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Anyone else think...PFO kinda sucks?

135

Comments

  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 3,030

    If you do not understand how games are developed ... DO NOT PAY FOR PRE-ALPHA OR ALPHA!

     

    The vast majority of systems in early versions of game testing are first run stock systems. They are made to "simply get something in game". They are not there to be reviewed as complete systems and WILL change often dramatically over the development cycle.

     

    If you paid money to test in order to play a game for fun ... you are a complete and ignorant fool. This is not the time for review and is why most games have an NDA. This is not to hide anything. It is because the game is not a reflection for the future complete product. The game can still stink when finished but ignorance toward development cycles falls complete on the laps of the investor who expects otherwise. 

     

    If you are here complaining this early in development instead of providing constructive feedback to the developer you are nothing less than painting the words "I am an fool" on your face.

    You stay sassy!

  • AudoucetAudoucet Member UncommonPosts: 69
    Originally posted by Tamanous

    If you do not understand how games are developed ... DO NOT PAY FOR PRE-ALPHA OR ALPHA!

     

    The vast majority of systems in early versions of game testing are first run stock systems. They are made to "simply get something in game". They are not there to be reviewed as complete systems and WILL change often dramatically over the development cycle.

     

    If you paid money to test in order to play a game for fun ... you are a complete and ignorant fool. This is not the time for review and is why most games have an NDA. This is not to hide anything. It is because the game is not a reflection for the future complete product. The game can still stink when finished but ignorance toward development cycles falls complete on the laps of the investor who expects otherwise. 

     

    If you are here complaining this early in development instead of providing constructive feedback to the developer you are nothing less than painting the words "I am an fool" on your face.

    There was never any NDA In PFO. And the game launches in two weeks, with paid subscription and persistent characters. Some people like to call it "paid beta", but a beta would get a reboot on launch, which will not to be the case here.

    If you consider acceptable to call a beta something with absolutely none of the definitions of a beta, you're the fool.

  • chaintmchaintm Member UncommonPosts: 953
    Originally posted by Tamanous

    If you do not understand how games are developed ... DO NOT PAY FOR PRE-ALPHA OR ALPHA!

     

    The vast majority of systems in early versions of game testing are first run stock systems. They are made to "simply get something in game". They are not there to be reviewed as complete systems and WILL change often dramatically over the development cycle.

     

    If you paid money to test in order to play a game for fun ... you are a complete and ignorant fool. This is not the time for review and is why most games have an NDA. This is not to hide anything. It is because the game is not a reflection for the future complete product. The game can still stink when finished but ignorance toward development cycles falls complete on the laps of the investor who expects otherwise. 

     

    If you are here complaining this early in development instead of providing constructive feedback to the developer you are nothing less than painting the words "I am an fool" on your face.

    In other words keep donating suckers, you might not believe what I am saying but you will believe a lie. "IF" this forum was actually the "official" alpha forums I might be with you on your post, but this is not , this is by far the most open forum you will get on opinions on many games (mostly MMO's) . People rack the members on this site for trolling, fact is most of the trolling is spot on in every game in the last few years. Sell your Kangroo Jocky Shorts in some other website, it won't work here, the sad thing about this title is , it's just another doomed money grab that will hurt actual legit titles trying to be made.

    You can preach and pray that people will believe the garbage being thrown out by the company and the fans, but no matter what, one thing is always the truth. The action of said company or development house , it's like a guy in game saying " I never kill anyone in a pvp environment" yet his actual score says otherwise. Believe the lie or believe the action, that's the choice and to be blunt the actions of this development house pretty much says where this "supposed" game is and will be.

    Throwing a bunch of bought assets and code doesn't make a game, it makes a foundations of crap that has no cohesion, hell even the "None official" forums has people speaking of the shitty this or that and how it makes no sense. The only downfall of all of this is people actually bought into a lie, how sad indeed.

