Why don't you get back on topic instead of trying to make this about me. I ignored your point because it's baseless. The capability to make more physiologically correct characters exists, but they don't need to use it because XY had Z game had such characters so it's ok?
Not trying to be about you. Just pointing out that your personal opinion is your own, not sure how you can speak for "tons" of people. I can't either, but I can look at the facts (not baseless generalizing) and see that there is an audience for what SOE is doing. You might not be part of it along with many others, but the numbers for it should be much greater looking around at other product popularity.
You are right they could make more "correct" models, but why? There is no rule book that they have to follow. It's their game and their design. If it looked "bad" compared to other stylized products, I would see the point, but currently it looks good considering the stage of development.
There is no good excuse for making the characters like this other than their stupid art design people got their way.
Again, your opinion, but they've given plenty of reasons that fit their design. If you choose to not listen, no one can change that. SOEmote, emotion in general, Heroic movement/combat, longevity, stepping outside the box, allows more flexibility, etc. Sure you could toss one or all of that away and go for a different look, but if you scrap the majority of the design, it is not longer the same game. Which I know some here would love.
The defenses here are simply excuse making. The EQ title is a lie, pure and simple, because nothing about the game is EQ, and making the game look ridiculous is the first evidence of the acrimony that the name carries.
Seems many fans disagree with you. In the end, someone will end up with a game to enjoy, others won't. No one is forcing anyone to be on either side of the fence.
That's because to accept the reality of this deficiency is to chip away at enthusiasm. Enthusiasm is fun, warm, and great to experience. But it also can cloud reason.
It seems just as many disagree with you, so go ahead and try to restate your enthusiasm argument, and I will refute it with equally meaningless talk of "Oh no they don't," but in the end the fact is that they chose a substandard way of representing the game, and the reasons for doing so are squarely in the purview of work desk convenience.
I also enjoy the "well Disney is popular and I like their movies," argument. I like Disney movies, and I would watch one purely to watch it. But I also watch things like Game of Thrones, Walking Dead, American Hustle, Avengers, etc. because there are great visuals and immersion to be had in watching something that my perception isn't constantly kicking back as proportioned like a fevered dream. Disney movies have their place, but if SOE thinks that any MMO that adults play on is family friendly they are out of their fucking minds.
Go spend five minutes in Archeage if you want to see what I mean. And Archeage is not special in this area, so it's no dig on AA, just a representation of the worst kind of interactions that you will see online. Turn off general chat you say? Ok what happens when your 12 year old steals an ore vein from someone, do you think you can get to ignore that fast?
- SOEmote, and Family Friendly don't hold water.
- The graphics do not match the Voxel Blobs, so No there.
- The longevity argument is true, they will still look like shit cartoons 40 years later--which has nothing to do with you as a consumer but it saves them time and money.
-Heroic Movement could have looked like Assassin's Creed or the new LoTR game, but because the dev team are all nursing newborns or something, they chose for it to look like the Marvel Buddies. Heroic Movement, and MOBA combat could have been achieved fine with realistic models.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Looking at the Barbarian picture up a few posts... Outside of the boots and face it is acceptable. Though it would look better if there was a cloak / cape coming over his shoulders that attach to those things ( arg I forget what they are called ) on the chest armor at the shoulder.
Not sure why the boots would be the size of his waste and both the size of the chest width.. Nonsense.
The problem is that the barbarian is closer to human norms, except he is a giant sized guy compared to humans, who are stunted and have Disney faces with hominid bodies. So you have to be a Barbarian to look halfway human (Albeit over-muscled), and if you play a human you will be a primate with a Disney face.
That isn't a Barbarian. They aren't one of the playable races at release unless I missed the announcement. That is a human that has been customized as far as I know. Character customization still exists in EQN.
Iook at the height scale as opposed to the other characters in the video when they get close. He is a barbarian.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
If EQN looks so much like a Disney movie it will naturally be associated with them, including their tone and their type or storytelling.
I agree and is why I hope that once they add more variation ("evil" races, mobs, atmosphere) that it will work itself out. Looking at the combat scenes from both SOE Lives, neither really screams Disney to me. Didn't seem any better/worse compared to EQ/EQ2 environments. Landmark is gum drops and sunshine, I'll accept that. EQN =/= Landmark.
Now if they show off the Iksar and they look like the Geico mascot, I'll jump right on board the anti-EQN cartoon ship. Luckily the concept art shown looks better then EQ's version, stylized or not. Won't even put EQ2's in the same league.
Then again there are plenty of rainbow colored Animes and other cartoons with fairly serious stories and they pull it off just fine. Obviously different genre/medium, but it is possible to go the extreme stylized look and still have a story that doesn't remind me of Mario.
On the other hand the Everquest franchise already has a quite large fan-base. I think it is risky to alienate the fans you have in order to get new ones. Maybe the people who play LoL don't want to play a sandbox mmo. I really hope SOE has a plan. Maybe I only speak for a minority, but there is one thing we can be sure of and that is that the vast majority of players doesn't want to be reminded of Disney movies all the time when they play EQN.
I don't think it is risky at all. No idea on the total number of people that played EQ/EQ2/EQOA, but I'm betting it isn't that impressive compared to the the average population of AAA games these days. May be a jerk move, but SOE is correct when they say if people prefer EQ/EQ2, play them then. No reason to stop. To those that aren't playing EQ/EQ2, they owe nothing. "Thanks for leaving our games to give money to the competition, here's a new game as your reward"?
Maybe the majority that play LoL might not like EQN or mmorpgs, but they are so huge (Jan 2014 - 27 million daily users), even a small fraction would crush anything EQ managed. Toss in SMITE fans which is much closer to EQN's combat and you'll have a few more, add in WoW fans or most likely ex-fans, toss in a few Minecrafters who might be looking for a story for once and skip Landmark, the numbers can add up very quickly.
I think there are enough gamers (not die hard XYZ fans) that enjoy quality products and don't mind crossing genres to make EQN a success if they live up to their own hype. I rarely see younger people (like less then 30 years old lol) slap labels on themselves these days. It's usually the older folks calling people "console twitch kiddies" or "casuals". Those not spending their time bickering on forums are simply gamers. I'm slightly older, but I enjoy a wide variety of genres, platforms, entertainment. I think we are SOE's target.
