Originally posted by AxxarJoe likes to make thorough reviews, so he makes sure to play the games he reviews extensively and think things through before he puts something out there.
Well this time he didn't and just jumped on the hype wagon to bash Destiny, copying others, instead of doing Research on his own.I usually like "most" of his reviews, but he makes a bit of a fool of himself with this one, to spread the exact same misinformation others have been spreading. Like the whole journalistic debacle around the $500 million development cost!This has been debunked so many times now and yet he just copies and spread this misinformation further. /shrug
If you watch the review, you can see that he is commenting on his own gameplay experience. I am not sure how you 'debunk' that, or how this is misinformation (you can see it in the video clips). As for the $500M cost... well that is Activision's marketing, not his. If you dont like it, talk to the people that promoted it.
Activision nor Bungie have ever disclosed Development cost! Ever!
The $500 million figure was an official statement from Activision earlier this year as "INVESTMENT" in the entire Destiny franchise for coming 10 years! It's an entirely New Budget that has nothing to do with the production of Destiny!
All that has been found through a investor document a long time ago, is that Bungie got a $140 million Development Budget two and half years ago!
That is what they have spend on the game. Which is $60 million less than that turd of a game called CoD:MW2.
So With $60 million less spend than CoD:MW2 and only two and half year Production time (creating a brandnew engine and franchise in process) it's actually impressive what they have delivered.
Destiny is a highly polished game and I am enjoying it, together with many others. That is all that matters to me.
I mean... when was the last time you have played an entirely bugfree game? I haven't run into a single bug or issue. Except the ocassional server disconnect when in The Tower, due to popularity and server overload.
Originally posted by AxxarJoe likes to make thorough reviews, so he makes sure to play the games he reviews extensively and think things through before he puts something out there.
Well this time he didn't and just jumped on the hype wagon to bash Destiny, copying others, instead of doing Research on his own.I usually like "most" of his reviews, but he makes a bit of a fool of himself with this one, to spread the exact same misinformation others have been spreading. Like the whole journalistic debacle around the $500 million development cost!This has been debunked so many times now and yet he just copies and spread this misinformation further. /shrug
If you watch the review, you can see that he is commenting on his own gameplay experience. I am not sure how you 'debunk' that, or how this is misinformation (you can see it in the video clips). As for the $500M cost... well that is Activision's marketing, not his. If you dont like it, talk to the people that promoted it.
Activision nor Bungie have ever disclosed Development cost! Ever!
The $500 million figure was an official statement from Activision earlier this year as "INVESTMENT" in the entire Destiny franchise for coming 10 years! It's an entirely New Budget that has nothing to do with the production of Destiny!
All that has been found through a investor document a long time ago, is that Bungie got a $140 million Development Budget two and half years ago!
That is what they have spend on the game. Which is $60 million less than that turd of a game called CoD:MW2.
So With $60 million less spend than CoD:MW2 and only two and half year Production time (creating a brandnew engine and franchise in process) it's actually impressive what they have delivered.
Destiny is a highly polished game and I am enjoying it, together with many others. That is all that matters to me.
As you have clearly shown, Activision has promoted the $500M figure. I am sorry that you dont like it when the press quotes this... but the reference is clear. You have provided an old (2010), unofficial reference and are trying to use it to dispute the current, official figure presented by the publisher. I am sorry, but this isnt reliable.. and you cant expect the press to ignore the official statements, and use an old, inaccurate leak, as the source instead.
As for your experience.. well it in no way detracts from the Angry Joe reviwe. He is clear about WHY he was unhappy with his experience. Just because it does not make you unhappy, does not make his experierience invalid.
So from what I can tell, most people bashing this review are questioning the person doing the review and not what the actual review states. Keeping in mind that this is the first time I've ever watched one of his reviews, l wanted to point out a few fallacies that everyone keeps stating as to the review and arguments against the scoring (Which I find to be quite accurate):
The ad hominem attacks meant to disrepute the actual review are pathetic. It adds nothing to the conversation other than your opinion about some dude on the internet -- you shouldn't care about the person so much as the review. If the review is accurate, it could matter less if the reviewer were Hitler. Reviews are meant to inform consumers about a product so that they can make a more conscientious decision as to whether they should buy said product. The review in question does exactly that. It tells you how the game plays, what kind of content it has, what kind of gamer might like it, and all of it's flaws and strengths. It gives you ample gameplay footage and wraps it all into an entertaining -- if somewhat annoying -- package.
"His review is bad because 10 year plan." This argument is both weak as an actual logical argument, and as a gamer myself I find it disgusting that this is seemingly being used as if it's a valid point. Let's be clear: Reviews are meant to give consumers an idea of what a product is. Not what it will be, what it won't be, or what it might be. Destiny, in it's current form, is definitely deserving of a mid-range score. It is by no means an 8-10, and it is by no means a 1-4. Logically, as you have absolutely no clue what the updates and expansions to Destiny will bring, you can not (again, logically -- let your emotions run wild) judge Destiny based on the simple fact that they claim they have a 10 year plan. As an example Bungie could go bankrupt, get shut down due to any number of reasons, have a large portion of their staff die/vanish/quit, or...well, you get the picture...and be unable to develop Destiny further, meaning you'd then have a 0/10 game (As it's always online, no Bungie = no servers = no game). On the other side of things, their updates could easily make the game a 10/10. But that's all speculation and rainbows. Destiny should be reviewed based on what it is.
As to my personal opinion on using this as an argument...Well, it's pathetic that we've come to the point that half-completed stories are "okay" and that the promise of more is somehow reasonable. But ignore that, I'm trying to keep this post void of my personal opinion on Destiny.
"His points are invalid." This one is more personal opinion, and which is why you shouldn't judge a review based on the "end score" but on the actual review. Minus his inaccuracy on Destiny's budget, -- which is inconsequential overall -- nothing he says is strictly a lie. The game's story does feel completely hollow to a large portion of us. The mission/crucible reward system is entirely RNG. The game is incredibly repetitive (Logically. You can fool yourselves all you want, but I've personally done The Nexus in the playlist too many times to even stand it anymore.). The game is beautiful. The lore can be great if it were directly in our hands instead of hidden in the corner of an app that many Destiny players will probably never download.
So let's be honest here, is the review inaccurate or simply not what you wanted to hear?
Activision nor Bungie have ever disclosed Development cost! Ever!
The $500 million figure was an official statement from Activision earlier this year as "INVESTMENT" in the entire Destiny franchise for coming 10 years! It's an entirely New Budget that has nothing to do with the production of Destiny!
All that has been found through a investor document a long time ago, is that Bungie got a $140 million Development Budget two and half years ago!
That is what they have spend on the game. Which is $60 million less than that turd of a game called CoD:MW2.
So With $60 million less spend than CoD:MW2 and only two and half year Production time (creating a brandnew engine and franchise in process) it's actually impressive what they have delivered.
Destiny is a highly polished game and I am enjoying it, together with many others. That is all that matters to me.
As you have clearly shown, Activision has promoted the $500M figure. I am sorry that you dont like it when the press quotes this... but the reference is clear. You have provided an old (2010), unofficial reference and are trying to use it to dispute the current, official figure presented by the publisher. I am sorry, but this isnt reliable.. and you cant expect the press to ignore the official statements, and use an old, inaccurate leak, as the source instead.
