"I like my plaque, so again, we'll put the value at personal preference, but the fact that they rewarded us when they didn't have to still stands."
Unbelievable. You obviously don't know when youre being patronized.
"No, but I can name you three bugs that I /bugged on Test Center that were fixed before the CU went live..."
How can you possibly defend SOE's handling of bugs when every single profession had a bug list as long as your arm? The argument that some bugs were just too hard to fix won't cut it for me. I'm a software engineer too and my company would never accept such an excuse form me. If I were to try that one I'd be cleaning out my office at the end of the week.
In regards to the level system you stated: "I've gotten used to it, and what can I say? It doesn't bother me at all. It's different, yes, and takes some getting used to, but it is hardly a deal breaker.".
Heres a deal breaker for ya. All non combat professions are completely useless. Crafters must venture out into the wilds in order to harvest resources. SWG encounter spawns, unlike most other MMORPG games, pop into existence when the character travels through a zone. The server, being slow as servers tend to be, will often not pop a spawn into existence until you are directly on top of it. This means that crafters, being combat lvl 1 or at most combat lvl 67, are often one shot killed by spawns that didn't exist a moment ago.
Previously, master craftsmen could also be a master pistoleer or riflemen or martial artists. That meant they were combat viable so the popping spawn problem wasn't such a big deal. If you say you've gotten used to the new way, I would bet you dont currently play a crafting profession.
I could go on about other deal breakers but that's the most heinous directly due to the new combat level implementation.
"Just a side note: It takes Blizzard about twice the time to make a game than any other company due to the fact that they can't pre-design ANYTHING. They completely scrapped Starcraft, Diablo II, and Warcraft III halfway through development and started over because their games sucked. They can only do iterative design, playing and testing and playing and testing, which is a piss poor way of designing."
Criticize Blizzard if you must but their games have something SWG has not achieved in the last two years....POLISH.
SOE and the SWG team obviously think theyve done the right thing. They keep saying so. That, my friend, is why Ive left the game. All this talk about companies needing to say good things about their product despite reality is, quite frankly, hog wash. Lying to the public to protect share holder value has given us Enron, Tyco, and World Com. We now live in a new age of capitalism, one in which the public demands an honest broker. Thats what I wanted form SOE, an honest apology from an honest broker.
SOE had over two years to work on this "CU". If they had to rush it out the door to match the movie and had to skip normal development cycle its their own fault. I have no sympathy for them. The movie has been scheduled for the last six years, the game's been live for almost two. If theyve been coding the CU for the last two years and the result is what was released, then I truly dont have any sympathy for them, because no one disputes what a bug ridden peice of junk the "CU" release was.
Good bye SWG. May the force be with you cause I wont be.
PS: My character was a Master Ranger/Master Riflemen. I always used buffs, had to. I always used composite armor, had to. Ive never soloed a Kyrate(sp?) dragon. Just thought Id throw that in before being accused of God Mode style play just to save time.
Originally posted by Ch3cksix Unbelievable. You obviously don't know when youre being patronized. You obviously don't know when I'm being patronizing. How can you possibly defend SOE's handling of bugs when every single profession had a bug list as long as your arm? The argument that some bugs were just too hard to fix won't cut it for me. I'm a software engineer too and my company would never accept such an excuse form me. If I were to try that one I'd be cleaning out my office at the end of the week. I think you'll find that I said the bugs were too difficult to fix in such a short time, and that their priorities weren't our priorities (at least not what we say they are). We want it all, but they have to decide between client stability and bugs which are annoying, but bypassable. Things that require balancing and game design decisions instead of programming ones take longer to fix than we've given them time. I merely think they need more time before they've earned the ire that is being heaped upon them. Maybe they will shape up. Maybe not. But it's too soon to scream DOOM at the top of our lungs just yet. Heres a deal breaker for ya. All non combat professions are completely useless. Crafters must venture out into the wilds in order to harvest resources. SWG encounter spawns, unlike most other MMORPG games, pop into existence when the character travels through a zone. The server, being slow as servers tend to be, will often not pop a spawn into existence until you are directly on top of it. This means that crafters, being combat lvl 1 or at most combat lvl 67, are often one shot killed by spawns that didn't exist a moment ago. Useless? Please. They just aren't as effective. Like I said, group with a CL80 guy and the mobs become gray and won't attack. Buy cheap camo kits. Use a slower landspeeder instead of a swoop. I've personally peeled across Dantooine as a CL1 character on my swoop and had no problem. I got incapped once, but not killed. Previously, master craftsmen could also be a master pistoleer or riflemen or martial artists. That meant they were combat viable so the popping spawn problem wasn't such a big deal. If you say you've gotten used to the new way, I would bet you dont currently play a crafting profession. Actually, I'm an armorsmith and I was a shipwright before my wife decided she wanted to be one. I'll end up dropping armorsmith eventually in favor of combat, but I'm not exactly CL80 right now and have had no problems. Even if I wasn't a crafting profession, the point would still stand. Are there really people out there these days that think that attacking the integrity of the person destroys the integrity of their message? You want to debate, fine, but don't bother which such flimsy logical fallacies in the future. I could go on about other deal breakers but that's the most heinous directly due to the new combat level implementation. Why didn't you? I mean, you say you can, but you didn't. If you want to "win" the argument and convince someone that the CU is the worst thing since Hitler, why offer less information than you have? Is it because you don't really have it? Criticize Blizzard if you must but their games have something SWG has not achieved in the last two years....POLISH. I criticized their process, not their games. And you are more than welcome to go play WoW. I did. I came back to SWG. If that's the competition, than SOE won. SOE and the SWG team obviously think theyve done the right thing. They keep saying so. That, my friend, is why Ive left the game. Just out of curiosity, if you've left the game, why spend so much valuable hot air bitching about it? If you're done, be done and leave the rest of us alone. All this talk about companies needing to say good things about their product despite reality is, quite frankly, hog wash. Lying to the public to protect share holder value has given us Enron, Tyco, and World Com. We now live in a new age of capitalism, one in which the public demands an honest broker. Thats what I wanted form SOE, an honest apology from an honest broker. This statement show such a naive understanding that it is literally beyond my ability to dumb down my response such that you would would be capable of reading. SOE had over two years to work on this "CU". No they didn't, dumb ass. It's been, what, six months top? They didn't even seriously talk about the CU until after JtL came out. If they had to rush it out the door to match the movie and had to skip normal development cycle its their own fault. Actually, it's the movie's fault. Good bye SWG. May the force be with you cause I wont be. So long. Farwell. Auf wiedersehn, Adieu.
I hate to tell you this but you were flat out lied to by the soe dev team. The reason that the negative responses weren't on the boards is because the dev delted and banned anyone posting them < yours truly included > . I have friends who still play and am told that it is really tough to craft or anything now because of the lack of players. the vocal opposition was HUGE to this cu, and more thhen anything ppl were pissed because the devs would not listen to their customers. of course the devs won't tell u that " hey we messed up big time " but talk to the commuity and you'll find out different. what they've done now is blocked their boards to anyone with out a paid subscription, u can read but not post. go check out the amazon site for swg and look at the "vocal opposition " there, check out the huge thread on the pcgamer site on their online gaming forum and see the " vocal oppositiuon " there.
