Originally posted by Krimzin EQ had some solid dungeons..LGuk was a blast. WoW most dungeons sucked, same old face roll crap.Wildtar has by far the hardest dungeons. Sad part is they aren't hard, just that other games are so easy in comparison.
I would totally try Wildstar but heard bad things about the combat. Oh and if they have big eared elves, that would be a turn off. Other than that it sounds like the kind of game I'd be interested in.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
WildStar notwithstanding as i didn't play it but know its dungeons are rather difficult as well, WoW: Burning Crusade had the hardest dungeons. I'm referring to the heroic modes as you had to use CC if you didn't want to get curb stomped. This includes multiple CC when if you could else someone was likely to die. I kinda miss having to use sap as a rogue back then, now i only use it to fuck with alliance or try to force trinket/open up in arena.
The 3 Dungeons in ICC that were added were pretty difficult too(not on the same level as WoW:BC heroic dungeons though). Until they were nerfed. Such a shame.
WildStar notwithstanding as i didn't play it but know its dungeons are rather difficult as well, WoW: Burning Crusade had the hardest dungeons. I'm referring to the heroic modes as you had to use CC if you didn't want to get curb stomped. This includes multiple CC when if you could else someone was likely to die. I kinda miss having to use sap as a rogue back then, now i only use it to fuck with alliance or try to force trinket/open up in arena.
The 3 Dungeons in ICC that were added were pretty difficult too(not on the same level as WoW:BC heroic dungeons though). Until they were nerfed. Such a shame.
Agreed. Healing in Halls of Reflection heroic when it first came out was one of the toughest things i've done. Especially when there was an under-geared tank in the group. I remember queuing up for randoms and seeing that ominous loading screen and thinking "oh shit" lol. People would drop group as soon as the dungeon popped all the time.
Originally posted by ArclanFor anyone to suggest WoW was considerably harder than EQ is just silly. Sounds like you have little EQ experience or joined the game late in its maturity.
waiting in line and then 50 people pounds on a dungeon boss for 5 seconds so that you can get your chance of loot ... is not hard.
Which raid, what day (date), and what lvl/class were you?
3) EQ2 as a whole, at least as of the last time i played
2) the limit breaks in ff11 (if they count... i can see arguments each way)
1) AQ40-person in oldschool WoW
special mention goes to my favourite dungeon which almost made the hard list: SSC in WoW: burning crusade.
the easiest:
5) uldaman from WoW
4) karazhan in WoW
3) the GW1 story sequences
2) rift's dungeons (though, i liked them)
1)SWTOR's flash points
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Are we talking mob and boss mechanics or are we talking about time requirements and layout complexity?
All dungeons have gotten more difficult mechanics wise while also becoming unbelievably less difficult where time and layout complexity come into play.
Everquest still tops the list for me because there were so many variables of what could go wrong. You could get trained, a named could spawn while you had just pulled and already had 2 mobs CCed, if you died you had to run back to your body naked, etc... Also the lost dungeons of norrath time challenges were great IMO. Chain pulling and clean mechanics and CC or you'd never make it in time. Was a lot of fun.
Ultima Online is near the top for me for similar reasons. There were things that were just outside of your control sometimes. You could be fighting in an area that was usually liches, and a lich lord would spawn and flame strike your ass, or a band of PKs would run through killing everyone in sight. Also if you died there was a very good chance you'd lose your items. Dungeons were very risky, but very fun and challenging.
Wildstar the dungeons were a lot of fun for me, but were definitely challenging. There are many, MANY fights that would punish you harshly for slipping up for even a moment. The mechanics were also pretty varied from fight to fight. I'd say the dungeons would rank up well with some of the more challenging raids in WoW.
WoW squeaks in because the dungeons were very challenging when they initially released them in Vanilla, BC,and the heroics in Cata. WotLK wasn't really too challenging overall, but there were some fights and dungeons that were exceptions to the rule.
Hardest to least hardest: 1. FFXIV - without watching videos and coil turns after 5th are one of the hardest things. 2. Vanilla WoW - one of the last times I experienced true progression. 3. FFXI - I think group setup and knowledge really made this super difficult. 4. Tera - Had a hell of a time hitting 157-159 ilvl back in the day as a dps. 5. WoW Current - I can assume that the hardest raids are difficult as I never invested the time into raiding hardcore after WOTLK.