As for your experience.. well it in no way detracts from the Angry Joe reviwe. He is clear about WHY he was unhappy with his experience. Just because it does not make you unhappy, does not make his experierience invalid.
Have you actually read the official statement by Activision? You clearly didn't!
Did you click the link in the article in my link? No you did not do that either!
Activision NEVER said they spend $500 million on the Production of the game! They CLEARLY said they are going to invest $500 million on the entire Destiny franchise in coming 10 years! It's a new Budget!
So from what I can tell, most people bashing this review are questioning the person doing the review and not what the actual review states. Keeping in mind that this is the first time I've ever watched one of his reviews, l wanted to point out a few fallacies that everyone keeps stating as to the review and arguments against the scoring (Which I find to be quite accurate):
The ad hominem attacks meant to disrepute the actual review are pathetic. It adds nothing to the conversation other than your opinion about some dude on the internet -- you shouldn't care about the person so much as the review. If the review is accurate, it could matter less if the reviewer were Hitler. Reviews are meant to inform consumers about a product so that they can make a more conscientious decision as to whether they should buy said product. The review in question does exactly that. It tells you how the game plays, what kind of content it has, what kind of gamer might like it, and all of it's flaws and strengths. It gives you ample gameplay footage and wraps it all into an entertaining -- if somewhat annoying -- package.
"His review is bad because 10 year plan." This argument is both weak as an actual logical argument, and as a gamer myself I find it disgusting that this is seemingly being used as if it's a valid point. Let's be clear: Reviews are meant to give consumers an idea of what a product is. Not what it will be, what it won't be, or what it might be. Destiny, in it's current form, is definitely deserving of a mid-range score. It is by no means an 8-10, and it is by no means a 1-4. Logically, as you have absolutely no clue what the updates and expansions to Destiny will bring, you can not (again, logically -- let your emotions run wild) judge Destiny based on the simple fact that they claim they have a 10 year plan. As an example Bungie could go bankrupt, get shut down due to any number of reasons, have a large portion of their staff die/vanish/quit, or...well, you get the picture...and be unable to develop Destiny further, meaning you'd then have a 0/10 game (As it's always online, no Bungie = no servers = no game). On the other side of things, their updates could easily make the game a 10/10. But that's all speculation and rainbows. Destiny should be reviewed based on what it is.
"His points are invalid." This one is more personal opinion, and which is why you shouldn't judge a review based on the "end score" but on the actual review. Minus his inaccuracy on Destiny's budget, -- which is inconsequential overall -- nothing he says is strictly a lie. The game's story does feel completely hollow to a large portion of us. The mission/crucible reward system is entirely RNG. The game is incredibly repetitive (Logically. You can fool yourselves all you want, but I've personally done The Nexus in the playlist too many times to even stand it anymore.). The game is beautiful. The lore can be great if it were directly in our hands instead of hidden in the corner of an app that many Destiny players will probably never download.
So let's be honest here, is the review inaccurate or simply not what you wanted to hear?
First! He is basing his opinion on FALSE information! He is saying this is the most expensive game, based on FALSE information that has been spread around about $500 million by sensation journalism, not by actual facts!
This game is not the most expensive game ever created! $140 million isn't a huge Budget these days. Especially since Bungie created a brand new inhouse engine and entire New franchise from scratch.
All this in just two and half years! I find that impressive. But that's just me. Especially seeing how incredibly polished the game is! It's been a hell long time since I played a practically bug / issue free game right from launch!
Second! A score of 6 is just unjustified, because when it comes to game ratings, he is basically saying that the game is terribly bugged, broken and nearly unplayable! Excuse me?
The story is lacking YES! I agree! Especially when you don't use the Grimoire on Bungie.net. Bungie highly understimated todays gamers willingness to read! Everything needs to be spoonfed these days by handholding and contineous supply of fancy cutscenes.
On the Incredible polish alone, the game is worth a minimum 7 score.
Activision nor Bungie have ever disclosed Development cost! Ever!
The $500 million figure was an official statement from Activision earlier this year as "INVESTMENT" in the entire Destiny franchise for coming 10 years! It's an entirely New Budget that has nothing to do with the production of Destiny!
All that has been found through a investor document a long time ago, is that Bungie got a $140 million Development Budget two and half years ago!
That is what they have spend on the game. Which is $60 million less than that turd of a game called CoD:MW2.
So With $60 million less spend than CoD:MW2 and only two and half year Production time (creating a brandnew engine and franchise in process) it's actually impressive what they have delivered.
Destiny is a highly polished game and I am enjoying it, together with many others. That is all that matters to me.
As you have clearly shown, Activision has promoted the $500M figure. I am sorry that you dont like it when the press quotes this... but the reference is clear. You have provided an old (2010), unofficial reference and are trying to use it to dispute the current, official figure presented by the publisher. I am sorry, but this isnt reliable.. and you cant expect the press to ignore the official statements, and use an old, inaccurate leak, as the source instead.
As for your experience.. well it in no way detracts from the Angry Joe reviwe. He is clear about WHY he was unhappy with his experience. Just because it does not make you unhappy, does not make his experierience invalid.
Have you actually read the official statement by Activision? You clearly didn't!
Did you click the link in the article in my link? No you did not do that either!
Activision NEVER said they spend $500 million on the Production of the game! They CLEARLY said they are going to invest $500 million on the entire Destiny franchise in coming 10 years! It's a new Budget!
So, what you are saying is that Joe accurately referenced Activisions current information... but that because there was another article with data from 2010, he should have used that instead. I am sorry that the press is using accurate and relevant facts... and that this somehow upsets you.
So, what you are saying is that Joe accurately referenced Activisions current information... but that because there was another article with data from 2010, he should have used that instead. I am sorry that the press is using accurate and relevant facts... and that this somehow upsets you.
Honestly, the argument is as pointless as the review. Unfortunately, the Internet and Siskel & Ebert have essentially popularized grading systems that are irrelevant since they essentially equate to two thumbs up (or an opinion) instead of reasonable, scored categories.
Remember when sites had categories for things like Graphics, Sound, Replayability, etc., etc. Why don't we do these any more? It seems like a much more compelling story about a review than saying something like "They sold me DLC so I'm pissed". Unfortunately, I think it boils down to the degradation of our ability to read and write in this society. Now we simply post videos on YouTube and that basically certifies you as a critic. I'm really happy that my kids are growing up in a generation when they'll be able to be successful as long as they're comfortable spouting off half-thought-out ideas in front of a camera. Shoot, they probably don't even need to do that well in school. Thanks Internet!
Oh, I forgot to mention that it's just my opinion, so that disclaims me from having to take any responsibility for or be accountable to anything I just said.
