ArcheAge if you paid to win - -

[Deleted User]

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Gdemami

Off numbers.

The chances aren't really known.
The prices are basically made up as one cannot estimate how will market evolve.

However, this is no news. AA is a typical asian MMO with typical asian, heavy rng and heavy grind based crafting.

I have posted recently that crafting is basically pointless as high/top end gear requires way too much effort and it that case raid gear is much better choice for anyone.

Typical cheap asian game with poor design.

SpottyGekko

Hmmm...

 

So what this thread really "proves" is that trying to "Pay-2-Win" is a hopeless strategy unless you have 10's of thousands to spend ?

 

If it's THAT expensive to have the best gear, there's no need to worry about it, because it will be so rare as to be irrelevant. 

angerbeaver

Of course there is always going to be that one F2P that gets it first time around. Won't change my life in any way.

GeezerGamer

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Hmmm...

 

So what this thread really "proves" is that trying to "Pay-2-Win" is a hopeless strategy unless you have 10's of thousands to spend ?

 

If it's THAT expensive to have the best gear, there's no need to worry about it, because it will be so rare as to be irrelevant. 

IT's still relative. That is not some gated area where everyone else is all on the same field. P2W is a ladder. You don't have to have the best, just better than most. And if all it takes is a few hundred, why spend thousands?

rodarin

Umm guys who worry about gear should really know just how little upgrades effect the stats in AA. From worst to bet is less than 10 points in each stat. From very good (easy to get) to best its 1 or 2 in key stats.

 

gear isnt the end all be all in AA, even though people try to make it out to be and talk about its importance al the time. Its a WOW mentality that carries over into every game around. Forcing developers to adhere to it. But in AA the differences are so minuscule between gear stages theyre not worth talking about. 1 or 2 points per stat per piece will add up but not nearly enough to make the effort worth it.

saurus123

Originally posted by rodarin

Umm guys who worry about gear should really know just how little upgrades effect the stats in AA. From worst to bet is less than 10 points in each stat. From very good (easy to get) to best its 1 or 2 in key stats.

 

gear isnt the end all be all in AA, even though people try to make it out to be and talk about its importance al the time. Its a WOW mentality that carries over into every game around. Forcing developers to adhere to it. But in AA the differences are so minuscule between gear stages theyre not worth talking about. 1 or 2 points per stat per piece will add up but not nearly enough to make the effort worth it.

then a 1 guy come and smash your party

gear is the most important stuff in AA if you still didnt know that

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Gdemami

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Originally posted by rodarin
Umm guys who worry about gear should really know just how little upgrades effect the stats in AA. From worst to bet is less than 10 points in each stat. From very good (easy to get) to best its 1 or 2 in key stats. gear isnt the end all be all in AA, even though people try to make it out to be and talk about its importance al the time. Its a WOW mentality that carries over into every game around. Forcing developers to adhere to it. But in AA the differences are so minuscule between gear stages theyre not worth talking about. 1 or 2 points per stat per piece will add up but not nearly enough to make the effort worth it.

---

Hahah, you better play the game before you make such claims :-P

zzax

Originally posted by angerbeaver

Of course there is always going to be that one P2W that gets it first time around. Won't change my life in any way.

Till he decides to gank you over and over. It will then change your life and your opinion by 180.

Dreamo84

You have way too much free time lol. Just play the dang game :-p

DamonVile

It sounds more like pay to make others lose. You don't win anything with the money you spend but the act of spending it sure seems to matter to people who wont or can't.

Zeddakis

Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

Math behind the Cash Shop[You Should read]

 

<blockquote restore="" "="">Hi guys just wanted to provide same math for some cash shop items.

Starting with the Regrade Charms:

- So regrading an item has a chance of about 30% to be successful
( http://archeaegis.com/a-recap-on-regrading/ )
regrade charms (+50%, +75%, +100%) affect this chance so basically you are raising your chance to regrade an item from 30% to 45%/52,5%/60%.
Ok let's say we want to regrade an item at level 50 from green to the mythic(highest grade)
and we can't use Regrade charms, what are our chances? let the math begin:

from Grand(Green) to rare(blue) 30 % Chance
Grand to arcane 9 % Chance (30% * 30%)
Grand to heroic 2.7 % (9% * 30%)
Grand to unique 0.81 % (2,7% * 30 %)
Grand to Celestial 0.243 % (..)
Grand to Divine 0.0729 % (..)
Grand to Epic 0.02187 % (..)
Grand to Legendary 0.006561 % (..)
Grand to Mythic 0.0019683 % (..)

so a person, not using regrade charms has a chance of 0.0019683% to get to mythic with their item, never breaking or failing.
to be succesfull this person needs 50,805.26(!!!) Items.(if not breaking/downgrading) to regrade ONE item to the highest tier(grade).

now the person, using regrade charms:
(from arcane to heroic und heroic to unique we will use the +75% charm for the others we have to use the +50% charms)