For anyone to suggest WoW was considerably harder than EQ is just silly. Sounds like you have little EQ experience or joined the game late in its maturity.
Level 80 Magician + 80 Shaman (or was it 85?) maxed AA dual box here played through beta to LDoN. Raided more than you most likely. Played other MMOs more than you most likely.
Considering you gave no information to why Everquest was difficult and want to say people are silly for thinking it wasn't, I'll throw the counter argument up with some opinions to back up my claim on why it was the dungeons were easiest around:
1. You could solo the dungeons at level with the right class. That right there is something that you can rarely do in any MMOs. That alone makes the dungeon difficulty a joke in comparison to other MMOs. Also before you claim I'm talking about "late" Everquest or whatever, I was soloing parts of the highest level dungeons such as Guk and later Sebellis and Karnor's Castle well before the next expansion came out.
2. Unless you were a healer (literally played with one or two hotkeys) or an enchanter and to a lesser extent a tank your group wasn't really reliant on you, so even if someone died you'd still probably be okay to finish the encounters assuming the healer or enchanter wasn't low on mana.
3. The dungeons literally had you camping in one spot for hours on end. There was no challenge at all beyond the initial clear to split the spawn timer, which often with lists for camps and all that you didn't even have to perform.
4. MOBs in dungeons had no mechanics beyond standard tank and spank. None whatsoever.
5. Aside from maybe a bard, most classes could be played entirely with just a few spells (3-4 usually) being required for group play and some could be played well with a single spell, minus occasional recasting of buffs. (Cleric, Wizard, Magician, Warrior, Rogue, SK, Paladin, etc.)
6. The game was slow allowing for lots of time to react and correct mistakes, not that much reaction was needed as again, there weren't really mechanics that called for it.
7. You can chain stun almost everything into oblivion with Clerics/Enchanters/Paladins. That's why AoE groups worked so well, but it even worked on the occasional raid boss, like Arch Lich in Ssra that allowed you severely underman it (our guild did it with 4 people at one point while the Luclin expansion was still out - keep in mind this was a raid boss designed for at least 30 people).
8. Oh, and bards can solo entire sections of dungeons in a single pull like Halls of Honor (ever see AA maxed in less than a week? I have). What a joke.
9. AI was super exploitable too. The pathfinding was atrocious and you can sit hop aggro between MOBs.
Only hard part about Everquest was the time investment and penalties. None of these really have to do with dungeon difficulty.
Now, can you tell me why you actually think Everquest's dungeons were difficult?
When it comes to mechanics I found FFXIV the hardest, never played wildstar so maybe that may top it. I was used on other mmos for one player especially a DPS not having as much responsibility but in here if one player messes up it's mostly over for everyone and there is so much going on in a short amount of time someone is bound to make a mistake.
Garuda ex as a tank was one of the most stressful fights I've been to and titan ex was a pain in the a** too.
#1 - Pre-Abyssea FFXI. Had a raid boss that wasn't even killed by anyone, ever, for upwards of 3 years, except by hacks/exploits. It was so hard that the game developers had to make a video on how to beat it, and people STILL couldn't figure out how they did it. World bosses who took coordinated guilds so long to kill that they had to play in shifts. Also had some of the most difficult content ever in an MMO with Dynamis-Xarcabard. The number of people who beat Dynamis Lord in FFXI is basically a fraction of a tiny fraction of an even smaller fraction. There was maybe 1 or 2 people per server with best in slot gear for their class. Promyvions, and story missions in Chains of Promathia were so difficult that less than 1% of the player base ever finished the storyline.
#2 - Vanilla/BC era WoW - still the best 5 man content ever in a game, but back in the day, you had to have your head on straight or you'd wipe again and again. It used to be an accomplishment to finish a dungeon. And Sunwell plateau had M'uru, the guild killer.
#1. Wildstar, hands down. You actually had to try the instances multiple times before you learned and got though them. This was all new for me and I'm still enjoying it. The fights do have core mechanics and not everything is random, but everyone has to be on their toes all the time and thats what makes it hard. Amount of actual gaming skill that is needed to play this game to full effect is just so much higher compared to other MMOs. This is also a reason for many to stop playing the game.
