Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Body Part Targetting
Renian
Member Posts: 152
Like all of the Simutronics MUDs, will Hero's Journey also feature a system that allows us to target specific body parts of a critter (or person) and damage them? I thought that feature in GS4 and Dragonrealms was really cool and added a lot to the combat strategy (hack off a leg to force them on the ground, then turn their brain into a fine red mist), and it was a nice change to the only method of killing something being "lower their HP to 0". Causing them to realistically die, like having their heart rammed out their back, thus killing them in one fell swoop would be a nice change to the MMO's that simply didn't think of this.
If the devs think this is too gruesome to put into HJ, then at least allow us to break body parts. For example, you could hack away at something's weapon arm and all of a sudden you hear a loud *SNAP* and it dangles limply at their side, unusable. Or you smash at their back and their spine snaps, sending them to the ground face first and stunned. Or you smash their neck and crush their jugular, cutting off the flow of blood to their brain and killing them.
Of course, enemies could do this to you too, hence allowing you to have a *very* good reason to wear heavier armors.
Comments
I'm interested in hearing your own personal definition of the word gruesome, because these all fall well within mine.
Also, you'll come to find that there is little we consider too gruesome. We were all evil GMs once.
As in, you shove your sword through the stomach and pull it out to find their guts on your sword and coming out of their stomach, much like in GS4.
Considering the fact that you don't care about gruesomeness, I find that as good news, as I didn't want you guys to hold back.
Hopefully this also means that "Yes, there will be body part targetting."
Our focus with combat currently is in the areas of dynamics, cooperative efforts and, as always, fun.
Of course, as has been stated elsewhere, HJ will, like our other games, be a continually updated and improved as the Producer and GameMaster staff sees fit.
DragonRealms did not start off with that particular feature (targeting specific body parts), and though I didn't play it much, I'm guessing GemStone evolved that design later in its life, as well.
Wow those are some uh... 'interesting' descriptions.
Age of Conan is using a similar combat similar, where you can target body parts/choose how you swing your sword, thus resulting in decapitations and such.
Im getting a little tired of auto-attack combat, and while I realise HJ needs to appeal to fans of Simu's previous games I, personally, wouldnt mind seeing a more interactive and faster combat system. The cooperative attacks are really cool, like the one stated in the E3 demo.
Yeah, but if you noticed in the video, lots of the rest of the combat seemed to be swing the sword in auto stuff.
Didnt see called shots in it, but doesnt mean they arent possible maybe as a "coordinated" attack.
"Hey bob, distract the dragon, then i can get in a whack at its tail."
Explorer 73% Achiever 53% Socializer 53% Killer 20%
Body targetting is really the only feature that will make me interested in this game, and even then only as long as combat is actually fun to do over and over. Games like WoW, EQ, UO, every single other MMORPG has autoattack based combat, which I tend not to be able to handle since anything you can program a bot to do (via violating the TOS) seems monotonous and boring. Combat should be on the level of "Die by the Sword" at the best, or at least twitch based combat as a primary factor in the least. One of the things I loved best about Gemstone 3 was the limb damage, I could fight the frost giant by chopping off his leg, stunning him via that injury and then bashing his head in. Being able to see and do that in an MMORPG would definetly make me want to play it as long as the combat was fun.
Of course this would also go for me, I want to see a giant pulp me if I don't act smart enough. I can accept some randomness as part of combat, but the more that relies on me failing due to my mistakes the more fun it is. By mistakes here, I do not mean failing to bring along a cleric, though I can accept a healer being necessary during large battles, but again the tree chopping effect below should not, ever be used. Mistakes should be my failing to see a blow coming and getting out of the way or blocking it (if possible), my being surprised by not paying enough attention and getting fireballed from behind, etc.
The "Chopping down a tree" type of fighting, ie. killing some god creature or player simply by wiping out it's hitpoints is neither realistic or enjoyable. The PC or NPC's abiltiies and status is essentially the same from when I just meet them to when they die in these situations, and my crit for 2000 damage really just means that I spend 10 seconds less mashing the same buttons over and over again. Any system that moves away from this is a step in the right direction. Any system that complies with the monotonous combat of EQ or WoW is doomed to failure (hopefully).
Knowing Simu, I suspect that they will put out a quality game plotwise, but copy the other models for combat. If you're going to promise a "fun" type of combat sometime after release I simply won't buy it until the combat is fun and I have experienced it and played it myself. Which means if none of my friends buy it, there is no free beta or 10 day trial...I simply won't ever end up playing anything that I don't enjoy during beta.
