This would be Wow killer 10 years ago. They have 2 options now:
1) Go F2P
2) Do same thing as Square Enix did with FFXIV 1.0.
Squeenix's salvaging of FFXIV was every bit the freakish occurrence that WoW's phenomenal success was / is. I really don't see that happening again for quite some time. Plus, I don't think Carbine has the time or funds to do something like that, even if they wanted to.
NCSoft has the funds. The question is if they want to go through this expensive endeavor. It worked for FFXIIV yes, but consider the fact that FF is a very well established IP with a player base counting in the millions. Definitely not the case with WildStar.
This would be Wow killer 10 years ago. They have 2 options now:
1) Go F2P
2) Do same thing as Square Enix did with FFXIV 1.0.
Squeenix's salvaging of FFXIV was every bit the freakish occurrence that WoW's phenomenal success was / is. I really don't see that happening again for quite some time. Plus, I don't think Carbine has the time or funds to do something like that, even if they wanted to.
NCSoft has the funds. The question is if they want to go through this expensive endeavor. It worked for FFXIIV yes, but consider the fact that FF is a very well established IP with a player base counting in the millions. Definitely not the case with WildStar.
Even if a stunt like this would get funded by NCSoft, Carbine still doesn't have what it takes to pull it off.
It failed because of the combat system. It is really that simple. Action combat does not work in MMO's where equipment and community are important.
You're right, 20+ macros for different target frames and 30+ buttons on all your action bars is exactly how you should play a game.
Action combat is what MMO needs to become more exciting; but no one can do it right so far. That is the difference.
No one doing it right yet versus action combat done right. Sorry you had to aim to get your buttons to be effective versus spamming a button.
Equipment / community works the same regardless of how the combat system works; you need to stop making stuff up just because it sounds "smart": which it really didn't.
It failed because of the combat system. It is really that simple. Action combat does not work in MMO's where equipment and community are important.
You're right, 20+ macros for different target frames and 30+ buttons on all your action bars is exactly how you should play a game.
Action combat is what MMO needs to become more exciting; but no one can do it right so far. That is the difference.
No one doing it right yet versus action combat done right. Sorry you had to aim to get your buttons to be effective versus spamming a button.
Equipment / community works the same regardless of how the combat system works; you need to stop making stuff up just because it sounds "smart": which it really didn't.
You say this as if aiming in Wildstar or TERA is actually difficult to players with brains. News flash, it's not. Additionally, not every non-action combat MMO involves spamming a single button. The only real spamming of a single button 5+ times I've ever done besides on my hunter in WoW was in wildstar, lol.
Anyway these guys at carbine deserve nothing but failure. They got so cocky that they're game was going to be the best and used their vanilla WoW development experience as credibility for it when in reality they have NO IDEA how the industry is.
I don't even wanna know how much ish is hitting the fan behind closed doors with that company. It must be such a disaster working there right now, just walking in every day wondering if today is gonna be your last day. I just hope everyone is able to find a new job somewhere after that studio folds.
It failed because of the combat system. It is really that simple. Action combat does not work in MMO's where equipment and community are important.
You're right, 20+ macros for different target frames and 30+ buttons on all your action bars is exactly how you should play a game.
Action combat is what MMO needs to become more exciting; but no one can do it right so far. That is the difference.
No one doing it right yet versus action combat done right. Sorry you had to aim to get your buttons to be effective versus spamming a button.
Equipment / community works the same regardless of how the combat system works; you need to stop making stuff up just because it sounds "smart": which it really didn't.
First you exaggerate the number of buttons needed for traditional MMO combat, then you state that it's simple and involves spamming one button over again. So which one is it? It's not neither, and it can't be both.
That aside, I somewhat agree with you. Wildstar's problem is that not only do attacks feel far too similar, but even fighting a couple of regular mobs feels more like playing Dance Dance Revolution! than it does an MMO. To say nothing of the ridiculous amounts of telegraphs you need to avoid during boss fights.