#2. Lotro and WoW were the same for me. Learn the dance once and and you could farm it without a problem. Raids had some quite fun dances, but at the end just not hard at all. Dungeons in these two games were always too easy and unrewarding.
#3. TERA. While this game had an amazing combat system the dungeons and raids were a piece of cake. You could run through everything with a pug if everyone knew anything about the dungeon/raid and matched the gear level needed for it. This game had enormous gaps in players skill levels, but it didn't matter. You didn't have to be good to get pulled through the content.
I wish some people were around during the early days of Rift. some of dungeons were moderately easy, others were stupidly hard. Like, 20 or 30 people on the entire server were capable of completing them hard.
Can't speak to now as i havent played it since like 2013.
Nevertheless, GW2? gimme a break. the dungeons in that game were a joke. And they were only "hard" because they were cheap. You had to basically just constantly die and run back over and over and slowly whittle the boss down. It was effing stupid.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
I wish some people were around during the early days of Rift. some of dungeons were moderately easy, others were stupidly hard. Like, 20 or 30 people on the entire server were capable of completing them hard.
The T2 dungeons in Rift were absolutely brutal. Between dungeons in Rift being in general buggy as hell from the get-go, mechanics being at times kind of wonky and requiring things like backup/secondary heals, and T2s requiring that even the DPS carry their weight or you weren't making it to the end, in my guild we had maybe fifteen people that you could take for a reliable full run. Even once we were decently geared, at best we could carry one DPS who wasn't really up to it.
And then they hit T2s with a bloody damn nerf planet.
Not one of those little nerf planets, either, we're talking Nerf Jupiter here.
It made the jump from BC-era CC-and-careful-pulls to Wrath's who-cares-grab-everthing look mild by comparison.
Originally posted by AIMonster Level 80 Magician + 80 Shaman (or was it 85?) maxed AA dual box here played through beta to LDoN.
This thread is not "what is the most difficult dungeon to two-box." I can't really speak to that, but it's fairly obvious a two-boxer would find action combat games more difficult.
Mage is probably the best solo class in EQ. Adding a shaman makes for an easy two-box. But I can't see you lasting more than a few seconds pulling Kedge seahorses in 1999, or frankly even getting there. But, I would guess you leveled up on easy content and moved to challenging areas after you outleveled them.
If EQ dungeons were so easy for you two two-box, please do tell us what game had dungeons you found difficult; and why.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by Arclan For anyone to suggest WoW was considerably harder than EQ is just silly. Sounds like you have little EQ experience or joined the game late in its maturity.
Exactly my thoughts, too. EQ bosses never "telegraphed" where their attacks were going to hit. There were HOLES in the floors to fall through! The "fake tree" in Blackburrow and the "hole in the floor" in Befallen both caught me my first trip into those areas. Both required difficult corpse runs.
EQ dungeons were big enough that many groups (3-5) could find camping spots. They were also open, not this instanced crap that inundates us now. You had to fight your way into a camp spot and when done, fight your way back out. The dungeons today are linear, start to finish horror houses where the baddies jump out you at specified points.
Dungeons have lost their appeal for me in newer MMOs. They have changed from "Dungeon Delving" to "Dungeon Running", literally. No longer are they about figuring them out as a team and instead require watching others play through, getting all the right "dance moves" down, before ever setting one foot inside.
WoW dungeons would be tougher if they did not require the use of add-on programs. But since so many players used them, then had the gall to complain about how "easy" dungeons were, Blizzard had to program for their use. I don't pay a monthly sub in order to cheat my way through a game.
Gone are the days of "adventure" in MMORPGs...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Sector 42 from Anarchy Online is probably the biggest raid I ever been. So big that players from Multiple faction team up and most of the time the raid force would just get wiped.
"you are like the world revenge on sarcasm, you know that?"
Comments
EQ had some solid dungeons..LGuk was a blast.
WoW most dungeons sucked, same old face roll crap.
Wildtar has by far the hardest dungeons. Sad part is they aren't hard, just that other games are so easy in comparison.