Originally posted by hunt55511 So from what I can tell, most people bashing this review are questioning the person doing the review and not what the actual review states. Keeping in mind that this is the first time I've ever watched one of his reviews, l wanted to point out a few fallacies that everyone keeps stating as to the review and arguments against the scoring (Which I find to be quite accurate):The ad hominem attacks meant to disrepute the actual review are pathetic. It adds nothing to the conversation other than your opinion about some dude on the internet -- you shouldn't care about the person so much as the review. If the review is accurate, it could matter less if the reviewer were Hitler. Reviews are meant to inform consumers about a product so that they can make a more conscientious decision as to whether they should buy said product. The review in question does exactly that. It tells you how the game plays, what kind of content it has, what kind of gamer might like it, and all of it's flaws and strengths. It gives you ample gameplay footage and wraps it all into an entertaining -- if somewhat annoying -- package."His review is bad because 10 year plan." This argument is both weak as an actual logical argument, and as a gamer myself I find it disgusting that this is seemingly being used as if it's a valid point. Let's be clear: Reviews are meant to give consumers an idea of what a product is. Not what it will be, what it won't be, or what it might be. Destiny, in it's current form, is definitely deserving of a mid-range score. It is by no means an 8-10, and it is by no means a 1-4. Logically, as you have absolutely no clue what the updates and expansions to Destiny will bring, you can not (again, logically -- let your emotions run wild) judge Destiny based on the simple fact that they claim they have a 10 year plan. As an example Bungie could go bankrupt, get shut down due to any number of reasons, have a large portion of their staff die/vanish/quit, or...well, you get the picture...and be unable to develop Destiny further, meaning you'd then have a 0/10 game (As it's always online, no Bungie = no servers = no game). On the other side of things, their updates could easily make the game a 10/10. But that's all speculation and rainbows. Destiny should be reviewed based on what it is.As to my personal opinion on using this as an argument...Well, it's pathetic that we've come to the point that half-completed stories are "okay" and that the promise of more is somehow reasonable. But ignore that, I'm trying to keep this post void of my personal opinion on Destiny."His points are invalid." This one is more personal opinion, and which is why you shouldn't judge a review based on the "end score" but on the actual review. Minus his inaccuracy on Destiny's budget, -- which is inconsequential overall -- nothing he says is strictly a lie. The game's story does feel completely hollow to a large portion of us. The mission/crucible reward system is entirely RNG. The game is incredibly repetitive (Logically. You can fool yourselves all you want, but I've personally done The Nexus in the playlist too many times to even stand it anymore.). The game is beautiful. The lore can be great if it were directly in our hands instead of hidden in the corner of an app that many Destiny players will probably never download.So let's be honest here, is the review inaccurate or simply not what you wanted to hear?
Excellent points. Truth is, even if this game had cost only $1 to develop, that wouldn't make it any more enjoyable. Strangely, Bungie normally makes quite good games. I wonder if we'll ever find out just what the Hell went wrong.
First! He is basing his opinion on FALSE information! He is saying this is the most expensive game, based on FALSE information that has been spread around about $500 million by sensation journalism, not by actual facts!
This game is not the most expensive game ever created! $140 million isn't a huge Budget these days. Especially since Bungie created a brand new inhouse engine and entire New franchise from scratch.
All this in just two and half years! I find that impressive. But that's just me. Especially seeing how incredibly polished the game is! It's been a hell long time since I played a practically bug / issue free game right from launch!
Second! A score of 6 is just unjustified, because when it comes to game ratings, he is basically saying that the game is terribly bugged, broken and nearly unplayable! Excuse me?
The story is lacking YES! I agree! Especially when you don't use the Grimoire on Bungie.net. Bungie highly understimated todays gamers willingness to read! Everything needs to be spoonfed these days by handholding and contineous supply of fancy cutscenes.
On the Incredible polish alone, the game is worth a minimum 7 score.
1) Name one thing other than Destiny's budget (Not overly relevant to the game itself's quality) that he got wrong.
2) How is a 6 "Buggy, nearly unplayable"? I would think that would be a 1-3. A 6 is a game that is fundamentally working but lacks that special something that makes an amazing game.
3) What does time frame of creation, or budget for that matter, have to do with it being a good game? Neither matters towards what the consumer on the end experiences. Sure, it's a cool metric and all, but it adds absolutely no redeeming feature to the game itself.
4) If I make a game with amazing amounts of polish, amazing graphics, and amazing gunplay but all I've included content-wise is a single map that you shoot a single type of enemy on (For destiny, multiply by 4), would that be a game worthy of a 7? Because that's the argument you're presenting with your final sentence. Maybe if you'd said "Between the game's polish and fundamental gameplay, the game deserves at least a 7" this wouldn't peeve me, but to consider a game a 7 simply based on polish is bad consumerism on your part. It's like getting a Lamborghini and being told "You can only drive it on this street."
5) The grimoire argument is invalid simply because it's not part of the game. It's not included with the game, you have to have a smartphone to use it, and it doesn't add all that much more depth to the game's lore outside of ghost fragments you may never find.
I'm trying to leave my opinion out of this and look at it objectively. Please do try to do the same.
Honestly, the argument is as pointless as the review. Unfortunately, the Internet and Siskel & Ebert have essentially popularized grading systems that are irrelevant since they essentially equate to two thumbs up (or an opinion) instead of reasonable, scored categories.
Remember when sites had categories for things like Graphics, Sound, Replayability, etc., etc. Why don't we do these any more? It seems like a much more compelling story about a review than saying something like "They sold me DLC so I'm pissed". Unfortunately, I think it boils down to the degradation of our ability to read and write in this society. Now we simply post videos on YouTube and that basically certifies you as a critic. I'm really happy that my kids are growing up in a generation when they'll be able to be successful as long as they're comfortable spouting off half-thought-out ideas in front of a camera. Shoot, they probably don't even need to do that well in school. Thanks Internet!
Oh, I forgot to mention that it's just my opinion, so that disclaims me from having to take any responsibility for or be accountable to anything I just said.
You pretty much nailed the nail on the head.
MMORPG.com is one of the few sites left that actually still does this. Giving scores in each catagory and then base the final score on it.
And honestly, I do agree with a lot of the critics to some extend. The game is definitely far from perfect.
But a 6 out of 10? Come on now! I find that very harsh, driven mostly by emotion and false expectations, then a really unbiased review. Especially when you compare it to various other games scores.
Other games that have gotten a 6 in the past, had serious issues at launch, like a lot of bugs, stuff that was plain broken, etc. Destiny has none of that and is incredibly polished!
5) The grimoire argument is invalid simply because it's not part of the game. It's not included with the game, you have to have a smartphone to use it, and it doesn't add all that much more depth to the game's lore outside of ghost fragments you may never find.
I'm trying to leave my opinion out of this and loot at it objectively. Please do try to do the same.
I can log into Bungie.net with my account and see everything the Companion App does! Including the Grimore!
So how do I need the phone version of the app again?
Strawman argument, though I do apologize for being ignorant of the fact that there's a website for it too.
Counter:
1) I should not require two screens to play a game. So let's assume I play it on a big TV at home with no tablet, laptop, or smartphone readily available.
2) I should not have to leave the game to enjoy the game. I should not have to do homework to enjoy the game.
Are you saying it's acceptable that to learn more about the game, I actually have to stop playing the game? I don't mind reading, but to say that it's okay for a game to only have the majority of it's lore accessible outside of the game is mind boggling.
Edit to your Edit:
Are you ready for this? Let's do an objective averaging of all of Destiny's aspects. Sorry for it being short but I'm lazy and I don't want an edit alone to be the size of my first post in this thread. First, there is no "polish" category. That's inflating the score, as it's already included in to each individual category (A category must be polished to reach a high score). All scores are based on current game, no upcoming updates taken into account (Again, they should not be taken into account). In general, I'm being generous on a few of the things like innovation and setting. This is just to show you that even taking into account Destiny's strengths, it can't get much higher than a 7-ish.
Graphics - 10. No denying that Destiny looks gorgeous.
Sound - 9. Deducting one point for Ghost voiceacting, music pacing versus gameplay pacing. Overall, still amazing.
