKSDUyLyItHKOCA

    But hey, its impossible...

    The guy can barely keep up 1vs5.

    For a real pay2win games, the guy should be able to take on zerg of 20-30.

    Can't tell if sarcastic or serious.

     

    If you're serious, then for your information (or, if you're sarcastic, then for everyone else's information), whales tend to group up together and travel in packs.  After all, in addition to the practicality of teaming up with other powerful players, they share a common bond with each other in that they're all willing to spend a ton on a game (I should know, since I'm a whale myself sometimes.  It just feels nice hanging around others as crazy as you are).

     

    So even if one whale can't take on a zerg of 20-30, five whales should handle that zerg quite easily.

     

    There's a reason why the Korean and Russian versions of the game are doing so poorly.  It only takes a few powerful people to ruin the game for six times their number.

     

    As an aside, by the way, if people say "Well, powerful people would ruin the game for others anyways even without pay-to-win", that's basically the equivalent of saying "Well, archeage sucks even without pay-to-win".  Think about it.  Welcome to open-world PVP in a gear-based game.

  • KonfessKonfess Member RarePosts: 1,667
    Originally posted by TiamatRoar
    Originally posted by Pepeq
    If you have to keep paying to win, you're not winning, you're just paying.
    [edit for clarity]

     

    Hence why "having to keep paying to win" is exactly what people mean when they say Pay-To-Win, and thus why they hate it.

     

    [edit for clarity]

    I say false.  P2W is all about have to pay vs not paying at all (P4F).  The people who use the term P2W are complaining that they are expected to pay anything at all for their play time.  They use the excuse of whales spending hundreds of thousands, but what they are really complaining about is the 1.50 (or however much the least payment is) a week they feel forced to spend to enjoy the game fully.

     

    The P2W argument has nothing to do with whales and everything to do with their desire to Play For Free (P4F).

     

    A guild of 10 subscribers will organize and craft BIS armour sets, they will craft castles, trade ships, and war ships.  It will take time and effort.

    If a group of P4F player worked together (HAHA), they could possibly craft BIS or more likely buy it with in game coin. It will take even longer and more effort.  But more likely they will take their medical card to the dispensary to burn their excess cash.

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
    Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
    It costs money to play.  Therefore P2W.

  • KonfessKonfess Member RarePosts: 1,667
    Originally posted by Relentles373

    Proof of 1 guy killing groups  http://youtu.be/dya_C3GQgaE?list=UUtCeoyqfWKSDUyLyItHKOCA

    But hey, its impossible...

    That is more about the build, anyone can do it.  Even the P4F.

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
    Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
    It costs money to play.  Therefore P2W.

  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,689
    Originally posted by Konfess
    Originally posted by TiamatRoar
    Originally posted by Pepeq
    If you have to keep paying to win, you're not winning, you're just paying.
    [edit for clarity]

     

    Hence why "having to keep paying to win" is exactly what people mean when they say Pay-To-Win, and thus why they hate it.

     

    [edit for clarity]

    I say false.  P2W is all about have to pay vs not paying at all (P4F).  The people who use the term P2W are complaining that they are expected to pay anything at all for their play time.  

    You've got that wrong.  Most of the people complaining are founders  (and thus already paid $150 so far) and said they would gladly have continued to be patrons if this P2W cash shop change didn't happen.  Honestly, at this point you're just imagining straw men to suit your argument and completely ignoring the reality of the situation regarding WHO is actually complaining about this.

  • NevulusNevulus Member UncommonPosts: 1,288
    Originally posted by TiamatRoar

    You've got that wrong.  Most of the people complaining are founders  (and thus already paid $150 so far) and said they would gladly have continued to be patrons if this P2W cash shop change didn't happen.  

    Wow, you're psychic? You actually know who is a founder and not a founder by their mmorpg.com profiles? Show me that trick. I'd like to learn your secret powers because I don't think it's actually possible to tell who paid $150 for founders just by text on a screen.