"Why didn't you? I mean, you say you can, but you didn't. If you want to "win" the argument and convince someone that the CU is the worst thing since Hitler, why offer less information than you have? Is it because you don't really have it?"
I was trying to stay on topic about combat level. I offer less information than I have in order to remain focused. If I had wanted to write an essay about the failings of the CU I would have done so.
The CU is not the worse thing since Hitler. The CU is part of a game. The holocust was the death of 6,000,000 people. I'm also not trying to "win" an argument. I'm trying to point out the falibility of your argument. Lets try to keep things in prospective without accuseing me of over reacting.
"You want to debate, fine, but don't bother which such flimsy logical fallacies in the future."
You're right, I should not have bet that you didn't play a crafting profesion. I will bet now that there is no accounting for taste, common sense or the ability to reason in some people. That means you
"Just out of curiosity, if you've left the game, why spend so much valuable hot air bitching about it? If you're done, be done and leave the rest of us alone."
Because others should be warned about this game before investing $50.00 + $14.99 / mo. Consider it a public service. If not "leaving you alone" can alert a potential user to the problems of the game, I consider it a reward well worth the price. Curiosity satisfied?
"This statement show such a naive understanding that it is literally beyond my ability to dumb down my response such that you would would be capable of reading."
Tell this to the guys now serving time in a Federal Prision. Then get back to me about my naivet'e. Oh and thank you for the third grade taunt, calling me dumb. Don't worry about dumbing down your responses, you're doing just fine
and finally, my favorite of your responses....
"No they didn't, dumb ass. It's been, what, six months top? They didn't even seriously talk about the CU until after JtL came out."
Not working on the CU until after the JTL expansion was a question of priority. Still their decision, still their fault. And again, thanks for the trip back to the third grade.
"Actually, it's the movie's fault."
Ok maybe this is my favorite of your responses. I really can't decide.
"So long. Farwell. Auf wiedersehn, Adieu"
Good bye to you also sir. May we never actually meet.
Vocal opposition may well be the right word... As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I have added a poll to our system on the subject. The bulk of voters have no opinion as expected (non-SWG players), but currently those in favor of the CU are winning the vote.
There is a vocal opposition, but it is not as if the entire playerbase up and quit.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
A poll on this website about the "Combat Upgrade", in my opinion, wouldn't be an accurate representation of the actual dividing points among the Star Wars Galaxies player base represented in the last 2 months before, initially, and after the combat upgrade.
Reason being is that there are many people who have quit the game and moved on. There are those that have quit and are continuing to voice their opinions. And there are also those (like me) that have moved on and will check up once in a while about the condition of the "Combat Upgrade" hoping against all odds that some miracle will come and change the game to what we had initially wanted. Then there are those that still play the game (they are for, against, or don't care much for the CU) that don't bother with, or even know about websites like these.
Basicly, the poll that was on Star Wars Galaxies' website before, and just after implimentation would be the most accurate of all the polls given that it was on the game's website (even though there are those that argue that only a small percentage actually visit the forums and can't accurately represent the entire player base. I say to those people; that is what a poll is: A targetted percentage of a targetted group) and many of us know what the poll results were of that poll: 80% against the current form of the released "Combat Upgrade".
Originally posted by Ch3cksix I was trying to stay on topic about combat level. I offer less information than I have in order to remain focused. If I had wanted to write an essay about the failings of the CU I would have done so. Then a comment about the information you had that you weren't going to share was unnecessary. If you have enough time to say "I'm not going to tell you X", then you have enough time to tell us about X. You're right, I should not have bet that you didn't play a crafting profesion. I will bet now that there is no accounting for taste, common sense or the ability to reason in some people. That means you Taste maybe, but I dare you to find more logical and well reasoned posts in this thread than my own. Because others should be warned about this game before investing $50.00 + $14.99 / mo. Consider it a public service. If not "leaving you alone" can alert a potential user to the problems of the game, I consider it a reward well worth the price. Curiosity satisfied? They pay $30 for the Total Experience, try it out, and if they don't like it, they can unsubscribe. They are hardly being forced into the $15 a month, and the game hasn't been $50 for years. Those people who already had the game have already decided whether they are staying or leaving. For instance, I think it should be obvious that I like the CU and that I'm staying with it, and yet your response was to me, to insult me and my opinions. That's attacking, not warning. Tell this to the guys now serving time in a Federal Prision. Then get back to me about my naivet'e. Oh and thank you for the third grade taunt, calling me dumb. Don't worry about dumbing down your responses, you're doing just fine I didn't call you dumb. I called your understanding of a particular topic shallow and naive - though I'm getting dangerously close to pointing out the obvious and just being done with this moronic, baseless discussion with you. Not working on the CU until after the JTL expansion was a question of priority. Still their decision, still their fault. And again, thanks for the trip back to the third grade. They didn't see the need for a significant combat upgrade the SECOND they released the game. It took over a year, while they concentrated on adding the promised, but undelivered features like mounts, vehicles, player cities, and space. They revamped the droid engineer class, and jedi. They added several large dungeons. And then they realized, hey, we should change combat a little. And then it became obvious that the system could not be changed in small ways - that it was fundamentally flawed and impossible, and that no amount of patching on top of patches was ever going to fix it. The CU became what the CU is months after JtL was released as they started realizing how wide and deep the need for an overhaul was. It is absurd to blame them for not working on the CU the second the game came out - not even the players called for a CU that early. You purposely inflate the time to two years to make it look like they've been sitting around on their asses since the game came out, and that is demonstratably NOT TRUE. They've added tons of stuff to the game - not just new areas or quests, though they did that too. They've added new and significant gameplay to the game, stuff that required the work of artist, programmer, and designer. They have neither been working on the CU for two years, nor avoiding working on it for two years. So please, stop trying to distort the facts to support your amazing shallow appreciation of the CU.
Originally posted by legacyguy A poll on this website about the "Combat Upgrade", in my opinion, wouldn't be an accurate representation of the actual dividing points among the Star Wars Galaxies player base represented in the last 2 months before, initially, and after the combat upgrade. It's at least as accurate as the one in the SWG forums. I don't think either poll are particularly useful, one way or the other, but I don't think you'll find a statistically significant representation of that population at that point. Even if you sat in the game and interviewed 1,000 people from each server at random, that would still only tackle the people currently playing the game and not those who left. We've missed our chance to get the numbers you want - and I'd argue that it's a waste of time anyway, as the CU isn't going anywhere regardless. Basicly, the poll that was on Star Wars Galaxies' website before, and just after implimentation would be the most accurate of all the polls given that it was on the game's website (even though there are those that argue that only a small percentage actually visit the forums and can't accurately represent the entire player base. I say to those people; that is what a poll is: A targetted percentage of a targetted group) and many of us know what the poll results were of that poll: 80% against the current form of the released "Combat Upgrade". I wish that were true, but that poll was equally biased. First of all, only the hardcore players check the forums, or at least post in them (I don't post in the SWG forums at all, though I do read the sections that apply to my character's professions). Second, it includes only veteran players, most of which have been used to the old system for no shortage of time. A new player, and they got plenty a few weeks later, wouldn't have to abandon an old system for a new one and wouldn't have as much resistence. Third, the poll was started for the CU that was up on Test Center, which was very much buggier and more grotesque than the slightly sleeker CU we have after two months of patching. Fourth, I know some people who were against the CU had multiple accounts, and thus multiple forum accounts, and I also know that there were some which abused the system severely to enforce their opinion and make it seem like others agreed with them. (It was once discovered that one thread was entirely one guy using three names talking to himself about how bad the CU was). Fifth, that poll was not advertised. In game, I saw plenty of shouts for the badly mismanaged anti-CU petition, but not the poll. A majority of the playerbase never knew it existed. The only way to have a statistically accurate representation of what the playerbase believes is to select a random sampling of them in game (no other criteria I can think of, short of SOE providing account names of people who were registered and playing during May 2005, would be acceptable), taken from different starports and different servers. You'd need a large sample, so large that even a few people playing alternate accounts couldn't skew the data. You'd also need to ask several questions, some conflicting, so that you can draw deeper conclusions. And even then, after all that work, you'd still only be talking to people in game that haven't left yet.
