Trade runs introduce an interesting element to PvP where you can get some money when you kill those crafters
But then again I don't see how else would you do world PvP. Body looting is one way of giving rewards but it's a horrible horrible idea. Losing xp would just be frustrating. What's the point of people dying and losing xp.
Ultimately PvP should be fun. I played Diablo 2 for ages and 80% of my playtime was spent dueling. Do you know what I got from the whole dueling thing? Absolutely nothing. I have hundreds of hours spent pvp-ing in that game with 0 incentive/reward. It didn't feel pointless to me. As long as it is fun, it's cool.
It's like Dota 2, the other game which I have played for over a thousand hours. I spent so much time just killing people. Did I get any rewards? No. After every 30-60 my progress is wiped and it starts a new.
PvP doesn't need a point in my opinion.
I agree that trade runs are a good idea in theory. The problem is that I was involved in naval raids with 70+ people and multiple galleons essentially hunting down single clippers with very long periods of downtime hunting for ships. Using that many people to steal a few packs is hardly worth the effort.
Obviously the sea will get busier once more people have boats, but I still suspect that good naval battles will be few and far between, and people can despawn their boats or just avoid the sea all together if they know a huge force is around.
I agree with you entirely about PvP just being fun for its own sake. I played GW1 pvp for 7 years and never got a single piece of gold or gear for it. The gameplay and strategy was the draw, not the phat lewtz.
The difference is that in a moba or diablo 2 duel you are constantly fighting in a hopefully balanced and competitive environment. You are not zerging people / spawn camping and pressing 1 button as your entire contribution to a fight or sitting around in a boat doing absolutely nothing for 40+ minutes at a time with 70 other people.
Death in a moba has meaning in that you give the other person an advantage. You don't just respawn with no loss or gain. MMOs can't really do it this way thus open world pvp is meaningless and AA is no different. I don't have the perfect answer, I only have my experience in AA.
The OP isn't complaining that he rushed to level cap and that there is nothing to do. I know that people have reflexes to dismiss things that they don't want to hear, but that's not what he's saying.
He's reviewing the things that he's currently doing at endgame - and, by and large, finding them wanting.
When people post that they dislike the leveling experience they get told that the game "opens up" at high levels. If this was ESO you'd be talking about hundreds of horus to reach level cap - in that game the journey is the destination. Here the sandbox is the destination, and it sounds as if there are issues with it.
A better counter would be to describe what you enjoy at the endgame, and why it's fun.
Archeage is a game that heavily focuses on competitive open world PvP at the end even if you don't WANT to PvP. So if you DIDN'T rush to level 50 ASAP to get strong, you are SCREWED against anyone who did. So yea, if anything, it's the people who are "taking it slow" that are doing it wrong. They simply haven't reached the point where they'll end up being the sheep to the wolves yet, but they will reach that point eventually if they stick around. Archeage is NOT a themepark game meant to enjoy the PvE content slowly. It s a sandpark game with highly competitive PvP elements that, past a certain point, you won't be able to avoid, and if you didn't rush to be strong by that point, I hope you enjoy being fodder to those that did.
There's a reason why this is killing the game in Russia and Korea...
Fair enough OP, I do get where you are coming from on some of your points. Though a couple of things that you said seem a bit contradictory: You are right, it is quite possible that you will get zerged while questing. Last night in Hellswamp for me was literally Hell... in a swamp. Tons of lvl 50s roaming around dropping me (lvl 40 now) in two seconds. It sucks. But that is why there is little penalty for death in PVP, which was another point of yours. If there was a substantial penalty for PVP, all the zerging that takes place would end up really, really frustrating a majority of the leveling playerbase.
Its really unfortunate that you don't like crafting and the meticulous nature of the economics of the game, since its meant to play such an integral part in the motivation for players. I am a total bean counter, so this really appeals to me.
Only time will tell how many players agree with your sentiments once more of the playerbase reaches level cap. As for me, i still have lots to look forward to: need to find a plot for my farmhouse and get all the mats to build it, a few guildies are banding together to buy a galleon, and once we all hit 50 we're going pirate (which is another thing you said was meh.) What is your guild setup like? Is it one of those mass-invite, 500-man whales of a guild, or a smaller team that actively communicates. I know that made a big difference for me
I couldn't disagree more with this. The elitism of "pre-wow" players just pisses me off to no end. WOW did not have a focus on endgame when it launched. A lot of people were exploring the world and enjoying the levelling experience. Cause you know what? The levelling experience in WoW was enjoyable unlike that horrible garbage called EQ which had the most mind-numbing levelling experience. Even Lineage 2 was better.