     

    "The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  • gobbledygooksgobbledygooks Member Posts: 1
    What part of the experience makes you feel sad chaintm?  Do you envy resources others are willing to spend on endeavors you choose not to embark on?  Please go into more detail regarding why you have these emotional feelings towards a video game; I find your reaction fascinating.
  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355

    Wow this thread certainly turned out the fanboi rage something fierce!!  Not just here, but back on the Paizo forums as well.  It even got the CEO of Goblin Works to respond.

    Here are a few facts to consider:

    1.  PFO is still in its Alpha stage.  

    2.  A majority of its main systems are not in place, and won't be for many months.

    3.  Early Enrollment begins on October 30, 2014 (yes this month).

    4.  Early Enrollment is another way of saying "Paid Beta".

    5.  PFO has more potential than it does game, and everyone needs to know that or should know that if they have been following it or are currently in alpha.

     

     

     

    Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....

  • wmmarcellinowmmarcellino Member UncommonPosts: 94

    I dunno, I think so far, so good.  The Alpha client definitely has some rough edges, but I can't see how it makes sense to complain that a game at the very beginning of its development cycle wouldn't be rough.  I'm very heartened by the delta so far--each new client every two weeks is visibly better than the previous one.  And while I am a little frustrated by how complex and unclear a lot of the systems are, the richness of those systems--combat, character development, economy--is a big deal. 

    I will say the economy part of the game is off to a good start, and is already fun.  It's fun to be part of the gathering resources and working with crafters to get better gear cycle.

    Do the RIGHT THING: come be a Paladin with us! http://ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com/

  • BlueMountainBlueMountain Member UncommonPosts: 147
    Originally posted by wfsaxton
    Originally posted by Canan

    It is people like the OP that make big MMOs have NDAs, seriously. This game is in Alpha, of course it sucks right now, many of it's major features that will define it ARE NOT YET IMPLEMENTED.

    Seriously, have some patients, this is an Indie MMO that has so much potential! Stop trying to give it bad press with your unfounded statements.

     

    Annoying.

    No, wrong.

    I'm not complaining about a game in Alpha.  That's silly.

    I'm complaining about a game that will go live in two weeks with major flaws that will not be fixed by then.

    It isn't going live in two weeks, it gets beyond Alpha if/when it survives the current stress test. Then we enter EE which for all intents and purposes is a closed beta. Only those who kickstarted for EE levels and those players they provide for, plus the alphas will be in the game experiencing it.

    It has at least a year to go before release.

    To dream, perhaps to be.

  • BlueMountainBlueMountain Member UncommonPosts: 147

    Originally posted by Tamanous

    If you paid money to test in order to play a game for fun ... you are a complete and ignorant fool.

    Right. But if you value the potential of the game's design intent, wish to test and get a good grasp of things as they develop, and if you would like to play a role influencing the way the game reaches expression, then you can think of your donation as proof that your interest is constructive, that you have the best interests of the game at heart, and you will have established in a real way that you really support the design.

    To dream, perhaps to be.

  • AudoucetAudoucet Member UncommonPosts: 69
    Originally posted by BlueMountain
    It isn't going live in two weeks, it gets beyond Alpha if/when it survives the current stress test. Then we enter EE which for all intents and purposes is a closed beta. Only those who kickstarted for EE levels and those players they provide for, plus the alphas will be in the game experiencing it.

    It has at least a year to go before release.

    You will pay a subscription in two weeks, you will start playing in two weeks, and you will start accumulating XP which will not be reset, never, in two weeks.

    For all intents and purposes, this is not a beta.

    And certainly not a closed beta lol. You can click here : https://goblinworks.com/shop/cart/add/Early%20Enrollment <= and you will start playing in two weeks.

    And as you can see for yourself, October 30 2014 will be "the game in the 1st month"

    By opposition to "the game in the second month"

    And "The game when the game is better and the community is well evolved, in 2016"

    If that is a beta, well clearly Age of Conan was in beta until now ! They should announce the official launch, everybody will forget the last years and give it a second chance !

    PFO is not a beta, it is a MVP.

  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685

    This is what happens when you have old men trying to re-create nostalgia from the late 90s and early 2000s.  Add to that, an underfunded project that is begging on kickstarter.  This is the same dev studio that is charging a monthly fee to stay in alpha.

  • nennafirnennafir Member UncommonPosts: 313

    Garriot blamed Tabula Ras's failure on bad feedback from beta testers, but to be honest the game was just bad.  They ignored most of the feedback on their forums.

    Honestly, I think (having been in 10+ alphas) that you actually CAN tell how the game will turn out from the game in its alpha state.  It is absolutely, positively true that you can tell how the game will turn out from its beta state.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Member UncommonPosts: 3,105
    Originally posted by wfsaxton

    IN BEFORE "ITS AN ALPHA AND ALL WILL BE FIXED WHEN IT GOES LIVE!!!111ONEONE"

    I won't go into details about the Alpha but...there is NOTHING in the game that impresses me @ all.  The graphics, the net code...nothing.

    I mean, I paid $100 to get EE and I don't even think I plan on playing the game when it releases.  That's how bad the Alpha is.

    Anyone else think the same?

    Sucks?  No but I don;t think it'll be a good game. 

     

    I for one want an old school feeling in my MMO's but by god the game needs to have some vestiges of production quality in decent combat, nice graphics, latency free, etc. etc. etc.

     

    If I'm going to play a game that looks, feels and plays like it was 1999 I'll go back to my old trusty Asheron's Call.  In short I find the issues with the game to be the same ones plaguing the genre.  That is lack of innovation.  Most MMO's released are too copied/Pasted from WoW.  Now I am not calling PFO a WoW clone, but it is too old school in that it doesn't innovate from old school concepts so in short it is the same issue the genre has had for a while now, only in reverse.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • ND280ND280 Member Posts: 1
    Originally posted by observer

    This is what happens when you have old men trying to re-create nostalgia from the late 90s and early 2000s.  Add to that, an underfunded project that is begging on kickstarter.  This is the same dev studio that is charging a monthly fee to stay in alpha.

    There is no monthly charge to stay in alpha. Yes, there are subs once alpha ends, but that's not what your post is trying to convey.

    It speaks volumes that you specifically emphasize something that is well known and easily verifiably wrong.

    Don't believe me? Ask around for an alpha invite. You'll find you're charged nothing to stay in for the remainder of alpha.

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo Member UncommonPosts: 3,219
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by wfsaxton

    IN BEFORE "ITS AN ALPHA AND ALL WILL BE FIXED WHEN IT GOES LIVE!!!111ONEONE"

    I won't go into details about the Alpha but...there is NOTHING in the game that impresses me @ all.  The graphics, the net code...nothing.

    I mean, I paid $100 to get EE and I don't even think I plan on playing the game when it releases.  That's how bad the Alpha is.

    Anyone else think the same?

    Sucks?  No but I don;t think it'll be a good game. 

     

    I for one want an old school feeling in my MMO's but by god the game needs to have some vestiges of production quality in decent combat, nice graphics, latency free, etc. etc. etc.

     

    If I'm going to play a game that looks, feels and plays like it was 1999 I'll go back to my old trusty Asheron's Call.  In short I find the issues with the game to be the same ones plaguing the genre.  That is lack of innovation.  Most MMO's released are too copied/Pasted from WoW.  Now I am not calling PFO a WoW clone, but it is too old school in that it doesn't innovate from old school concepts so in short it is the same issue the genre has had for a while now, only in reverse.

    Well I'm holding off an alpha and wait for EE to try the game. It sounds like it's still very raw.

    That said that probably means it does suck atm tbh.

    But I don't think that should be confused with the game's design backbone which I think is innovative once fully implemented.

    It's based of player-driven game systems; that's the innovation, not the feature set now nor the future feature set over the next 18 months.

    It will be based on some of the industry basics such as tab-target combat; but honestly GW could have gone with simpler graphics imho and the design would still shine through; enough to draw enough players... possibly not, but when we see the player settlements and interactions we'll start to see more of the game's real gameplay beyond combat and go get resources and fight a random mob etc.

  • AudoucetAudoucet Member UncommonPosts: 69
    Originally posted by ND280
    Originally posted by observer

    This is what happens when you have old men trying to re-create nostalgia from the late 90s and early 2000s.  Add to that, an underfunded project that is begging on kickstarter.  This is the same dev studio that is charging a monthly fee to stay in alpha.

    There is no monthly charge to stay in alpha. Yes, there are subs once alpha ends, but that's not what your post is trying to convey.

    It speaks volumes that you specifically emphasize something that is well known and easily verifiably wrong.

    Don't believe me? Ask around for an alpha invite. You'll find you're charged nothing to stay in for the remainder of alpha.

    Well, to be fair, the poor guy who will send him  the invite will have paid 1000$.

    So saying that alpha is free isn't very true, it's just that someone else paid for your.

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Member UncommonPosts: 2,059

    The two main problems I have with the game is it feels like 1999 all over again, while absolutely ignoring any updated modern MMO mechanics that increase accessibility and fun.  The other problem is that this game is in a very early alpha state and they plan on charging (a monthly sub no less!) which opens a whole can of worms.

    Pathfinder Online has some interesting ideas in regards to PvP and the way they are handling dungeons, and I like that so far it seems like they brought back the need to group up and be social for everything; however everything about the game so far is using dilapidated game mechanics.  Not only does it feel like I'm playing a game from 1999 (except maybe the graphics being a tad bit better, not the animations though) it felt like an early alpha from 1999 so in 2 years when it officially "releases" the best I can hope for is something that plays like a MMO from 1999.  The combat is about as boring as you can get in my opinion.  Everything takes so long just for the sake of taking so long (why isn't my time being valued) and there really isn't anything interesting I've seen so far that wasn't present in the original Everquest/UO, much less all the modern stuff from modern MMOs.

    Their low budget isn't a valid excuse either.  There are better efforts out there with even lower budgets.  People mentioned Project Gorgon, and that's one.  The game as it is now looks and feels like something that a group of people threw together as a final project for a game development school in 2-3 months time.  If they blew a good portion of their budget already and have the gall to charge players participating in this alpha for the next 2 years, I can bet that even the most fervent of supporters won't be able to sustain this game's development long enough for it to actually make it to the 2 year launch window.  By then we'll have an even larger variety of MMOs to choose from that won't look like they were developed 15 years ago.

  • HaradNavarHaradNavar Member Posts: 7

    First, I have almost 0 experience in other MMO's,  so I will not be making any comparisons.

    Second, the reason I backed their Kickstarter is their premise that the greatest asset in playing the game is community.

    I will be in EE and I was given an Alpha invite about a month ago. I will agree that the graphics at this point have some issues, but I am there playing and learning the game because I want to be a part of something greater than killing or crafting.  I want to be a part of a settlement defending itself from all threats, monster or PC. I want to be a part of groups of people where playing the game with them far outweighs playing the game alone. I want to help build something that will be there long after I have moved on. I have met some amazing people on the boards and the prospect of building a community with them is a powerful draw. It is my hope that gamers will be able to look beyond what you can DO in game and how you do it. Instead, I hope they can dream about who they can BE in game. 

    Playing solo so far (since settlement mechanics will not be in-game until after the Great Catastrophe about 6-months in) has been fun.  I have enjoyed it. But for me the best is yet to come, when companies, factions, settlement warfare, and nation building are in place.  Heck, I joined to play a monk character knowing that monks will probably not be in till open enrollment in 2016. I have a long view of being in this game, and that is just fine by me.

    Brother Harad Navar of the 36th Order

    Knowledge can explain the darkness, but it is not a light.

  • Gregor999Gregor999 Member Posts: 86

    These developers never learn. If you use a name just to sell a game it just pisses all the fans off and you fail anyways.

     

    See Neverwinter, TESO, DDO, EQ2, etc.

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo Member UncommonPosts: 3,219
    Originally posted by AIMonster

    The two main problems I have with the game is it feels like 1999 all over again, while absolutely ignoring any updated modern MMO mechanics that increase accessibility and fun.  The other problem is that this game is in a very early alpha state and they plan on charging (a monthly sub no less!) which opens a whole can of worms.

    Pathfinder Online has some interesting ideas in regards to PvP and the way they are handling dungeons, and I like that so far it seems like they brought back the need to group up and be social for everything; however everything about the game so far is using dilapidated game mechanics.  Not only does it feel like I'm playing a game from 1999 (except maybe the graphics being a tad bit better, not the animations though) it felt like an early alpha from 1999 so in 2 years when it officially "releases" the best I can hope for is something that plays like a MMO from 1999.  The combat is about as boring as you can get in my opinion.  Everything takes so long just for the sake of taking so long (why isn't my time being valued) and there really isn't anything interesting I've seen so far that wasn't present in the original Everquest/UO, much less all the modern stuff from modern MMOs.

    Their low budget isn't a valid excuse either.  There are better efforts out there with even lower budgets.  People mentioned Project Gorgon, and that's one.  The game as it is now looks and feels like something that a group of people threw together as a final project for a game development school in 2-3 months time.  If they blew a good portion of their budget already and have the gall to charge players participating in this alpha for the next 2 years, I can bet that even the most fervent of supporters won't be able to sustain this game's development long enough for it to actually make it to the 2 year launch window.  By then we'll have an even larger variety of MMOs to choose from that won't look like they were developed 15 years ago.

    I'd say my biggest concern for the game is tab-target combat. I don't know enough about fun vs time input relationship atm without playing it but it's a good angle of enquiry. Not expecting much from alpha or EE day 1... month 3-4.

    The area I think the game is going to shine is:-

    Settlements + Character roles in player run groups. That design is the key imo. I think tab-target may end up being incidental if it gets a chance to grow to that state. Pretty much why I've supported this game and not other fantasy projects.

    The only other design that really interests me is Star Citizen due to the immersion potential looks like another: text -> 2d -> 3d step up in tech and hence experience.

    Shards Online if it gets made could be an interesting model too. But I think the simulation mmorpg world can be very well done with PFO with broad and diverse even if shallow systems highly integrated.

    I think there is player mindset that would find this type of game play appealing to make it profitable. But the biggest risk has been funding then development and now the beta. The longer PFO runs the better it will get.

  • ElirionLothElirionLoth Member UncommonPosts: 308
    Originally posted by Audoucet
    Originally posted by ND280
    Originally posted by observer

    This is what happens when you have old men trying to re-create nostalgia from the late 90s and early 2000s.  Add to that, an underfunded project that is begging on kickstarter.  This is the same dev studio that is charging a monthly fee to stay in alpha.

    There is no monthly charge to stay in alpha. Yes, there are subs once alpha ends, but that's not what your post is trying to convey.

    It speaks volumes that you specifically emphasize something that is well known and easily verifiably wrong.

    Don't believe me? Ask around for an alpha invite. You'll find you're charged nothing to stay in for the remainder of alpha.

    Well, to be fair, the poor guy who will send him  the invite will have paid 1000$.

    So saying that alpha is free isn't very true, it's just that someone else paid for your.

    I've got two keys to give out and didn't pay for alpha.

  • iridescenceiridescence Member UncommonPosts: 1,552
    Originally posted by Asm0deus

    I tried alpha and tbh was quite disappointed, sure there are bug and the like but that is to be expected, it is alpha. Also to be expected is that Early Enrollment is also a ongoing alpha and they never tried to hide this.  BTW EE is like a "head start you get with founder packs " for other games as there will be no wipe unless something major happens.

    The game has potential but it also has some things which I find a big turn off. Some things I do not like:

    ~ ranged attacks are rooted

    Very good thing

     

    ~ no run toggle you need to hold down shift or watnot to "sprint"

    Who gives a shit? I never ever use run toggles in MMOs.

     

    ~ current aggro mechanics result in a leash like behavior

    Not a big deal

    ~ IA is very very stupid

    (assuming you mean AI) show me a game where it isn't stupid

    ~ missing very basic controls that we tend to take for granted in most mmos (in FS cant alt tab without game crashing and things of this nature)

    Granted this sounds annoying although hardly gamebreaking

    ~ crafting is frakking boring and has huge huge craft times

    "boring" is subjective but I think this is good as I hate easymode crafting.

     

     

    ~ skills and their progression are not very intuitive

    ~ they way skills and gear works is confusing for newbies. For example you get the skill frost ray but need a wand to actually use it then when you finally get frost ray 2 you think woot damage upgrade but nada because you need a +1 wand to use frost ray 2, the same thing with armor and armor feats/skills etc etc.

     

    So the game doesn't hold your hand and is rather complex? *good*

     

    I'm finally gonna try out PFO tonight and your inadvertently positive review has got me all hyped. Maybe Blizzard makes an MMO that would be better suited for you though. Seems like you hate virtually everything about PFO's design.

     

     

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405

    I am not excited about PFO based on what I have seen so far. I don't like that they used what is basically d20 D&D for their name but didn't use any of the game systems. The graphics look bad, and the HUD on the character was a bad move imo.

    Philosophically a lot of what they are doing is so very right though.

    I almost want to support this game just because of the system of PvP where purposeful PvP is encouraged, but dipshit PKing is punished. True to form, the MMO bullies are the biggest crybabies. "I wanted to grief somebody and I got killed by the NPCs," makes me feel that the NPCs were the hero in that story.

    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • iridescenceiridescence Member UncommonPosts: 1,552
    Originally posted by Archlyte

    I am not excited about PFO based on what I have seen so far. I don't like that they used what is basically d20 D&D for their name but didn't use any of the game systems. The graphics look bad, and the HUD on the character was a bad move imo.

    Their game is based on this:

     

    http://paizo.com/pathfinder/adventurePath/kingmaker

     

    and they use quite a few systems from D20 (although not all).

     

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    Originally posted by iridescence
    Originally posted by Archlyte

    I am not excited about PFO based on what I have seen so far. I don't like that they used what is basically d20 D&D for their name but didn't use any of the game systems. The graphics look bad, and the HUD on the character was a bad move imo.

    Their game is based on this:

     

    http://paizo.com/pathfinder/adventurePath/kingmaker

     

    and they use quite a few systems from D20 (although not all).

     

    Wait, so the Pathfinder ruleset was not the inspiration, it was this building game ruleset that has the same name? Can you tell me a little of what they used from the character and combat rules of d20?

    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • chums54chums54 Member Posts: 28
    Originally posted by Audoucet
    Originally posted by BlueMountain
    It isn't going live in two weeks, it gets beyond Alpha if/when it survives the current stress test. Then we enter EE which for all intents and purposes is a closed beta. Only those who kickstarted for EE levels and those players they provide for, plus the alphas will be in the game experiencing it.

    It has at least a year to go before release.

    You will pay a subscription in two weeks, you will start playing in two weeks, and you will start accumulating XP which will not be reset, never, in two weeks.

    For all intents and purposes, this is not a beta.

    And certainly not a closed beta lol. You can click here : https://goblinworks.com/shop/cart/add/Early%20Enrollment <= and you will start playing in two weeks.

    And as you can see for yourself, October 30 2014 will be "the game in the 1st month"

    By opposition to "the game in the second month"

    And "The game when the game is better and the community is well evolved, in 2016"

    If that is a beta, well clearly Age of Conan was in beta until now ! They should announce the official launch, everybody will forget the last years and give it a second chance !

    PFO is not a beta, it is a MVP.

    So you're playing a game that doesn't even have the core features added until Jan, 2016. So.... Beta then......

    If a game isn't adding the "CORE FEATURES" and is only allow certain people to play that paid "x" amount of money. That is what we like to call beta. It really doesn't matter if they do a wipe or not. This is still just a beta.

    Sorry you feel like you got screwed but you all always take that chance when you do Kick Starter. Learn from your mistake and stop donating if you don't like the results.

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