Lets see your Battle Stations /r/battlestations
Battle Station
I would totally try Wildstar but heard bad things about the combat. Oh and if they have big eared elves, that would be a turn off. Other than that it sounds like the kind of game I'd be interested in.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
WildStar notwithstanding as i didn't play it but know its dungeons are rather difficult as well, WoW: Burning Crusade had the hardest dungeons. I'm referring to the heroic modes as you had to use CC if you didn't want to get curb stomped. This includes multiple CC when if you could else someone was likely to die. I kinda miss having to use sap as a rogue back then, now i only use it to fuck with alliance or try to force trinket/open up in arena.
The 3 Dungeons in ICC that were added were pretty difficult too(not on the same level as WoW:BC heroic dungeons though). Until they were nerfed. Such a shame.
I would say this first, any dungeon becomes easy once you know it, so games that require repetition become progressively simpler.
The easiest I can think of is SWTOR, I mean you literally race your team mates through it soloing mobs.
The hardest is probably P101; some of the dungeons there really require some teamwork and knowledge of strengths/ weaknesses.
Agreed. Healing in Halls of Reflection heroic when it first came out was one of the toughest things i've done. Especially when there was an under-geared tank in the group. I remember queuing up for randoms and seeing that ominous loading screen and thinking "oh shit" lol. People would drop group as soon as the dungeon popped all the time.
For me I haven't been through many dungeons in MMO's but here is my list.
1.) World Of Warcraft Cataclysm heroics (pre nerf)
2.) Guild Wars 2
3.) SWTOR (patch 1.0 heroics)
4.) Final Fantasy XIV (newer heroics, not the originals)
5.) Rift
WildStar takes the cake for me .
We are talking about dungeon difficulties here.
You never camped in Lguk?
5) the Moria dungeons in LOTRO
4) vex thal and the original planes in eq1
3) EQ2 as a whole, at least as of the last time i played
2) the limit breaks in ff11 (if they count... i can see arguments each way)
1) AQ40-person in oldschool WoW
special mention goes to my favourite dungeon which almost made the hard list: SSC in WoW: burning crusade.
the easiest:
5) uldaman from WoW
4) karazhan in WoW
3) the GW1 story sequences
2) rift's dungeons (though, i liked them)
1)SWTOR's flash points
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
Everquest
Vanguard
WoW
EQ2
LoTRO
DAoC
Define difficulty.
Are we talking mob and boss mechanics or are we talking about time requirements and layout complexity?
All dungeons have gotten more difficult mechanics wise while also becoming unbelievably less difficult where time and layout complexity come into play.
My top 5 ranking would be:
1) Everuest (through Planes of Power)
2) Ultima Online (pre Trammel)
3)Wildstar
4) Guild Wars 2
5) WoW (before the inevitable wave of nerfs)
Everquest still tops the list for me because there were so many variables of what could go wrong. You could get trained, a named could spawn while you had just pulled and already had 2 mobs CCed, if you died you had to run back to your body naked, etc... Also the lost dungeons of norrath time challenges were great IMO. Chain pulling and clean mechanics and CC or you'd never make it in time. Was a lot of fun.
Ultima Online is near the top for me for similar reasons. There were things that were just outside of your control sometimes. You could be fighting in an area that was usually liches, and a lich lord would spawn and flame strike your ass, or a band of PKs would run through killing everyone in sight. Also if you died there was a very good chance you'd lose your items. Dungeons were very risky, but very fun and challenging.
Wildstar the dungeons were a lot of fun for me, but were definitely challenging. There are many, MANY fights that would punish you harshly for slipping up for even a moment. The mechanics were also pretty varied from fight to fight. I'd say the dungeons would rank up well with some of the more challenging raids in WoW.
WoW squeaks in because the dungeons were very challenging when they initially released them in Vanilla, BC,and the heroics in Cata. WotLK wasn't really too challenging overall, but there were some fights and dungeons that were exceptions to the rule.
Hardest to least hardest:
1. FFXIV - without watching videos and coil turns after 5th are one of the hardest things.
2. Vanilla WoW - one of the last times I experienced true progression.
3. FFXI - I think group setup and knowledge really made this super difficult.
4. Tera - Had a hell of a time hitting 157-159 ilvl back in the day as a dps.
5. WoW Current - I can assume that the hardest raids are difficult as I never invested the time into raiding hardcore after WOTLK.