Listen, I have no issue with WoW. I played the game for 8 1/2 years and it will always have a special place in my gaming heart.
With that said, Vanilla WoW questing was fun? Really, needing 15 boar meat that has a 25% drop rate is fun? I played WoW the first 2 months it was out and hated the game because it was so grindy, I came back about a year later and it was a completely different experience. They increased drop rates, shortened the number of kills needed for quests. They also had introduced BGs, before that all PvP was basically open world zerg PvP. Let's not forget that you needed insane amounts of XP to level and crafting leveled extremely slow.
My point here is that while I too am guilty of slapping on the old nostalgia goggles, lets not forget vanilla wow was grindy and unrefined too.
I disagree. The slower pace of vanilla WoW's levels was much better, at least in my opinion. And on the subject of BG's, my best fun moments in WoW were all Pre-BG and those impromptu skirmishes around x-roads that we used to get, when those Alliance muppets would turn up and get their arses handed to them, or the fights at Tarren Mill.
Let's not forget that vanilla WoW was a much better game than it is now.
Good review Nihilist and it's unfortunate some people don't see the accuracy of your points. It's ok to differ in opinion but it's a whole different thing to say a statement is wrong when someone has clearly been there and done it. I think it's spot on. Open world, open PVP, sandbox MMOs can be great. Archeage is not. No reason for me to add more negativity to the discussion by going in to detail though. I hope it improves for the people that enjoy it or for those still trying to enjoy it.
Fair enough OP, I do get where you are coming from on some of your points. Though a couple of things that you said seem a bit contradictory: You are right, it is quite possible that you will get zerged while questing. Last night in Hellswamp for me was literally Hell... in a swamp. Tons of lvl 50s roaming around dropping me (lvl 40 now) in two seconds. It sucks. But that is why there is little penalty for death in PVP, which was another point of yours. If there was a substantial penalty for PVP, all the zerging that takes place would end up really, really frustrating a majority of the leveling playerbase.
Its really unfortunate that you don't like crafting and the meticulous nature of the economics of the game, since its meant to play such an integral part in the motivation for players. I am a total bean counter, so this really appeals to me.
Only time will tell how many players agree with your sentiments once more of the playerbase reaches level cap. As for me, i still have lots to look forward to: need to find a plot for my farmhouse and get all the mats to build it, a few guildies are banding together to buy a galleon, and once we all hit 50 we're going pirate (which is another thing you said was meh.) What is your guild setup like? Is it one of those mass-invite, 500-man whales of a guild, or a smaller team that actively communicates. I know that made a big difference for me
I agree that a harsh death penalty will kill the game for more casual players, but zero death penalty just makes the pvp meaningless. In large scale fights I have spawn camped people and been spawn camped myself, you realize its all pointless after a certain amount of time.
I agree the crafting is deep and rewarding if you have the stomach for all the grinding or have help from your guild. Its the most well designed part of the game aside from the RNG components which I doubt you have experienced.
Your final paragraph is where you will understand my points when you get to them. Without a large guild with many 50s you are going to have a hard time doing things like getting a large farm, getting your hasla weapon and doing naval combat.
Your small group of friends may work together and eventually get a galleon, but you will be easy fodder to large hardcore guilds that have huge fleets and a zerg of players outfitted with GHA and crafted gear. All your hardwork will be easy pickings and a mild amusment for people who literally sail around for hours looking for easy prey.
The people on small casual guilds just haven't reach the harsh wall that is waiting for them.
Fair enough OP, I do get where you are coming from on some of your points. Though a couple of things that you said seem a bit contradictory: You are right, it is quite possible that you will get zerged while questing. Last night in Hellswamp for me was literally Hell... in a swamp. Tons of lvl 50s roaming around dropping me (lvl 40 now) in two seconds. It sucks. But that is why there is little penalty for death in PVP, which was another point of yours. If there was a substantial penalty for PVP, all the zerging that takes place would end up really, really frustrating a majority of the leveling playerbase.
Its really unfortunate that you don't like crafting and the meticulous nature of the economics of the game, since its meant to play such an integral part in the motivation for players. I am a total bean counter, so this really appeals to me.
