P2P will always have something over F2P games no matter what happens, Incentive to play. F2P games tend to be (imho) games that aren't as good, and you just play them when you are bored or if they're new. Soon you'll go back to a P2P game. The P2P model relies on the human instinct that it is better because you have to pay for it.
It's like a car. Everybody thinks that BMW's are better than a Dodge, because of price. However, BMW's break down all the time and have all kinds of problems, even with 20k or less miles on them. The price of entry is what keeps you wanting to play a P2P, since you want to get your money's worth. F2P has no real world incentive to play it for any extended period of time.
F2P is a misnomer anyways. In my experience F2P games cost more than P2P games.
F2P is the future if mmo developers keep making games that are not worth the $15/month payment. People do not have a problem paying for a mmo month to month. But it needs to do 6 things.
1) Be a solid finished game
2) Have substantial content that will keep its players from getting bored (Major issue in the genre now with the focus on quick paces casual only content, people will not pay to play a game that they get bored in)
3) Be Fun to play
4) Has deep gameplay, lore, story, background, and mechanics. (Not Shallow)
5) Not be a subpar copy paste of a mmo that has over 7million subs already.
Companys are over focusing on assessability to the point of having a mmo that can be 100% finished in the same time an offline mmo can almost. MMO companys are over focusing on revolutionizing something. Why is no one focusing on making a deep rich game, that has loads of content to do, a living breathing non-lobby style world with solid PvE and PvP elements. Something I can play for 1-2 hrs at time and have fun as well as being able to play 2000hrs a year and still have stuff meaningfull to do.
The mmo genre keeps moving more and more towards the consol genre in terms of game design. Quick paced short lived content. all reward no work. Themepark only design (Game on Rails). No major barriers. Solo Focus game play. Pure casual focus. IF this continues yes they will all be F2P and they should be.
And I agree with the poster above on F2P costing more.If you play any current F2P mmo and want to be top notch you will pay 3-10fold the sub fee every month to pevent people from getting better then you. (That is the p2w aspect that all f2p mmos seem to have in common to this point)
F2P is a misnomer anyways. In my experience F2P games cost more than P2P games.
May be for you. Certainly not for me, or a majority of the players who play for free.
I agree... I haven't paid one red cent on a F2P game to date... it's the impatient and those who have to have it all NOW that spend money... it doesn't need to be F2P to tap those wallets, those people are just itching to throw their money away.
What y‘all don’t grasp is that by “Completely Free To Play” the author mean free of any cost, meaning the developer doesn’t get paid. The author believe that roads, parks, and schools appear out of nowhere without cost. P4F gamers believe they should be able to play games without spending money. They are entitled to unfettered access to all feature and game play without cost.
Developer are working on totally free games. They are also working on systems to block non-cash shop spending players. Player that don’t spend will have their game play throttled. Their actions will be slower and take longer. Their DPS, HP, Mana, & Defense will be lower, behind the scene not on the character sheet. They will look like a level 50 with B.I.S. gear but they will dice roll at 75% - 90%. They may look like a paying customer, but they wont feel like a paying customer.
Enjoy the stealth P2W when it comes, or it may already be here.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
What y‘all don’t grasp is that by “Completely Free To Play” the author mean free of any cost, meaning the developer doesn’t get paid. The author believe that roads, parks, and schools appear out of nowhere without cost. P4F gamers believe they should be able to play games without spending money. They are entitled to unfettered access to all feature and game play without cost.
Developer are working on totally free games. They are also working on systems to block non-cash shop spending players. Player that don’t spend will have their game play throttled. Their actions will be slower and take longer. Their DPS, HP, Mana, & Defense will be lower, behind the scene not on the character sheet. They will look like a level 50 with B.I.S. gear but they will dice roll at 75% - 90%. They may look like a paying customer, but they wont feel like a paying customer.
Enjoy the stealth P2W when it comes, or it may already be here.
How is this different than the current F2P games? Most F2P games have subs that give the subscriber a bonus. How is this 'Completely Free to Play'?
I agree mostly that F2P is the future. Avalon (the MUD I play) has just gone free to play in the last three months or so and it's made a significant difference to player activity.