Gameplay - 8. Where do the points get taken off? Mission and strike design. There is no denying that all missions and strikes follow the same basic pattern. The only mission that even veers a little bit from this standard is the Sword of Crota and that's only in how you kill the waves. This is counterbalanced by the gunplay's incredible polish, which feels excellent.
Innovation - 8. While it doesn't bring anything strictly ground-breaking to the table, it does do something different in the way it meshes elements from different game genres.
Setting - 7. Generally appealing sci-fi setting, but could use more fleshing out within the game. That's right, screw the Grimoire. Actually, including the Grimoire it's still a 7. The Grimoire doesn't add that much depth.
Story - 3. Because there really isn't one, despite what I keep hearing people say. When a story is told through three (4 if you count the opening cinematic) cutscenes and assorted voice clips (Mostly voiced by a single character), it's hardly worthy of anything more than a 3. Add in to this that it's absurdly generic with no plot twists, personality development, or decent pacing and it's lucky to still get a 3.
Replayability - The hardest part to score because it depends on what type of player you are. I'm rating it X for the final score, for me personally it's a 4. I'm being honest here.
Multiplayer - 5. Maps are too focused on CQC, there are too many one-shot wonders, and matchmaking is nonexistent.
FInal score: 10+9+8+8+7+3+5+X=50+X
(50+X)/8=50/8+X/8 =
6.25+X/8
Min: 6.25, rounds to 6.
For me: 6.75. In actuality a 6 because I wouldn't pad Innovation and Setting like I did for this example.
I can log into Bungie.net with my account and see everything the Companion App does! Including the Grimore!
So how do I need the phone version of the app again?
Strawman argument, though I do apologize for being ignorant of the fact that there's a website for it too.
Counter:
1) I should not require two screens to play a game. So let's assume I play it on a big TV at home with no tablet, laptop, or smartphone readily available.
2) I should not have to leave the game to enjoy the game. I should not have to do homework to enjoy the game.
Are you saying it's acceptable that to learn more about the game, I actually have to stop playing the game? I don't mind reading, but to say that it's okay for a game to only have the majority of it's lore accessible outside of the game is mind boggling.
You don't need the website to enjoy the game!
The website and Companion App is a META game! Something you can use when not playing! Looking at Your character, activies you have done, achievements and read through the Grimoire when you feel like it.
And seriously! I have played many MMO's for many years now and never read much lore ingame either. I did it mostly outside the game on fansites and well made wikias. Especially with EverQuest 2, which I have played on and off for 10 years now.
So, what you are saying is that Joe accurately referenced Activisions current information... but that because there was another article with data from 2010, he should have used that instead. I am sorry that the press is using accurate and relevant facts... and that this somehow upsets you.
As you can see here, an investment site is referencing the effect of their stock, and the feeback on the launch. Some of this is very similar to what Joe presented.
The website and Companion App is a META game! Something you can use when not playing! Looking at Your character, activies you have done, achievements and read through the Grimoire when you feel like it.
And seriously! I have played many MMO's for many years now and never read much lore ingame either. I did it mostly outside the game on fansites and well made wikias. Especially with EverQuest 2, which I have played on and off for 10 years now.
1) Read my edit to the post.
2) Er...what? A...meta game? Are you just making stuff up now? No. Just no. You're not even making sense now, and I refuse to encourage it. You didn't answer the argument at all, you're just spouting nonsense to detract from the truth: to learn more about Destiny's story and setting you must stop playing the game or divert your attention from it.
I usually dont like Angry Joe reviews, but I must say i agree with almost all of his points.
And if anyone cant see how having to buy DLC to get a complete game is just bad i dont even know what to tell them.
I bought the digital guardian edition for $90, comes with the 1st two DLC. I dont mind buying DLC at all, but not when it was most likely pulled from the original game only to be sold later. Judging by some of the old footage of Destiny this is almost assured.
I do like the game and dont regret buying it, I have had fun playing it, and will continue to do so off and on. But overall I just have to wonder what they were thinking with some of the choices and just lazy features.
Oh well, maybe the DLC I already paid for will complete the game.
The website and Companion App is a META game! Something you can use when not playing! Looking at Your character, activies you have done, achievements and read through the Grimoire when you feel like it.
And seriously! I have played many MMO's for many years now and never read much lore ingame either. I did it mostly outside the game on fansites and well made wikias. Especially with EverQuest 2, which I have played on and off for 10 years now.
1) Read my edit to the post.
2) Er...what? A...meta game? Are you just making stuff up now? No. Just no. You're not even making sense now, and I refuse to encourage it. You didn't answer the argument at all, you're just spouting nonsense to detract from the truth: to learn more about Destiny's story and setting you must stop playing the game or divert your attention from it.
And in an MMO you don't? You are reading lore ingame when being jumped by enemies?
No! You read when you move your character to a safe area first. So you basically interupting your gameplay no matter what.
Stating otherwise is just nit-picking. And the Smartphone is also a strawman argument! As unless you live in a poor country, it's almost impossible to not get a Smartphone these days.
Even low Budget android Phones can run the App and every other phone has at least a browser to Access the mobile Version of Bungie.net.
And who says they won't add the feature to read the Grimoire ingame at a later date, when enough people request it?
WoW, EQ2, LOTRO, etc and many other MMO's didn't launch with all features either! Lots were added through future patches, updates and expansions! People seem to have forgotten that.
That is the Whole problem! People act like this is a final game, like Halo, CoD or BF. You play it, you done and you just get a DLC or two and that's it. While they have been stating time and again that the game will be expanded upon through both FREE and Paid (DLC) updates.
Destiny also doesn't have a $15 dollar monthly Subscription fee either! So Yeah, they going to release a DLC once every 4 months or so, which comes down to roughly $5 - 6 bucks a month (PSN+ included).
They have a huge server infrastructure to maintain and an entire dev team to pay monthly salaries. Money has to come from somewhere.
And honestly, I rather pay a DLC once every 4 months, then dealing with all these stupid cash shop cash grab F2P MMO's today!
The website and Companion App is a META game! Something you can use when not playing! Looking at Your character, activies you have done, achievements and read through the Grimoire when you feel like it.
And seriously! I have played many MMO's for many years now and never read much lore ingame either. I did it mostly outside the game on fansites and well made wikias. Especially with EverQuest 2, which I have played on and off for 10 years now.
1) Read my edit to the post.
2) Er...what? A...meta game? Are you just making stuff up now? No. Just no. You're not even making sense now, and I refuse to encourage it. You didn't answer the argument at all, you're just spouting nonsense to detract from the truth: to learn more about Destiny's story and setting you must stop playing the game or divert your attention from it.
And in an MMO you don't? You are reading lore ingame when being jumped by enemies?
No! You read when you move your character to a safe area first. So you basically interupting your gameplay no matter what.
Stating otherwise is just nit-picking. And the Smartphone is also a strawman argument! As unless you live in a poor country, it's almost impossible to not get a Smartphone these days.
Even low Budget android Phones can run the App and every other phone has at least a browser to Access the mobile Version of Bungie.net.
And who says they won't add the feature to read the Grimoire ingame at a later date, when enough people request it?
WoW, EQ2, LOTRO, etc and many other MMO's didn't launch with all features either! Lots were added through future patches, updates and expansions! People seem to have forgotten that.
That is the Whole problem! People act like this is a final game, like Halo, CoD or BF. You play it, you done and you just get a DLC or two and that's it. While they have been stating time and again that the game will be expanded upon through both FREE and Paid (DLC) updates.
Come come now, Jero
You got a hell of a lot more content in the release version of those games then you do with Destiny.
And if anyone cant see how having to buy DLC to get a complete game is just bad i dont even know what to tell them.
MMO's (or multiplayer online persistent world shooters in this case) are never complete. There's always some new patch, DLC or expansion, until the servers shut down.
Originally posted by jdnewell
Oh well, maybe the DLC I already paid for will complete the game.
It won't. It will continue the story, but not finish it, since it's a 10 year long project.
I'm not saying that it's the bestest game ever, since it has many flaws. But, it's certainly worth playing, as it's fun and it will only get better (hopefully).
The website and Companion App is a META game! Something you can use when not playing! Looking at Your character, activies you have done, achievements and read through the Grimoire when you feel like it.
And seriously! I have played many MMO's for many years now and never read much lore ingame either. I did it mostly outside the game on fansites and well made wikias. Especially with EverQuest 2, which I have played on and off for 10 years now.
1) Read my edit to the post.
2) Er...what? A...meta game? Are you just making stuff up now? No. Just no. You're not even making sense now, and I refuse to encourage it. You didn't answer the argument at all, you're just spouting nonsense to detract from the truth: to learn more about Destiny's story and setting you must stop playing the game or divert your attention from it.
And in an MMO you don't? You are reading lore ingame when being jumped by enemies?
No! You read when you move your character to a safe area first. So you basically interupting your gameplay no matter what.
Stating otherwise is just nit-picking. And the Smartphone is also a strawman argument! As unless you live in a poor country, it's almost impossible to not get a Smartphone these days.
Even low Budget android Phones can run the App and every other phone has at least a browser to Access the mobile Version of Bungie.net.
And who says they won't add the feature to read the Grimoire ingame at a later date, when enough people request it?
WoW, EQ2, LOTRO, etc and many other MMO's didn't launch with all features either! Lots were added through future patches, updates and expansions! People seem to have forgotten that.
That is the Whole problem! People act like this is a final game, like Halo, CoD or BF. You play it, you done and you just get a DLC or two and that's it. While they have been stating time and again that the game will be expanded upon through both FREE and Paid (DLC) updates.
Come come now, Jero
You got a hell of a lot more content in the release version of those games then you do with Destiny.
Those games had 5-7 years of Development time and had both a full Box price and $15 dollar monthly Subscription fee.
Not to mention suffered a ton of bugs and issues at launch, that took months to sort out most of it, while some still exist today.
Game studios don't get that amount of time anymore! Two-Three years tops! That's it!
The Destiny contract was signed back in 2010. Then Bungie had to first create the New engine and Tools from scratch, before actual Development began.
So the actual Production of the game has not been more than two to two and half years. Which is in my opinion impressive what they managed to deliver. Especially with such Incredible polish!
It's one of the main reason why I enjoy the game so much and have a blast! It's such a breath of fresh air for once, to play a bug free / issue free game again! As in two weeks I have yet to run into a single bug or issue!
After having played Destiny now. I take QUALITY over QUANTITY any time!
The website and Companion App is a META game! Something you can use when not playing! Looking at Your character, activies you have done, achievements and read through the Grimoire when you feel like it.
And seriously! I have played many MMO's for many years now and never read much lore ingame either. I did it mostly outside the game on fansites and well made wikias. Especially with EverQuest 2, which I have played on and off for 10 years now.
1) Read my edit to the post.
2) Er...what? A...meta game? Are you just making stuff up now? No. Just no. You're not even making sense now, and I refuse to encourage it. You didn't answer the argument at all, you're just spouting nonsense to detract from the truth: to learn more about Destiny's story and setting you must stop playing the game or divert your attention from it.
And in an MMO you don't? You are reading lore ingame when being jumped by enemies?
No! You read when you move your character to a safe area first. So you basically interupting your gameplay no matter what.
Stating otherwise is just nit-picking. And the Smartphone is also a strawman argument! As unless you live in a poor country, it's almost impossible to not get a Smartphone these days.
Even low Budget android Phones can run the App and every other phone has at least a browser to Access the mobile Version of Bungie.net.
And who says they won't add the feature to read the Grimoire ingame at a later date, when enough people request it?
WoW, EQ2, LOTRO, etc and many other MMO's didn't launch with all features either! Lots were added through future patches, updates and expansions! People seem to have forgotten that.
That is the Whole problem! People act like this is a final game, like Halo, CoD or BF. You play it, you done and you just get a DLC or two and that's it. While they have been stating time and again that the game will be expanded upon through both FREE and Paid (DLC) updates.
Come come now, Jero
You got a hell of a lot more content in the release version of those games then you do with Destiny.
Those games had 5-7 years of Development time and had both a full Box price and $15 dollar monthly Subscription fee.
Not to mention suffered a ton of bugs and issues at launch, that took months to sort out most of it, while some still exist today.
Game studios don't get that amount of time anymore! Two-Three years tops! That's it!
The Destiny contract was signed back in 2010. Then Bungie had to first create the New engine and Tools from scratch, before actual Development began.
So the actual Production of the game has not been more than two to two and half years. Which is in my opinion impressive what they managed to deliver. Especially with such Incredible polish!
It's one of the main reason why I enjoy the game so much and have a blast! It's such a breath of fresh air for once, to play a bug free / issue free game again! As in two weeks I have yet to run into a single bug or issue!
After having played Destiny now. I take QUALITY over QUANTITY any time!
But that's just my opinion.
There is a balance Jero... You can go too far either way.
More content = more polish, I guess you can concentrate on polish when you neglect content, which also gives you less to polish.
Development time blah blah blah. What matter's is what you get for what you pay for. Now you seem to be very well satisfied with what you recieved, but it seems like a huge number are not. Maybe when you have to spend so much effort defending something there might actually be a real world, significant, problem with the product.
Regardless of whether the game sucks or not, it doesn't suck as much as this guy. I get tired of overacting try hard youtube personalities. There's a reason why he's on youtube and not doing it professionally. Angry Joe just because he yells? This guy needs to take some classes on acting or something. He's not funny at all.
As far as Destiny goes, I've played beta for a while. Will it meet the same fate as Titanfall? Maybe, maybe not. Honestly it's too early to judge. You can't take this video seriously. Especially when it's a wasted 33 mins. I don't care if he's trying to be thorough. It doesn't require 33 mins. I see better reviewers do in less time. Let's wait a month or two for the game to settle.........and a better review from someone else.
And in an MMO you don't? You are reading lore ingame when being jumped by enemies?
No! You read when you move your character to a safe area first. So you basically interupting your gameplay no matter what.
Stating otherwise is just nit-picking. And the Smartphone is also a strawman argument! As unless you live in a poor country, it's almost impossible to not get a Smartphone these days.
Even low Budget android Phones can run the App and every other phone has at least a browser to Access the mobile Version of Bungie.net.
And who says they won't add the feature to read the Grimoire ingame at a later date, when enough people request it?
WoW, EQ2, LOTRO, etc and many other MMO's didn't launch with all features either! Lots were added through future patches, updates and expansions! People seem to have forgotten that.
That is the Whole problem! People act like this is a final game, like Halo, CoD or BF. You play it, you done and you just get a DLC or two and that's it. While they have been stating time and again that the game will be expanded upon through both FREE and Paid (DLC) updates.