Only time will tell how many players agree with your sentiments once more of the playerbase reaches level cap. As for me, i still have lots to look forward to: need to find a plot for my farmhouse and get all the mats to build it, a few guildies are banding together to buy a galleon, and once we all hit 50 we're going pirate (which is another thing you said was meh.) What is your guild setup like? Is it one of those mass-invite, 500-man whales of a guild, or a smaller team that actively communicates. I know that made a big difference for me
.....
Your final paragraph is where you will understand my points when you get to them. Without a large guild with many 50s you are going to have a hard time doing things like getting a large farm, getting your hasla weapon and doing naval combat.
Meh. I soloed to 50 in Alpha and got a large farm, 2 aquafarms and a thatched farm house in a PVP zone.
I didn't even have stealth.
Your small group of friends may work together and eventually get a galleon, but you will be easy fodder to large hardcore guilds that have huge fleets and a zerg of players outfitted with GHA and crafted gear. All your hardwork will be easy pickings and a mild amusment for people who literally sail around for hours looking for easy prey.
The people on small casual guilds just haven't reach the harsh wall that is waiting for them.
Sure, size absolutely matters.
But generally speaking, archeage open world PVP is about cat and mouse. The big guild can't be everywhere at all times.
And when the fight IS localized to one spot (ie, castle sieges,) there's a numbers cap to ensure a good fight.
Everyone on Alpha remembers Oran'Thul losing their castle to ForestCrow + friends.
If anything, the game will probably get WORSE for most people when most people reach the cap (but potentially better for the ones already there. More prey, after all).
This is, after all, an open-world PvP game that's both gear-based and zerg-based. How fun do you think it's going to be for you and your small group of friends once you finally DO reach level 50 and thus, the majority of the gameplay takes place in places where you'll have to deal with blood-hungry people who got there before you (and thus likely are better geared than you) and certainly in much larger numbers than you and your small group of friends?
Again, this is what happened in Russia and Korea and I see no reason to believe this won't be the same case here.
Fair enough OP, I do get where you are coming from on some of your points. Though a couple of things that you said seem a bit contradictory: You are right, it is quite possible that you will get zerged while questing. Last night in Hellswamp for me was literally Hell... in a swamp. Tons of lvl 50s roaming around dropping me (lvl 40 now) in two seconds. It sucks. But that is why there is little penalty for death in PVP, which was another point of yours. If there was a substantial penalty for PVP, all the zerging that takes place would end up really, really frustrating a majority of the leveling playerbase.
Its really unfortunate that you don't like crafting and the meticulous nature of the economics of the game, since its meant to play such an integral part in the motivation for players. I am a total bean counter, so this really appeals to me.
Only time will tell how many players agree with your sentiments once more of the playerbase reaches level cap. As for me, i still have lots to look forward to: need to find a plot for my farmhouse and get all the mats to build it, a few guildies are banding together to buy a galleon, and once we all hit 50 we're going pirate (which is another thing you said was meh.) What is your guild setup like? Is it one of those mass-invite, 500-man whales of a guild, or a smaller team that actively communicates. I know that made a big difference for me
.....
Your final paragraph is where you will understand my points when you get to them. Without a large guild with many 50s you are going to have a hard time doing things like getting a large farm, getting your hasla weapon and doing naval combat.
Meh. I soloed to 50 in Alpha and got a large farm, 2 aquafarms and a thatched farm house in a PVP zone.
I didn't even have stealth.
Your small group of friends may work together and eventually get a galleon, but you will be easy fodder to large hardcore guilds that have huge fleets and a zerg of players outfitted with GHA and crafted gear. All your hardwork will be easy pickings and a mild amusment for people who literally sail around for hours looking for easy prey.
The people on small casual guilds just haven't reach the harsh wall that is waiting for them.
Sure, size absolutely matters.
But generally speaking, archeage open world PVP is about cat and mouse. The big guild can't be everywhere at all times.
And when the fight IS localized to one spot (ie, castle sieges,) there's a numbers cap to ensure a good fight.
Everyone on Alpha remembers Oran'Thul losing their castle to ForestCrow + friends.
The large guild can't be everywhere at all times, but it can be in ENOUGH places at all times (enough to make everyone elses' lives a huge pain in the butt), if Archeage "end-game" in other regions is any indication.
But generally speaking, archeage open world PVP is about cat and mouse. The big guild can't be everywhere at all times.
And when the fight IS localized to one spot (ie, castle sieges,) there's a numbers cap to ensure a good fight.
Everyone on Alpha remembers Oran'Thul losing their castle to ForestCrow + friends.
