Stop analyzing the industry and just play... you talk about not wanting a game to be a job but you certainly spend a great deal of time worrying about its' solvency. Apparently you want it to be a job because you keep turning it into one. Have to check the stock analysts report, the server populations, quarterly sales reports, et al before you can consider a game worthy of playing. What an utter waste of time.
I would be playing MMO's rather than ranting about them if they hadn't devolved over the years and become "an utter waste of time"....now I talk about MMO's because I wish I had a good one to play...I think the OP might feel the same.
I'm concerned for the genre. While it is nice that some smaller companies will be able to take risks and give us some damn freedom. They are not going to be able to put in content at a reasonable rate. I'm seeing it now with Darkfall. Great game, that I've played for a year plus, that offers a lot of freedom and treats people like adults. But the devs are having a tough time adding more content. Part of their problem may be that they are not doing the carrot on a stick gear chase, so they are having a bit of a tough time coming up with something to keep people working towards.
I'm afraid massive open world MMOs with lots of content that actually take some time are going away for good. Brainless games like D3 that require a tenth of the dev time that WoW or EQ required. I'm thinking rather than bitching at the Darkfall UW or Archeage devs I should be commending them on making large seamless worlds, as they may be coming to an end.
Fortunately... single player RPG's are going the massive seamless open world route. Which is a good thing for MMORPG's in the long run.
I have no doubt that one day an absolutely huge, open world, single server MMORPG will knock everyone's socks off. The tech just isn't here yet.
Originally posted by mayito7777 WoW-II is way overdue. We need a new version of the game and millions of players will leap of joy and hundreds of developers will scream on panic and despair.
WoW2 will fail. This is what Blizzard pretty much figured out. WoW was an anomaly. They may give it a shot say around 2020 when WoW really starts to flag, but WoW was an attempt at doing what was already done across games better. You just can't do that as well right now as there are not enough new ideas out there to coopt. The money is NEVER in the original idea. The good idea game always ends up niche. It is the game that takes that football and charges with it that rakes in the money.
Did anyone think that Blizzard cancelled Titan for exactly the reason they gave? That it wasnt good.
Very possible. It happens that way a lot more often than most gamers realize.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The genre itself sucks and it's flawed. MMOs are designed around players playing for ages. But that's simply not possible as content is finite. You will run out of content to do. The only way to stop players from finishing the content is to introduce gated content and insane time sinks. MMOs pre-WoW placed their bet on insane time sinks. That clearly didn't work as all those games were only niche games. All MMOs before WoW were nothing. Very few players played them in the grand scheme of things.
Players nowadays will not accept such time sinks. They have probably become smarter. So yeah, you can't play an MMO forever.
If Blizzard can't make another blockbuster MMO, then I don't think anyone else can.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Did anyone think that just maybe this has nothing to do with the future prospects of AAA MMOs, or the rise in popularity of MOBAs or any of that crap?
Did anyone think that Blizzard cancelled Titan for exactly the reason they gave? That it wasnt good.
Because Im pretty sure we all know that Blizzard is not afraid to cancel a game if they feel it does not meet their standards.
Warcraft: Lord of the Clans, StarCraft Ghost, and the original Diablo 3 were all cancelled well into development.
Heck, the only reason WoW exists is because they were making a sci-fi RTS, thought it sucked so they cancelled it. Then when they were deciding what to do next Blizzard thought about giving MMOs a try.
So, Blizzard is not like other developers and only cancel games based on cost projections or market constraints. Blizzard will cancel games if they feel they just arent good enough and have done it numerous times.
So, no one thought of that? Yeah, didnt think so. Everyone is too busy trying to be an armchair analyst.
The only reason WoW is around is because of the warhammer universe
Are the devs even gamers? The way they build games you begin to wonder. What I see is big corps wanting to milk the consumer cows. No one has a clue what gamers really want. Did the thought ever occur to them to come here and ask us first what we want in an mmo?
I am sure Blizzard realize they can sell anything,the problem is that it would only shift players from Wow over to Titan so not worth the risk of disrupting their money maker.Imo it would cause a rift,exactly what happened when SOE went from EQ1>EQ2.
The entire genre is flooded,too many copy cat linear questing games.The smart devs would focus on the open freedom type design ,there is less competition there.There are also other game areas that devs should focus on that have been ignored or done very cheaply,example crafting,housing and more importantly the GROUPING aspect,i have seen NOBODY since FFXI treat a mmo with good grouping mechanics.
