EQN is obviously being designed with consoles in mind the same way ESO was designed for console release. Don't buy the limited quickbar nonsense it's better for game play, it's cause controllers have limited buttons!
Yup this exactly, people spouting limited quickbar slots is better gameplay are controller fans or people with the console mentality.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
EQN is obviously being designed with consoles in mind the same way ESO was designed for console release. Don't buy the limited quickbar nonsense it's better for game play, it's cause controllers have limited buttons!
Yup this exactly, people spouting limited quickbar slots is better gameplay are controller fans or people with the console mentality.
True, I played EQ with a Dreamcast controller back in 99...a kb/m setup was a total waste for such a twitch based game.
2 Weapon Sets with 4 abilities each, can be swapped during combat. GW2 classes (generally speaking) had 10 visible with 5 on 2nd weapon = 15 total. Same concept.
I think the class system has some potential, but it's not really classes, they would have been better named something else. 4 buttons is not a class to me. I don't care what game had 5 or 8 buttons or 2, that shit sucks, and there's no getting around it. I don't want to have a tiny few buttons.
I agree that they should of took the time to think up something else to call it because I'm still missing how they work in one character being able to be 40 "classes" doesn't make much sense from a roleplay/lore stand point. They are basically basic builds to work with and the build options are pretty endless. 12 is fairly small, but I've gone back and looked at previous games and I never really used too high a number even with a lot available. Between the long duration buffs, fluff, and redundant skills, most games could easily get by with fewer. Just find it odd that so many praise early EQ, yet seem to forget it only had 8 skills, some classes were even less (melee) that were actually needed each fight.
I imagine the reason is that having 16 buttons would break their system, and in PvP/PvE the 16 button guy would destroy the 8 button Console pounder. SO that cuts off a revenue stream and is verboten. If they have separate servers for PS4 and PC, then I guess it just means they thought their idea was milk from the golden calf, and drank the groupthink juice like when they decided that Little Mermaid characters would be cool as all get out.
I'm highly doubting we'll see EQN on PS4 any time soon and even if it makes it, not shared servers. Even still, GW2, WoW and especially FFXIV ARR are all playable with a controller. While it makes sense that controller = design for fewer skills, it doesn't really have to. I think FF has 32 skills possible through creative key mapping.
So adding combinations requires animation work, so that is probably something you can forget ever happening. When you are Warrior primary and hold a spear, you get those animations because that Warrior/Spear/1 action is hard locked. You can change out 5678 buttons, but the weapon sets are fixed, so I'm not falling for the "classes built from scratch" pitch. You get Warrior Spear with what is essentially a tree for 5678 but locked to warrior prefix (Movement,Offense, Offense, Defense, etc.).
I'm curious how animations will work with skills from other classes. I'm guessing either the 8 skills tied to weapons and unswappable will be more of the unique animations/stances, while 4 secondary skills will be more generic animations so they work with all races/classes. They did say there would be skill "combos" but what that means is unknown.
I think you made good points. See what I mean about how the toolbars and skills play out as described though? You can swap out the sets (which is nice) but are those four (W1a W1b W1c W1d) static within the set? I bet they will be upgradeable by tier, but even if there was wild options and variety, you are talking about 12 choices total for a weapon set through a career.
I think those animations will be set for class: Warrior Spear 1-4, Warrior Club/shield 1-4, and buttons 5-8 will be generic animations as you said, or maybe race-based.
This whole setup just reeks of a mistake though. I hope they change their mind on some of it, especially the mouselook takeover that occurs when combat starts.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Weapon Sets can be swapped in combat, or at least they said so previously.
OH.. I assume you are using 8 total weapon skills assuming you can interchange them instantly without any penalty or cool down? That sounds lame..
Like GW2, EQN would have 8 instead of 10 active weapon skills. I would like to see the 4 secondary (swap slots) be useful skills and not just total fluff or OP must haves. GW2 had some decent ones, but a lot of them were pretty useless.
Brace yourself, because I think that is EXACTLY what you're going to see.. A fluff homogenized blend of skills.. Blink or Dash? or maybe you can pick a 50pt Magic Shield or a 50pt Nature Shield..