Cool so as a casual player in a small guild you can look forward to being fodder that gets dominated in the open world. Maybe you enjoy sneaking around and gathering, I know I don't. And again nowhere am I saying there is nothing to do in the game. The activities that are available, even to a large dominating guild, are grindy and boring.
End game will probably be more than just a raid force waiting around to gank the lone level 20s trying to complete their scarecrow quests. Yeah that would be boring.
"Again it is fun at first, but the seas are fairly empty at this point."
of course it is only gold sellers and botters are in the game in mass amounts and patrons are ganking and f2p'ers and
the queues are so bad at times most want to play that you wont see any large fleets caus eno one can get the stuff tomake those ships and no one new will want to pay patron status cause they see these awful queues
"Again it is fun at first, but the seas are fairly empty at this point."
of course it is only gold sellers and botters are in the game in mass amounts and patrons are ganking and f2p'ers and
the queues are so bad at times most want to play that you wont see any large fleets caus eno one can get the stuff tomake those ships and no one new will want to pay patron status cause they see these awful queues
"No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded." - Yogi Berra
Now take a break for a week or two and come back where the rest of the game starts getting ships.
If you do this then you will have oceans filled with players running back and fourth in trade ships with lots of trade packs and other ships protecting them. There will be a real sense of battle when your armada spots the other and the ships position for engagement.
We (most of the players in ArcheAge) are not to the level yet to engage you and your guild.
Also keep in mind that similar level players can fight well without the very top gears when using proper group strategies. So your thought of everyone getting killed easily once they hit 50 due to not being geared is a bit incorrect unless you are talking 1v1.
Also when the North Continent launches and people start to become pirates we will see even more interesting pvp dynamics.
It's my honest opinion that you racing to the finish line first and then wondering why there was mass scale pvp happening is a bit like showing up to a party an hour before it is suppose to begin and wondering why there are no people to interact with.
Alternatively to taking a break....build up your fortune in guilda stars, wood, iron, stone and other things so that once the north does open you will be ready to lay claim to a castle area.
The OP isn't complaining that he rushed to level cap and that there is nothing to do. I know that people have reflexes to dismiss things that they don't want to hear, but that's not what he's saying.
He's reviewing the things that he's currently doing at endgame - and, by and large, finding them wanting.
When people post that they dislike the leveling experience they get told that the game "opens up" at high levels. If this was ESO you'd be talking about hundreds of horus to reach level cap - in that game the journey is the destination. Here the sandbox is the destination, and it sounds as if there are issues with it.
A better counter would be to describe what you enjoy at the endgame, and why it's fun.
Yea well here's the thing.
The issues are the OP's and not the game. He finds elements of endgame grindy and boring? Once again you will have to point out the existing MMO that doesn't have elements of grinding, to me.
As for countering with things that people enjoy, well those people are all in the game enjoying them and not wasting time on a forum complaining about grinds and boring stuff.
OP prefers PS2. Instant gratification. That is what he should be playing.
But of course that game has issues also.
MMO burnout.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Now take a break for a week or two and come back where the rest of the game starts getting ships.
If you do this then you will have oceans filled with players running back and fourth in trade ships with lots of trade packs and other ships protecting them. There will be a real sense of battle when your armada spots the other and the ships position for engagement.
We (most of the players in ArcheAge) are not to the level yet to engage you and your guild.
Also keep in mind that similar level players can fight well without the very top gears when using proper group strategies. So your thought of everyone getting killed easily once they hit 50 due to not being geared is a bit incorrect unless you are talking 1v1.
Also when the North Continent launches and people start to become pirates we will see even more interesting pvp dynamics.
It's my honest opinion that you racing to the finish line first and then wondering why there was mass scale pvp happening is a bit like showing up to a party an hour before it is suppose to begin and wondering why there are no people to interact with.
Alternatively to taking a break....build up your fortune in guilda stars, wood, iron, stone and other things so that once the north does open you will be ready to lay claim to a castle area.
I did state that the seas will get busier when more people get ships, but that still doesn't address the issue of people despawning their boats when they see trouble or simply dodging big battles which is very common in many games.
Aside from the seas, there is still the entire open world pvp. It has plenty of action, but as I pointed out it is utterly pointless since there is zero gain or loss. You kill each other, respawn 10 feet away, and do so over and over until until you get bored and leave. AA is really no different than any other zerg based MMO with pointless open world pvp.