Destiny also doesn't have a $15 dollar monthly Subscription fee either! So Yeah, they going to release a DLC once every 4 months or so, which comes down to roughly $5 - 6 bucks a month (PSN+ included).
They have a huge server infrastructure to maintain and an entire dev team to pay monthly salaries. Money has to come from somewhere.
And honestly, I rather pay a DLC once every 4 months, then dealing with all these stupid cash shop cash grab F2P MMO's today!
Fact: You can not review what is not there. Shall we wait 10 years to review Destiny?
Fact: Grimoire is out of game. It is not in game. Do not say what if, because until it is, it isn't. There is no nitpicking to it, to learn more about Destiny I either have to
A) Go to Bungie's website on something other than my PS4 (Because internet browsing on PS4 lol). Log in to my PSN account. Find where the hell they keep the Grimoire. Scroll through, card by card.
Replace "Go to Bungie's Website" with "Download Destiny app and wait".
While I'm doing this, I'm not playing the game. Most players do not like this, and it is very backwards from how a game should be evolving over time.
HILARIOUS fact: PS+ alone costs $10/month on a monthly subscription. All MMOs have huge discounts for buying a year+ subscription. Assuming you spend $60/year on DLC ($20 per, 3 a year) + $50 PS+ Yearly, that's on average around the same as a yearly subscription to most MMOs.
Fact: You're still trying to give Destiny a good rating based on what it might become, not on what it is. I can only conclude you're a fanboy that refuses to take Destiny for what it is now, and as such I see no further reason even arguing with you reasonably.
While we're taking the time to compare it to MMOs, let me try something fun. Note that I'm only using certain arguments because you decided to as well. The only reason I'm even comparing it to an MMO is because you're being woefully dull. This isn't my logical or real opinion, I'm just making a point here (I chose Rift because I played it at launch):
On release, Rift -- a game with a comparatively small budget to Destiny -- had twice as many dungeons (Strikes) that were more varied and included actual mechanics as opposed to Strikes' waves of enemies and a bulletspon...er, boss. Their dungeons did not re-traverse much/any area you'd already visited. It's classes were much more diverse than Destiny's, each had...what was it, 8?... Souls. It had more PvP match types, each massively more varied in comparison to Destiny's. It's maps also weren't god-awfully claustrophobia-inducing. It had an actual story where you, an Ascended, unraveled the mysteries around the past Telara and the goings-on of the world you now lived in. It had a raid at release, with twice as many bosses as the Vault of Glass. It also took way longer to clear than VoG did. At release, it had 2.5 times as many levels and twice as many zones. It's public events were much more frequent and much more diverse. It did not make you spend 2 minutes on a loading screen looking at a flying spaceship.
But somehow it's acceptable for an "MMOFPS hybrid" to leave out story, have very few strikes, have 4 zones, 3 same-ish classes, and not even include lore within the game itself.
Comments
Activision nor Bungie have ever disclosed Development cost! Ever!
The $500 million figure was an official statement from Activision earlier this year as "INVESTMENT" in the entire Destiny franchise for coming 10 years! It's an entirely New Budget that has nothing to do with the production of Destiny!
All that has been found through a investor document a long time ago, is that Bungie got a $140 million Development Budget two and half years ago!
http://playeressence.com/destinys-development-budget-costs-140-million/
That is what they have spend on the game. Which is $60 million less than that turd of a game called CoD:MW2.
So With $60 million less spend than CoD:MW2 and only two and half year Production time (creating a brandnew engine and franchise in process) it's actually impressive what they have delivered.
Destiny is a highly polished game and I am enjoying it, together with many others. That is all that matters to me.
I mean... when was the last time you have played an entirely bugfree game? I haven't run into a single bug or issue. Except the ocassional server disconnect when in The Tower, due to popularity and server overload.
As you have clearly shown, Activision has promoted the $500M figure. I am sorry that you dont like it when the press quotes this... but the reference is clear. You have provided an old (2010), unofficial reference and are trying to use it to dispute the current, official figure presented by the publisher. I am sorry, but this isnt reliable.. and you cant expect the press to ignore the official statements, and use an old, inaccurate leak, as the source instead.
As for your experience.. well it in no way detracts from the Angry Joe reviwe. He is clear about WHY he was unhappy with his experience. Just because it does not make you unhappy, does not make his experierience invalid.
So from what I can tell, most people bashing this review are questioning the person doing the review and not what the actual review states. Keeping in mind that this is the first time I've ever watched one of his reviews, l wanted to point out a few fallacies that everyone keeps stating as to the review and arguments against the scoring (Which I find to be quite accurate):
The ad hominem attacks meant to disrepute the actual review are pathetic. It adds nothing to the conversation other than your opinion about some dude on the internet -- you shouldn't care about the person so much as the review. If the review is accurate, it could matter less if the reviewer were Hitler. Reviews are meant to inform consumers about a product so that they can make a more conscientious decision as to whether they should buy said product. The review in question does exactly that. It tells you how the game plays, what kind of content it has, what kind of gamer might like it, and all of it's flaws and strengths. It gives you ample gameplay footage and wraps it all into an entertaining -- if somewhat annoying -- package.
"His review is bad because 10 year plan." This argument is both weak as an actual logical argument, and as a gamer myself I find it disgusting that this is seemingly being used as if it's a valid point. Let's be clear: Reviews are meant to give consumers an idea of what a product is. Not what it will be, what it won't be, or what it might be. Destiny, in it's current form, is definitely deserving of a mid-range score. It is by no means an 8-10, and it is by no means a 1-4. Logically, as you have absolutely no clue what the updates and expansions to Destiny will bring, you can not (again, logically -- let your emotions run wild) judge Destiny based on the simple fact that they claim they have a 10 year plan. As an example Bungie could go bankrupt, get shut down due to any number of reasons, have a large portion of their staff die/vanish/quit, or...well, you get the picture...and be unable to develop Destiny further, meaning you'd then have a 0/10 game (As it's always online, no Bungie = no servers = no game). On the other side of things, their updates could easily make the game a 10/10. But that's all speculation and rainbows. Destiny should be reviewed based on what it is.
As to my personal opinion on using this as an argument...Well, it's pathetic that we've come to the point that half-completed stories are "okay" and that the promise of more is somehow reasonable. But ignore that, I'm trying to keep this post void of my personal opinion on Destiny.
"His points are invalid." This one is more personal opinion, and which is why you shouldn't judge a review based on the "end score" but on the actual review. Minus his inaccuracy on Destiny's budget, -- which is inconsequential overall -- nothing he says is strictly a lie. The game's story does feel completely hollow to a large portion of us. The mission/crucible reward system is entirely RNG. The game is incredibly repetitive (Logically. You can fool yourselves all you want, but I've personally done The Nexus in the playlist too many times to even stand it anymore.). The game is beautiful. The lore can be great if it were directly in our hands instead of hidden in the corner of an app that many Destiny players will probably never download.
So let's be honest here, is the review inaccurate or simply not what you wanted to hear?
Have you actually read the official statement by Activision? You clearly didn't!
Did you click the link in the article in my link? No you did not do that either!
Activision NEVER said they spend $500 million on the Production of the game! They CLEARLY said they are going to invest $500 million on the entire Destiny franchise in coming 10 years! It's a new Budget!