Grand to rare(blue) 45 % Chance ( 30% + 50% charm = 45% Chance)
Grand to arcane 20,25 % Chance. (45% * (30% + 50%) = 20.25 %)
Grand to heroic 10.631 % (20.25 % * (30%+75%) = 10.631 %)
Grand to unique 5.581275 % (10.631% * (30%+75%) = 5.581275 %)
Grand to Celestial 2.51157375 % (5.581275 * (30+50%) = 2.51157375 %)
Grand to Divine 1.1302081875 % (2.51157375 % * (30+50%) = 1.1302081875 %)
Grand to Epic 0.508593684375 % (..)
Grand to Legendary 0.22886715796875 % (..)
Grand to Mythic 0.1029902210859375 % (..)

so, the person, using the regrade charms has a chance of 0.1029902210859375% to get to mythic with their item, never breaking or failing.
to be successful this person needs 970.96(!!!) Items.(if not breaking/downgrading) to regrade ONE item to the highest tier(grade).

let's take now archeum boxes. these boxes will not only provide you with archeum but also have a chance to drop a regrade charm with +100% chance. so the math for this is:

Grand to rare(blue) 60 % Chance ( 30% + 100% charm= 60% Chance)
Grand to arcane 36 % Chance. (60% * (30% + 100%) = 36 %)
Grand to heroic 21.6 % (36 % * (30%+100%) = 21.6 %)
Grand to unique 12.96 % (21.6% * (30%+100%) = 12.96 %)
Grand to Celestial 7.776 % (12.96% * (30+100%) = 7.776 %)
Grand to Divine 4.6656% (7.776 % * (30+100%) = 4.6656 %)
Grand to Epic 2.79936 % (..)
Grand to Legendary 1.679616 % (..)
Grand to Mythic 1.0077696 % (..)

so, the person, using the regrade charms through archeum boxes has a chance of 1.0077696 % to get to mythic with their item, never breaking or failing.
to be successful this person needs 99.23(!!!) Items.(if not breaking/downgrading) to regrade ONE item to the highest tier(grade).

now compare these numbers:
a patron/f2p not using cash shop: has to regrade an item 50,805 times to be successful(not counting it that an item can break or downgraded!)
a person just using basic regrade charms: has to regrade an item 970.96 times to be successful(not counting it that an item can break or downgraded!)
a person using archeum boxes: has to regrade an item 99.23 times to be successful(not counting it that an item can break or downgraded!)

let's say an average regrade attempt costs 50 gold(lower at lower tier higher at higher tier) totally ignoring break chance or downgrad chance(which would just make this picture even more diabollic)

For one Mythic Item the first player has to pay 2,540,263 gold
the second person has to pay 48,548 gold
the third person has to pay 4,961.45 gold

The Archeum Boxes

- (Affecting Regrade Charms)
So as mentioned above, archeum boxes not only give you archeum but also have a chance to drop the +100% regrade charms. 2 types of +100% regrade charms, one with +100% to all tiers and one with +100% to unique or below. the second one has a 8% drop chance the other a 1% drop chance(taking this numbers http://www.reddit.com/r/archeage/com...m_chest_stats/ 

so for 490 credits you get a 8% chance and a 1%chance (you are paying 2.04€ for 490 credits[taking the best deal tier with 24050 credits for 100€, because this is the tier guys will go for, who will drop a lot of money])
for 99.23 attempts(see above) you have to use 5 out of 9 regrades the 8% version(from grand to unique version) and 4 out of 9 regrades the 1% version (celestial up to legendary) as the chance for the second one is lower we will continue to calculate with it(the other one will drop enough if we only go for the 1% version)

ok. let's go a step deeper:
out of the 99.23 attempts we have to use the "Superior Red Regrade Charm(1% version)" 44,44%
so we need 44,10 Superior Red Regrade charms.
for these 44,10 charms we have to open 4410 archeum boxes.
4410 boxes = 8,996.4 €
Ok with 8,996.4 € spend you have enough regrade charms to craft your way up to a mythic item.
if you opened 4410 boxes you also got enough "trash" loot from them to sell them on ah an get money.

- (The Gold)
so with 4410 opened boxes you also got 352.8 red charms(8% version) but you only need 55,13 of them, so you sell them on the auction house, let's say for 20gold each(lowest on the market atm 27,50gold, server Shatigon) 
= 297.67 * 27,50 = 8,185.92 gold 
but that's not all these boxes have more stuff which can be sold on the auction house
(check the link above for more details)
let's say you can make additional 3 gold with every box (and this is a very low price)
4410 * 3 gold = 13,230.00 gold

total gold = 21.415,92 
but you only need 4.961,5 gold for the regrade process itself.
16.454,42 gold left.
you need 99.23 regrade scrolls.
let's say one regrade scroll is selling for 60gold(atm 50gold at the auction house, shatigon)
99,23 * 60 = 5,953.8 gold
= 10,500.62 gold left.
so now you have money for the regrade process, all needed regrade charms and regrade scroll.
so what is missing? ----> the item.
with 10,500.62 gold left. you can either go shopping in the auction house, ask a crafter, or simple buy materials and start crafting yourself.
btw these 10,500.62 gold will also help if your item get's downgraded or breaks(not in this calculation)

The Labor Potions

Labor pots before the patch would give you 1000 labor every 12h for every char you have (lvl 15+)
now, they give you 1000 labor every 4 hours for every char lvl 15 or higher.
if you buy additional char slots(to have up to 6 slots total) you can have 36.000 additional labor a day.

(How does it affect the crafting)
Archeage Crafting is classified in tiers, so if you want to craft the best gear or weapon you have to spend 50.000(atm) labor in this profession.
So if someone wants to be a top crafter he can become one VERY quickly!

remember: the higher you get in crafting the lower your labor costs become.
and as you can transform labor directly to gold(you basically can't earn money without investing labor), this high tier crafter will be able to always undercut the lower tier crafter.

(The Gold)
Labor potions are also the top demand item from the cash shop, and you will always find someone who will buy it(to the right price)
let's say you can sell labor potions for 7.5 gold each on the auction house (atm 10 gold shatigon)
150 credits = 7.5 gold
= 7.5 gold = 0.6237 €

let's take the guy from above again.
let's say he was VERY unlucky and the 10,500.62 gold were not enough to buy the materials he needed or he was VERY unlucky, and the items kept breaking...
let's say he needs another 30.000 gold. what would it cost?
30.000 gold / 7,5 gold = 4.000 * 0,6237 € = 2.494,8 €

Now finally: with 11.491,20 € spend he has his mythic item and he should have enough money left to throw a big Ingame party, celebrating the serverwide message of his success.

What would it cost to upgrade a full set?(full set armor and 2h weapon)
8 * 11.491,20 = 91.929,06 € (as you have seen above we have a VERY, VERY unlucky person here. so the normal whale should be good with 55.000 to 70.000 € for full set.

The Item grades

On top of ArcheAges heavy rng crafting system, we also got tiers for the items (green, blue, yellow, orange item...)
But what is the difference between them?
let's take this item for example: http://archeagedatabase.net/us/item/31399/
in the grand version(green) it has +467 magic attack in the heroic version +534 magic attack, and in the highest version(mythic) it has +890 magic Attack!
so the strength of the items from grand to unique gets bigger but that increase is ok, the real issue is that from celestial the items get a HUGE increase in every tier.
you ever fought a guy in heroic gear with green or blue gear?
well think about fighting this guy totally naked and 5 level lower, that's nearly how it is to fight someone in a full mythic set if you only have the same tier level in green or blue.

So the problem is....?

- The problem right now is not just ONE item, it is how all above mentioned items work and affect each other.
People(Whales) will be able to bypass the RNG system and to have a HUGE advantage against normal patron player, or generally speaking to everyone not spending huge amounts of $$$
A normal player will NEVER have a BiS item.

But Everyone can buy all that mentioned stuff through AH!

sure, but look at the numbers above, and tell me who will get 2.540.263 gold and that's just for the regrade process, not counting in: materials and the regrade scrolls and items needed....

We have to say it right away, it is impossible for a normal patron to get what a whale will get. it is simple impossible!

No one is going to spend that much money!

really? maybe we will not see many guys doing this, but i'm sure, that one two or three whales with that big amount of money, will do. and even if not, there will be enough players spending hundreds of dollars a month, this players will get a huge advantage(not as big as mentioned above, but still HUGE)

Solution?

- Remove the Regrade Charms from the Cash Shop and from Archeum Boxes and NEVER bring them Back.
- Remove Archeum Boxes OR raise the amount of gained archeum through coin purses(generally playing the game)
- Remove Labor Potions OR make the cooldown 24h
( you said you can't change the cd to be accountwide, right  )

What i'm going to do:

Not spend a single € in the cash shop, i have 60 days of patron, and im not sure if i prolong my patron status after this 60 days.

Edit: found an miscalculation, should be good now. result is even worse

 

 

WOW! I guess I would rather use my limited time to play the game than do all that math. I never really enjoyed math that much. I guess that is why I play video games in my spare time instead of doing math about the odds in video games. 

Callidor

Im with Zed, 3 hours ago I started to read that math, a few minutes ago I woke up.

Dreamo84

I find video games are more fun when you don't turn it into a job. That's just me though,

DrunkWolf

This is why i never play a PvP game with a cash shop. I did it once before and i watched people spend thousands in a week just to get the best gear and potions for pvping. it was way to irritating getting stomped not by good players but players who just spend a ton of cash.

dont want to be frusterated by it? do like me, avoid playing it.

LazyDazed