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I desire a game with no endgame and no advantage to making alts. Is it possible?
iridescence
Member UncommonPosts: 1,552
I think you should never stop gaining power and skills in MMOs. I'm not interested in gear progression at all.It's stupid IMO. A sword is just a sword, maybe you have a well made sword but one will cut you very like another. I would like to see a game without any "endgame" at all one in which your character went on a very gradual journey from hapless peasant to demigod.
I think MMOs should make it so characters should never stop gaining power. This should be done with gradual slope progression. A guy playing for 10 years should be a super-badass but should still be vulnerable to a group of players working against him.
The other issue I have is people playing more than one character in games. It's fine if they're just doing it for fun but I hate when playing a bunch of alts gives you a big advantage. EVE Online does a pretty good job with the gradual slope progression but totally falls down in this area.
My hope is that with procedural content we will see enough things to do to make infinite power progression attainable but I'm not sure how to discourage the playing of alts or if this is even necessary (although I tend to think it is).
Thoughts?
Comments
you could use a system of labor points that only recharge when online in order to stop/ hinder bot-army and then... oooops
1) Working towards an end-game, a goal is what i personally believe set the players keep playing.
The carrot on the stick thing.
GW2 try without it, and look where it is.
Yes, there's still players that enjoy this kind of gameplay, but how many players can it retain?
I believe end-game is a necessary evil.
Dev just need to make it more accessible to a larger crowd, and that is what WoW is trying to do.
2) A few more players is able to take down a player that have play for the past 10 years....
Than wouldn't the 10 years of effort goes down the drain?
If you spend 10 years in a game you by right should garner a 40 man raid on you.
3) Alt, never play eve, but i like playing alt to try out different class, race and factions for their stories...
RIP Orc Choppa
By continuing to gain power instead of gear, you basically mean a game with no level cap (or alternatively, the functional equivalent of no level cap), right?
The main problem with that is the game becomes nigh impossible to balance. Which isn't a big deal if it's PvE but is a bigger deal if it has competitive aspects (be it PvP or in some cases, competitive PvE)
Which is doable, I suppose. I wouldn't expect to see it done very often though because big money these days comes from putting competitive aspects in your game so that players make their own content for you by fighting each other (and/or, in an F2P game, throwing money at each other)
I agree with you... Eternall character advancement
the only thing that comes close currently is ESO
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
The problem as I see it is that all the continuing development effort is spent on the endgame and none on the rest of the game (except maybe to nerf it - look at WoW). Tail wagging the dog.
I remember a guild conversation from very early WoW -
Guildmate: Yay! I've reached 60! <pause> Now what?
Other guildmate: Start a new character?
Perpetually shifting a game's endpoint further and further is one thing, but eliminating it altogether is another thing entirely. It's like asking someone if they'd like to read a book that never ends. That's not the same as saying there will be a sequel. You can argue that it's just a psychological barrier, but it certainly isn't a weak one. As for anyone interested in arguing that the types of gamers I describe should just stick to single-player games, I invite you to do so without blatantly ignoring the very reasons why these folks are attracted to MMOs in the first place.
Regarding your second point, I'm totally with you. I hate having to level alts. But there are a lot, and I mean a lot, of people who love alts and everything they entail. Alts are a bit of a cop-out, in my opinion, but they work when it comes to extending the life of a game. And for that reason alone, I don't see alt-ing going away anytime soon.
You don't need to balance PvP in MMORPGs, that's the whole point. As the above poster said, your 10 years of gaming on the same toon goes down the drain if you are an equal level with players who have just created their characters.
There are lots of PvP games that are designed so, that players are all equal, and only skill and reflexes matter. MMOs should do the exact opposite. Those who have played longer and done stuff in game, should have an upper hand. No catch-up mechanics, period!
1) What makes an end-game different from 'leveling game'? The pace your toon grows in power. Modern mmo games make you level up in fast-forward mode. Anything you do before end game is irrelevant, because only there the progression slows down and content becomes relevant again. Why not design the pace so that the whole game is a one big end-game?
2) Someone played for 10 years should be 'a raid boss' for someone who has just started playing. That's how these games should work.
3) Rolling an alt should be an opportunity to start again from scratch. I've read many people enjoy rerolling a character on a fresh server with no gold, gear, achievements, etc, and i agree with them. It was nice to have something to do when you raided / PvPed on your main and logged on your alts every now and then to have some fun with low level content. But if the leveling takes as long as it should, alts would never have any advantage on your main, which is perfectly fine.
Wrong. Just the most recent game to do it.
Not sure about Ultima Online, but pretty sure Everquest has ALMOST endless char development next to gear development. There is a cap, but most users will take months and years to reach it without massive outsite help.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
I think you should check out Skyforge.
It's not EXACTLY what you are asking for, but it has elements.
There are is no traditional leveling, though you do gain power. You start off as an immortal and eventually you become a god with followers and such. God mode is a big part of the endgame, and gives you an entirely new progression path (from videos, it looks like your the equivalent of the standard mmo boss you'd see in dungeons and raids).
You can swap classes at any time, gear is fairly minimal (I think you have 2 unique items (weapons) per class, then 3 shared pieces of equipment between all of your classes).
Anyway, I honestly could go on and list a lot of features but, check out these two videos:
Should give you an idea of what the game is currently like too.