If I wanted to play a game where my character bounces around like a ping pong ball in a clothes dryer, I'd go play a Sonic the hedgehog game or something.
In the end, I prefer traditional MMO combat, but I can definitely see the allure of properly done action combat as well. Wildstar's definitely isn't it. In fact, I'd say it's one of the worst action combat systems out there. TERA, GW2, even TSW (to a certain extent) all do it better.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
A couple of other people have mentioned it launched to early and I totally agree when I first started playing I had said it felt like it needed a little longer in development after a week or so I was saying it needed a couple months after playing for about 2 months I don't think another year would help them.
It failed because of the combat system. It is really that simple. Action combat does not work in MMO's where equipment and community are important.
more like "action combat does not work when you try to mix it with tab or click targeting".
the strong point of action combat is the weight it gives the combat, like old-school fighting games where you could actually finish your opponents without losing health if you were skilled enough.
The point is, wildstar is not "true action combat" as they stated themselves. their mobs have auto-attacks that always hit with no means to block or dodge and the addition of tab/click targeting makes it just stressful to play, rather than engaging.
the reason i don't play anymore is i actually really like the spellslinger. point is, the spellslinger, short of the medic maybe, has the most click-target-intensive skillset, so when i installed mods to try and make WS run like TERA and TESO, you know, REAL action combat with attacks on the mousebuttons too, i found myself just having to turn that shit on and off during combat in addition to managing the already rather stressful combat.
They promised us a huge content drop every 30 days.
After first month they couldn't deliver.
The game was pretty much a cash grab as it gets.
Fortunately it didnt work. The game made zero money comapred to its production cost. Im sure the time of terrible themepark cloning attempts is far from over, but at least they are not profitable anymore.
Originally posted by Iceman8235 I don't even wanna know how much ish is hitting the fan behind closed doors with that company. It must be such a disaster working there right now, just walking in every day wondering if today is gonna be your last day. I just hope everyone is able to find a new job somewhere after that studio folds.
Considering the quality and ideas behind WS, let's hope not. I hate to think of people losing their jobs, but at the same time I hope these guys don't reproduce. WS was DOA already in Open Beta. The only game to lose most of its population BEFORE the free month is over. Darwinism isn't an opinion, survival of the fittest at its best
Originally posted by njoy420 Firefall doing better than Wildstar? hahaha good joke, Firefall died years ago, just look at steamcharts to see how good its doing
I firmly believe it is the action combat and I hope that idea dies with this game. The crazy weaving avoiding telegraphs in an MMORPG is an idea I never want to see again. I liked the game a lot the art ,humour but the combat yuch !
Originally posted by kitarad I firmly believe it is the action combat and I hope that idea dies with this game. The crazy weaving avoiding telegraphs in an MMORPG is an idea I never want to see again. I liked the game a lot the art ,humour but the combat yuch !
I love action combat and I love FPS/TPS combat; but endlessly dodging telegraphs of different sizes and shapes is just repetitive and exhausting.
But I agree that the combat was a large part of the problem with this game, although there were many other niggling issues- death from a thousand cuts as someone else said.
The combat really was a one trick pony. A different shaped red zone on the ground does not varied combat make. To require that much attention/ concentration for a combat design that is fundamentally incredibly tedious was just foolish.
I post about Action combat here, you can read peoples thoughts. I agree. MMORPGs do not fit action combat, and this is coming from someone who plays alot of A.Combat games and MMORPGs in general, the two don't mix because:
MMORPGs are grindy by their very nature, remove the grind, you remove the reason anyone would stick around.
Action combat is much, much more tiring than Tab-target. 90 minutes of Action combat leaves your hands abit sore, and maybe a headache. However, people marathon MMORPGs and it drives them away when they're grinding for hours on end and need 100% focus. The vast majority play MMORPGs with their TVs on or reading a book even. Take that away from them...yeah.
Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!