Fact is there is NO F2P game out there. And would make no sense team of people working years and spending a lot of money for jerks that would love to eat, sleep, have sex, ...all for free.
Originally posted by daltanious Fact is there is NO F2P game out there. And would make no sense team of people working years and spending a lot of money for jerks that would love to eat, sleep, have sex, ...all for free.
There are plenty of F2P games. There are also some Free games. However, F2P games are not Free games.
Didnt you ever wonder why they are marketed as F2P and not as Free. F2P is basically Free (w/ disclaimers that some aspects of gameplay may cost money). By using the specific terminology rather than the broader language, they are able to more clearly identify what they are offering. Sure, they could use the term 'Free' and include the disclaimers, but it just isnt as catchy.. and this is all about marketing.
Originally posted by daltanious Fact is there is NO F2P game out there. And would make no sense team of people working years and spending a lot of money for jerks that would love to eat, sleep, have sex, ...all for free.
hmm .. i play STO for a while, and paid exactly zero. If that is not F2P for me, what is?
F2P is a misnomer anyways. In my experience F2P games cost more than P2P games.
May be for you. Certainly not for me, or a majority of the players who play for free.
As long as you and this "majority of the players" understand that someone else needs to pay for your free ride then it's all good.
And like all F2P Games out there, there is always something that will make it P2W, after all, they need people to buy something. For me, that's a big No-No.
F2P is a misnomer anyways. In my experience F2P games cost more than P2P games.
May be for you. Certainly not for me, or a majority of the players who play for free.
As long as you and this "majority of the players" understand that someone else needs to pay for your free ride then it's all good.
And like all F2P Games out there, there is always something that will make it P2W, after all, they need people to buy something. For me, that's a big No-No.
Even if no player could pay for anything, it would not be free by this definition... because someone had to pay for the game to be developed (time/money, etc). There is no immaculate conception of games, where no one ever put anything into it. This also applies to real items.. like free beer. Even if you dont pay for it, someone did.
What y‘all don’t grasp is that by “Completely Free To Play” the author mean free of any cost, meaning the developer doesn’t get paid. The author believe that roads, parks, and schools appear out of nowhere without cost. P4F gamers believe they should be able to play games without spending money. They are entitled to unfettered access to all feature and game play without cost.
Developer are working on totally free games. They are also working on systems to block non-cash shop spending players. Player that don’t spend will have their game play throttled. Their actions will be slower and take longer. Their DPS, HP, Mana, & Defense will be lower, behind the scene not on the character sheet. They will look like a level 50 with B.I.S. gear but they will dice roll at 75% - 90%. They may look like a paying customer, but they wont feel like a paying customer.
Enjoy the stealth P2W when it comes, or it may already be here.
Lol, no they aren't.
Do you have any clue how quickly any sort of back-end tampering would be discovered? Plus, that sort of info spreads like a virus. The game would be dead before they'd have a chance to respond, not to mention any other game that the publisher puts out there. Sorry, it's not worth the risk when they can simply sell you cash shop potions directly. They've got to deal with P2W talk, but even that's becoming white noise these days anyway. What you're talking about is outright shenanigans. That's not going to happen, sorry.
F2P is a misnomer anyways. In my experience F2P games cost more than P2P games.
May be for you. Certainly not for me, or a majority of the players who play for free.
As long as you and this "majority of the players" understand that someone else needs to pay for your free ride then it's all good.
And like all F2P Games out there, there is always something that will make it P2W, after all, they need people to buy something. For me, that's a big No-No.
Yeah .. what is so mysterious that whales pay for f2p games, and we don't?
And yes, there is always some p2w. ... so? Since I play pve, and most of the time solo, there is no "winning" so it does not concern me.
I am there to enjoy the game, not to PK, or compete with others.
And as in COMPLETLY free to play...League of Legends is best example and MMORPG's should start adopting this. Reality is the experienced gamer can enjoy a lot of great games free out there to justify paying for a game these days, especially one with sub attached.
I'd prefer seeing more MMORPGs use the F2P model of DOTA over League of Legends. League's content (Champion, Ranked Match) is gated by the amount of time you spend or the money you pay. DOTA on the other hand offers the full experience for free, sells EXP Boosters and vanity items, and also harnesses the power of user-generated content to sell in their shop (which they will receive a cut from). This last part is where I'd really like to see more MMORPGs go. Let players make content for you, and monetize it. On one hand the content creators will get a cut, and you as a company gets the rest. What's more, the money they get back is often reinvested back into the game.
DOTA also offers Tournament Compedium which offers many neat features of viewers and where a percentage of the money spent goes towards the prize pool, thus making the tournament much more appealing and interested. The latest Tournament's (International 4) had a prize pool over $10 millions after the initial $1.6 million investment by Valve.
The way F2P titles should go, in my opinion, is by directly involving players to the game and all aspects attached to that game. Don't view gamers solely as customers, because that way you are effectively limiting the potential of your own product. View them as people will tons of preferences and hobbies, and build your product to harness that power.
And as in COMPLETLY free to play...League of Legends is best example and MMORPG's should start adopting this. Reality is the experienced gamer can enjoy a lot of great games free out there to justify paying for a game these days, especially one with sub attached.
MMORPG's should start adopting a more modern payment model if they want to stay competitive and attractive. Payment models such as adding advertisement ingame that fits for the virtual world. Have system in place where players are welcome to donate if they enjoy the product, but give them limited recognition, like supporter tag on forums, something like Path of Exile does.
Reality is completely free to play is the new player in town and it's taking the market rapidly by surprise. Fact is the bigger the playerbase you attract, the better it is for your product, free advertising through word of mouth and more potential players more potential ways to get $ floating to your product.
So, I won't be surprised at all if the next AAA MMORPG's coming in the next few years come completely free to play. Times are indeed changing and for the better for us the players. I've bought every single expensaion on release for WOW since launch, but it won't be the case anymore.
Bottom line is, why pay to enjoy a game when I'm already enjoying another one for free? The free will always have priority.
I'll agree with this when 90% of MMO gamers get a personality transplant.
F2P is open season to be every kind of "worst" the human race can be/act like.
Thanks, but no thanks! I'd pay subs of £25 a month if it meant avoiding F2Pers.
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
F2P is a misnomer anyways. In my experience F2P games cost more than P2P games.
May be for you. Certainly not for me, or a majority of the players who play for free.
As long as you and this "majority of the players" understand that someone else needs to pay for your free ride then it's all good.
And like all F2P Games out there, there is always something that will make it P2W, after all, they need people to buy something. For me, that's a big No-No.
For me the best payment model for the best player experience is the sub model. As a compromise and with little negative effect, cash shops added to sub model for frivolous items only is the best model for both the players and devs.
The OP's title is preposterous. F2P isn't the future, it's the now. It was the future when DDO went F2P and then made a bunch of money.
Well I agree the OP is preposterous but because it says that one business model will work for all games. Never mind that LoL has like a hundred million players and that's the only way it's able to be "completely free to play" because even if a small fraction of their player base actually pays they still make a ton of cash. Also ignore that LoL has much smaller development costs than an actual MMO to produce new content. It's akin to saying "If I open a small restaurant and try to copy everything McDonalds does I'll get rich too! Oh yeah, and I'm not gonna sell fast food. I'm going to open a luxury restaurant and run it like a fast food restaurant." Yeah, good luck with that.
Also I don't think OP would be satisfied with DDO's model since he wants everything for free and DDO just lets you try the game and play it on a very basic level for free but charges you (or makes you grind the same content a lot) to unlock most things.
Originally posted by DMKanoF2P + cash shop is the present for many games, and future to remaining P2P games.My educated guess - for some it will come sooner (ESO, WS) than later (WoW, FF14ARR)Other smaller niche games (like Darkfall) can remain P2P as long as their operational costs are kept small (small team, small number of servers) - so they don't require a large playerbase to keep going.
These same points were made about email services in the early 2000's. Everyone said that free email was junk, and that no one would ever take it seriously.
Today free email is the standard... but paid email is still doing just fine. They satisfy different needs, just like free vs paid gaming. The future is likely to be very similar, with free being the standard, but with paid models doing just fine as well.
Apples and oranges. Free email only survived becasue of names like Google and Yahoo sponsoring them....more than likely as loss leaders. While Free internet from NetZero and Juno went belly up. Now it looks like Turbine is struggling to make a truth out of the title in this thread.