First! He is basing his opinion on FALSE information! He is saying this is the most expensive game, based on FALSE information that has been spread around about $500 million by sensation journalism, not by actual facts!
This game is not the most expensive game ever created! $140 million isn't a huge Budget these days. Especially since Bungie created a brand new inhouse engine and entire New franchise from scratch.
All this in just two and half years! I find that impressive. But that's just me. Especially seeing how incredibly polished the game is! It's been a hell long time since I played a practically bug / issue free game right from launch!
Second! A score of 6 is just unjustified, because when it comes to game ratings, he is basically saying that the game is terribly bugged, broken and nearly unplayable! Excuse me?
The story is lacking YES! I agree! Especially when you don't use the Grimoire on Bungie.net. Bungie highly understimated todays gamers willingness to read! Everything needs to be spoonfed these days by handholding and contineous supply of fancy cutscenes.
On the Incredible polish alone, the game is worth a minimum 7 score.
So, what you are saying is that Joe accurately referenced Activisions current information... but that because there was another article with data from 2010, he should have used that instead. I am sorry that the press is using accurate and relevant facts... and that this somehow upsets you.
http://www.engadget.com/2014/08/13/destiny-500-million/
Honestly, the argument is as pointless as the review. Unfortunately, the Internet and Siskel & Ebert have essentially popularized grading systems that are irrelevant since they essentially equate to two thumbs up (or an opinion) instead of reasonable, scored categories.
Remember when sites had categories for things like Graphics, Sound, Replayability, etc., etc. Why don't we do these any more? It seems like a much more compelling story about a review than saying something like "They sold me DLC so I'm pissed". Unfortunately, I think it boils down to the degradation of our ability to read and write in this society. Now we simply post videos on YouTube and that basically certifies you as a critic. I'm really happy that my kids are growing up in a generation when they'll be able to be successful as long as they're comfortable spouting off half-thought-out ideas in front of a camera. Shoot, they probably don't even need to do that well in school. Thanks Internet!
Oh, I forgot to mention that it's just my opinion, so that disclaims me from having to take any responsibility for or be accountable to anything I just said.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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1) Name one thing other than Destiny's budget (Not overly relevant to the game itself's quality) that he got wrong.
2) How is a 6 "Buggy, nearly unplayable"? I would think that would be a 1-3. A 6 is a game that is fundamentally working but lacks that special something that makes an amazing game.
3) What does time frame of creation, or budget for that matter, have to do with it being a good game? Neither matters towards what the consumer on the end experiences. Sure, it's a cool metric and all, but it adds absolutely no redeeming feature to the game itself.
4) If I make a game with amazing amounts of polish, amazing graphics, and amazing gunplay but all I've included content-wise is a single map that you shoot a single type of enemy on (For destiny, multiply by 4), would that be a game worthy of a 7? Because that's the argument you're presenting with your final sentence. Maybe if you'd said "Between the game's polish and fundamental gameplay, the game deserves at least a 7" this wouldn't peeve me, but to consider a game a 7 simply based on polish is bad consumerism on your part. It's like getting a Lamborghini and being told "You can only drive it on this street."
5) The grimoire argument is invalid simply because it's not part of the game. It's not included with the game, you have to have a smartphone to use it, and it doesn't add all that much more depth to the game's lore outside of ghost fragments you may never find.
I'm trying to leave my opinion out of this and look at it objectively. Please do try to do the same.
You pretty much nailed the nail on the head.
MMORPG.com is one of the few sites left that actually still does this. Giving scores in each catagory and then base the final score on it.
And honestly, I do agree with a lot of the critics to some extend. The game is definitely far from perfect.
But a 6 out of 10? Come on now! I find that very harsh, driven mostly by emotion and false expectations, then a really unbiased review. Especially when you compare it to various other games scores.
Other games that have gotten a 6 in the past, had serious issues at launch, like a lot of bugs, stuff that was plain broken, etc. Destiny has none of that and is incredibly polished!
LMAO! Really?
This is my Main character:
http://www.bungie.net/en/Legend/2/4611686018433067284/2305843009215374706
I can log into Bungie.net with my account and see everything the Companion App does! Including the Grimore!
So how do I need the phone version of the app again?
And you looking at it objectively? Come on now! You have been bashing and raging against this game from the start!
Bringing up arguments that have been debunked, just like this one.
Objectivity my arse. Have you actually looked at your own post history? /shrug
Strawman argument, though I do apologize for being ignorant of the fact that there's a website for it too.
Counter:
1) I should not require two screens to play a game. So let's assume I play it on a big TV at home with no tablet, laptop, or smartphone readily available.
2) I should not have to leave the game to enjoy the game. I should not have to do homework to enjoy the game.
Are you saying it's acceptable that to learn more about the game, I actually have to stop playing the game? I don't mind reading, but to say that it's okay for a game to only have the majority of it's lore accessible outside of the game is mind boggling.
Edit to your Edit:
Are you ready for this? Let's do an objective averaging of all of Destiny's aspects. Sorry for it being short but I'm lazy and I don't want an edit alone to be the size of my first post in this thread. First, there is no "polish" category. That's inflating the score, as it's already included in to each individual category (A category must be polished to reach a high score). All scores are based on current game, no upcoming updates taken into account (Again, they should not be taken into account). In general, I'm being generous on a few of the things like innovation and setting. This is just to show you that even taking into account Destiny's strengths, it can't get much higher than a 7-ish.
Graphics - 10. No denying that Destiny looks gorgeous.
Sound - 9. Deducting one point for Ghost voiceacting, music pacing versus gameplay pacing. Overall, still amazing.
Gameplay - 8. Where do the points get taken off? Mission and strike design. There is no denying that all missions and strikes follow the same basic pattern. The only mission that even veers a little bit from this standard is the Sword of Crota and that's only in how you kill the waves. This is counterbalanced by the gunplay's incredible polish, which feels excellent.
Innovation - 8. While it doesn't bring anything strictly ground-breaking to the table, it does do something different in the way it meshes elements from different game genres.
Setting - 7. Generally appealing sci-fi setting, but could use more fleshing out within the game. That's right, screw the Grimoire. Actually, including the Grimoire it's still a 7. The Grimoire doesn't add that much depth.
Story - 3. Because there really isn't one, despite what I keep hearing people say. When a story is told through three (4 if you count the opening cinematic) cutscenes and assorted voice clips (Mostly voiced by a single character), it's hardly worthy of anything more than a 3. Add in to this that it's absurdly generic with no plot twists, personality development, or decent pacing and it's lucky to still get a 3.
Replayability - The hardest part to score because it depends on what type of player you are. I'm rating it X for the final score, for me personally it's a 4. I'm being honest here.
Multiplayer - 5. Maps are too focused on CQC, there are too many one-shot wonders, and matchmaking is nonexistent.
FInal score: 10+9+8+8+7+3+5+X=50+X
(50+X)/8=50/8+X/8 =
6.25+X/8
Min: 6.25, rounds to 6.
For me: 6.75. In actuality a 6 because I wouldn't pad Innovation and Setting like I did for this example.
Max: 7.5.
You don't need the website to enjoy the game!
The website and Companion App is a META game! Something you can use when not playing! Looking at Your character, activies you have done, achievements and read through the Grimoire when you feel like it.
And seriously! I have played many MMO's for many years now and never read much lore ingame either. I did it mostly outside the game on fansites and well made wikias. Especially with EverQuest 2, which I have played on and off for 10 years now.
http://kotaku.com/destiny-the-kotaku-review-1637735501
I"m just going to leave this here.