Your comment about 'racing to the finish line' seems very misplaced in AA. The entire point of the game is to get resources in order to craft better gear / consumables / housing / navy. If you play the game casually you will not be able to enjoy the larger scale pvp content as much since you will not be competitive. Also, for some reason people seem to think hardcore players don't understand strategy which is totally false. They have the best organization, best gear and best strats.
The issues are the OP's and not the game. He finds elements of endgame grindy and boring? Once again you will have to point out the existing MMO that doesn't have elements of grinding, to me.
As for countering with things that people enjoy, well those people are all in the game enjoying them and not wasting time on a forum complaining about grinds and boring stuff.
OP prefers PS2. Instant gratification. That is what he should be playing.
But of course that game has issues also.
MMO burnout.
Farming mobs for days in Hasla is fun? You realize most MMOs have modernized to the point where everyone gets credit for hitting a mob.
Running GHA 1000 times is fun? AA supposedly is not a PVE focused game, but the only place to reliably get gear outside of RNG crafting is an instanced dungeon. This is also basically required to compete in pvp. Most games have multiple ways to get at least starter gear at level cap, not just 1 small dungeon.
Sitting in a galleon with 50 people for an hour randomly killing 1 guy on a clipper is gripping vehicle based combat? Spawn camping is innovative world pvp?
You are just doing what everyone else does which is 'lalalala you are doing it wrong'. I would love for you to address the specific endgame activities in AA and explain how that are any more compelling than what is offered in other games.
What you call instant gratification, I call fun content or good value per hour spent gaming. Unlike most launch week fanboys I am a rational consumer of MMOs.
At least in a game like PS2 I can be guaranteed competition and big battles, but I only brought it up as an example of better value for large scale pvp because someone asked. I am in no way saying people should drop AA for it as its obviously different genre.
Farming mobs for days in Hasla is fun? You realize most MMOs have modernized to the point where everyone gets credit for hitting a mob.
That is not modernize, its just a diferent way to implement features in-game. GW2 did that, everthing was implemented in a way that any player couldnt do anything that interfear with others in any way like sharing nodes and indidual loot. Well, i didnt like it, i feel i was alone in a game full of players specters around me. Im not saying its wrong, im saying i myself didnt like.
If i pick up a node and the node disapear to everyone helps the immersion of the game because what i did reflect on others, if i pick a node that is there only for me is a strange disconnect feeling from world and other players.
So no, again, is not modernize, its just diferent and each one will find better or worse based on is opinion.
The node thing in GW2 is a classic case of great compromise, on the bad side (I don't see it but I respect a decent opinion) there is the impression that nodes are personalised and not part of the world, but on the positive side you just lose all obnoxious Nasty behaviour yoh see in other games, and that has a huge impact o. Community as we have seen historically.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom The node thing in GW2 is a classic case of great compromise, on the bad side (I don't see it but I respect a decent opinion) there is the impression that nodes are personalised and not part of the world, but on the positive side you just lose all obnoxious Nasty behaviour yoh see in other games, and that has a huge impact o. Community as we have seen historically.
Everthing in life has allways 2 sides, and i cant disagree with you about the positive one in this example.
I just dont agree with modernize word because this way means that every game for now on will be that way.
Continue this example, in AA there isnt node sharing but the respaw takes a few seconds, maybe 1min max, and noone can mine forever because of LP system. So in the end things work in some balance way.
Note: i just mentioned GW2 because remember of this example, had alot of fun leveling there during a few weeks, didnt stay because is not what im looking in a mmorpg, but i confes is a excelent game.
It's a matter of people on forums trying to 'win'. If is fair to say that both gw2 and archage have targeted the shared node issue and both came up with decent solutions, thus is healthy evolution.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
That is not modernize, its just a diferent way to implement features in-game. GW2 did that, everthing was implemented in a way that any player couldnt do anything that interfear with others in any way like sharing nodes and indidual loot. Well, i didnt like it, i feel i was alone in a game full of players specters around me. Im not saying its wrong, im saying i myself didnt like.
If i pick up a node and the node disapear to everyone helps the immersion of the game because what i did reflect on others, if i pick a node that is there only for me is a strange disconnect feeling from world and other players.
So no, again, is not modernize, its just diferent and each one will find better or worse based on is opinion.
You are missing the point. In hasla there are dozens if not hundreds of players all trying to tag a small number of mobs in an extremely small area. There is nothing compelling or challenging, it is simply a race to tag mobs that lasts days. Having more than one person looking for the same token makes the process extremely inefficient.