"Taste maybe, but I dare you to find more logical and well reasoned posts in this thread than my own."
I certainly won't find anyone with a larger ego
"I didn't call you dumb. I called your understanding of a particular topic shallow and naive - though I'm getting dangerously close to pointing out the obvious and just being done with this moronic, baseless discussion with you."
Yes, I believe you said you could not dumb down your response to a level that I could understand. I'm not so dumb as to not realize when I'm being called dumb Oh an just a few paragraphs down, the term was "dumb ass". Enjoy your day knowing you needed to result to cursing at me in lieu of mounting a well thought out defense of your statements. I may have over estimated you by saying they were third grade taunts. Maybe kindergarten.
My statements still stand. You can name-call until the cows come home but it will not change the facts I've stated about CL and crafters. The CU is junk. The Devs, upon releasing it, in the state it's in, made a serious mistake. Their priorities were wrong in working on JTL before the CU. They've certinly had two years to develop the CU as they were the ones that created the original combat system. If combat was fundamentally flawed from that start, then again it's their own fault. And you criticized Bizzard for iterative design...sheesh! Finally, Squidi, please consider a therapist and some strong medication. Are you even aware of the things you're posting?
To Everyone Else:
Buyer beware, SWG does not work. Over half the professions are broken. If you're buying the game to play a Jedi know now that the Jedi system is broken to the point that it is impossible to advance in the profession. If you're buying then game to enter space, know that it's nothing like the acclaimed X-Wing series. It's much slower, much more boring. The Devs have been "fixing" it for two years and have a lousy track record for keeping their word. The devs will also ignore you even when things are hopelessly broken. The devs will delete your forum posts when you complain. Save yourself the trouble and frustration of this title and consider another game.
Oh, and if you do play SWG, it's possible you may bump into people like Squidi. That alone should keep 1000's of accounts from being created.
Squidi, you brought up some good points, and you merely restated what I was stating too. I said that the SWG poll was the "most accurate" of all the polls for the reasons that I stated above. It is rather late to do any off hand polls about the CU that would be more accurate without taking many precautions in how they do the polling. No one is going to spare the expense to do that. And since I still think the SWG poll just before the release of the CU was the most accurate of the polls out there. I also highly doubt that there were more than a few dozen people abusing the polling system (to the extreme you have stated) to vote against and FOR the CU.
I will end with this: I was a paying SWG player and have cancelled. I wanted a Combat "Revamp" but not this so called "combat upgrade" that was extremely poor in implimentation. Someone, or many people in SOE and Lucasarts screwed up royally. Never in the history of MMO gaming has an "upgrade" like this caused so much controversy. That right there should be a key telling point to anyone with some ability to think on their own the huge mistakes that were made by the developers/managers.
One last statement... again: SOE has lied to the public and players time and time again and that fact CANNOT be refuted by anyone seeing as the evidence is all over the internet. Aren't you the least bit offended that they keep lying to you, thereby insulting your intelligence? Are you going to keep taking it or have you been lied to so much in your life that you are used to it and now let people get away with it without calling them on it or/and doing something about it?
Originally posted by legacyguy Squidi, you brought up some good points, and you merely restated what I was stating too. I said that the SWG poll was the "most accurate" of all the polls for the reasons that I stated above. It is rather late to do any off hand polls about the CU that would be more accurate without taking many precautions in how they do the polling. No one is going to spare the expense to do that. And since I still think the SWG poll just before the release of the CU was the most accurate of the polls out there.
I disagree. I didn't participate in the poll at the time, because I felt it was far too early to make such finalizing comments. I still believe that, and I think that a lot of people who participated in that poll may have changed their minds since then. I've seen plenty of posts by people who said that they hated it at first and then grew to love it. I also didn't participate because it was silly and had zero chance of doing anything productive. I thought the anti-CU guys would get it out of the system (which they have, for the most part - this would've been a much longer thread a month ago), so I didn't see the need to represent my still on the fence viewpoint through it. I doubt many pro-CU people gave it much thought either.
I think that poll may be an accuracte representation of the initial outrage, but it doesn't represent the current outrage. Nor does it represent any sort of statement against the quality of the CU, or the future quality of it. I'd say that the whatever purpose that poll could've had, it's long gone now and to constantly refer back to it is more akin to holding a grudge than objectively assessing the quality of the CU.
I will end with this: I was a paying SWG player and have cancelled.
I had quit the game several times. Only with the CU and RotW have I come back to roost for a while. Not just me, but my wife as well. The CU may have lost you, but it gained two in return. Whether or not the difference evens out or not is missing the point. People left because of change, but people come back because of it as well.
Never in the history of MMO gaming has an "upgrade" like this caused so much controversy.
I don't know about that, but it is to be expected. In order to balance the game, everyone had to meet in the middle. Some got better and some got nerfed. Since a majority of the playerbase was playing the classes that didn't suck - the ones which got nerfed - it's to be expected that they would be upset. They only understand how they got screwed, and they absolutely refuse to admit that somehow the game could actually be better because of it. I mean, the whole game revolves around exactly the way they want to play it - even if destroys the future of the game.
That right there should be a key telling point to anyone with some ability to think on their own the huge mistakes that were made by the developers/managers.
I absolutely think you are upset, and I don't blame you. However, I don't think turning that anger against the devs is anything but passing the blame so that you can feel better about yourself. It's not your fault that you can't adapt. It's the devs fault for forcing you to when you weren't prepared for it. I think if you sat down and really thought about it, you'd see that even though the old way you played the game is now gone, the new way creates a more stable and enjoyable experience for ALL players. I'd gladly lose you and a thousand more like you from the game if it revitalized SWG to the point where more people wanted to play it and stay with it. Nothing personal, but I find the game far more playable than it has ever been before, and it kind of pisses me off, not that you dislike it, but that you are actively campaigning against it. It's literally you saying that your tastes are more important than mine, and if that's the way it has to be, then I guess I'm glad that you're the one quitting and I'm not.
One last statement... again: SOE has lied to the public and players time and time again and that fact CANNOT be refuted by anyone seeing as the evidence is all over the internet.