  • mayankingmayanking Member UncommonPosts: 162
    last time i played a heavy p2w game it took me a year to catch up with whales and eventualy dominate them in Pvp. evenutally cash shop gave them items that they had to spend maybe 500 a month for a 40-45 percent chance at beating me each pvp event.... made them spend 3-4k just for me and i spent a good 20bucks.. No thx on heavy p2w looked like a good game to i will still try it. 
  • greatskysgreatskys Member UncommonPosts: 451

    I think its more pay a subscription to win than anything . You will be able to do things a lot more quicky if you do . Theoretically buying labour points from the cash shop may also add to the pay to win element but quite frankly I don't think huge numbers of subscribers will do this because their labour points will get replenished even when they are off line so they should have plenty .

    Given I intend to subscribe I am not concerned about it . Its a great game and the mmo I have been waiting for since vanilla WoW . Its taken a decade but I finally have something I'm enjoying as much as that .

  • GoldenArrowGoldenArrow Member UncommonPosts: 1,186

    If Trion opened subscription only servers without cash shop I'd play this game.

    But I'll just do the smart thing and walk away from this game.

     

    step

    step

    step...

  • greatskysgreatskys Member UncommonPosts: 451
    Originally posted by rutaq

    Pay to Win is subjective and means different things to different players.

     

    The simple facts are:

     

    Labor Points are a core system in ArcheAge that control how much you can do:

    • the amount of things you can Craft
    • the amount of XP you can gain through crafting
    • the amount of Land you can own
    • the amount of loot you can gain (coin purses)

     

    The current issue is that for a monthly subscriber 90% of available Labor points per day can only come through the Cash shop.

    If you stay logged into the game for an entire day you character will accumulate about 2500 Labor points and can buy an additional 36000 through the cash shop.    

     

    So what does that mean ....

    • For cash you can craft almost 10x more than a regular subscriber in a single day.   You can corner the market on crafted goods and sell them at a lower price and still make a huge profit due to your 10X inventory.
    • For cash you can level your character to 50th level 10x faster than a regular subscriber through the use of your Labor points.
    • For cash you can reach the Highest tiers of Mastery in Crafting 10x faster than a regular subscriber
    • For cash you can lock down 10x the amount of land/real estate/property property compared to a regular.   This is especially concerning given the very limited amounts of area to build a House / Farm in the game world.
    • For cash you can open 10x more loot drops hoping for rare items drops / crystals.

     

    Nobody knows exactly what the impact will be to the game due to the cash shop but we can safely say there will be an impact to regular subscribers since the Daily Max regen limit of 2500 usable Labor points doesn't apply to anyone that wants to pay more than $ 15 / month.

    If you plan to compete against other players on something that use Labor points then you better have deep pockets.

     

     

    If you subscribe I think you will find your Labour points regenerate when you are offline as well so you dont have to be logged in as you suggest to get them .

    http://www.archeagegame.com/en/news/2014/06/archeage-patron-program-apex/

    I do see your point though that the 1100 deficit may make theoretically mean people who are willing to buy that number of points per day will could get the top gear faster but in I don't know how practical that will be in reality given their is a level cap of 5000 labour points you can have at any one time .

    I suspect it wont make a lot of difference to the average player that subscribes mind you if you don't subscribe it probably will take you longer to achieve what a subscriber does .

  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,689
    Originally posted by Nevulus
    Originally posted by TiamatRoar

    You've got that wrong.  Most of the people complaining are founders  (and thus already paid $150 so far) and said they would gladly have continued to be patrons if this P2W cash shop change didn't happen.  

    Wow, you're psychic? You actually know who is a founder and not a founder by their mmorpg.com profiles? Show me that trick. I'd like to learn your secret powers because I don't think it's actually possible to tell who paid $150 for founders just by text on a screen.

    Wow, you're psychic instead?  OMGOSH.  You somehow magically know that they are not founders despite how they say they are!

     

    See, you're straw-manning, again.