Its possibly the most poorly designed way to get mandatory starter gear at 50 that I have ever seen in an mmo.
I have no idea why mob sharing makes you 'feel alone'. Wouldn't having anybody who walks by benefit from helping you make players more willing to work together? In AA players usually completely ignore each other since there is zero reason to interact outside of PvP.
If you don't like mob sharing, at least make a larger zone with way more mobs that respawn much faster.
Originally posted by fivoroth World PvP never felt like a zerg to me. Actually the majority of the world PvP I experienced as something like 10-15 people vs 10-15 people or even smaller engagements. It certainly didn't feel zergy the way it did in GW2 where all my WvWvW experience was 1 billion vs 1 billion, half of which invisible, zerg fest.
Halcyona war in particular is very reminiscent of GW2 and is usually a zerg of hundreds steamrolling the other side at least on my server. Except unlike GW2 the map is just one big tunnel with a base on either end. TBH its a lot like Illum was in SWTOR expect the map ends.
Of course smaller scale pvp exists, but like I said its largely pointless. Death is only a minor set-back so the open world general pvp is just as meaningless here as it was in any other similar style game like Age of Conan pvp servers.
I have done open world with a raid of 60+ and all we did was clear out Hasla, spawn camp for a bit and then leave.
I'm guessing there is no point to open world PvP without looting and sieges for territory control (are they in yet?). And PvP for PvP's sake isn't that interesting to a large portion of the population. There is no stopping zerging when you can't make anyone lose anything. Do you lose the ships? There has to be risk vs reward at some point. I must be missing it.
Comments
I agree that trade runs are a good idea in theory. The problem is that I was involved in naval raids with 70+ people and multiple galleons essentially hunting down single clippers with very long periods of downtime hunting for ships. Using that many people to steal a few packs is hardly worth the effort.
Obviously the sea will get busier once more people have boats, but I still suspect that good naval battles will be few and far between, and people can despawn their boats or just avoid the sea all together if they know a huge force is around.
I agree with you entirely about PvP just being fun for its own sake. I played GW1 pvp for 7 years and never got a single piece of gold or gear for it. The gameplay and strategy was the draw, not the phat lewtz.
The difference is that in a moba or diablo 2 duel you are constantly fighting in a hopefully balanced and competitive environment. You are not zerging people / spawn camping and pressing 1 button as your entire contribution to a fight or sitting around in a boat doing absolutely nothing for 40+ minutes at a time with 70 other people.
Death in a moba has meaning in that you give the other person an advantage. You don't just respawn with no loss or gain. MMOs can't really do it this way thus open world pvp is meaningless and AA is no different. I don't have the perfect answer, I only have my experience in AA.
The OP isn't complaining that he rushed to level cap and that there is nothing to do. I know that people have reflexes to dismiss things that they don't want to hear, but that's not what he's saying.
He's reviewing the things that he's currently doing at endgame - and, by and large, finding them wanting.
When people post that they dislike the leveling experience they get told that the game "opens up" at high levels. If this was ESO you'd be talking about hundreds of horus to reach level cap - in that game the journey is the destination. Here the sandbox is the destination, and it sounds as if there are issues with it.
A better counter would be to describe what you enjoy at the endgame, and why it's fun.
Archeage is a game that heavily focuses on competitive open world PvP at the end even if you don't WANT to PvP. So if you DIDN'T rush to level 50 ASAP to get strong, you are SCREWED against anyone who did. So yea, if anything, it's the people who are "taking it slow" that are doing it wrong. They simply haven't reached the point where they'll end up being the sheep to the wolves yet, but they will reach that point eventually if they stick around. Archeage is NOT a themepark game meant to enjoy the PvE content slowly. It s a sandpark game with highly competitive PvP elements that, past a certain point, you won't be able to avoid, and if you didn't rush to be strong by that point, I hope you enjoy being fodder to those that did.
There's a reason why this is killing the game in Russia and Korea...
Fair enough OP, I do get where you are coming from on some of your points. Though a couple of things that you said seem a bit contradictory: You are right, it is quite possible that you will get zerged while questing. Last night in Hellswamp for me was literally Hell... in a swamp. Tons of lvl 50s roaming around dropping me (lvl 40 now) in two seconds. It sucks. But that is why there is little penalty for death in PVP, which was another point of yours. If there was a substantial penalty for PVP, all the zerging that takes place would end up really, really frustrating a majority of the leveling playerbase.