Which lies in particular are you talking about? Because they've said a lot of stuff. Some of it changed due to priorities. Some of it changed due to circumstances. Some of it just changed because. But I don't remember any situation where SOE purposely and willfully misrepresented the truth for the purpose of misleading the playerbase. Changes aren't lies. Still, if you are aware of some lie that is absolute irrefutable, I would be willing to concede this point.
Aren't you the least bit offended that they keep lying to you, thereby insulting your intelligence?
Well, SWG isn't my life. It's a game on the internet, and though I enjoy it quite a bit, I am well aware that it is always my decision whether or not I want to play it. I've kept track of SWG since day one. If anything, they haven't been insulting my intelligence. If they had, they wouldn't have said anything. Instead, they tell us too much - stuff that will NEVER happen, but they are still considering. It's up to us to sort the hyperbole born from brainstorming and the factual data that they share. That's not insulting my intelligence. That's relying on it.
Are you going to keep taking it or have you been lied to so much in your life that you are used to it and now let people get away with it without calling them on it or/and doing something about it?
If they ever do something I don't like, I'll cancel my subscription quietly and move on to a different game or something. If I felt that they were in any way mistreating me, I would leave. SWG is not my life, and frankly, I think it's a bit silly to get so angry over it.
I've been a game developer and I now have a rather popular webcomic that has been literally destroyed several times over by angry people on the internet, out of some misguided righteous indignation that not even they fully understand. I've had to do things that upset my fans but were right for the site, and I've had to deal with those consequences as well. Trust me when I say that angry mobs are angry mobs. They differ only in size, not beliefs or tactics.
I am not some angry player who feels that the world revovles around me. I've been where SOE is, though on a much smaller scale. I know why they did what they did and I know damn well that sometimes you have to screw you fans now for a better future - but that's not what I saw happen. I saw some very overworked people try to finish an expansion pack and significant rewrite of a combat system with an ungodly deadline and a psychotic, self-absorbed fan base trying to crucify them for it.
I'm sorry, but you are the one who is wrong - not them. If you don't like the CU, that's fine. That's personal taste. But to go around harassing people who do like it - that's just bully tactics, and it's a stupid and ignorant thing to do. Hate the CU, but don't pretend that everybody does, or that those who don't are somehow stupid or gullible. That's retarded. So leave the game. It will be better withone people like you there anyway.
Squidi, I am not angry. Read my first post above and you will see that, in not so many words, that I have moved on to other things and will check in once in a while see how this "upgrade progresses". I understand that you are angry that people are trashing your site(probably due to you supporting or fence sitting on this upgrade, I care not), but grouping me with those people is completely uncalled for and you have no basis to support that implied fact.
Again, I was referrencing to the poll that I believe, in my opinion, to be the most accurate. I doubt there are any other polls that will come as close. But as the combat upgrade is "fixed", I am sure that the numbers supporting it will improve, or atleast I hope for the sake of the game's life.
The lies I am referring to are the most famous and seemed to be referred to the most is the lie with Tiggs saying something to the effect "like only 50 people hate the combat upgrade". That one certainly angered alot of people. Not me, I was rather flabbergasted. I am probably one of the most rational people you will find who didn't support the upgrade in its initial form. Another one is the interview with Dallas and IGN?(I am fairly certain it was IGN). I believe there is a link on one of the many posts here(if someone reading this has the links or links to this or other lies, please feel free to post them for Squidi's sake). I am not going to bother pointing out others since I read and remember but don't save them. But I am sure you will use that as an excuse that I do not know what I am talking about. So be it. I am sure that if you remembered reading them you wouldn't like being lied to, or misrepresented in some cases, either.
Another thing, I challenge you to look into the history of MMO's and see if you can find something else that upset the player base more than this. You won't find it.
Remember I am not the angry, diehard, star wars, l33t dude that can't speak without profanity, and also likes to trash someone's elses comic site out of frustration and displaced revenge/anger. I am just a concerned ex-player that didn't like something that was implimented so I said my peace and moved on while checking back once in a while hoping that one day this game, in my view, will be playable again. I am in no way harassing and bullying people with my "stupid" and "ignorant" ways. Saying such tells me you are displacing your anger on me irrationally.
I am tired of this thread. I give you the last word.
Squidi, I am not angry. Read my first post above and you will see that, in not so many words, that I have moved on to other things and will check in once in a while see how this "upgrade progresses". A new interview, from the Fan Fest on swgvault.ign.com, has a developer stating that of the top 30 live issues, the next publish should have 20 of them taken care of. It was also mentioned that the planets would be revisited and the CLs of the natural spawning enemies would be rebalanced. Some things won't change, naturally, but as far as bug fixes go, it hardly seems like they are sleeping on the job. They've also said that they will be revamping Smuggler, Ranger, and Squad Leader - in that order - and are looking to see how they can make Entertainers more important. And they announced dockable capital ships, which at least for me, is a dream come true. I understand that you are angry that people are trashing your site(probably due to you supporting or fence sitting on this upgrade, I care not), but grouping me with those people is completely uncalled for and you have no basis to support that implied fact. It was unrelated. I only said that an angry mob was an angry mob. Once it reaches a certain point, logic and the passage of time ceases to function. They feed off the anger of each other, that anger swell WAY out of proportion to what is called for. What starts off as a simple complaint becomes a war of righteous indignation, stalemated due to the fact that one side refuses to admit defeat and the other refuses to be terrorized. An angry mob is characterized, not by the contributions of the individuals, but by the massiveness of it's campaign. Again, I was referrencing to the poll that I believe, in my opinion, to be the most accurate. I doubt there are any other polls that will come as close. But as the combat upgrade is "fixed", I am sure that the numbers supporting it will improve, or atleast I hope for the sake of the game's life. It's unfair to suggest that the game is in danger of dying. On Ahazi, I haven't seen it this busy in months. The subscription levels may be the same, but what does that really mean? Some guy with five accounts quits and gets replaced by five new accounts? That these new accounts are more active and actually playing the game, rather than merely statistics? I don't know. Whatever the case, SWG hasn't been in this good a shape in a long, long time. The lies I am referring to are the most famous and seemed to be referred to the most is the lie with Tiggs saying something to the effect "like only 50 people hate the combat upgrade". That's a lie? Come on. That's an exaggeration. She even used the words "like". What did you expect? Did you want Tiggs to count every single one of them? She merely stated that there weren't that many, and for all you know, there were only 50 that she had contact with. And understatement, maybe. But a lie? If that's the worse you've got then SOE is doing a hell of a lot better than you are pretending. That one certainly angered alot of people. Not me, I was rather flabbergasted. I am probably one of the most rational people you will find who didn't support the upgrade in its initial form. I understand that you found that statement offensive. I would have as well. But just because you are upset doesn't make it a lie. Another one is the interview with Dallas and IGN?