The same was said about WoW 10 years ago and it sure didn't suffer because of the art style. Which is the craziest thing. I know many of those out for the blood of SOE's art team played WoW, not sure how it becomes a big deal because EQ is connected.
Guess it is like you said that EQ and Disney shouldn't cross paths. I can see how some might believe this and it steps on their loyalty to a belief of what EQ has to be or else. Unfortunately the number of people that haven't played EQ or simply aren't as concerned far outnumber those that do. I'm an EQ fan and I'm not being alienated, I'd wager I'm not alone.
Overall, I don't think it is any one factor that is upsetting some here. I think as one put it, EQN just "sucks" from top to bottom. The art style is just the most in your face feature as it is literally right there staring back with giant eyes. Action combat, lack of strict classes and trinity, etc would still be topics of unhappiness regardless if EQN looked like any other game or style. It does suck that some EQ loyalists aren't willing to try something new to enjoy being back in Norrath, but the game is already past the point of going back and restarting for a vocal minority. As a fellow gamer, I feel for ya'll, but I hope everyone at least gives EQN a go, being F2P, there isn't anything to lose except maybe your dignity after playing in Disneylan er Norrath I mean
[quote] -Heroic Movement could have looked like Assassin's Creed or the new LoTR game, but because the dev team are all nursing newborns or something, they chose for it to look like the Marvel Buddies. Heroic Movement, and MOBA combat could have been achieved fine with realistic models. [/quote]
Once again...no it could not have looked like single player games without severely compromising game play. Every character on screen has to be rendered be every one in view. Everything you make "optimal" or "high quality" in animations and/or graphics affects this.
This is not to say I like the current look, but you must know that going as far as to say it could look as good as *insert SP game here* just wont work on most MMOs. If you expect to get a wide scope of players.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
[quote] -Heroic Movement could have looked like Assassin's Creed or the new LoTR game, but because the dev team are all nursing newborns or something, they chose for it to look like the Marvel Buddies. Heroic Movement, and MOBA combat could have been achieved fine with realistic models. [/quote]
Once again...no it could not have looked like single player games without severely compromising game play. Every character on screen has to be rendered be every one in view. Everything you make "optimal" or "high quality" in animations and/or graphics affects this.
This is not to say I like the current look, but you must know that going as far as to say it could look as good as *insert SP game here* just wont work on most MMOs. If you expect to get a wide scope of players.
I never said it had to Be those games, just more like that than what they made. I know the difference between a single player game's resources and what you have in an MMORPG.
You are mucking up my point so I will re-state.
They could have used movements that are just above human agility and speed capabilities and it would have looked fantastic.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
The problem is that the barbarian is closer to human norms, except he is a giant sized guy compared to humans, who are stunted and have Disney faces with hominid bodies. So you have to be a Barbarian to look halfway human (Albeit over-muscled), and if you play a human you will be a primate with a Disney face.
That isn't a Barbarian. They aren't one of the playable races at release unless I missed the announcement. That is a human that has been customized as far as I know. Character customization still exists in EQN.
Iook at the height scale as opposed to the other characters in the video when they get close. He is a barbarian.
They've announced all the playable races, assuming the Halfling mentioned on the livestream yesterday is to the last of the first 8 races, could just be an NPC race though. Highly doubting they are showing off a non-playable race as playable during SOE Live. Could be wrong, but I'd think they would of went "Oh btw, here's a Barbarian." Not sure what games you've played, but depending on how character creation works, it could be very easy to go from what you call a Barbarian to a "hominid" human by just sliding the height scale up or now and making a few features larger/smaller. Games like Aion took this to the extreme, but I wouldn't doubt if EQN has a decent variety of slider options.
Kind of like the Kerran that many laugh at. Could be all the "pelts" look as silly, but we've only see one in action. Other might look much better and whatever the lion version ends up looking like since they said they were still working on it (I wonder why). Great thing about these games, we don't have to depend on 5 faces and hairstyles like older games.
The problem is that the barbarian is closer to human norms, except he is a giant sized guy compared to humans, who are stunted and have Disney faces with hominid bodies. So you have to be a Barbarian to look halfway human (Albeit over-muscled), and if you play a human you will be a primate with a Disney face.
That isn't a Barbarian. They aren't one of the playable races at release unless I missed the announcement. That is a human that has been customized as far as I know. Character customization still exists in EQN.
Iook at the height scale as opposed to the other characters in the video when they get close. He is a barbarian.
They've announced all the playable races, assuming the Halfling mentioned on the livestream yesterday is to the last of the first 8 races, could just be an NPC race though. Highly doubting they are showing off a non-playable race as playable during SOE Live. Could be wrong, but I'd think they would of went "Oh btw, here's a Barbarian." Not sure what games you've played, but depending on how character creation works, it could be very easy to go from what you call a Barbarian to a "hominid" human by just sliding the height scale up or now and making a few features larger/smaller. Games like Aion took this to the extreme, but I wouldn't doubt if EQN has a decent variety of slider options.
Kind of like the Kerran that many laugh at. Could be all the "pelts" look as silly, but we've only see one in action. Other might look much better and whatever the lion version ends up looking like since they said they were still working on it (I wonder why). Great thing about these games, we don't have to depend on 5 faces and hairstyles like older games.
You could be right, but nothing about him matches the humans that have been seen thus far. He is too tall, his face is too long, he doesn't stand like he just got shot in the ass, and his legs aren't bowed.
I have no proof that he is a barbarian so I'll have to concede this point to you.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
It seems just as many disagree with you, so go ahead and try to restate your enthusiasm argument, and I will refute it with equally meaningless talk of "Oh no they don't,"
What are the most successful titles that went with a more "realistic" or whatever you want approach? I'm not talking about those of us bickering on this forum. I'm talking about the gaming community as a whole and beyond that even. WoW brought in millions of people that had never played an mmo, online game, or video game for that matter. Please tell me "oh no they didn't" while X game did that is more of what you are looking for.