Blizzard is not known for being too creative,they take old ideas and don't even improve them,definitely not with tech or graphics.If Blizzard is going to create a new high end game with tech and graphics it definitely cannot compete with Wow because shifting profits from one game to another does not increase revenue.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Are the devs even gamers? The way they build games you begin to wonder.
We are still talking about the developers of Diablo, Starcraft, World of Warcraft and Hearthstone, right?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
" 3. Now the fun begins. The game developers start reading the forums. (And they do, as most game developers are gamers too). And the promises start to surface. Our game will have this, and our system will do this. We will have unlimited end game and horizontal game content, so you will never get bored with our new game. We see that you do not like this feature, ( because a vocal percentage of you voiced it in the forums), so we are scrapping this system, and going with this one, based on the " customer feedback".
4. So now we see the game that was first announced, is a shadow of what was originally. The developers have " listened" to their "majority of fans" and now we have this new and "adjusted" game for you. But obviously they will have to rush this into the game now, since they are going over budget, and are moving past the games scheduled deadlines. These new game adjustments are added in a rushed format, which creates many unforeseen bugs. Now we have a different game that was originally promised to us. "
And this is the part where all goes wrong.
Does doctors or nurses ask patient how they want to be treated? Or car mechanics at their shop how their client wants to have their cars fixed?
Professional game designers will know how to design a game that's fun to play. Everything can go miserably wrong when they start to ask opinions of producers and consumers. They are not experts for designing games, designers are.
Are the devs even gamers? The way they build games you begin to wonder. What I see is big corps wanting to milk the consumer cows. No one has a clue what gamers really want. Did the thought ever occur to them to come here and ask us first what we want in an mmo?
Really?
D3 sold 20M boxes ... so at least Blizz knows what 20M gamers want.
Hearthstone has 20M players and making tons of money ... so Blizz knows what that 20M gamers want.
How copies did SC2 sell?
I don't think they need to ask anyone based on their track record. In fact, I think Blizz knows about what many more gamers want than most other companies, and more than everyone on this forum.
Now they may not know what you want ... but i suspect they won't care much about that.
Since its initial release in 2012, Diablo 3 - combined with its recent Reaper of Souls expansion - has sold more than 20 million copies worldwide across all platforms, Activision revealed during a financial report today.
Theme park styled MMO's based on some semi-likable IP = a dime a dozen.
I don't think there is a truly original bone in any developers body out there. And if there is, 'the suits' crush the creative souls of the dev's because they want $$$$$$$ and are afraid of any risks.
And honestly, the players don't really seem to want dev's to take risks either. If something is 'new' or 'different', then players (the majority) seem to only 'stick with what they know' as well.... which is the theme park MMO. They need a game with training-wheels.
For those that say a 'sandbox' MMO can't make it.... I do, actually call 'bullsh*t'. Look at the success of Minecraft. If that can be re-tooled into a full-fledged, full-featured MMORPG then it would have a shot. It would take work, but players seemingly want 'sandbox', but need the ability to create and such. Has any sandbox to date really worked over a long period of time with big numbers/sales? I would say that Minecraft really stands alone.
And then we have multiple games in the production pipe within the 'survival' genre. Most of those games still need a lot of work, but I feel like the first one of those games to 'do it right' or just 'more right than the others' will break it big. Right now, they lack creativity, and seem to simply spawn maps with grass/highway terrain, forest, or city... which are barren, looted, etc.,.. There's no building, no crafting, etc.,.. Just run, shoot, loot, and 'survive'. Throw in some Minecraft qualities and allow players to repair or create their own towns, communities, etc.,.. in those games, and I think you would see some successful sales and compelling numbers. To me, I do hope that The Repopulation does it right.
Someone mentioned WoW 2. I would be good for that. Then again, I'd still like to see an MMO based on the Starcraft IP. Again, allow players to venture out into open worlds and planets and find gas/mines. Then from there they can start settlements, bases, etc.,.. That, to me, would be pretty epic. PvEvP.
Someone mentioned WoW 2. I would be good for that. Then again, I'd still like to see an MMO based on the Starcraft IP. Again, allow players to venture out into open worlds and planets and find gas/mines. Then from there they can start settlements, bases, etc.,.. That, to me, would be pretty epic. PvEvP.
nah .. not even blizz is considering it. All they consider is a TPS in the starcraft universe, which was also scrapped.
Since its initial release in 2012, Diablo 3 - combined with its recent Reaper of Souls expansion - has sold more than 20 million copies worldwide across all platforms, Activision revealed during a financial report today.
Base on that, only 1/3 rd of the people who bought diablo 3 bother to buy the expansion.
That being said, I'm not sure if more copies have been sold later.