(I am fairly certain it was IGN). I believe there is a link on one of the many posts here(if someone reading this has the links or links to this or other lies, please feel free to post them for Squidi's sake).http://pc.ign.com/articles/610/610552p1.html I assume you mean this article. I only read the comments by Dallas and skimmed the rest, but I didn't see anything that was a flat out lie in it. I am not going to bother pointing out others since I read and remember but don't save them. You haven't even pointed out one yet. Not definitively, at least. But I am sure you will use that as an excuse that I do not know what I am talking about. So be it. I am sure that if you remembered reading them you wouldn't like being lied to, or misrepresented in some cases, either. You see, you make it sound like I'm this big mean guy that is trying to twist all your words against you. It just seems to me that if you want to state that something is a fact, you should be willing and capable of backing that up. You have said that SOE has lied repeatedly, but you don't even remember how. You remember that they lied and that is all. I'm sorry. I'm sure you truly believe that SOE has been lying through their teeth, but I'm not going to just take your word for it. I don't think it is out of line to be able to request the facts behind what could be considered slander. Another thing, I challenge you to look into the history of MMO's and see if you can find something else that upset the player base more than this. You won't find it. I can't even think of a change that has been this significant and dominating that has happened A) to a game that has almost two years of established players, that significantly rewrote a great deal of what players already knew, and C) did so in such an absurdly limited amount of time for free while simultaneously launching an expansion pack. I'm surprised the outrage isn't greater. But I still content that the majority of this outrage spawns mostly from a mob mentality, or from having your cheesed moved, or simply opinion, and very little of it is a true reflection of the quality and promise of the CU. Remember I am not the angry, diehard, star wars, l33t dude that can't speak without profanity, and also likes to trash someone's elses comic site out of frustration and displaced revenge/anger. Actually, my site was attacked by the fans of Penny Arcade, and they make the l33t dudes you speak of seem positively pleasant in comparison. But you contribute to the mob, even if you don't degrade yourself to the status of the lowest and dumbest member. You come here and say that SOE lies without providing any backup, for the purpose of enraging others to your cause. You're recruiting new members, and you don't even realize that you are doing it. I am just a concerned ex-player that didn't like something that was implimented so I said my peace and moved on while checking back once in a while hoping that one day this game, in my view, will be playable again. Let's be fair. It's playable now. I play it all the time. Perhaps a better phrase would be "once again enjoyable to me" - puts the emphasis on personal preference rather than phrasing it as some sort of objective fact. I am in no way harassing and bullying people with my "stupid" and "ignorant" ways. Saying such tells me you are displacing your anger on me irrationally. I respond only to what you say. You seemed rather adamant that SOE was a lying sack of crap, and I disagree. However, the burden of proof lies with you. I know you are angry, and with that anger comes a tendency to exaggerate your views and downplay the views of others. I accept that, but what I'm trying to do is get rid of all that baggage. I want to discuss what really happened, factually, and if you continue to beat around the issue with hyperbole and misdirection, you can't blame me for getting frustrated. I am tired of this thread. I give you the last word. Never once, has a statement like this won an argument on the internet. I know you are trying to bow out of the discussion by saving some face, and I can appreciate that - but then why'd you have to post this stuff first? Why not just stop posting? It's just so irritatingly childish. You post would've been much more effective if you skipped these last two sentences.
a) SOE is publishing on their forum their plans about the future.
b) Players rejoice and start to count the days until the patch comes that makes this real.
c) Internally within SOE priorities changes, teams change, management changes, funding changes, or unexpected problems in implementing the changes have appeared ... you name it ... all in all leading to the plans mentioned in (a) to be changed, delayed or scrapped
now IMHO d) would be
d) SOE announces the change in plan with a more or less detailed description of why. They either post a revised schedule and/or revised plan and apologize that some things could not be implemented.
in reality d) is
d) .
.
.
.
.
.
** yes, silence can be deafening **
.
.
.
until e) Patch day comes and people eagerly want to try out the promised features finding ...
.
.
.
.
.
yes ... NOTHING.
which leads to
f) people being angry and accusing of SOE to be lying.
What I cannot understand is why SOE is doing that ? When other corps like CCP running EVE can and will give detailed info to their player base and doing mighty fine : http://www.eve-online.com/ I enjoy playing both SWG and EVE, but when you compare SOE with CCP in customer management, SOE has a LOOOOOng way to go.
In the past that was a nuisance, but since the CU this has grown into a literal media desaster. Especially on those places where gamers go to check out products before buying it ... websites like this, like amazon or other internet ordering companies or websites related to gaming magazines.
I understand that there was little time for your interview, but OH SO MUCH MORE info in this interview.
Have fun
Erillion
PS: Belisarius ... the poster above my post .. you might not like what other people are saying, but your post is not exactly informative either. Please edit it for something more than useless flaming.
Originally posted by Erillion What I cannot understand is why SOE is doing that ? I think the problem may be that the people who do the website and the forum are not the developers. It's possible that they don't actually work in the same building or even state as the developers. Even if they were, the developers may be absolutely terrible at communicating changes in direction. Yeah, that sucks (believe me, when I was a developer myself, I'd walk into someone's office only to find out that the project I'd been working on for three days was now obsolete and needed to be redone - that weekend). At a smaller company, this is less of an issue. The single greatest problem facing large companies is communication - it needs to happen more often, the feedback loop needs to be much shorter, and the communication has to be more consistent. That SOE is having trouble with this is not surprising, but I think the community reps have really tried to improve this situation several times (and failed). In the past that was a nuisance, but since the CU this has grown into a literal media desaster. Especially on those places where gamers go to check out products before buying it ... websites like this, like amazon or other internet ordering companies or websites related to gaming magazines. It's nasty, but I think the public relations nightmare is rather larger than the situation calls for. I think people feel hurt, and they want to hurt SOE back, and they do this by mounting a negative publicity campaign against them. My problem is that this campaign is nasty, not just against SOE, but also against the other players who don't care or disagree, and that someone can't write their opinion on a website like this without being attacked en masse by a horde of angry people. It's not SOE's fault that this article was attacked so viciously, and it's not the fault of the person who wrote it. I think we need to turn the blame where it properly belongs. Yes, SOE did some stuff that we didn't like, but it's time to calm down or move on so that the rebuilding can continue without being hampered or sabotaged by an undying grudge.
I had a whole long post all typed up, but my login expired and didnt post it.
Basicly, the problem rests with Customer Support at SOE.
If I order a Ham&Cheese(pre-CU) and they give me a Tuna Salad (post-CU), why should I eat it? Because they say I'll like it? Please, they dont know me from a hole in the ground. How could they even remotely understand what "I" like or dont?
And then to top it off with some of the most unfriendly, unhelpful, and totally dismissive CS that I've ever had the displeasure of running into.............
That and the new comercials are a joke. Wonder how many of those "players" are actually paid employee's of SOE?
I know a few people who have been asked to be filmed for these ads (in my case female players from my guild). These ARE actual players. You can see many SWG players here http://www.swg-faces.com/
No conspiracy theories here please. It gets sooo old soooo quick ....
Originally posted by Hardware-DC It is not a matter of SOE wont fix SWG, it is that they can't fix it. The engine SWG is built on is broken and they are unable to completely fix it to avoid lag issues and some of the crashing problems. SOE has put together one of the largest teams together to re-release SWG (SWG2) in the next year or so under a completely new engine that the data base will fit into. My irritation is, I am sure they will make the SWG community PAY for the re-release for a broken game we have been playing for a few years now, instead of just saying "we fucked up and we are trying our best to un-fuck it now". We shall see what happens in the future.
I so hope this is true I would love to see SWG on a engine that really fits the game.