WS was the last MMORPG I played when it came out and I subbed for month 2 but shouldn't of. Get more value out of WoW and that is boring as bat shit due to have already played it before. See you in WoD the last chance before I start playing FPS titles in my spare time.
Originally posted by kitarad I firmly believe it is the action combat and I hope that idea dies with this game. The crazy weaving avoiding telegraphs in an MMORPG is an idea I never want to see again. I liked the game a lot the art ,humour but the combat yuch !
WS does not have "action combat". Tera, GW2 and ESO have action combat. Action combat has been a huge part of their success. WS combat is all AoE all the time. It was a terrible idea. I too hope this type of combat system dies with Wildstar, which I'm sure it will.
Action combat is much, much more tiring than Tab-target. 90 minutes of Action combat leaves your hands abit sore, and maybe a headache. However, people marathon MMORPGs and it drives them away when they're grinding for hours on end and need 100% focus. The vast majority play MMORPGs with their TVs on or reading a book even. Take that away from them...yeah.
Use a gamepad and you will play action games hours and hours without noticing and getting tired at all. I recently played shadow of mordor for like 5-6 hours straight doing mostly optional missions and time just flew by. And people play Diablo 3 on PS4 for many straight hours grinding too.
Im 100% focused when theres like 20 Orcs all over me with 2 different captains and maybe even warchief and im getting every single counter attack, killing orcs left and right, shooting with my bow, jumping over orcs, all without even getting hit once. And the Orcs just keep coming when that alarm goes off while Im trying to kill that warchief at the same time as the other two captains.
but when im playing a mmo with typical tab target hotbar combat, it makes me sleepy and lose interest, I was literally dozing off once in lord of the rings online. It makes the grind in mmos extremely boring, and its feeling the same way in Archeage for me.
But it was different in ESO, I loved the combat in that game because it was fast and it had a smooth flow going enemy to enemy like single player action games.
I haven't played the game at all. It was definitely on my radar but it just wasn't enough to get me back to MMOs. It seems clear that they overestimated the number of players looking to return to the days of Vanilla WOW. Even WOW had a previously popular IP to drive interest.
They should just pull a SWTOR and LOTRO and go F2P with optional subs or permanent unlocks in a shop.
Originally posted by kitarad I firmly believe it is the action combat and I hope that idea dies with this game. The crazy weaving avoiding telegraphs in an MMORPG is an idea I never want to see again. I liked the game a lot the art ,humour but the combat yuch !
I love action combat. GW2, Tera, and Wildstar have made traditional tab targeting combat incredibly boring and unchallenging to me.
Originally posted by kitarad I firmly believe it is the action combat and I hope that idea dies with this game. The crazy weaving avoiding telegraphs in an MMORPG is an idea I never want to see again. I liked the game a lot the art ,humour but the combat yuch !
WS does not have "action combat". Tera, GW2 and ESO have action combat. Action combat has been a huge part of their success. WS combat is all AoE all the time. It was a terrible idea. I too hope this type of combat system dies with Wildstar, which I'm sure it will.
Exactly this. WS has a horrible hybrid system with telegraphs everywhere. The only variety in combat is having to dodge out of a different coloured red shape on the ground which makes it incredibly repetitive and means it quickly becomes dull. It is a dreadful combat system.
True action combat as per the examples above and FPS/ TPS games is, by contrast, a lot of fun and rarely exhausting.
Seriously GW2 and Tera never gave me shoulder or wrist pain when I played it at all. The games were easy and I was never under the impression that they were action games. ESO gave me a headache something about the FOV so that game I played beta for only awhile and dumped it.
Tera was not at all as bad as Wildstar it was easy to play and I never felt like my limbs were falling off their socket after an hour. Wildstar with its mouse turn and constant movement actually hurt my joints I had to put on an elbow brace and cut my play time. GW 2 was like any old tab target game to me. Was that even action combat aside from binding one of my mouse keys to a dodge it was like any other tab target game I have played.
The only action game I am aware of was DC online and Vindictus. Both of which I am not fond of.