I know I look for a lot in an MMO, but I invest a great deal of money into these games if I enjoy them. I hope Simu is strong enough to step outside the box that other MMO's find themselves in and realize that they can steal WoW/EQ's customers by developing a system of combat and interaction that people will find 10x more fun. Even if it isn't everything I want, or everything someone else wants it is a simple thing to step away from the mainstream and realize what a huge area these games are lacking in.
I would have to agree with Bokonon. Auto-attack is getting way too old. I would not mind this game being delayed another quarter or two if Simu implemented body part targetting, because that would make all the difference.
I wouldn't say all the difference but it would be a step in the right direction. Body targetting could be included with auto attack and I suspect I'd end up just as stifled by the lack of activity. Wack'a'mole with my brawl/kick/taunt/heal is not a fun game.
As far as delay, this game is too far out at the moment for me to take serious interest in it so another quarter or two won't matter to me, the sooner the beta rolls out the better in my opinion since that truely is the only judge if an MMO is fun. Most games sound fun pre-development.
I guess I can throw my 2 cents in on this topic also. Auto-attack can definitely take the fun right out of the game before anybody knows what happened. This is one of the reasons I always pick magic users as my character. I decide what spells to cast, where to teleport, etc. I don't put a stupid axe in my chars. hand and move him as close to the target as possible.
Well the good news is that the ability to sever a limb is in the design. But it is something that has to be done very carefully because otherwise it becomes overly powerful: If you can easily wipe out a leg, then you'll beat most anything. Or turning it around, if a creature can target YOUR limbs, how should your character react if your leg is taken out (but you still have tons of hitpoints)?
I agree that adjusting your tactics is important, but I think the limb thing is over-rated. You risk making an incorrect assumption: that the only thing you could add to combat to make it less monotonous is limb targeting! I completely disagree with that part. I think there are opportunitites for lots of creative (and realistic, to use that word carefully) options that occur in combat that are not represented in MMORPG melee to date. I intend to focus on those for the most part.
As for limbs, I like to think of that as more of a critical hit effect rather than something you do robotically. Otherwise its the same thing... monotnously targeting the legs. How has that improved anything?
Combat in HJ already is more interesting than most anything I've ever played in other MMORPGs and we've just scratched the surface of our plans. I think you'll find it a lot of fun.
-- David
I'd have to say I agree. Considering this topic is much like the other one I started, I'm just looking forward to the combat system you guys are designing. Cutting off arms and legs will hardly make the game that much more interesting though. All I can see, as far as that goes, would be a limb severed by a character or npc monster, etc. whose level is much higher than the player character. I guess it'd also be cool if it happened once in awhile with higher level characters also. Other than that I could really care less if it was put into the game at all haha.
I do understand that simply making limbs fall off won't increase the fun of the game, but it was the neatest thing in GS3/4 so I used it as a reference
.
I honestly don't know what makes combat exciting. I can list examples from single player games, but any MMO has gotten boring in a month or two. Combat is interesting when it's fast, requires twitch skill where I need to pay attention to what the baddie is doing beyond watching my hitpoints go down. I realize (from a previous post about realtime shields) that this isn't totally feasible in an MMO but as close to this would make it more entertaining in my opinion. Maybe have the baddie use those walls of fire like the players do, so if the players have to move around also and disrupt thier little squads?
I personally have a vandetta against Taunt, I think it ruins games by taking away the monster's will. By having "a main tank" against the huge mobs it eliminates most of the chance and dynamics in those encounters.
As for limbs, I think it's still useful albiet maybe difficult. A hill giant 50ft tall isn't going to be killed by me attacking his big toe or ankle. Or a dragon won't die if I hurt it's feet either..so limb damage could be used to gain access to these vital body parts. Or in more easy terms for a troll vs. a humaniod have the limb attacks cause more damage but suffer a greater miss rate than body shots, but if they succeed than they cause problems for the monster/player. Anything that happens to a monster should happen to a player just for fairness
I would hope that if my character had his leg chopped off than I would lose a ton of hitpoints, maybe bleed, and fall to the ground and be hindered/unable to get back up. I don't mind losing some abilities/control with my character as long as the monster can have the same thing happen to him. It also shouldn't just be something that high level thugs do to low level, since as the above examples with dragons/hill giants or even man-sized, it adds yet another dynamic to the game.
Just have responses that I'l be entertained leads me to some hope, just hope this game gets more info and released fast enough to keep people's interest