As far as the CU I hated it at first but after playing around with it and even making a new character to see how much they changed the starting area and how you start in game I must say I was impressed. Lets just say it made me go with the all access pass.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
Originally posted by Blkcat That and the new comercials are a joke. Wonder how many of those "players" are actually paid employee's of SOE?
Firstly Lucas Arts owns the game, not SOE. It would be them placing them there. Get your companies straight. Secondly what exactly would it matter if it was actors or players? They were talking about what you can do in the game, not what they did in the game.
Now why don't you go complain out Travelocity.com somewhere since Willian Shatner doesn't use their service even though he advertises it.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by Fadeus Originally posted by Blkcat That and the new comercials are a joke. Wonder how many of those "players" are actually paid employee's of SOE?
Firstly Lucas Arts owns the game, not SOE. It would be them placing them there. Get your companies straight. Secondly what exactly would it matter if it was actors or players? They were talking about what you can do in the game, not what they did in the game.
Now why don't you go complain out Travelocity.com somewhere since Willian Shatner doesn't use their service even though he advertises it.
I seem to find it interesting how many of you Pro-CU players instantly flame anyone who seems even remotely negative towards it.
It was simply a "wonder", expressed by the fact that I typed in "wonder".
And what exactly does Travelocity.com have anything to do with Star Wars Galaxies? First off, William Shatner is a PAID spokesman for the company. They arent trying to begile anyone into believeing that he actually uses their services. However, the way the TV ads for SWG are running, it implies that these people are in fact players in the game. I just wondered how many of them are actually "players" and how many were paid for their performance?
If you like the CU so damn much, perhaps you should be in the game playing it, instead of on MMORPG.com flaming others for simply speaking their opinion.
Again, I wonder why, if you like it so much, your here, instead of there?
Again, I wonder why, if you like it so much, your here, instead of there?
Things that make you go "hum".
Then "hum" some more. I can read this forum in my work breaks, but not play the game. Now GUESS what I am doing in my work breaks :-) ! Office computers are not exactly gaming rigs and I THINK my employer would object (which is an electricity corp and not SOE :-)
And we do not instantly flame. In contrast to the 2000 "I hate it !" mails we have posted time and time again constructive posts (in the SWG part of this forum) to be successful post-CU. And if you look into this thread and others you will see harsh crticial remarks about SOE from us-pro-CU posters too ... but not a general flame, but specific points that need to be rebalanced.
And yes, we post in here to counter some of the "What a crappy game !" campaigns we have seen on this and other websites, which just intend to scare away new players which WILL have fun with SWG when joining an active community on an active server (and there are many such offers in the SWG section). We will NOT allow a few flamers to reign uncontested and give the game a bad name.
[quote]Originally posted by Blkcat I seem to find it interesting how many of you Pro-CU players instantly flame anyone who seems even remotely negative towards it.
It was simply a "wonder", expressed by the fact that I typed in "wonder".
And what exactly does Travelocity.com have anything to do with Star Wars Galaxies? First off, William Shatner is a PAID spokesman for the company. They arent trying to begile anyone into believeing that he actually uses their services. However, the way the TV ads for SWG are running, it implies that these people are in fact players in the game. I just wondered how many of them are actually "players" and how many were paid for their performance?
If you like the CU so damn much, perhaps you should be in the game playing it, instead of on MMORPG.com flaming others for simply speaking their opinion.
Again, I wonder why, if you like it so much, your here, instead of there?
Things that make you go "hum". [/b][/quote]
Instantly flamed? Give me a break, you have no idea what flamed is. Simply a wonder expression, ofcourse. Silly me, it was a totally innocent statement. How could I have not seen it before?!
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Flame-(n.) A searing e-mail or newsgroup message in which the writer attacks another participant in overly harsh, and often personal, terms. Flames are an unfortunate, but inevitable, element of unmoderated conferences.
Oh, I think I'm quite aware of what a flame is, thank you very much.
Your post was overly harsh, and attempted to try to shame me into silence as well as attempted to call into question my intellegence based on your Travelocity comment.
Seeing as how my post was directed at no one in particular, and was simply musing about things, your response was unwarrented. Now if you wish to have an open discussion based around the merits and or flaws of the current game, leave the ad hoc personal attacks at home.
FYI, SWG was developed and is run by SOE, not LA.
Known for its blockbuster franchises, EverQuest®, EverQuest® II and PlanetSide®, as well as for developing Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided, SOE continues to redefine the business of online gaming and the creation of active player communities while introducing new genres on various entertainment platforms.
Lucas Arts owns the licence for Star Wars. However, all advertising for the game, all development, and all coding is done by SOE. Sony pays Lucas Arts for the right to use Star Wars content in their game. Lucas Arts retains creative control over the franchise, but has little to do with the day to day operations of the game or its content.
So no, I was not incorrect for wondering if SOE payed any of the people that appeared in their commercial.
Comments
Dear Squidi,
"I like my plaque, so again, we'll put the value at personal preference, but the fact that they rewarded us when they didn't have to still stands."
Unbelievable. You obviously don't know when youre being patronized.
"No, but I can name you three bugs that I /bugged on Test Center that were fixed before the CU went live..."
How can you possibly defend SOE's handling of bugs when every single profession had a bug list as long as your arm? The argument that some bugs were just too hard to fix won't cut it for me. I'm a software engineer too and my company would never accept such an excuse form me. If I were to try that one I'd be cleaning out my office at the end of the week.
In regards to the level system you stated: "I've gotten used to it, and what can I say? It doesn't bother me at all. It's different, yes, and takes some getting used to, but it is hardly a deal breaker.".
Heres a deal breaker for ya. All non combat professions are completely useless. Crafters must venture out into the wilds in order to harvest resources. SWG encounter spawns, unlike most other MMORPG games, pop into existence when the character travels through a zone. The server, being slow as servers tend to be, will often not pop a spawn into existence until you are directly on top of it. This means that crafters, being combat lvl 1 or at most combat lvl 67, are often one shot killed by spawns that didn't exist a moment ago.
Previously, master craftsmen could also be a master pistoleer or riflemen or martial artists. That meant they were combat viable so the popping spawn problem wasn't such a big deal. If you say you've gotten used to the new way, I would bet you dont currently play a crafting profession.
I could go on about other deal breakers but that's the most heinous directly due to the new combat level implementation.
"Just a side note: It takes Blizzard about twice the time to make a game than any other company due to the fact that they can't pre-design ANYTHING. They completely scrapped Starcraft, Diablo II, and Warcraft III halfway through development and started over because their games sucked. They can only do iterative design, playing and testing and playing and testing, which is a piss poor way of designing."
Criticize Blizzard if you must but their games have something SWG has not achieved in the last two years....POLISH.
SOE and the SWG team obviously think theyve done the right thing. They keep saying so. That, my friend, is why Ive left the game. All this talk about companies needing to say good things about their product despite reality is, quite frankly, hog wash. Lying to the public to protect share holder value has given us Enron, Tyco, and World Com. We now live in a new age of capitalism, one in which the public demands an honest broker. Thats what I wanted form SOE, an honest apology from an honest broker.
SOE had over two years to work on this "CU". If they had to rush it out the door to match the movie and had to skip normal development cycle its their own fault. I have no sympathy for them. The movie has been scheduled for the last six years, the game's been live for almost two. If theyve been coding the CU for the last two years and the result is what was released, then I truly dont have any sympathy for them, because no one disputes what a bug ridden peice of junk the "CU" release was.
Good bye SWG. May the force be with you cause I wont be.
PS: My character was a Master Ranger/Master Riflemen. I always used buffs, had to. I always used composite armor, had to. Ive never soloed a Kyrate(sp?) dragon. Just thought Id throw that in before being accused of God Mode style play just to save time.
Checksix.
Ch3cksix
"Why didn't you? I mean, you say you can, but you didn't. If you want to "win" the argument and convince someone that the CU is the worst thing since Hitler, why offer less information than you have? Is it because you don't really have it?"
I was trying to stay on topic about combat level. I offer less information than I have in order to remain focused. If I had wanted to write an essay about the failings of the CU I would have done so.
The CU is not the worse thing since Hitler. The CU is part of a game. The holocust was the death of 6,000,000 people. I'm also not trying to "win" an argument. I'm trying to point out the falibility of your argument. Lets try to keep things in prospective without accuseing me of over reacting.
"You want to debate, fine, but don't bother which such flimsy logical fallacies in the future."
You're right, I should not have bet that you didn't play a crafting profesion. I will bet now that there is no accounting for taste, common sense or the ability to reason in some people. That means you
"Just out of curiosity, if you've left the game, why spend so much valuable hot air bitching about it? If you're done, be done and leave the rest of us alone."
Because others should be warned about this game before investing $50.00 + $14.99 / mo. Consider it a public service. If not "leaving you alone" can alert a potential user to the problems of the game, I consider it a reward well worth the price. Curiosity satisfied?
"This statement show such a naive understanding that it is literally beyond my ability to dumb down my response such that you would would be capable of reading."
Tell this to the guys now serving time in a Federal Prision. Then get back to me about my naivet'e. Oh and thank you for the third grade taunt, calling me dumb. Don't worry about dumbing down your responses, you're doing just fine
and finally, my favorite of your responses....
"No they didn't, dumb ass. It's been, what, six months top? They didn't even seriously talk about the CU until after JtL came out."
Not working on the CU until after the JTL expansion was a question of priority. Still their decision, still their fault. And again, thanks for the trip back to the third grade.
"Actually, it's the movie's fault."
Ok maybe this is my favorite of your responses. I really can't decide.
"So long. Farwell. Auf wiedersehn, Adieu"
Good bye to you also sir. May we never actually meet.
Ch3cksix
Vocal opposition may well be the right word... As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I have added a poll to our system on the subject. The bulk of voters have no opinion as expected (non-SWG players), but currently those in favor of the CU are winning the vote.
There is a vocal opposition, but it is not as if the entire playerbase up and quit.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Dana,
I'd like to see one more option on the poll for SWG:
* Improvement was necessary but CU was poorly implemented.
I'm sure you could word it better than I could.
Thanks,
Checksix
Ch3cksix
A poll on this website about the "Combat Upgrade", in my opinion, wouldn't be an accurate representation of the actual dividing points among the Star Wars Galaxies player base represented in the last 2 months before, initially, and after the combat upgrade.
Reason being is that there are many people who have quit the game and moved on. There are those that have quit and are continuing to voice their opinions. And there are also those (like me) that have moved on and will check up once in a while about the condition of the "Combat Upgrade" hoping against all odds that some miracle will come and change the game to what we had initially wanted. Then there are those that still play the game (they are for, against, or don't care much for the CU) that don't bother with, or even know about websites like these.
Basicly, the poll that was on Star Wars Galaxies' website before, and just after implimentation would be the most accurate of all the polls given that it was on the game's website (even though there are those that argue that only a small percentage actually visit the forums and can't accurately represent the entire player base. I say to those people; that is what a poll is: A targetted percentage of a targetted group) and many of us know what the poll results were of that poll: 80% against the current form of the released "Combat Upgrade".
"Taste maybe, but I dare you to find more logical and well reasoned posts in this thread than my own."
I certainly won't find anyone with a larger ego
"I didn't call you dumb. I called your understanding of a particular topic shallow and naive - though I'm getting dangerously close to pointing out the obvious and just being done with this moronic, baseless discussion with you."
Yes, I believe you said you could not dumb down your response to a level that I could understand. I'm not so dumb as to not realize when I'm being called dumb
Oh an just a few paragraphs down, the term was "dumb ass". Enjoy your day knowing you needed to result to cursing at me in lieu of mounting a well thought out defense of your statements. I may have over estimated you by saying they were third grade taunts. Maybe kindergarten.
My statements still stand. You can name-call until the cows come home but it will not change the facts I've stated about CL and crafters. The CU is junk. The Devs, upon releasing it, in the state it's in, made a serious mistake. Their priorities were wrong in working on JTL before the CU. They've certinly had two years to develop the CU as they were the ones that created the original combat system. If combat was fundamentally flawed from that start, then again it's their own fault. And you criticized Bizzard for iterative design...sheesh! Finally, Squidi, please consider a therapist and some strong medication. Are you even aware of the things you're posting?
To Everyone Else:
Buyer beware, SWG does not work. Over half the professions are broken. If you're buying the game to play a Jedi know now that the Jedi system is broken to the point that it is impossible to advance in the profession. If you're buying then game to enter space, know that it's nothing like the acclaimed X-Wing series. It's much slower, much more boring. The Devs have been "fixing" it for two years and have a lousy track record for keeping their word. The devs will also ignore you even when things are hopelessly broken. The devs will delete your forum posts when you complain. Save yourself the trouble and frustration of this title and consider another game.
Oh, and if you do play SWG, it's possible you may bump into people like Squidi. That alone should keep 1000's of accounts from being created.
Ch3cksix
Squidi, I am not angry. Read my first post above and you will see that, in not so many words, that I have moved on to other things and will check in once in a while see how this "upgrade progresses". I understand that you are angry that people are trashing your site(probably due to you supporting or fence sitting on this upgrade, I care not), but grouping me with those people is completely uncalled for and you have no basis to support that implied fact.
Again, I was referrencing to the poll that I believe, in my opinion, to be the most accurate. I doubt there are any other polls that will come as close. But as the combat upgrade is "fixed", I am sure that the numbers supporting it will improve, or atleast I hope for the sake of the game's life.
The lies I am referring to are the most famous and seemed to be referred to the most is the lie with Tiggs saying something to the effect "like only 50 people hate the combat upgrade". That one certainly angered alot of people. Not me, I was rather flabbergasted. I am probably one of the most rational people you will find who didn't support the upgrade in its initial form. Another one is the interview with Dallas and IGN?(I am fairly certain it was IGN). I believe there is a link on one of the many posts here(if someone reading this has the links or links to this or other lies, please feel free to post them for Squidi's sake). I am not going to bother pointing out others since I read and remember but don't save them. But I am sure you will use that as an excuse that I do not know what I am talking about. So be it. I am sure that if you remembered reading them you wouldn't like being lied to, or misrepresented in some cases, either.
Another thing, I challenge you to look into the history of MMO's and see if you can find something else that upset the player base more than this. You won't find it.