Comments
P2P will always have something over F2P games no matter what happens, Incentive to play. F2P games tend to be (imho) games that aren't as good, and you just play them when you are bored or if they're new. Soon you'll go back to a P2P game. The P2P model relies on the human instinct that it is better because you have to pay for it.
It's like a car. Everybody thinks that BMW's are better than a Dodge, because of price. However, BMW's break down all the time and have all kinds of problems, even with 20k or less miles on them. The price of entry is what keeps you wanting to play a P2P, since you want to get your money's worth. F2P has no real world incentive to play it for any extended period of time.
F2P is a misnomer anyways. In my experience F2P games cost more than P2P games.
F2P is the future if mmo developers keep making games that are not worth the $15/month payment. People do not have a problem paying for a mmo month to month. But it needs to do 6 things.
1) Be a solid finished game
2) Have substantial content that will keep its players from getting bored (Major issue in the genre now with the focus on quick paces casual only content, people will not pay to play a game that they get bored in)
3) Be Fun to play
4) Has deep gameplay, lore, story, background, and mechanics. (Not Shallow)
5) Not be a subpar copy paste of a mmo that has over 7million subs already.
Companys are over focusing on assessability to the point of having a mmo that can be 100% finished in the same time an offline mmo can almost. MMO companys are over focusing on revolutionizing something. Why is no one focusing on making a deep rich game, that has loads of content to do, a living breathing non-lobby style world with solid PvE and PvP elements. Something I can play for 1-2 hrs at time and have fun as well as being able to play 2000hrs a year and still have stuff meaningfull to do.
The mmo genre keeps moving more and more towards the consol genre in terms of game design. Quick paced short lived content. all reward no work. Themepark only design (Game on Rails). No major barriers. Solo Focus game play. Pure casual focus. IF this continues yes they will all be F2P and they should be.
And I agree with the poster above on F2P costing more.If you play any current F2P mmo and want to be top notch you will pay 3-10fold the sub fee every month to pevent people from getting better then you. (That is the p2w aspect that all f2p mmos seem to have in common to this point)
May be for you. Certainly not for me, or a majority of the players who play for free.
Immaculate conception
I agree... I haven't paid one red cent on a F2P game to date... it's the impatient and those who have to have it all NOW that spend money... it doesn't need to be F2P to tap those wallets, those people are just itching to throw their money away.
What y‘all don’t grasp is that by “Completely Free To Play” the author mean free of any cost, meaning the developer doesn’t get paid. The author believe that roads, parks, and schools appear out of nowhere without cost. P4F gamers believe they should be able to play games without spending money. They are entitled to unfettered access to all feature and game play without cost.
Developer are working on totally free games. They are also working on systems to block non-cash shop spending players. Player that don’t spend will have their game play throttled. Their actions will be slower and take longer. Their DPS, HP, Mana, & Defense will be lower, behind the scene not on the character sheet. They will look like a level 50 with B.I.S. gear but they will dice roll at 75% - 90%. They may look like a paying customer, but they wont feel like a paying customer.
Enjoy the stealth P2W when it comes, or it may already be here.Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
How is this different than the current F2P games? Most F2P games have subs that give the subscriber a bonus. How is this 'Completely Free to Play'?
8 years and counting addicted to
Avalon: The Legend Lives - the longest running online RPG in history
There are plenty of F2P games. There are also some Free games. However, F2P games are not Free games.
Didnt you ever wonder why they are marketed as F2P and not as Free. F2P is basically Free (w/ disclaimers that some aspects of gameplay may cost money). By using the specific terminology rather than the broader language, they are able to more clearly identify what they are offering. Sure, they could use the term 'Free' and include the disclaimers, but it just isnt as catchy.. and this is all about marketing.
hmm .. i play STO for a while, and paid exactly zero. If that is not F2P for me, what is?
As long as you and this "majority of the players" understand that someone else needs to pay for your free ride then it's all good.
And like all F2P Games out there, there is always something that will make it P2W, after all, they need people to buy something. For me, that's a big No-No.
Even if no player could pay for anything, it would not be free by this definition... because someone had to pay for the game to be developed (time/money, etc). There is no immaculate conception of games, where no one ever put anything into it. This also applies to real items.. like free beer. Even if you dont pay for it, someone did.
Lol, no they aren't.
Do you have any clue how quickly any sort of back-end tampering would be discovered? Plus, that sort of info spreads like a virus. The game would be dead before they'd have a chance to respond, not to mention any other game that the publisher puts out there. Sorry, it's not worth the risk when they can simply sell you cash shop potions directly. They've got to deal with P2W talk, but even that's becoming white noise these days anyway. What you're talking about is outright shenanigans. That's not going to happen, sorry.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Please don't compare MOBA's to MMORPGs...it's bad enough that MOBA players think combat in MMO's should be MOBA style....
As for F2P...please name me 1 game that released as a FTP game and was worth a damn? Maybe Neverwinter, but it's still not as good as most AAA games.
Remember, i said RELEASED as FTP. Don't say Archeage...it just wasnt...
The western examples of F2P games are:
Runescape (2001)
Maple Story (2003)
Club Penguin (2005)
These are really that games that made the F2P (MMORPG) market in the west.
Yeah .. what is so mysterious that whales pay for f2p games, and we don't?
And yes, there is always some p2w. ... so? Since I play pve, and most of the time solo, there is no "winning" so it does not concern me.
I am there to enjoy the game, not to PK, or compete with others.
I'd prefer seeing more MMORPGs use the F2P model of DOTA over League of Legends. League's content (Champion, Ranked Match) is gated by the amount of time you spend or the money you pay. DOTA on the other hand offers the full experience for free, sells EXP Boosters and vanity items, and also harnesses the power of user-generated content to sell in their shop (which they will receive a cut from). This last part is where I'd really like to see more MMORPGs go. Let players make content for you, and monetize it. On one hand the content creators will get a cut, and you as a company gets the rest. What's more, the money they get back is often reinvested back into the game.
DOTA also offers Tournament Compedium which offers many neat features of viewers and where a percentage of the money spent goes towards the prize pool, thus making the tournament much more appealing and interested. The latest Tournament's (International 4) had a prize pool over $10 millions after the initial $1.6 million investment by Valve.
The way F2P titles should go, in my opinion, is by directly involving players to the game and all aspects attached to that game. Don't view gamers solely as customers, because that way you are effectively limiting the potential of your own product. View them as people will tons of preferences and hobbies, and build your product to harness that power.
"Worth a damn" is subjective.
Worth a damn to me ... Marvel Heroes ... ONLY recent RPG with marvel characters. The last one was Marvel Ultimate Alliance 1 & 2 .. many years ago.
And btw, it has a 81 on metacritics, and 8.1 user score ... so apparently it is "worth a damn" not only to me.
I'll agree with this when 90% of MMO gamers get a personality transplant.
F2P is open season to be every kind of "worst" the human race can be/act like.
Thanks, but no thanks! I'd pay subs of £25 a month if it meant avoiding F2Pers.
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
For me the best payment model for the best player experience is the sub model. As a compromise and with little negative effect, cash shops added to sub model for frivolous items only is the best model for both the players and devs.
The OP's title is preposterous. F2P isn't the future, it's the now. It was the future when DDO went F2P and then made a bunch of money.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Well I agree the OP is preposterous but because it says that one business model will work for all games. Never mind that LoL has like a hundred million players and that's the only way it's able to be "completely free to play" because even if a small fraction of their player base actually pays they still make a ton of cash. Also ignore that LoL has much smaller development costs than an actual MMO to produce new content. It's akin to saying "If I open a small restaurant and try to copy everything McDonalds does I'll get rich too! Oh yeah, and I'm not gonna sell fast food. I'm going to open a luxury restaurant and run it like a fast food restaurant." Yeah, good luck with that.
Also I don't think OP would be satisfied with DDO's model since he wants everything for free and DDO just lets you try the game and play it on a very basic level for free but charges you (or makes you grind the same content a lot) to unlock most things.
Apples and oranges. Free email only survived becasue of names like Google and Yahoo sponsoring them....more than likely as loss leaders. While Free internet from NetZero and Juno went belly up. Now it looks like Turbine is struggling to make a truth out of the title in this thread.