Based on how that game is doing, Blizzard was smart to jump ship...
No game released can ever match the content of a popular game that has been out for a decade or more. Look at the shear amount of content in EQ, EQ2, WOW... You would need a tremendous team and resources to be able to develop that level of content (which seems to be what themepark gamers expect) at release.
While I am not a huge Blizzard fan, they did make the right move to cancel as opposed to cash grabbing and shooting themselves in the foot like Destiny.
Guess this means 10 more years of WOW... look for a complete graphics overhaul around 2016. They already started on the character models.
Since its initial release in 2012, Diablo 3 - combined with its recent Reaper of Souls expansion - has sold more than 20 million copies worldwide across all platforms, Activision revealed during a financial report today.
Base on that, only 1/3 rd of the people who bought diablo 3 bother to buy the expansion.
That being said, I'm not sure if more copies have been sold later.
Well, RoS is also the best selling PC game in the quarter. We will find out how many more copies sold in the next quarterly report.
Note that there is no ROS console version ... and the ultimate evil edition includes RoS.
While I am not a huge Blizzard fan, they did make the right move to cancel as opposed to cash grabbing and shooting themselves in the foot like Destiny.
wait .. making $325M revenue in a week is shooting themselves in the foot?
(note that i am not arguing Destiny is a good game, and i have yet to play it ... but i am saying if 325M is shooting themselves in the foot, many companies would love to shoot themselves).
Think Titan was dropped because they realized the market is full. Players rush through content and on to the next game. Some do remain but even those split their time up playing other games. I can't count the number of maxed characters I have across all the MMO's I've played and I don't even play to max level in a lot of games.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Comments
I would be playing MMO's rather than ranting about them if they hadn't devolved over the years and become "an utter waste of time"....now I talk about MMO's because I wish I had a good one to play...I think the OP might feel the same.
Fortunately... single player RPG's are going the massive seamless open world route. Which is a good thing for MMORPG's in the long run.
I have no doubt that one day an absolutely huge, open world, single server MMORPG will knock everyone's socks off. The tech just isn't here yet.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
WoW2 will fail. This is what Blizzard pretty much figured out. WoW was an anomaly. They may give it a shot say around 2020 when WoW really starts to flag, but WoW was an attempt at doing what was already done across games better. You just can't do that as well right now as there are not enough new ideas out there to coopt. The money is NEVER in the original idea. The good idea game always ends up niche. It is the game that takes that football and charges with it that rakes in the money.
Very possible. It happens that way a lot more often than most gamers realize.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
They did. Hearthstone, WoT, LoL ..
The best way to specialize is not to make MMO, and pick a focused type of online games.
The genre itself sucks and it's flawed. MMOs are designed around players playing for ages. But that's simply not possible as content is finite. You will run out of content to do. The only way to stop players from finishing the content is to introduce gated content and insane time sinks. MMOs pre-WoW placed their bet on insane time sinks. That clearly didn't work as all those games were only niche games. All MMOs before WoW were nothing. Very few players played them in the grand scheme of things.
Players nowadays will not accept such time sinks. They have probably become smarter. So yeah, you can't play an MMO forever.
If Blizzard can't make another blockbuster MMO, then I don't think anyone else can.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Psh, it would just be your standard WoW clone.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
The only reason WoW is around is because of the warhammer universe
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.383230-World-of-Warcraft-Could-Have-Been-World-of-Warhammer
Are the devs even gamers? The way they build games you begin to wonder. What I see is big corps wanting to milk the consumer cows. No one has a clue what gamers really want. Did the thought ever occur to them to come here and ask us first what we want in an mmo?
Too many suits calling the shots and not enough gamers.
I am sure Blizzard realize they can sell anything,the problem is that it would only shift players from Wow over to Titan so not worth the risk of disrupting their money maker.Imo it would cause a rift,exactly what happened when SOE went from EQ1>EQ2.
The entire genre is flooded,too many copy cat linear questing games.The smart devs would focus on the open freedom type design ,there is less competition there.There are also other game areas that devs should focus on that have been ignored or done very cheaply,example crafting,housing and more importantly the GROUPING aspect,i have seen NOBODY since FFXI treat a mmo with good grouping mechanics.