I also enjoy the "well Disney is popular and I like their movies," argument. I like Disney movies, and I would watch one purely to watch it. But I also watch things like Game of Thrones, Walking Dead, American Hustle, Avengers, etc. because there are great visuals and immersion to be had in watching something that my perception isn't constantly kicking back as proportioned like a fevered dream. Disney movies have their place, but if SOE thinks that any MMO that adults play on is family friendly they are out of their fucking minds.
Again, where are you getting this from? Adults play "childish" games. Blizzard, MOBAs, Nintendo, heck EQ was family friendly. When I was 16 or so, I didn't feel like I was in an adult game, waving my hands with sparkles coming out wouldn't let that happen. EQ =/= Game of Thrones or Walking Dead. EQ wasn't/isn't/never has been an adult/mature franchise. If so, they did a terrible job at it, because it didn't have that impact on me at all.
-Heroic Movement could have looked like Assassin's Creed or the new LoTR game, but because the dev team are all nursing newborns or something, they chose for it to look like the Marvel Buddies. Heroic Movement, and MOBA combat could have been achieved fine with realistic models.
Very true they could of had similar animations with more realistic models, but it is a total package. They want everything to be "heroic" looking. Wouldn't look right to have Assassin Creed models jumping through the air like The Hulk. Nor have Disney looking characters walking around like "realistic" models. It is simply an overall design theme that they went with and I do not believe it was due to being lazy or the art team winning or anything. It just fits the overall vision of the game. You might not like that vision, but none of it is out of place within.
Honestly this is all rather pointless back and forth. Art style is 100% subjective and we either like something or we don't. In this case, your preference wasn't applied unfortunately. SOE isn't changing it and these circular conversations are rather tiresome. Still baffles me why you or others that appear to dislike all or a good amount of what SOE is doing are hanging around talking crap about it. I get you are upset and don't like where they've gone, but I hope you are at least getting some relief from venting. Personally can't wait until the game comes out and I can play it instead of having that time to play SOE fanboi which I feel stupid for doing
You could be right, but nothing about him matches the humans that have been seen thus far. He is too tall, his face is too long, he doesn't stand like he just got shot in the ass, and his legs aren't bowed.
I have no proof that he is a barbarian so I'll have to concede this point to you.
Could you link me to a vid/screen shot of this "shot in the ass, bowed legs" thing?
While the characters are still a bit too floaty, I don't really see a lot wrong with their animations. Pretty fluid, even with the super speed of everything.
If you are specifically talking about the class video from SOE Live 14, I think everything looks weird because they use the stupid panning spectator view instead of actual player POV.
It seems just as many disagree with you, so go ahead and try to restate your enthusiasm argument, and I will refute it with equally meaningless talk of "Oh no they don't,"
What are the most successful titles that went with a more "realistic" or whatever you want approach? I'm not talking about those of us bickering on this forum. I'm talking about the gaming community as a whole and beyond that even. WoW brought in millions of people that had never played an mmo, online game, or video game for that matter. Please tell me "oh no they didn't" while X game did that is more of what you are looking for.
I also enjoy the "well Disney is popular and I like their movies," argument. I like Disney movies, and I would watch one purely to watch it. But I also watch things like Game of Thrones, Walking Dead, American Hustle, Avengers, etc. because there are great visuals and immersion to be had in watching something that my perception isn't constantly kicking back as proportioned like a fevered dream. Disney movies have their place, but if SOE thinks that any MMO that adults play on is family friendly they are out of their fucking minds.
Again, where are you getting this from? Adults play "childish" games. Blizzard, MOBAs, Nintendo, heck EQ was family friendly. When I was 16 or so, I didn't feel like I was in an adult game, waving my hands with sparkles coming out wouldn't let that happen. EQ =/= Game of Thrones or Walking Dead. EQ was/is/never has been an adult/mature franchise. If so, they did a terrible job at it, because it didn't have that impact on me at all.
-Heroic Movement could have looked like Assassin's Creed or the new LoTR game, but because the dev team are all nursing newborns or something, they chose for it to look like the Marvel Buddies. Heroic Movement, and MOBA combat could have been achieved fine with realistic models.
Very true they could of had similar animations with more realistic models, but it is a total package. They want everything to be "heroic" looking. Wouldn't look right to have Assassin Creed models jumping through the air like The Hulk. Nor have Disney looking characters walking around like "realistic" models. It is simply an overall design theme that they went with and I do not believe it was due to being lazy or the art team winning or anything. It just fits the overall vision of the game. You might not like that vision, but none of it is out of place within.
Honestly this is all rather pointless back and forth. Art style is 100% subjective and we either like something or we don't. In this case, your preference wasn't applied unfortunately. SOE isn't changing it and these circular conversations are rather tiresome. Still baffles me why you or others that appear to dislike all or a good amount of what SOE is doing are hanging around talking crap about it. I get you are upset and don't like where they've gone, but I hope you are at least getting some relief from venting. Personally can't wait until the game comes out and I can play it instead of having that time to play SOE fanboi which I feel stupid for doing
Yeah the back and forth does nothing, and you are 100% right there. The point I am tying to make by using those mature shows as an example is that there are colors on the palette of storytelling that I feel they completely shut down by making the world feel like they did by choosing this appearance. EQ was not GoT, but it wasn't The Wiggles either. In my opinion they have made a terrible error in hamstringing their lore and events by making them look like something that can't be taken seriously.
There is some venting going on, and some great disappointment that EQNext will be the first EQ game that my group will not play. So that's part of it.
I don't feel like it is right that people not get the other side of the perspective in stories about EQNext here, so I chime in. I believe a great many people are happy with EQNext, but a great many aren't either.
I'm trying to be honest and accurate when I talk about EQNext, but some of this stuff is just plain subjective. Any observer can see that there are many sides to this story.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Yeah the back and forth does nothing, and you are 100% right there. The point I am tying to make by using those mature shows as an example is that there are colors on the palette of storytelling that I feel they completely shut down by making the world feel like they did by choosing this appearance. EQ was not GoT, but it wasn't The Wiggles either. In my opinion they have made a terrible error in hamstringing their lore and events by making them look like something that can't be taken seriously.
I think that is one of the issues. Why does the game have to be taken "seriously?" It is a game. When I first logged into EQ in 99, I didn't feel like I was in a live action serious virtual world. I felt like I was in a kick ass game and was amazed someone had turned PnP/MUDs into a game where I could have fun with a bunch of other geeks. EQ was never serious to me. Sure there were some "scary" mobs and night made you hug zone walls, but it wasn't like EQ was giving my nightmares or anything. I wouldn't expect to see cursing, nudity, excessive blood/gore, extreme violence, etc in an EQ game. Nothing wrong with that, but EQ =/= Dark Souls. Seems some have this opinion that since we grew up, that the games have to as well. That doesn't seem to be how video games work.
If you've read any of the novellas, they are all fairly "serious" in nature with racism, slavery, violence galore. Obviously SOE plans to bring this into the game somehow, regardless of the art style. Either they are clueless about their own game/vision or it will all make sense eventually.
There is some venting going on, and some great disappointment that EQNext will be the first EQ game that my group will not play. So that's part of it.
I don't feel like it is right that people not get the other side of the perspective in stories about EQNext here, so I chime in. I believe a great many people are happy with EQNext, but a great many aren't either.
I'm trying to be honest and accurate when I talk about EQNext, but some of this stuff is just plain subjective. Any observer can see that there are many sides to this story.
Very true. Since EQN will be F2P, people can give EQN a try and uninstall it instantly or keep on going. I bet if EQN is empty after a month or two, SOE might start scratching their heads. Unfortunately no one can tell the future and they've set things in motion. I'm staying positive as if EQN flops, I'll be putting in my own pink slip for quite a while. Luckily EQN looks good to me, but it could still turn out poorly.
[quote] -Heroic Movement could have looked like Assassin's Creed or the new LoTR game, but because the dev team are all nursing newborns or something, they chose for it to look like the Marvel Buddies. Heroic Movement, and MOBA combat could have been achieved fine with realistic models. [/quote]
Once again...no it could not have looked like single player games without severely compromising game play. Every character on screen has to be rendered be every one in view. Everything you make "optimal" or "high quality" in animations and/or graphics affects this.
This is not to say I like the current look, but you must know that going as far as to say it could look as good as *insert SP game here* just wont work on most MMOs. If you expect to get a wide scope of players.
I never said it had to Be those games, just more like that than what they made. I know the difference between a single player game's resources and what you have in an MMORPG.
You are mucking up my point so I will re-state.
They could have used movements that are just above human agility and speed capabilities and it would have looked fantastic.
I'm not mucking up your point...you are. You pointed out two of the best looking and best animated SP games to date to say what they could have done in an MMO. Yet...it can't be done to that scale in any MMO without huge drops in FPS and processing. I understand what you mean, but you reached too far.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
[quote] -Heroic Movement could have looked like Assassin's Creed or the new LoTR game, but because the dev team are all nursing newborns or something, they chose for it to look like the Marvel Buddies. Heroic Movement, and MOBA combat could have been achieved fine with realistic models. [/quote]
Once again...no it could not have looked like single player games without severely compromising game play. Every character on screen has to be rendered be every one in view. Everything you make "optimal" or "high quality" in animations and/or graphics affects this.
This is not to say I like the current look, but you must know that going as far as to say it could look as good as *insert SP game here* just wont work on most MMOs. If you expect to get a wide scope of players.
I never said it had to Be those games, just more like that than what they made. I know the difference between a single player game's resources and what you have in an MMORPG.
You are mucking up my point so I will re-state.
They could have used movements that are just above human agility and speed capabilities and it would have looked fantastic.
I'm not mucking up your point...you are. You pointed out two of the best looking and best animated SP games to date to say what they could have done in an MMO. Yet...it can't be done to that scale in any MMO without huge drops in FPS and processing. I understand what you mean, but you reached too far.
Ok well, good deal.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
[quote] -Heroic Movement could have looked like Assassin's Creed or the new LoTR game, but because the dev team are all nursing newborns or something, they chose for it to look like the Marvel Buddies. Heroic Movement, and MOBA combat could have been achieved fine with realistic models. [/quote]
Once again...no it could not have looked like single player games without severely compromising game play. Every character on screen has to be rendered be every one in view. Everything you make "optimal" or "high quality" in animations and/or graphics affects this.
This is not to say I like the current look, but you must know that going as far as to say it could look as good as *insert SP game here* just wont work on most MMOs. If you expect to get a wide scope of players.
I never said it had to Be those games, just more like that than what they made. I know the difference between a single player game's resources and what you have in an MMORPG.
You are mucking up my point so I will re-state.
They could have used movements that are just above human agility and speed capabilities and it would have looked fantastic.
I'm not mucking up your point...you are. You pointed out two of the best looking and best animated SP games to date to say what they could have done in an MMO. Yet...it can't be done to that scale in any MMO without huge drops in FPS and processing. I understand what you mean, but you reached too far.
You completely jumped off the deep end. The graphics couldnt really be done in an MMO ( though Black Desert looks close ) but the animations could easily. However for balance reasons I doubt all the wall climbing would be a success in an MMORPG environment.
As per the posted screenshot earlier. It is a Barbarian. At SOE FanFaire that had Humans , Dark Elves and Barbarians fighting.
You completely jumped off the deep end. The graphics couldnt really be done in an MMO ( though Black Desert looks close ) but the animations could easily. However for balance reasons I doubt all the wall climbing would be a success in an MMORPG environment.
Black Desert is a nice looking game, when strolling through town, soloing or even small groups, it looks damn impressive. Unfortunately between the UI and extra layers of sparkle, it ends up looking like this when you factor in the whole mmo aspect. Would love for more games to go this route, maybe with a bit less Eastern flair as they all have a common look, but voxels and the more "heroic" stuff SOE is going for probably couldn't work in the BD engine/design.
I'll admit my exp with games like Assassins's Creed are watching others as I can't really play single player games or that style in general. They did add in ledge grabbing last month to Landmark and I'm assuming more of these animations/movements will come in later on. So while it will never be AC/Mordor worthy, might be a bit more interesting then nothing beyond jumping up and down like most games. Rather not see every single race/class be a ninja, but I doubt that will happen.
As per the posted screenshot earlier. It is a Barbarian. At SOE FanFaire that had Humans , Dark Elves and Barbarians fighting.
Any proof of this beyond your opinion of what a "Barbarian" must look like? They've already released the starting races and Barbs didn't make the cut. They will be a "race" in some fashion, but I'm betting it will simply be an offshoot tribe of humans instead of an entirely different race like EQ. Much like they are doing with the Elves. There are just Elves without wood, half, dark, etc. The DE in EQN have been changed into what they are but were originally Elves, not an entirely different race from the start.
You have proved that cartoons look like cartoons perpetually. However, technology advances, and so EQ characters that were fine in 2000 are not so fine in 2014. But according to you, if they would have made bugs bunny, then there would be no reason to update EQ.
The problem is that the capability is available to do graphics that look more realistic, are tuned to current average machines, and could be updated later if your game is successful. I'm talking like 10 years later, because no one is going to stop playing your game because your realistic characters are not looking as nice as cartoons.
And don't give me that Valley bullshit. That was not an experiment meant to gauge what people would like to have in video games.
Finally, this is a financial excuse that benefits only the Devs that you are giving for features in an entertainment product. It's a retarded move to skimp on this part of the game, and therefore alienate customers.
Then again maybe it's not so dumb, as there are amateur enablers out there willing to champion this fucking garbage.
You see now you prove you don't really have an argument just an outlandish reactionary stance.
as I have shown, the stylized rendition of a rabbit is a stylized rendition that will last for years.
Your argument, such as it is, is "because technology is better and can render a more realistic art design, there must be realistic art design.
And yeah, I do agree that a company "could" update their designs as technology gets better. But that is a large cost to their game.
It still doesn't set aside that stylistic art designs are just that "stylized". They are not better or worse except when compared to preference.
And to be clear, my preference is realistic art design. Without question. But I don't then look at stylized art design and look at it as being "inferior" just something that doesn't align with my preferences.
Stylized art design ages better. I've stated those reasons above. These EQ designs do have a disneyfied look but they will still have that disneyfied look 10 years from now. A game with "realistic" art design will look old and haggard 10 years from now.
I mean "heck" even Diablo III went the stylized route. Would I have preferred a darker, more realistic rendering of that game world? Sure. But Their designers wanted something different.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I don't mind that companies go with stylized art.. Actually I prefer it more so then realistic graphics like Call of Duty.. I play fantasy and I prefer the art to be fantasy too.. However, that doesn't mean I want characters limited to Momma's boy Disney style either.. I think Dark Elves aren't DARK enough.. At least the ones that I've seen.. I like the choice of either going pretty, average or ugly when creating a character.. If I'm playing an evil Shadow Knight, I don't want to look like Howdy Doody
Originally posted by Rydeson I don't mind that companies go with stylized art.. Actually I prefer it more so then realistic graphics like Call of Duty.. I play fantasy and I prefer the art to be fantasy too.. However, that doesn't mean I want characters limited to Momma's boy Disney style either.. I think Dark Elves aren't DARK enough.. At least the ones that I've seen.. I like the choice of either going pretty, average or ugly when creating a character.. If I'm playing an evil Shadow Knight, I don't want to look like Howdy Doody
This sounds to me like you are saying that the faction and races you won't be playing can look like shit but you want the EVIL stuff to look evil. Well guess what, they look cartoony just like the good side. Stylized means everyone looks like a clay model.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
You have proved that cartoons look like cartoons perpetually. However, technology advances, and so EQ characters that were fine in 2000 are not so fine in 2014. But according to you, if they would have made bugs bunny, then there would be no reason to update EQ.
The problem is that the capability is available to do graphics that look more realistic, are tuned to current average machines, and could be updated later if your game is successful. I'm talking like 10 years later, because no one is going to stop playing your game because your realistic characters are not looking as nice as cartoons.
And don't give me that Valley bullshit. That was not an experiment meant to gauge what people would like to have in video games.
Finally, this is a financial excuse that benefits only the Devs that you are giving for features in an entertainment product. It's a retarded move to skimp on this part of the game, and therefore alienate customers.
Then again maybe it's not so dumb, as there are amateur enablers out there willing to champion this fucking garbage.
You see now you prove you don't really have an argument just an outlandish reactionary stance.
as I have shown, the stylized rendition of a rabbit is a stylized rendition that will last for years.
Your argument, such as it is, is "because technology is better and can render a more realistic art design, there must be realistic art design.
And yeah, I do agree that a company "could" update their designs as technology gets better. But that is a large cost to their game.
It still doesn't set aside that stylistic art designs are just that "stylized". They are not better or worse except when compared to preference.
And to be clear, my preference is realistic art design. Without question. But I don't then look at stylized art design and look at it as being "inferior" just something that doesn't align with my preferences.
Stylized art design ages better. I've stated those reasons above. These EQ designs do have a disneyfied look but they will still have that disneyfied look 10 years from now. A game with "realistic" art design will look old and haggard 10 years from now.
I mean "heck" even Diablo III went the stylized route. Would I have preferred a darker, more realistic rendering of that game world? Sure. But Their designers wanted something different.
I have delivered both, but you are choosing to focus on my emotional reaction to their decision.
And again, who cares if 10 years down the road the models don't compete, you either fix it or you let it stand, but it's ridiculous to be thinking that they have such a stellar hit on their hands that ten years down the road they will be under the microscope. If this situation did arise you could fix it by updating graphics.
This is excuse is the weakest of them all. Nobody will give a shit either way at the ten year mark, and unless the game performs like WoW it won't matter. This is WoW clone thinking at it's best.
I applaud you for your sense of taste in reference to Diablo and such, and it shows me that you have some sense of what creatively EQNext has lost in this decision. Entertainment products are not better for the creators pinching pennies on the very face of the product.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
There is a lot to like about the direction EQN takes.
But what keeps me on the fence are the cartoon graphics and the overdone combat effects. I don't want a sound and light show when a character simply swings a weapon. Thor may cause earthquakes when he slams Mjolnir down, but does everyone have to?
Less is sometimes more. I have the impression they are targeting the sugary cereal 13 year old audience. This is fine for the little ones...I remember being 13 years old too - you run in circles and want action, action action, now, now, now.
But what about the more mature players? Button mashing Donkey Kong is not what we hoped EQN would be.
[quote] -Heroic Movement could have looked like Assassin's Creed or the new LoTR game, but because the dev team are all nursing newborns or something, they chose for it to look like the Marvel Buddies. Heroic Movement, and MOBA combat could have been achieved fine with realistic models. [/quote]
Once again...no it could not have looked like single player games without severely compromising game play. Every character on screen has to be rendered be every one in view. Everything you make "optimal" or "high quality" in animations and/or graphics affects this.
This is not to say I like the current look, but you must know that going as far as to say it could look as good as *insert SP game here* just wont work on most MMOs. If you expect to get a wide scope of players.
I never said it had to Be those games, just more like that than what they made. I know the difference between a single player game's resources and what you have in an MMORPG.
You are mucking up my point so I will re-state.
They could have used movements that are just above human agility and speed capabilities and it would have looked fantastic.
I'm not mucking up your point...you are. You pointed out two of the best looking and best animated SP games to date to say what they could have done in an MMO. Yet...it can't be done to that scale in any MMO without huge drops in FPS and processing. I understand what you mean, but you reached too far.
You completely jumped off the deep end. The graphics couldnt really be done in an MMO ( though Black Desert looks close ) but the animations could easily. However for balance reasons I doubt all the wall climbing would be a success in an MMORPG environment.
As per the posted screenshot earlier. It is a Barbarian. At SOE FanFaire that had Humans , Dark Elves and Barbarians fighting.
Yeah...the deep end...
Although you agreed with the graphics and really couldn't give a realistic reason as to how the animations would work. In fact you went against animations a bit.
But yeah...deep end. Thanks for your non intended support.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
[quote] -Heroic Movement could have looked like Assassin's Creed or the new LoTR game, but because the dev team are all nursing newborns or something, they chose for it to look like the Marvel Buddies. Heroic Movement, and MOBA combat could have been achieved fine with realistic models. [/quote]
Once again...no it could not have looked like single player games without severely compromising game play. Every character on screen has to be rendered be every one in view. Everything you make "optimal" or "high quality" in animations and/or graphics affects this.
This is not to say I like the current look, but you must know that going as far as to say it could look as good as *insert SP game here* just wont work on most MMOs. If you expect to get a wide scope of players.
I never said it had to Be those games, just more like that than what they made. I know the difference between a single player game's resources and what you have in an MMORPG.
You are mucking up my point so I will re-state.
They could have used movements that are just above human agility and speed capabilities and it would have looked fantastic.
I'm not mucking up your point...you are. You pointed out two of the best looking and best animated SP games to date to say what they could have done in an MMO. Yet...it can't be done to that scale in any MMO without huge drops in FPS and processing. I understand what you mean, but you reached too far.
You completely jumped off the deep end. The graphics couldnt really be done in an MMO ( though Black Desert looks close ) but the animations could easily. However for balance reasons I doubt all the wall climbing would be a success in an MMORPG environment.
As per the posted screenshot earlier. It is a Barbarian. At SOE FanFaire that had Humans , Dark Elves and Barbarians fighting.
Yeah...the deep end...
Although you agreed with the graphics and really couldn't give a realistic reason as to how the animations would work. In fact you went against animations a bit.
But yeah...deep end. Thanks for your non intended support.
I just want to make sure I am understanding what you are saying.
You are saying that the direct comparison to SPG graphics and animations is inappropriate because the two things are dissimilar enough technology-wise that the analogy is poor. Right?
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
[quote] -Heroic Movement could have looked like Assassin's Creed or the new LoTR game, but because the dev team are all nursing newborns or something, they chose for it to look like the Marvel Buddies. Heroic Movement, and MOBA combat could have been achieved fine with realistic models. [/quote]
Once again...no it could not have looked like single player games without severely compromising game play. Every character on screen has to be rendered be every one in view. Everything you make "optimal" or "high quality" in animations and/or graphics affects this.
This is not to say I like the current look, but you must know that going as far as to say it could look as good as *insert SP game here* just wont work on most MMOs. If you expect to get a wide scope of players.
I never said it had to Be those games, just more like that than what they made. I know the difference between a single player game's resources and what you have in an MMORPG.
You are mucking up my point so I will re-state.
They could have used movements that are just above human agility and speed capabilities and it would have looked fantastic.
I'm not mucking up your point...you are. You pointed out two of the best looking and best animated SP games to date to say what they could have done in an MMO. Yet...it can't be done to that scale in any MMO without huge drops in FPS and processing. I understand what you mean, but you reached too far.
You completely jumped off the deep end. The graphics couldnt really be done in an MMO ( though Black Desert looks close ) but the animations could easily. However for balance reasons I doubt all the wall climbing would be a success in an MMORPG environment.
As per the posted screenshot earlier. It is a Barbarian. At SOE FanFaire that had Humans , Dark Elves and Barbarians fighting.
Yeah...the deep end...
Although you agreed with the graphics and really couldn't give a realistic reason as to how the animations would work. In fact you went against animations a bit.
But yeah...deep end. Thanks for your non intended support.
I just want to make sure I am understanding what you are saying.
You are saying that the direct comparison to SPG graphics and animations is inappropriate because the two things are dissimilar enough technology-wise that the analogy is poor. Right?
There is no analogy here....SP graphics and/or animations are much better for a reason the you...and others...I guess just refuse to see. You CAN have them in MMOs, but...well it's been said before. Why keep on about things that players can't grasp.
MMOs as a whole will not have the most realistic character visuals...deal with it or learn why.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
[quote] -Heroic Movement could have looked like Assassin's Creed or the new LoTR game, but because the dev team are all nursing newborns or something, they chose for it to look like the Marvel Buddies. Heroic Movement, and MOBA combat could have been achieved fine with realistic models. [/quote]
Once again...no it could not have looked like single player games without severely compromising game play. Every character on screen has to be rendered be every one in view. Everything you make "optimal" or "high quality" in animations and/or graphics affects this.
This is not to say I like the current look, but you must know that going as far as to say it could look as good as *insert SP game here* just wont work on most MMOs. If you expect to get a wide scope of players.
I never said it had to Be those games, just more like that than what they made. I know the difference between a single player game's resources and what you have in an MMORPG.
You are mucking up my point so I will re-state.
They could have used movements that are just above human agility and speed capabilities and it would have looked fantastic.
I'm not mucking up your point...you are. You pointed out two of the best looking and best animated SP games to date to say what they could have done in an MMO. Yet...it can't be done to that scale in any MMO without huge drops in FPS and processing. I understand what you mean, but you reached too far.
You completely jumped off the deep end. The graphics couldnt really be done in an MMO ( though Black Desert looks close ) but the animations could easily. However for balance reasons I doubt all the wall climbing would be a success in an MMORPG environment.
As per the posted screenshot earlier. It is a Barbarian. At SOE FanFaire that had Humans , Dark Elves and Barbarians fighting.
Yeah...the deep end...
Although you agreed with the graphics and really couldn't give a realistic reason as to how the animations would work. In fact you went against animations a bit.
But yeah...deep end. Thanks for your non intended support.
I just want to make sure I am understanding what you are saying.
You are saying that the direct comparison to SPG graphics and animations is inappropriate because the two things are dissimilar enough technology-wise that the analogy is poor. Right?
There is no analogy here....SP graphics and/or animations are much better for a reason the you...and others...I guess just refuse to see. You CAN have them in MMOs, but...well it's been said before. Why keep on about things that players can't grasp.
MMOs as a whole will not have the most realistic character visuals...deal with it or learn why.
I was trying to get clarification but you appear to be fixated on what is really a fine distinction. I tried to go your way on this but you are socially inept, so I will just tell you that you are bitching about people making a peripheral comparison within software. Nobody said what you thought they said from the beginning.
Quit bitching because you think you have the Graphics in a Video Game Hall monitor badge. You're off topic and just looking to be arrogant.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Comments
That's because to accept the reality of this deficiency is to chip away at enthusiasm. Enthusiasm is fun, warm, and great to experience. But it also can cloud reason.
It seems just as many disagree with you, so go ahead and try to restate your enthusiasm argument, and I will refute it with equally meaningless talk of "Oh no they don't," but in the end the fact is that they chose a substandard way of representing the game, and the reasons for doing so are squarely in the purview of work desk convenience.
I also enjoy the "well Disney is popular and I like their movies," argument. I like Disney movies, and I would watch one purely to watch it. But I also watch things like Game of Thrones, Walking Dead, American Hustle, Avengers, etc. because there are great visuals and immersion to be had in watching something that my perception isn't constantly kicking back as proportioned like a fevered dream. Disney movies have their place, but if SOE thinks that any MMO that adults play on is family friendly they are out of their fucking minds.
Go spend five minutes in Archeage if you want to see what I mean. And Archeage is not special in this area, so it's no dig on AA, just a representation of the worst kind of interactions that you will see online. Turn off general chat you say? Ok what happens when your 12 year old steals an ore vein from someone, do you think you can get to ignore that fast?
- SOEmote, and Family Friendly don't hold water.
- The graphics do not match the Voxel Blobs, so No there.
- The longevity argument is true, they will still look like shit cartoons 40 years later--which has nothing to do with you as a consumer but it saves them time and money.
-Heroic Movement could have looked like Assassin's Creed or the new LoTR game, but because the dev team are all nursing newborns or something, they chose for it to look like the Marvel Buddies. Heroic Movement, and MOBA combat could have been achieved fine with realistic models.
Iook at the height scale as opposed to the other characters in the video when they get close. He is a barbarian.
Overall, I don't think it is any one factor that is upsetting some here. I think as one put it, EQN just "sucks" from top to bottom. The art style is just the most in your face feature as it is literally right there staring back with giant eyes. Action combat, lack of strict classes and trinity, etc would still be topics of unhappiness regardless if EQN looked like any other game or style. It does suck that some EQ loyalists aren't willing to try something new to enjoy being back in Norrath, but the game is already past the point of going back and restarting for a vocal minority. As a fellow gamer, I feel for ya'll, but I hope everyone at least gives EQN a go, being F2P, there isn't anything to lose except maybe your dignity after playing in Disneylan er Norrath I mean
[quote] -Heroic Movement could have looked like Assassin's Creed or the new LoTR game, but because the dev team are all nursing newborns or something, they chose for it to look like the Marvel Buddies. Heroic Movement, and MOBA combat could have been achieved fine with realistic models. [/quote]
Once again...no it could not have looked like single player games without severely compromising game play. Every character on screen has to be rendered be every one in view. Everything you make "optimal" or "high quality" in animations and/or graphics affects this.
This is not to say I like the current look, but you must know that going as far as to say it could look as good as *insert SP game here* just wont work on most MMOs. If you expect to get a wide scope of players.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
I never said it had to Be those games, just more like that than what they made. I know the difference between a single player game's resources and what you have in an MMORPG.
You are mucking up my point so I will re-state.
They could have used movements that are just above human agility and speed capabilities and it would have looked fantastic.
They've announced all the playable races, assuming the Halfling mentioned on the livestream yesterday is to the last of the first 8 races, could just be an NPC race though. Highly doubting they are showing off a non-playable race as playable during SOE Live. Could be wrong, but I'd think they would of went "Oh btw, here's a Barbarian." Not sure what games you've played, but depending on how character creation works, it could be very easy to go from what you call a Barbarian to a "hominid" human by just sliding the height scale up or now and making a few features larger/smaller. Games like Aion took this to the extreme, but I wouldn't doubt if EQN has a decent variety of slider options.
Kind of like the Kerran that many laugh at. Could be all the "pelts" look as silly, but we've only see one in action. Other might look much better and whatever the lion version ends up looking like since they said they were still working on it (I wonder why). Great thing about these games, we don't have to depend on 5 faces and hairstyles like older games.
You could be right, but nothing about him matches the humans that have been seen thus far. He is too tall, his face is too long, he doesn't stand like he just got shot in the ass, and his legs aren't bowed.
I have no proof that he is a barbarian so I'll have to concede this point to you.
Honestly this is all rather pointless back and forth. Art style is 100% subjective and we either like something or we don't. In this case, your preference wasn't applied unfortunately. SOE isn't changing it and these circular conversations are rather tiresome. Still baffles me why you or others that appear to dislike all or a good amount of what SOE is doing are hanging around talking crap about it. I get you are upset and don't like where they've gone, but I hope you are at least getting some relief from venting. Personally can't wait until the game comes out and I can play it instead of having that time to play SOE fanboi which I feel stupid for doing
Could you link me to a vid/screen shot of this "shot in the ass, bowed legs" thing?
Or just give a time stamp from this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3tWzhdxVMw
While the characters are still a bit too floaty, I don't really see a lot wrong with their animations. Pretty fluid, even with the super speed of everything.
If you are specifically talking about the class video from SOE Live 14, I think everything looks weird because they use the stupid panning spectator view instead of actual player POV.
Yeah the back and forth does nothing, and you are 100% right there. The point I am tying to make by using those mature shows as an example is that there are colors on the palette of storytelling that I feel they completely shut down by making the world feel like they did by choosing this appearance. EQ was not GoT, but it wasn't The Wiggles either. In my opinion they have made a terrible error in hamstringing their lore and events by making them look like something that can't be taken seriously.
There is some venting going on, and some great disappointment that EQNext will be the first EQ game that my group will not play. So that's part of it.
I don't feel like it is right that people not get the other side of the perspective in stories about EQNext here, so I chime in. I believe a great many people are happy with EQNext, but a great many aren't either.
I'm trying to be honest and accurate when I talk about EQNext, but some of this stuff is just plain subjective. Any observer can see that there are many sides to this story.
I'm not mucking up your point...you are. You pointed out two of the best looking and best animated SP games to date to say what they could have done in an MMO. Yet...it can't be done to that scale in any MMO without huge drops in FPS and processing. I understand what you mean, but you reached too far.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Ok well, good deal.
You completely jumped off the deep end. The graphics couldnt really be done in an MMO ( though Black Desert looks close ) but the animations could easily. However for balance reasons I doubt all the wall climbing would be a success in an MMORPG environment.
As per the posted screenshot earlier. It is a Barbarian. At SOE FanFaire that had Humans , Dark Elves and Barbarians fighting.
You see now you prove you don't really have an argument just an outlandish reactionary stance.
as I have shown, the stylized rendition of a rabbit is a stylized rendition that will last for years.
Your argument, such as it is, is "because technology is better and can render a more realistic art design, there must be realistic art design.
And yeah, I do agree that a company "could" update their designs as technology gets better. But that is a large cost to their game.
It still doesn't set aside that stylistic art designs are just that "stylized". They are not better or worse except when compared to preference.
And to be clear, my preference is realistic art design. Without question. But I don't then look at stylized art design and look at it as being "inferior" just something that doesn't align with my preferences.
Stylized art design ages better. I've stated those reasons above. These EQ designs do have a disneyfied look but they will still have that disneyfied look 10 years from now. A game with "realistic" art design will look old and haggard 10 years from now.
I mean "heck" even Diablo III went the stylized route. Would I have preferred a darker, more realistic rendering of that game world? Sure. But Their designers wanted something different.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
This sounds to me like you are saying that the faction and races you won't be playing can look like shit but you want the EVIL stuff to look evil. Well guess what, they look cartoony just like the good side. Stylized means everyone looks like a clay model.
I have delivered both, but you are choosing to focus on my emotional reaction to their decision.
And again, who cares if 10 years down the road the models don't compete, you either fix it or you let it stand, but it's ridiculous to be thinking that they have such a stellar hit on their hands that ten years down the road they will be under the microscope. If this situation did arise you could fix it by updating graphics.
This is excuse is the weakest of them all. Nobody will give a shit either way at the ten year mark, and unless the game performs like WoW it won't matter. This is WoW clone thinking at it's best.
I applaud you for your sense of taste in reference to Diablo and such, and it shows me that you have some sense of what creatively EQNext has lost in this decision. Entertainment products are not better for the creators pinching pennies on the very face of the product.
There is a lot to like about the direction EQN takes.
But what keeps me on the fence are the cartoon graphics and the overdone combat effects. I don't want a sound and light show when a character simply swings a weapon. Thor may cause earthquakes when he slams Mjolnir down, but does everyone have to?
Less is sometimes more. I have the impression they are targeting the sugary cereal 13 year old audience. This is fine for the little ones...I remember being 13 years old too - you run in circles and want action, action action, now, now, now.
But what about the more mature players? Button mashing Donkey Kong is not what we hoped EQN would be.
Yeah...the deep end...
Although you agreed with the graphics and really couldn't give a realistic reason as to how the animations would work. In fact you went against animations a bit.
But yeah...deep end. Thanks for your non intended support.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
I just want to make sure I am understanding what you are saying.
You are saying that the direct comparison to SPG graphics and animations is inappropriate because the two things are dissimilar enough technology-wise that the analogy is poor. Right?
There is no analogy here....SP graphics and/or animations are much better for a reason the you...and others...I guess just refuse to see. You CAN have them in MMOs, but...well it's been said before. Why keep on about things that players can't grasp.
MMOs as a whole will not have the most realistic character visuals...deal with it or learn why.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
I was trying to get clarification but you appear to be fixated on what is really a fine distinction. I tried to go your way on this but you are socially inept, so I will just tell you that you are bitching about people making a peripheral comparison within software. Nobody said what you thought they said from the beginning.
Quit bitching because you think you have the Graphics in a Video Game Hall monitor badge. You're off topic and just looking to be arrogant.