Level 80 Magician + 80 Shaman (or was it 85?) maxed AA dual box here played through beta to LDoN. Raided more than you most likely. Played other MMOs more than you most likely.
Considering you gave no information to why Everquest was difficult and want to say people are silly for thinking it wasn't, I'll throw the counter argument up with some opinions to back up my claim on why it was the dungeons were easiest around:
1. You could solo the dungeons at level with the right class. That right there is something that you can rarely do in any MMOs. That alone makes the dungeon difficulty a joke in comparison to other MMOs. Also before you claim I'm talking about "late" Everquest or whatever, I was soloing parts of the highest level dungeons such as Guk and later Sebellis and Karnor's Castle well before the next expansion came out.
2. Unless you were a healer (literally played with one or two hotkeys) or an enchanter and to a lesser extent a tank your group wasn't really reliant on you, so even if someone died you'd still probably be okay to finish the encounters assuming the healer or enchanter wasn't low on mana.
3. The dungeons literally had you camping in one spot for hours on end. There was no challenge at all beyond the initial clear to split the spawn timer, which often with lists for camps and all that you didn't even have to perform.
4. MOBs in dungeons had no mechanics beyond standard tank and spank. None whatsoever.
5. Aside from maybe a bard, most classes could be played entirely with just a few spells (3-4 usually) being required for group play and some could be played well with a single spell, minus occasional recasting of buffs. (Cleric, Wizard, Magician, Warrior, Rogue, SK, Paladin, etc.)
6. The game was slow allowing for lots of time to react and correct mistakes, not that much reaction was needed as again, there weren't really mechanics that called for it.
7. You can chain stun almost everything into oblivion with Clerics/Enchanters/Paladins. That's why AoE groups worked so well, but it even worked on the occasional raid boss, like Arch Lich in Ssra that allowed you severely underman it (our guild did it with 4 people at one point while the Luclin expansion was still out - keep in mind this was a raid boss designed for at least 30 people).
8. Oh, and bards can solo entire sections of dungeons in a single pull like Halls of Honor (ever see AA maxed in less than a week? I have). What a joke.
9. AI was super exploitable too. The pathfinding was atrocious and you can sit hop aggro between MOBs.
Only hard part about Everquest was the time investment and penalties. None of these really have to do with dungeon difficulty.
Now, can you tell me why you actually think Everquest's dungeons were difficult?
When it comes to mechanics I found FFXIV the hardest, never played wildstar so maybe that may top it. I was used on other mmos for one player especially a DPS not having as much responsibility but in here if one player messes up it's mostly over for everyone and there is so much going on in a short amount of time someone is bound to make a mistake.
Garuda ex as a tank was one of the most stressful fights I've been to and titan ex was a pain in the a** too.
#1 - Pre-Abyssea FFXI. Had a raid boss that wasn't even killed by anyone, ever, for upwards of 3 years, except by hacks/exploits. It was so hard that the game developers had to make a video on how to beat it, and people STILL couldn't figure out how they did it. World bosses who took coordinated guilds so long to kill that they had to play in shifts. Also had some of the most difficult content ever in an MMO with Dynamis-Xarcabard. The number of people who beat Dynamis Lord in FFXI is basically a fraction of a tiny fraction of an even smaller fraction. There was maybe 1 or 2 people per server with best in slot gear for their class. Promyvions, and story missions in Chains of Promathia were so difficult that less than 1% of the player base ever finished the storyline.
#2 - Vanilla/BC era WoW - still the best 5 man content ever in a game, but back in the day, you had to have your head on straight or you'd wipe again and again. It used to be an accomplishment to finish a dungeon. And Sunwell plateau had M'uru, the guild killer.
Rest are honorable mention but...
#3 - Vanguard
#4 - FF14
#5 - Old Atlantica Online
#6 - Dungeon Fighter Online
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I think it's necessary to break down "dungeons" into different groups according to their different purposes.