Wildstar takes a terrible toll on my poor old hands and I found the combat truly bad after awhile and healing people in dungeons I was actually struggling and I was kicked out for failing. I am now playing FFXIV ARR and I move out of telegraphs fine there. Wildstar is just crazy bad to be honest the combat. They need to revamp it.
Comments
NCSoft has the funds. The question is if they want to go through this expensive endeavor. It worked for FFXIIV yes, but consider the fact that FF is a very well established IP with a player base counting in the millions. Definitely not the case with WildStar.
Even if a stunt like this would get funded by NCSoft, Carbine still doesn't have what it takes to pull it off.
It failed because of the combat system. It is really that simple. Action combat does not work in MMO's where equipment and community are important.
You're right, 20+ macros for different target frames and 30+ buttons on all your action bars is exactly how you should play a game.
Action combat is what MMO needs to become more exciting; but no one can do it right so far. That is the difference.
No one doing it right yet versus action combat done right. Sorry you had to aim to get your buttons to be effective versus spamming a button.
Equipment / community works the same regardless of how the combat system works; you need to stop making stuff up just because it sounds "smart": which it really didn't.
You say this as if aiming in Wildstar or TERA is actually difficult to players with brains. News flash, it's not. Additionally, not every non-action combat MMO involves spamming a single button. The only real spamming of a single button 5+ times I've ever done besides on my hunter in WoW was in wildstar, lol.
Anyway these guys at carbine deserve nothing but failure. They got so cocky that they're game was going to be the best and used their vanilla WoW development experience as credibility for it when in reality they have NO IDEA how the industry is.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
First you exaggerate the number of buttons needed for traditional MMO combat, then you state that it's simple and involves spamming one button over again. So which one is it? It's not neither, and it can't be both.
That aside, I somewhat agree with you. Wildstar's problem is that not only do attacks feel far too similar, but even fighting a couple of regular mobs feels more like playing Dance Dance Revolution! than it does an MMO. To say nothing of the ridiculous amounts of telegraphs you need to avoid during boss fights.
If I wanted to play a game where my character bounces around like a ping pong ball in a clothes dryer, I'd go play a Sonic the hedgehog game or something.
In the end, I prefer traditional MMO combat, but I can definitely see the allure of properly done action combat as well. Wildstar's definitely isn't it. In fact, I'd say it's one of the worst action combat systems out there. TERA, GW2, even TSW (to a certain extent) all do it better.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
They promised us a huge content drop every 30 days.
After first month they couldn't deliver.
The game was pretty much a cash grab as it gets.
more like "action combat does not work when you try to mix it with tab or click targeting".
the strong point of action combat is the weight it gives the combat, like old-school fighting games where you could actually finish your opponents without losing health if you were skilled enough.
The point is, wildstar is not "true action combat" as they stated themselves. their mobs have auto-attacks that always hit with no means to block or dodge and the addition of tab/click targeting makes it just stressful to play, rather than engaging.
the reason i don't play anymore is i actually really like the spellslinger. point is, the spellslinger, short of the medic maybe, has the most click-target-intensive skillset, so when i installed mods to try and make WS run like TERA and TESO, you know, REAL action combat with attacks on the mousebuttons too, i found myself just having to turn that shit on and off during combat in addition to managing the already rather stressful combat.
it. didn't. work.
fix the combat and i'll come back.
Fortunately it didnt work. The game made zero money comapred to its production cost. Im sure the time of terrible themepark cloning attempts is far from over, but at least they are not profitable anymore.
Considering the quality and ideas behind WS, let's hope not. I hate to think of people losing their jobs, but at the same time I hope these guys don't reproduce. WS was DOA already in Open Beta. The only game to lose most of its population BEFORE the free month is over. Darwinism isn't an opinion, survival of the fittest at its best
30-Day Avg: 2598
Pretty decent IMHO.
I love action combat and I love FPS/TPS combat; but endlessly dodging telegraphs of different sizes and shapes is just repetitive and exhausting.