You could even go with a non gaming site:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/06/us-activision-destiny-idUSBREA4501F20140506
Both of these just show that Joe was correct to quote the $500M pricetag.
As to the rest of his points, you can also see (in non gaming news) that he is not alone:
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/09/22/is-activision-blizzards-500-million-destiny-a-15-b.aspx
As you can see here, an investment site is referencing the effect of their stock, and the feeback on the launch. Some of this is very similar to what Joe presented.
1) Read my edit to the post.
2) Er...what? A...meta game? Are you just making stuff up now? No. Just no. You're not even making sense now, and I refuse to encourage it. You didn't answer the argument at all, you're just spouting nonsense to detract from the truth: to learn more about Destiny's story and setting you must stop playing the game or divert your attention from it.
I usually dont like Angry Joe reviews, but I must say i agree with almost all of his points.
And if anyone cant see how having to buy DLC to get a complete game is just bad i dont even know what to tell them.
I bought the digital guardian edition for $90, comes with the 1st two DLC. I dont mind buying DLC at all, but not when it was most likely pulled from the original game only to be sold later. Judging by some of the old footage of Destiny this is almost assured.
I do like the game and dont regret buying it, I have had fun playing it, and will continue to do so off and on. But overall I just have to wonder what they were thinking with some of the choices and just lazy features.
Oh well, maybe the DLC I already paid for will complete the game.
And in an MMO you don't? You are reading lore ingame when being jumped by enemies?
No! You read when you move your character to a safe area first. So you basically interupting your gameplay no matter what.
Stating otherwise is just nit-picking. And the Smartphone is also a strawman argument! As unless you live in a poor country, it's almost impossible to not get a Smartphone these days.
Even low Budget android Phones can run the App and every other phone has at least a browser to Access the mobile Version of Bungie.net.
And who says they won't add the feature to read the Grimoire ingame at a later date, when enough people request it?
WoW, EQ2, LOTRO, etc and many other MMO's didn't launch with all features either! Lots were added through future patches, updates and expansions! People seem to have forgotten that.
That is the Whole problem! People act like this is a final game, like Halo, CoD or BF. You play it, you done and you just get a DLC or two and that's it. While they have been stating time and again that the game will be expanded upon through both FREE and Paid (DLC) updates.
Destiny also doesn't have a $15 dollar monthly Subscription fee either! So Yeah, they going to release a DLC once every 4 months or so, which comes down to roughly $5 - 6 bucks a month (PSN+ included).
They have a huge server infrastructure to maintain and an entire dev team to pay monthly salaries. Money has to come from somewhere.
And honestly, I rather pay a DLC once every 4 months, then dealing with all these stupid cash shop cash grab F2P MMO's today!
Come come now, Jero
You got a hell of a lot more content in the release version of those games then you do with Destiny.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
MMO's (or multiplayer online persistent world shooters in this case) are never complete. There's always some new patch, DLC or expansion, until the servers shut down.
It won't. It will continue the story, but not finish it, since it's a 10 year long project.
I'm not saying that it's the bestest game ever, since it has many flaws. But, it's certainly worth playing, as it's fun and it will only get better (hopefully).
Those games had 5-7 years of Development time and had both a full Box price and $15 dollar monthly Subscription fee.
Not to mention suffered a ton of bugs and issues at launch, that took months to sort out most of it, while some still exist today.
Game studios don't get that amount of time anymore! Two-Three years tops! That's it!
The Destiny contract was signed back in 2010. Then Bungie had to first create the New engine and Tools from scratch, before actual Development began.
So the actual Production of the game has not been more than two to two and half years. Which is in my opinion impressive what they managed to deliver. Especially with such Incredible polish!
It's one of the main reason why I enjoy the game so much and have a blast! It's such a breath of fresh air for once, to play a bug free / issue free game again! As in two weeks I have yet to run into a single bug or issue!
After having played Destiny now. I take QUALITY over QUANTITY any time!
But that's just my opinion.
There is a balance Jero... You can go too far either way.
More content = more polish, I guess you can concentrate on polish when you neglect content, which also gives you less to polish.
Development time blah blah blah. What matter's is what you get for what you pay for. Now you seem to be very well satisfied with what you recieved, but it seems like a huge number are not. Maybe when you have to spend so much effort defending something there might actually be a real world, significant, problem with the product.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Regardless of whether the game sucks or not, it doesn't suck as much as this guy. I get tired of overacting try hard youtube personalities. There's a reason why he's on youtube and not doing it professionally. Angry Joe just because he yells? This guy needs to take some classes on acting or something. He's not funny at all.
As far as Destiny goes, I've played beta for a while. Will it meet the same fate as Titanfall? Maybe, maybe not. Honestly it's too early to judge. You can't take this video seriously. Especially when it's a wasted 33 mins. I don't care if he's trying to be thorough. It doesn't require 33 mins. I see better reviewers do in less time. Let's wait a month or two for the game to settle.........and a better review from someone else.
Getting too old for this $&17!
Fact: You can not review what is not there. Shall we wait 10 years to review Destiny?
Fact: Grimoire is out of game. It is not in game. Do not say what if, because until it is, it isn't. There is no nitpicking to it, to learn more about Destiny I either have to
A) Go to Bungie's website on something other than my PS4 (Because internet browsing on PS4 lol). Log in to my PSN account. Find where the hell they keep the Grimoire. Scroll through, card by card.
While I'm doing this, I'm not playing the game. Most players do not like this, and it is very backwards from how a game should be evolving over time.
HILARIOUS fact: PS+ alone costs $10/month on a monthly subscription. All MMOs have huge discounts for buying a year+ subscription. Assuming you spend $60/year on DLC ($20 per, 3 a year) + $50 PS+ Yearly, that's on average around the same as a yearly subscription to most MMOs.
Fact: You're still trying to give Destiny a good rating based on what it might become, not on what it is. I can only conclude you're a fanboy that refuses to take Destiny for what it is now, and as such I see no further reason even arguing with you reasonably.
While we're taking the time to compare it to MMOs, let me try something fun. Note that I'm only using certain arguments because you decided to as well. The only reason I'm even comparing it to an MMO is because you're being woefully dull. This isn't my logical or real opinion, I'm just making a point here (I chose Rift because I played it at launch):
On release, Rift -- a game with a comparatively small budget to Destiny -- had twice as many dungeons (Strikes) that were more varied and included actual mechanics as opposed to Strikes' waves of enemies and a bulletspon...er, boss. Their dungeons did not re-traverse much/any area you'd already visited. It's classes were much more diverse than Destiny's, each had...what was it, 8?... Souls. It had more PvP match types, each massively more varied in comparison to Destiny's. It's maps also weren't god-awfully claustrophobia-inducing. It had an actual story where you, an Ascended, unraveled the mysteries around the past Telara and the goings-on of the world you now lived in. It had a raid at release, with twice as many bosses as the Vault of Glass. It also took way longer to clear than VoG did. At release, it had 2.5 times as many levels and twice as many zones. It's public events were much more frequent and much more diverse. It did not make you spend 2 minutes on a loading screen looking at a flying spaceship.
But somehow it's acceptable for an "MMOFPS hybrid" to leave out story, have very few strikes, have 4 zones, 3 same-ish classes, and not even include lore within the game itself.
Okay.