Leveling dungeons:
1. FFXIV (They are not hesitant to add multiple mechanics to a lowbie dungeon)
2. ESO (Mainly due to lowbie's lack of skills to deal with mob crowds. Bosses are not hard)
3. WoW
4. SWTOR (Lowest level dungeons are almost role-free so you can get into them before you choose you specialization)
Normal max level dungeons:
1. ESO (Light death/wipe penalties but in exchange they expect you to die a lot more. Many unfamiliar mechanics unique to the hybrid-action system)
2. SWTOR (Seems to be quite a gear wall between different dungeon tiers at max level)
3. WoW
4. FFXIV (Dungeons are designed to be one-shotted and spammed)
I haven't played all the challenge mode dungeons in each game but I feel they are of similar difficulty.
Some of the high level HH90+ and a few FBs in old school Perfect World were the hardest runs I ever done.
Everything is so easy nowadays.
#1. Wildstar, hands down. You actually had to try the instances multiple times before you learned and got though them. This was all new for me and I'm still enjoying it. The fights do have core mechanics and not everything is random, but everyone has to be on their toes all the time and thats what makes it hard. Amount of actual gaming skill that is needed to play this game to full effect is just so much higher compared to other MMOs. This is also a reason for many to stop playing the game.
#2. Lotro and WoW were the same for me. Learn the dance once and and you could farm it without a problem. Raids had some quite fun dances, but at the end just not hard at all. Dungeons in these two games were always too easy and unrewarding.
#3. TERA. While this game had an amazing combat system the dungeons and raids were a piece of cake. You could run through everything with a pug if everyone knew anything about the dungeon/raid and matched the gear level needed for it. This game had enormous gaps in players skill levels, but it didn't matter. You didn't have to be good to get pulled through the content.
I wish some people were around during the early days of Rift. some of dungeons were moderately easy, others were stupidly hard. Like, 20 or 30 people on the entire server were capable of completing them hard.
Can't speak to now as i havent played it since like 2013.
Nevertheless, GW2? gimme a break. the dungeons in that game were a joke. And they were only "hard" because they were cheap. You had to basically just constantly die and run back over and over and slowly whittle the boss down. It was effing stupid.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
The T2 dungeons in Rift were absolutely brutal. Between dungeons in Rift being in general buggy as hell from the get-go, mechanics being at times kind of wonky and requiring things like backup/secondary heals, and T2s requiring that even the DPS carry their weight or you weren't making it to the end, in my guild we had maybe fifteen people that you could take for a reliable full run. Even once we were decently geared, at best we could carry one DPS who wasn't really up to it.
And then they hit T2s with a bloody damn nerf planet.
Not one of those little nerf planets, either, we're talking Nerf Jupiter here.
It made the jump from BC-era CC-and-careful-pulls to Wrath's who-cares-grab-everthing look mild by comparison.
/sigh
This thread is not "what is the most difficult dungeon to two-box." I can't really speak to that, but it's fairly obvious a two-boxer would find action combat games more difficult.
Mage is probably the best solo class in EQ. Adding a shaman makes for an easy two-box. But I can't see you lasting more than a few seconds pulling Kedge seahorses in 1999, or frankly even getting there. But, I would guess you leveled up on easy content and moved to challenging areas after you outleveled them.
If EQ dungeons were so easy for you two two-box, please do tell us what game had dungeons you found difficult; and why.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
EQ dungeons were big enough that many groups (3-5) could find camping spots. They were also open, not this instanced crap that inundates us now. You had to fight your way into a camp spot and when done, fight your way back out. The dungeons today are linear, start to finish horror houses where the baddies jump out you at specified points.
Dungeons have lost their appeal for me in newer MMOs. They have changed from "Dungeon Delving" to "Dungeon Running", literally. No longer are they about figuring them out as a team and instead require watching others play through, getting all the right "dance moves" down, before ever setting one foot inside.
WoW dungeons would be tougher if they did not require the use of add-on programs. But since so many players used them, then had the gall to complain about how "easy" dungeons were, Blizzard had to program for their use. I don't pay a monthly sub in order to cheat my way through a game.
Gone are the days of "adventure" in MMORPGs...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
"you are like the world revenge on sarcasm, you know that?"
One of those great lines from The Secret World