Blizzard is not known for being too creative,they take old ideas and don't even improve them,definitely not with tech or graphics.If Blizzard is going to create a new high end game with tech and graphics it definitely cannot compete with Wow because shifting profits from one game to another does not increase revenue.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
We are still talking about the developers of Diablo, Starcraft, World of Warcraft and Hearthstone, right?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
4. So now we see the game that was first announced, is a shadow of what was originally. The developers have " listened" to their "majority of fans" and now we have this new and "adjusted" game for you. But obviously they will have to rush this into the game now, since they are going over budget, and are moving past the games scheduled deadlines. These new game adjustments are added in a rushed format, which creates many unforeseen bugs. Now we have a different game that was originally promised to us. "
And this is the part where all goes wrong.
Does doctors or nurses ask patient how they want to be treated? Or car mechanics at their shop how their client wants to have their cars fixed?
Professional game designers will know how to design a game that's fun to play. Everything can go miserably wrong when they start to ask opinions of producers and consumers. They are not experts for designing games, designers are.
Really?
D3 sold 20M boxes ... so at least Blizz knows what 20M gamers want.
Hearthstone has 20M players and making tons of money ... so Blizz knows what that 20M gamers want.
How copies did SC2 sell?
I don't think they need to ask anyone based on their track record. In fact, I think Blizz knows about what many more gamers want than most other companies, and more than everyone on this forum.
Now they may not know what you want ... but i suspect they won't care much about that.
clarifier -- the 20 million is for the complete D3 franchise for all platforms
http://www.joystiq.com/2014/08/05/diablo-3-reaper-of-souls-condemn-20-million-souls-across-all-pl/
Since its initial release in 2012, Diablo 3 - combined with its recent Reaper of Souls expansion - has sold more than 20 million copies worldwide across all platforms, Activision revealed during a financial report today.
EQ2 fan sites
LOL, no you wouldn't... it would literally be the same content rehashed under a new skin... you will have so been there done that before.
Theme park styled MMO's based on some semi-likable IP = a dime a dozen.
I don't think there is a truly original bone in any developers body out there. And if there is, 'the suits' crush the creative souls of the dev's because they want $$$$$$$ and are afraid of any risks.
And honestly, the players don't really seem to want dev's to take risks either. If something is 'new' or 'different', then players (the majority) seem to only 'stick with what they know' as well.... which is the theme park MMO. They need a game with training-wheels.
For those that say a 'sandbox' MMO can't make it.... I do, actually call 'bullsh*t'. Look at the success of Minecraft. If that can be re-tooled into a full-fledged, full-featured MMORPG then it would have a shot. It would take work, but players seemingly want 'sandbox', but need the ability to create and such. Has any sandbox to date really worked over a long period of time with big numbers/sales? I would say that Minecraft really stands alone.
And then we have multiple games in the production pipe within the 'survival' genre. Most of those games still need a lot of work, but I feel like the first one of those games to 'do it right' or just 'more right than the others' will break it big. Right now, they lack creativity, and seem to simply spawn maps with grass/highway terrain, forest, or city... which are barren, looted, etc.,.. There's no building, no crafting, etc.,.. Just run, shoot, loot, and 'survive'. Throw in some Minecraft qualities and allow players to repair or create their own towns, communities, etc.,.. in those games, and I think you would see some successful sales and compelling numbers. To me, I do hope that The Repopulation does it right.
Someone mentioned WoW 2. I would be good for that. Then again, I'd still like to see an MMO based on the Starcraft IP. Again, allow players to venture out into open worlds and planets and find gas/mines. Then from there they can start settlements, bases, etc.,.. That, to me, would be pretty epic. PvEvP.
nah .. not even blizz is considering it. All they consider is a TPS in the starcraft universe, which was also scrapped.
Base on that, only 1/3 rd of the people who bought diablo 3 bother to buy the expansion.
That being said, I'm not sure if more copies have been sold later.
Titan is out....It's called Wildstar...
Based on how that game is doing, Blizzard was smart to jump ship...
No game released can ever match the content of a popular game that has been out for a decade or more. Look at the shear amount of content in EQ, EQ2, WOW... You would need a tremendous team and resources to be able to develop that level of content (which seems to be what themepark gamers expect) at release.
While I am not a huge Blizzard fan, they did make the right move to cancel as opposed to cash grabbing and shooting themselves in the foot like Destiny.
Guess this means 10 more years of WOW... look for a complete graphics overhaul around 2016. They already started on the character models.
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
Well, RoS is also the best selling PC game in the quarter. We will find out how many more copies sold in the next quarterly report.
Note that there is no ROS console version ... and the ultimate evil edition includes RoS.
wait .. making $325M revenue in a week is shooting themselves in the foot?
(note that i am not arguing Destiny is a good game, and i have yet to play it ... but i am saying if 325M is shooting themselves in the foot, many companies would love to shoot themselves).
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey