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[Preview] Albion Online: Will You Ragequit or Persevere?
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
Get used to these three words. Indie Sandbox MMO. They're pretty much all the rage right now. Just off the top of my head, I can think of about ten of these games coming out. One of the bunch is a game being funded through Kickstarter, Albion Online. This game is, of course, a sandbox MMO brought to you by the fine folks from Sandbox Interactive. With no quests, heavy emphasis on crafting, and open pvp, the specific nostalgic heartstring this one is attempting to pluck is definitely Ultima Online. From the top-down prespective to the player-run cities, Albion Online screams how much it wants to emulate the beloved, old-school MMO.
Read more of Hive Leader's Albion Online: Will You Ragequit or Persevere?
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Saw a forum post highly criticizing this game and how it's not a sandbox like it claims. There was a developer post in response thanking him for the feedback and -- get this -- saying that the entire team agrees with the post and that having such valuable feedback is why they have Alpha. They then asked for everyone's opinions on the matter on how to make it better, including saying that the beginning experience for solo players needing work.
Though as a whole -- and more to the question at hand -- I'm used to full looting systems. They're not bad or scary if you know how they're done and you understand the system / the system is well worked out. Most of the time you will see that crafting is easy and your items won't be super rare like some kind of Heroic Piece you get out of a dungeon. They're craftable with resources you mine. You're also able to get resources and items from other players through just being friends, in a guild or in PvP where you risk your items against theirs. The main point is to not enter PvP areas with everything you own. You go with the bare essentials, which is Ultima Online 101 in a sense. One set of armor, one weapon, maybe a spare weapon. Bandages... or whatever the game's equivalent is. Then you do your business or play the game as you normally would -- hopefully with a group of like minded friends. In addition, you almost always should have spare armor sets and tools in your banks so that if you do die, there is absolutely no set back and you just go back to what you're doing, perhaps in a different area... or gather your friends up for some revenge.
Following the "just be smart" gameplay will likely make the ragequit factor non-existent if that's what one's worried about. Though as a whole, I'd agree and or understand with someone being shy of it. In fact, I'm not really all that into open world PvP anymore. I like one on one or organized fights and not just something that has degraded into team fights over the years, due to the popularity of MMOs (it was great back when such games had more of a niche and mature audience as a whole). This is why lately I don't play MMO games if there isn't a PvE server available for players who don't enjoy forced PvP.
I have been following this game since this past winter. I have to say that out of all the games coming out in the next year, this is the one I am really waiting for. The Dev team is a great team and great at communication. The game overall seems to be fun although I haven't gotten the chance to play.
(Removal of alpha giveaway and given to streamers and introduction of founders packs was disappointing but I understand the reasoning, if only I wasn't he main bread winner for my household....)
Anyway, I have to agree with this review on just about all counts. The combat is somewhat annoying. There are no misses, which is very frustrating IMO. If you can target them and hit your skill while in range, it will hit, end of story as stated to me by the devs on their forums. So I agree on the combat, that it just doesn't seem that great.
The death penalty I don't agree with completely. It is harsh and some folks will definitely rage quit, but in the end the game isn't for them. If your not into PVP then this game is not for you, folks just need to accept that rather than play it then whine on the forums for them to change it.
Overall I think this game will be a breath of fresh air and the start of seeing a lot of games going to be available on all platforms. That you can play this on pc and then move to your tablet or phone is absolutely awesome. As I've discussed on their forums, it makes the UI a bit hard to manager, having something that will work for all the devices and be customizable is difficult but it seems they have made it workable thus far. I think this game can really push the industry in a new direction with it offering itself on all devices and I cant wait to see how it fares and whether or not it actually does that, but time will tell.
Either way, I'll be in Open Beta and Release at very least, maybe even the next alpha if I can swing it!
Not sure why some dev's think that saying sandbox, makes the game better:P If you keep the open PVP and full loot, you are starting with a severe limit on the total audience that will even care about your game.
And the thing that makes the game play on other devices? It is not a "deep" game. Or a time consuming one, IMO. It is easy quick games that you can do in 5-15 minutes when you have a few free minutes. Not a go out mine and craft type of game.
But, we will see. I just can not imagine that this type of game will do any better in today's gaming world than it ever did way back when. Niche games are for select audiences. A Lot of dev's seem to forget that as soon as they start working on games, and end up trying to be everything to everyone and ruin their only hope of pleasing anyone at all in the process.
Honestly, we've been here already. Ultima Online had full-loot PvP and arguably the only reason it survived was because it was the ONLY option. The devs themselves stated the game was dying and Trammel (where PvP was optional) saved the game.
I guess people never learn.
Sure, you can "play it smart", but it "only takes one bad day". You can play it smart on most days but sooner or later you'll screw up, and sooner or later you'll screw up BIG, because people aren't perfect and everyone messes up eventually, and for most people, that'll be rage-quit day. There's a reason why these games are always so niche.
...if it really is FULL loot PvP (which I imagine it is considering they even let you loot FOUNDER COSMETIC ITEMS), I think the situation will be far worse than Eve or UO. According to the article, your character is your equipment. IE, someone looting your armour is the equivalent of looting your 50 levels in a theme park, the equivalent of looting your GM magery in UO, or the equivalent of looting all your skills in Eve. That's obscene. I wonder if they're really so crazy to have it be like THAT.
First let me say I am a founder at the $99 level so I have a vested interest in the game.
They are going for that 1997 UO feeling which for the most part they achieve very well, where you are your own destiny... gather, craft, kill, loot etc.
The main difference between then and now is really the players... Players today just seem to be much shittier to each other than back in the day where you could go out on your own, see another player and not have some Mexican standoff over who is going to draw first. You just idly passed each other by because there was some level of general civility. Now don't get me wrong, I was there in 97' hell even before in beta... and there were a fair share of gankers, PvP, etc. However because the sense of loss was so profound it (at least at the time) seemed that for every one PKer you had a swarm of PKKers ready to deal some justice.
In today's gaming climate you cannot play the same game the same way. You are almost forced to join some guild and play by their rules as opposed to a game having challenge and risk that doesn't involve an entire guild dedicated solely to grief and make others life miserable. The sad part is these players are usually also the top level players who in many cases will clearly dominate most times.
The other thing about the game that is a blessing and curse at the same times is crafting procs. You can craft an item and (from what I understand) it can be a legendary or epic item (similar to landmark in that regard) which also means that you can be killed/looted just on the chance that you may have something better on you. Old UO (before those rune hammers or whatever), even DFUW loot is/was pretty static with only the materials used being the profound difference. So if you killed someone with basic plate you had the same generic basic plate that you were probably wearing.
I want this game to be successful and they DO do a good job of at least segmenting zones that are safe, limited, or FFA PvP... However as with most games of this type in order to access the higher level resources you must venture into the PvP zones.
I don't see myself rage quitting however I also don't see myself enjoying this game as much as I would like because of the full loot aspect... I am always a fan of "item insurance" or some way you can hold onto your items by way of some form of cash sink, if you pay the insurance you keep your equipped items however lose your inventory, or at least highly reduce the chance of dropping equipment.
The most facinating part of the game is the destiny tree... You may lose your loot, but no one can ever take away what you have accomplished. so playing cautious and smart you will find that you lose a T6 sword, you can equip one again because you have made the effort to achieve that level of gear.
In closing I would hope they at least consider an alternate ruleset type server a la The Repopulation... One with Hardcore rules and others with more manageable ruleset.
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
open pvp and full loot? pfff , is a huge risk
not going to play it but will watch how it goes , will be fun watching ppl losing months of works in 1 min :P
Again, this speaks to understanding how loot/itemization works.
If done "right" you will only be losing something that you can make again with reasonable ease.
Not something that took months of work.
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The months of hard work is not in your loot, but your character... The equipment is replaceable because you did in fact "earn" the right to use said equipment by ranking up in the destiny tree.
Granted, losing equipment will suck, however playing cautious and smart you will likely have back ups... You must also pay close attention to the condition of your gear, as if it is not regularly repaired it can turn to trash which is also a perma loss.
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
Just as a note, it is full loot of inventory but folks cant take your gear. However you gear does take durability damage, so it can break from constant death.
(Unless they changed it from last I was reading the forums, it's semi-full loot)
Just to keep things in perspective...
I would love some clarification on this as I had the wrong impression about the equipped item looting. IIRC it is on a timer of sorts... If you don't get back to your corpse it will eventually be lootable by anyone, in which case it may as well be full loot and all someone would need to do is camp your corpse until the timer runs out.
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
How about another option?
Never try it in the first place.
Sorry the game looks too much like a mobile or facebook game. Plus I'm not at all interested in being forced to PvP. See sig for reference.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I just want to play the game! Until then I'm covering my eyes and ears and ignoring the hype, and hopefully I'll be successful at it this time..
*Glares at ESO, SWTOR, Destiny*
Never again.
"If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!"
Well... first of all, you don't get to define the word sandbox. Second, if sandbox means open world, then how does restricting pvp fit into that? Doesn't make sense. You're assuming a starting place of no pvp, and then you view open world pvp games as "forcing pvp" on you. Not logical.
Yeah nowdays the term sandbox MMO has become synonymous with open loot PVP. As if that is what sandbox is all about.
I find it ironic since people say themeparks just follow a very specific formula and here we have sandboxes who are doing the same. But hey when few of these would tank badly maybe these indie devs would realize that it is possible to make a very good sandbox without forcing 'open loot pvp' on players. For example SWG.
Items decay rate is very very high.
All you can do in this game is camping resources spawn spot for to get 1 iron if you lucky.
Kill 1 mob and your stuffs will be yellow with repair cost almost as much as making new items.
What ever you do, please do not die or 90% of your gear are thrash.
I do understand the game company do require to make money but this game is 100% P2W ( every tasks in the game require silver ( in game cash ) or you do have the option to pay with Gold ( real $ ) and you can trade gold ($) for silver between player .
ex: cost 125 silver to craft a sword or 30 gold ( $$$ )
I bought EVERY games founder package that out right now, from EQL, Rust, 7dtd, REPOP, Archage, alot alot more. But this is the one game i believe at 100% fault advertised and the biggest rip off.
Let me clarify, there are three types of zones, safe zones, pvp-limited zones, and full pvp zones.
In a safe zone you cannot be attacked by players, but obviously you can be killed by mobs, and don't be fooled, the mobs cant be very difficult, if you die in a safe zone, your items have a dice roll of taking from 20% to 80% durability damage, and if the hit takes it to 0 it becomes trash and is completely useless, now that being said in the safe zone you have 10 minutes to get back to your body before it becomes open lootable to anyone who comes across it, this means all your gear you were wearing, your mount, your inventory, everything but your money. In safe zones you can find up to Tier 4 harvesting( the game goes up to tier 8 ).
In PvP-Limited zones you can be attacked by players, but the initial attacker get a huge debuff that last for 5 or 10 minutes dont remember exactly, thus if its 1v1 chances are if someone attacks you then you can then freely turn around and beat them down without getting the debuff yourself( though most people run in groups so don't expect to see this a lot ), and when you die once again your gear takes a 20-80% hit based on a random hidden dice roll and your stuff is freely lootable. In Pvp-Limited zones you can find up to Tier 5 harvesting resources.
In full PvP zones the combat is completely open, no debuff, gear still takes the same chance of dmg, and your stuff is fully lootable. In full PvP zones you can find up to Tier 8 harvesting resources.
In addition to the best resources being found in the pvp zones, the mobs in the pvp-limited, and more so in the full pvp zones are higher tier and drop increasingly more money then in the safe zones, but if you wish to be in safe zones the whole time you can do it. You can buy the stuff you need off the market from those willing to risk the pvp zones, and you can join guilds and/or alliances which will help you, you don't have to be a fighter, guilds are just as happy to have gatherer/crafters to help upgrade towns, replenish gear for the warriors, and just contribute to the guilds overall abilitys. The death may seem harsh but if you always have resources to make backups, or have friends/guildies willing to help you restore your stuff, its not really that big of a deal aslong as you follow the golden rule of not risking anything you cant replace.
I have a blast in the game is really all I can say on the rest.
Mess with the best, Die like the rest
I've been playing for a week. I agree that the combat is a little *yawn* at this point, but it is already getting a little more exciting as I explore more dangerous places and nearly bite it. It doesn't feel sandboxy to me; I generally think Minecraft when I think sandbox. Right now there are plots you can build on and pay rent on. You can not permanently change the environment. If you cut down a tree, a few minutes later it is back. You can not build anything out in the world. I'm still in the early levels, but it is mostly a harvest and craft game at this point for me.
I was hoping to get some of that good ole Darkfall feeling from the game, but I think the combat detracts from the excitement. For the style of game it is, I think a turn-based combat akin to Wakfu or Darkest Dungeon might be a little more intense and exciting. It's still in alpha, so this is kind of like critiquing a half-cooked omelet. I do like the full loot and elements of risk. What they do have in place runs pretty seemlessly. More to come I guess.
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Forced PvP is not and never will be the determinging factor of a sandbox MMO. Up till a few years ago when the Wikipedia was changed the core feature of a sandbox MMO was open world, non linear game. The linearity was always the defining characteristic of whether or not a game was sandbox or not. Crafting, PvP and anything else that is modernly associated with Sandbox can be had in a Themepark, hence the main determining characteristic has always been linearity.
Games like Asheron's Call, while had an PvP server was never as popular as the PvE only ones and that is why AC will forever be the greatest and todate only PvE sandbox MMO. Plenty of non-MMO's are considered Sandbox.....from Two Worlds to Just Cause and even Skyrim, yet it lacks PvP but are still deemed Sandbox. Until MMO Developers get this through their head you'll never ever ever ever ever have a popular sandbox MMO. Hopefully EQN and SOE is getting this and are on the cusp of breaking the mode for the Sandbox MMO.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Which I understand. What I want Developers to understand is this whole notion of Forced PvP is not needed for a sandbox MMO. Turbine got it......SOE is hopefully getting it......so why not more. I understand if you want to restrict your game to some niche market then you make it forced PvP. If their fine with that then so be it but we as gamers want....nay we as gamers demand more out of MMO's. It's not like the genre is lacking Forced PvP MMO's and all of them are niche and small in popularity. Precisely because it doesn't appeal to the average MMO gamer.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I have this exactly vision. Today is improbable you see civilized players: you see someone in your screen, he will for sure attack you. That's not how I imagine a world. I don't walk in some city being attacked by everybody. I'm not trying compare the virtual and the real, I'm just showing how bizarre this is.
Does we will someday have a civilized virtual world again? A virtual world where a player who decide follow a path of criminal acts can be an outlaw, not just another one doing what everybody is doing? Would be nice have fear of specific players/clans, not from all. A virtual world with valid reputations, no matter what kind of.