Remember I am not the angry, diehard, star wars, l33t dude that can't speak without profanity, and also likes to trash someone's elses comic site out of frustration and displaced revenge/anger. I am just a concerned ex-player that didn't like something that was implimented so I said my peace and moved on while checking back once in a while hoping that one day this game, in my view, will be playable again. I am in no way harassing and bullying people with my "stupid" and "ignorant" ways. Saying such tells me you are displacing your anger on me irrationally.
I am tired of this thread. I give you the last word.
"SOE lying .. not true "
OK, let me rephrase that. Scenario:
a) SOE is publishing on their forum their plans about the future.
b) Players rejoice and start to count the days until the patch comes that makes this real.
c) Internally within SOE priorities changes, teams change, management changes, funding changes, or unexpected problems in implementing the changes have appeared ... you name it ... all in all leading to the plans mentioned in (a) to be changed, delayed or scrapped
now IMHO d) would be
d) SOE announces the change in plan with a more or less detailed description of why. They either post a revised schedule and/or revised plan and apologize that some things could not be implemented.
in reality d) is
d) .
.
.
.
.
.
** yes, silence can be deafening **
.
.
.
until e) Patch day comes and people eagerly want to try out the promised features finding ...
.
.
.
.
.
yes ... NOTHING.
which leads to
f) people being angry and accusing of SOE to be lying.
What I cannot understand is why SOE is doing that ? When other corps like CCP running EVE can and will give detailed info to their player base and doing mighty fine : http://www.eve-online.com/ I enjoy playing both SWG and EVE, but when you compare SOE with CCP in customer management, SOE has a LOOOOOng way to go.
In the past that was a nuisance, but since the CU this has grown into a literal media desaster. Especially on those places where gamers go to check out products before buying it ... websites like this, like amazon or other internet ordering companies or websites related to gaming magazines.
Have fun
Erillion
Lepidus .... I made some harsh comments about your article. Here is what I think the article COULD have contained :
http://swvault.ign.com/View.php?view=DevNotes.Detail&id=60
I understand that there was little time for your interview, but OH SO MUCH MORE info in this interview.
Have fun
Erillion
PS: Belisarius ... the poster above my post .. you might not like what other people are saying, but your post is not exactly informative either. Please edit it for something more than useless flaming.
I had a whole long post all typed up, but my login expired and didnt post it.
Basicly, the problem rests with Customer Support at SOE.
If I order a Ham&Cheese(pre-CU) and they give me a Tuna Salad (post-CU), why should I eat it? Because they say I'll like it? Please, they dont know me from a hole in the ground. How could they even remotely understand what "I" like or dont?
And then to top it off with some of the most unfriendly, unhelpful, and totally dismissive CS that I've ever had the displeasure of running into.............
That and the new comercials are a joke. Wonder how many of those "players" are actually paid employee's of SOE?
None.
I know a few people who have been asked to be filmed for these ads (in my case female players from my guild). These ARE actual players. You can see many SWG players here http://www.swg-faces.com/
No conspiracy theories here please. It gets sooo old soooo quick ....
Have fun
Erillion
I so hope this is true I would love to see SWG on a engine that really fits the game.
As far as the CU I hated it at first but after playing around with it and even making a new character to see how much they changed the starting area and how you start in game I must say I was impressed. Lets just say it made me go with the all access pass.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
Firstly Lucas Arts owns the game, not SOE. It would be them placing them there. Get your companies straight. Secondly what exactly would it matter if it was actors or players? They were talking about what you can do in the game, not what they did in the game.
Now why don't you go complain out Travelocity.com somewhere since Willian Shatner doesn't use their service even though he advertises it.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Firstly Lucas Arts owns the game, not SOE. It would be them placing them there. Get your companies straight. Secondly what exactly would it matter if it was actors or players? They were talking about what you can do in the game, not what they did in the game.
Now why don't you go complain out Travelocity.com somewhere since Willian Shatner doesn't use their service even though he advertises it.
I seem to find it interesting how many of you Pro-CU players instantly flame anyone who seems even remotely negative towards it.
It was simply a "wonder", expressed by the fact that I typed in "wonder".
And what exactly does Travelocity.com have anything to do with Star Wars Galaxies? First off, William Shatner is a PAID spokesman for the company. They arent trying to begile anyone into believeing that he actually uses their services. However, the way the TV ads for SWG are running, it implies that these people are in fact players in the game. I just wondered how many of them are actually "players" and how many were paid for their performance?
If you like the CU so damn much, perhaps you should be in the game playing it, instead of on MMORPG.com flaming others for simply speaking their opinion.
Again, I wonder why, if you like it so much, your here, instead of there?
Things that make you go "hum".
Things that make you go "hum".
And we do not instantly flame. In contrast to the 2000 "I hate it !" mails we have posted time and time again constructive posts (in the SWG part of this forum) to be successful post-CU. And if you look into this thread and others you will see harsh crticial remarks about SOE from us-pro-CU posters too ... but not a general flame, but specific points that need to be rebalanced.
And yes, we post in here to counter some of the "What a crappy game !" campaigns we have seen on this and other websites, which just intend to scare away new players which WILL have fun with SWG when joining an active community on an active server (and there are many such offers in the SWG section). We will NOT allow a few flamers to reign uncontested and give the game a bad name.
Have fun
Erillion
[quote]Originally posted by Blkcat
I seem to find it interesting how many of you Pro-CU players instantly flame anyone who seems even remotely negative towards it.
It was simply a "wonder", expressed by the fact that I typed in "wonder".
And what exactly does Travelocity.com have anything to do with Star Wars Galaxies? First off, William Shatner is a PAID spokesman for the company. They arent trying to begile anyone into believeing that he actually uses their services. However, the way the TV ads for SWG are running, it implies that these people are in fact players in the game. I just wondered how many of them are actually "players" and how many were paid for their performance?
If you like the CU so damn much, perhaps you should be in the game playing it, instead of on MMORPG.com flaming others for simply speaking their opinion.
Again, I wonder why, if you like it so much, your here, instead of there?
Things that make you go "hum".
[/b][/quote]
Instantly flamed? Give me a break, you have no idea what flamed is. Simply a wonder expression, ofcourse. Silly me, it was a totally innocent statement. How could I have not seen it before?!
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Flame-(n.) A searing e-mail or newsgroup message in which the writer attacks another participant in overly harsh, and often personal, terms. Flames are an unfortunate, but inevitable, element of unmoderated conferences.
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/f/flame.html
Oh, I think I'm quite aware of what a flame is, thank you very much.
Your post was overly harsh, and attempted to try to shame me into silence as well as attempted to call into question my intellegence based on your Travelocity comment.
Seeing as how my post was directed at no one in particular, and was simply musing about things, your response was unwarrented. Now if you wish to have an open discussion based around the merits and or flaws of the current game, leave the ad hoc personal attacks at home.
FYI, SWG was developed and is run by SOE, not LA.
http://www.sonyonline.com/corp/press_releases/01142005_SWG_Added_To_Station_Access.html
Lucas Arts owns the licence for Star Wars. However, all advertising for the game, all development, and all coding is done by SOE. Sony pays Lucas Arts for the right to use Star Wars content in their game. Lucas Arts retains creative control over the franchise, but has little to do with the day to day operations of the game or its content.
So no, I was not incorrect for wondering if SOE payed any of the people that appeared in their commercial.