But I agree that the combat was a large part of the problem with this game, although there were many other niggling issues- death from a thousand cuts as someone else said.
The combat really was a one trick pony. A different shaped red zone on the ground does not varied combat make. To require that much attention/ concentration for a combat design that is fundamentally incredibly tedious was just foolish.
I mentioned the same thing you said and got 5 days ban from this website. Now it is cool to say so. Wow.
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/417839/page/1
I post about Action combat here, you can read peoples thoughts. I agree. MMORPGs do not fit action combat, and this is coming from someone who plays alot of A.Combat games and MMORPGs in general, the two don't mix because:
MMORPGs are grindy by their very nature, remove the grind, you remove the reason anyone would stick around.
Action combat is much, much more tiring than Tab-target. 90 minutes of Action combat leaves your hands abit sore, and maybe a headache. However, people marathon MMORPGs and it drives them away when they're grinding for hours on end and need 100% focus. The vast majority play MMORPGs with their TVs on or reading a book even. Take that away from them...yeah.
Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
WS does not have "action combat". Tera, GW2 and ESO have action combat. Action combat has been a huge part of their success. WS combat is all AoE all the time. It was a terrible idea. I too hope this type of combat system dies with Wildstar, which I'm sure it will.
Use a gamepad and you will play action games hours and hours without noticing and getting tired at all. I recently played shadow of mordor for like 5-6 hours straight doing mostly optional missions and time just flew by. And people play Diablo 3 on PS4 for many straight hours grinding too.
Im 100% focused when theres like 20 Orcs all over me with 2 different captains and maybe even warchief and im getting every single counter attack, killing orcs left and right, shooting with my bow, jumping over orcs, all without even getting hit once. And the Orcs just keep coming when that alarm goes off while Im trying to kill that warchief at the same time as the other two captains.
but when im playing a mmo with typical tab target hotbar combat, it makes me sleepy and lose interest, I was literally dozing off once in lord of the rings online. It makes the grind in mmos extremely boring, and its feeling the same way in Archeage for me.
But it was different in ESO, I loved the combat in that game because it was fast and it had a smooth flow going enemy to enemy like single player action games.
I haven't played the game at all. It was definitely on my radar but it just wasn't enough to get me back to MMOs. It seems clear that they overestimated the number of players looking to return to the days of Vanilla WOW. Even WOW had a previously popular IP to drive interest.
They should just pull a SWTOR and LOTRO and go F2P with optional subs or permanent unlocks in a shop.
I love action combat. GW2, Tera, and Wildstar have made traditional tab targeting combat incredibly boring and unchallenging to me.
Exactly this. WS has a horrible hybrid system with telegraphs everywhere. The only variety in combat is having to dodge out of a different coloured red shape on the ground which makes it incredibly repetitive and means it quickly becomes dull. It is a dreadful combat system.
True action combat as per the examples above and FPS/ TPS games is, by contrast, a lot of fun and rarely exhausting.
Seriously GW2 and Tera never gave me shoulder or wrist pain when I played it at all. The games were easy and I was never under the impression that they were action games. ESO gave me a headache something about the FOV so that game I played beta for only awhile and dumped it.
Tera was not at all as bad as Wildstar it was easy to play and I never felt like my limbs were falling off their socket after an hour. Wildstar with its mouse turn and constant movement actually hurt my joints I had to put on an elbow brace and cut my play time. GW 2 was like any old tab target game to me. Was that even action combat aside from binding one of my mouse keys to a dodge it was like any other tab target game I have played.
The only action game I am aware of was DC online and Vindictus. Both of which I am not fond of.
Wildstar takes a terrible toll on my poor old hands and I found the combat truly bad after awhile and healing people in dungeons I was actually struggling and I was kicked out for failing. I am now playing FFXIV ARR and I move out of telegraphs fine there. Wildstar is just crazy bad to be honest the combat. They need to revamp it.