  • stromp45stromp45 Member UncommonPosts: 159
    Have you guys pvp in archage really its really not about the gear it will help but its all about the cc and piggybacking with a few friends ive seen it meny times where a few lv 35 to 36 peeps kill the crap out of a lv 50 easily with good gear just keep stunning or fearing the 50 and shot or nuke him to death so those saying gear gear gear ether havent played aa or havent got high engh to know what your talking about.
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857
    Originally posted by mayanking
    last time i played a heavy p2w game it took me a year to catch up with whales and eventualy dominate them in Pvp. evenutally cash shop gave them items that they had to spend maybe 500 a month for a 40-45 percent chance at beating me each pvp event.... made them spend 3-4k just for me and i spent a good 20bucks.. No thx on heavy p2w looked like a good game to i will still try it. 

    LOL

  • Relentles373Relentles373 Member Posts: 2
    Originally posted by Konfess
    Originally posted by Relentles373

    Proof of 1 guy killing groups  http://youtu.be/dya_C3GQgaE?list=UUtCeoyqfWKSDUyLyItHKOCA

    But hey, its impossible...

    That is more about the build, anyone can do it.  Even the P4F.

    You have never touched this game did you ?

  • DeathageDeathage Member CommonPosts: 146
    Originally posted by Relentles373

    Proof of 1 guy killing groups  http://youtu.be/dya_C3GQgaE?list=UUtCeoyqfWKSDUyLyItHKOCA

    But hey, its impossible...

    Aside from any P2W discussion or gear inequality (yes many of the people he faced had far worse gear. One person in the beginning had gear far below his level, which would be easy to upgrade) you'll notice that the other plays don't really do a whole hell of a lot to play against him. By that I mean that there is very little CC'ing being done, and sometimes enemy players will go seconds without attacking him in any way, all while he is facerolling their ally. 

     

    This video is not indicative of players that are seriously making an attempt to PVP, its a highlight reel video of the player melting noobs faces. Take a look at some arena videos or other open-world PVP videos even, there are encounters where relatively undergeared players taking out enemies with 5k... 8k more HP. Not saying this game wont have problems with whales, just saying this video is not indicative of that.

     

    Edit: I found one such video the other day, if I can find it on Youtube I'll edit this post again

  • AlalalaAlalala Member UncommonPosts: 314
    Originally posted by rutaq

    Pay to Win is subjective and means different things to different players.

     

    The simple facts are:

     

    Labor Points are a core system in ArcheAge that control how much you can do:

    • the amount of things you can Craft
    • the amount of XP you can gain through crafting
    • the amount of Land you can own
    • the amount of loot you can gain (coin purses)

     

    The current issue is that for a monthly subscriber 90% of available Labor points per day can only come through the Cash shop.

    If you stay logged into the game for an entire day you character will accumulate about 2500 Labor points and can buy an additional 36000 through the cash shop.    

     

    So what does that mean ....

    • For cash you can craft almost 10x more than a regular subscriber in a single day.   You can corner the market on crafted goods and sell them at a lower price and still make a huge profit due to your 10X inventory.
    • For cash you can level your character to 50th level 10x faster than a regular subscriber through the use of your Labor points.
    • For cash you can reach the Highest tiers of Mastery in Crafting 10x faster than a regular subscriber
    • For cash you can lock down 10x the amount of land/real estate/property property compared to a regular.   This is especially concerning given the very limited amounts of area to build a House / Farm in the game world.
    • For cash you can open 10x more loot drops hoping for rare items drops / crystals.

     

    Nobody knows exactly what the impact will be to the game due to the cash shop but we can safely say there will be an impact to regular subscribers since the Daily Max regen limit of 2500 usable Labor points doesn't apply to anyone that wants to pay more than $ 15 / month.

    If you plan to compete against other players on something that use Labor points then you better have deep pockets.

     

     

     

    Wow, if true, that sucks.

    Well, yet another 2014 over-hyped MMO bites the dust. (ESO, WS, .... )

     

This discussion has been closed.