Its really unfortunate that you don't like crafting and the meticulous nature of the economics of the game, since its meant to play such an integral part in the motivation for players. I am a total bean counter, so this really appeals to me.
Only time will tell how many players agree with your sentiments once more of the playerbase reaches level cap. As for me, i still have lots to look forward to: need to find a plot for my farmhouse and get all the mats to build it, a few guildies are banding together to buy a galleon, and once we all hit 50 we're going pirate (which is another thing you said was meh.) What is your guild setup like? Is it one of those mass-invite, 500-man whales of a guild, or a smaller team that actively communicates. I know that made a big difference for me
I disagree. The slower pace of vanilla WoW's levels was much better, at least in my opinion. And on the subject of BG's, my best fun moments in WoW were all Pre-BG and those impromptu skirmishes around x-roads that we used to get, when those Alliance muppets would turn up and get their arses handed to them, or the fights at Tarren Mill.
Let's not forget that vanilla WoW was a much better game than it is now.
I agree that a harsh death penalty will kill the game for more casual players, but zero death penalty just makes the pvp meaningless. In large scale fights I have spawn camped people and been spawn camped myself, you realize its all pointless after a certain amount of time.
I agree the crafting is deep and rewarding if you have the stomach for all the grinding or have help from your guild. Its the most well designed part of the game aside from the RNG components which I doubt you have experienced.
Your final paragraph is where you will understand my points when you get to them. Without a large guild with many 50s you are going to have a hard time doing things like getting a large farm, getting your hasla weapon and doing naval combat.
Your small group of friends may work together and eventually get a galleon, but you will be easy fodder to large hardcore guilds that have huge fleets and a zerg of players outfitted with GHA and crafted gear. All your hardwork will be easy pickings and a mild amusment for people who literally sail around for hours looking for easy prey.
The people on small casual guilds just haven't reach the harsh wall that is waiting for them.
Nihilist...
Meh. I soloed to 50 in Alpha and got a large farm, 2 aquafarms and a thatched farm house in a PVP zone.
I didn't even have stealth.
Sure, size absolutely matters.
But generally speaking, archeage open world PVP is about cat and mouse. The big guild can't be everywhere at all times.
And when the fight IS localized to one spot (ie, castle sieges,) there's a numbers cap to ensure a good fight.
Everyone on Alpha remembers Oran'Thul losing their castle to ForestCrow + friends.
If anything, the game will probably get WORSE for most people when most people reach the cap (but potentially better for the ones already there. More prey, after all).
This is, after all, an open-world PvP game that's both gear-based and zerg-based. How fun do you think it's going to be for you and your small group of friends once you finally DO reach level 50 and thus, the majority of the gameplay takes place in places where you'll have to deal with blood-hungry people who got there before you (and thus likely are better geared than you) and certainly in much larger numbers than you and your small group of friends?
Again, this is what happened in Russia and Korea and I see no reason to believe this won't be the same case here.
The large guild can't be everywhere at all times, but it can be in ENOUGH places at all times (enough to make everyone elses' lives a huge pain in the butt), if Archeage "end-game" in other regions is any indication.
Cool so as a casual player in a small guild you can look forward to being fodder that gets dominated in the open world. Maybe you enjoy sneaking around and gathering, I know I don't. And again nowhere am I saying there is nothing to do in the game. The activities that are available, even to a large dominating guild, are grindy and boring.
"Again it is fun at first, but the seas are fairly empty at this point."
of course it is only gold sellers and botters are in the game in mass amounts and patrons are ganking and f2p'ers and
the queues are so bad at times most want to play that you wont see any large fleets caus eno one can get the stuff tomake those ships and no one new will want to pay patron status cause they see these awful queues
"No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded." - Yogi Berra
This will maybe help OP a bit.....
OP you are hardcore and have your reasons.....
Now take a break for a week or two and come back where the rest of the game starts getting ships.
If you do this then you will have oceans filled with players running back and fourth in trade ships with lots of trade packs and other ships protecting them. There will be a real sense of battle when your armada spots the other and the ships position for engagement.
We (most of the players in ArcheAge) are not to the level yet to engage you and your guild.
Also keep in mind that similar level players can fight well without the very top gears when using proper group strategies. So your thought of everyone getting killed easily once they hit 50 due to not being geared is a bit incorrect unless you are talking 1v1.
Also when the North Continent launches and people start to become pirates we will see even more interesting pvp dynamics.
It's my honest opinion that you racing to the finish line first and then wondering why there was mass scale pvp happening is a bit like showing up to a party an hour before it is suppose to begin and wondering why there are no people to interact with.
Alternatively to taking a break....build up your fortune in guilda stars, wood, iron, stone and other things so that once the north does open you will be ready to lay claim to a castle area.
Yea well here's the thing.
The issues are the OP's and not the game. He finds elements of endgame grindy and boring? Once again you will have to point out the existing MMO that doesn't have elements of grinding, to me.
As for countering with things that people enjoy, well those people are all in the game enjoying them and not wasting time on a forum complaining about grinds and boring stuff.
OP prefers PS2. Instant gratification. That is what he should be playing.
But of course that game has issues also.
MMO burnout.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
I did state that the seas will get busier when more people get ships, but that still doesn't address the issue of people despawning their boats when they see trouble or simply dodging big battles which is very common in many games.
Aside from the seas, there is still the entire open world pvp. It has plenty of action, but as I pointed out it is utterly pointless since there is zero gain or loss. You kill each other, respawn 10 feet away, and do so over and over until until you get bored and leave. AA is really no different than any other zerg based MMO with pointless open world pvp.
Your comment about 'racing to the finish line' seems very misplaced in AA. The entire point of the game is to get resources in order to craft better gear / consumables / housing / navy. If you play the game casually you will not be able to enjoy the larger scale pvp content as much since you will not be competitive. Also, for some reason people seem to think hardcore players don't understand strategy which is totally false. They have the best organization, best gear and best strats.
Farming mobs for days in Hasla is fun? You realize most MMOs have modernized to the point where everyone gets credit for hitting a mob.
Running GHA 1000 times is fun? AA supposedly is not a PVE focused game, but the only place to reliably get gear outside of RNG crafting is an instanced dungeon. This is also basically required to compete in pvp. Most games have multiple ways to get at least starter gear at level cap, not just 1 small dungeon.
Sitting in a galleon with 50 people for an hour randomly killing 1 guy on a clipper is gripping vehicle based combat? Spawn camping is innovative world pvp?
You are just doing what everyone else does which is 'lalalala you are doing it wrong'. I would love for you to address the specific endgame activities in AA and explain how that are any more compelling than what is offered in other games.
What you call instant gratification, I call fun content or good value per hour spent gaming. Unlike most launch week fanboys I am a rational consumer of MMOs.
At least in a game like PS2 I can be guaranteed competition and big battles, but I only brought it up as an example of better value for large scale pvp because someone asked. I am in no way saying people should drop AA for it as its obviously different genre.
That is not modernize, its just a diferent way to implement features in-game. GW2 did that, everthing was implemented in a way that any player couldnt do anything that interfear with others in any way like sharing nodes and indidual loot. Well, i didnt like it, i feel i was alone in a game full of players specters around me. Im not saying its wrong, im saying i myself didnt like.
If i pick up a node and the node disapear to everyone helps the immersion of the game because what i did reflect on others, if i pick a node that is there only for me is a strange disconnect feeling from world and other players.
So no, again, is not modernize, its just diferent and each one will find better or worse based on is opinion.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Everthing in life has allways 2 sides, and i cant disagree with you about the positive one in this example.
I just dont agree with modernize word because this way means that every game for now on will be that way.
Continue this example, in AA there isnt node sharing but the respaw takes a few seconds, maybe 1min max, and noone can mine forever because of LP system. So in the end things work in some balance way.
Note: i just mentioned GW2 because remember of this example, had alot of fun leveling there during a few weeks, didnt stay because is not what im looking in a mmorpg, but i confes is a excelent game.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
You are missing the point. In hasla there are dozens if not hundreds of players all trying to tag a small number of mobs in an extremely small area. There is nothing compelling or challenging, it is simply a race to tag mobs that lasts days. Having more than one person looking for the same token makes the process extremely inefficient.
Its possibly the most poorly designed way to get mandatory starter gear at 50 that I have ever seen in an mmo.
I have no idea why mob sharing makes you 'feel alone'. Wouldn't having anybody who walks by benefit from helping you make players more willing to work together? In AA players usually completely ignore each other since there is zero reason to interact outside of PvP.
If you don't like mob sharing, at least make a larger zone with way more mobs that respawn much faster.
I'm guessing there is no point to open world PvP without looting and sieges for territory control (are they in yet?). And PvP for PvP's sake isn't that interesting to a large portion of the population. There is no stopping zerging when you can't make anyone lose anything. Do you lose the ships? There has to be risk vs reward at some point. I must be missing it.