I think the class system has some potential, but it's not really classes, they would have been better named something else. 4 buttons is not a class to me. I don't care what game had 5 or 8 buttons or 2, that shit sucks, and there's no getting around it. I don't want to have a tiny few buttons. True.. they really aren't classes, they are more just skill packets, and window dressing of the same skill just dressed differently..
I'll agree with the skill packet ("Class" is a poor choice by them), but there is no evidence of the "same skill just dressed differently" yet. Not that it couldn't be the case. While I doubt each class will be 95% unique like EQ, no reason each will be a carbon copy either.
The only reason they have as many classes as they promote, or skills, or whatever they are calling it.. Is because they have relabeled and redressed the same combat numbers in different clothes.. I'm flabergassed how so many can hype and get excited with so little intel and misleading info..
(Same way you can be so critical?)
So you don't like the class/skill set up in any mmorpg or game? You've broke it down to the most basic level so obviously it is "the same" for each class. Regardless if you are comparing a Warrior to a Cleric, then you just have DD dmg vs DD heal or an EQ class to GW2, they all function like you describe.
Not even close.. Now we are talking about the issues twitch brings up vs. tab targeting.. EQN is only going to give you what I described previously.. Without tab targeting, do you really expect people to have skills like "single target heals"? or "Charm"? or "damage shield"? other then yourself.. There will be a lot of skills and roles unavailable due to the lack of tab targeting, and with that naturally comes with the reduction of classes.. UNLESS, you minimize the number of skills per class and also redress most of the similar skills..
I've never seen a game not set up this way. What usually differentiates classes and basic skills is the secondary attributes. DD + Snare, DD + Dot, DD + Debuff, DD + Self Heal, etc. Not to mention Debuffs, Buffs, Heals, CC, Utility themselves, minus any damage. (see above)
Since EQN won't be a vertical power stacking game, it appears they are heavily focusing on the secondary type parts of skills.
Did you watch this? If so, we must be seeing it completely differently.
Yes, I watched it and found it depressing.. They promoted and excused redressing similar skills.. Origins? Type? cough.. All they are doing is mixing up A,B,C with 1,2,3 and giving people a visual choices of, "I'm a A2 warrior".. and how is that A2 warriors damage any different then a A1, B3 or A3".. Basically NONE.. They all will do 50 points of damage, just some will call it death damage, or martial damage, or fire damage.. etc etc..
Pretend with me:
DD + Dot (Fire Type) + item that makes all Fire skills heal for Dot amount + achievement that doubles Fire skill duration. Just turned a DD + Dot into a pretty decent self heal. Then again it is JUST a DD skill...
NO NO NO.. That was NEVER said by SOE and is all your assumption.. This is what happens when the lack of intel is unavailable, people end up taking an inch and running with it to create a mile..
I have yet to see ONE FULL class set up of skills and abilities yet.. I wonder why? I hear endless talk and hype, but absolutely nothing to sink my teeth into.. Warrior is one of the starting classes, so obviously they have it complete.. I would like to see the 4 weapon skills both in animation and FULL discription... Then I want to hear in detail what their 4 class skills are.. I don't think telling us and showing us a FULL class disclosure of a starting character is going to break the bank..
They have no reason to. What AAA games have you seen that give out full class details pre-Alpha/Alpha or whatever we want to call EQN's current state? They have nothing to prove to you or entice you into playing/paying for something not available any time soon. Heck, they might not have one class complete yet. No clue how it works, but I'm betting if they get to class 23 and see it uses X skill type better, they might go back to class 15 and change it a bit. Why would they give any full even "work in progress" class fully? Only leaves room for more complaining and we have no context how any of it would work regardless.
Well there you go.. TY for admitting that SOE has NOTHING in stone, or even anything to scratched out to sink our teeth into.. As I said above, people are running wild with hype and imagination of "what could be", vs what actually is.. BTW, Since you admit that SOE or any AAA games don't give out details, why do you and others keep telling up that they DO TELL US the info, and we just need to go find it..
It is still a fantasy mmorpg, no matter the number of skills on a bar, total classes, or whatever else. Shouldn't be that hard to figure out what is going on. Spend a couple minutes playing EQ, WoW, GW2, Tera, SMITE and use some imagination. They aren't reinventing the wheel.
Like I have said before, EQN is running down the hype train at full speed and SOE is fueling it.. I"m not just picking on SOE, but all devs that try to BS their product prior to official marketing.. See, legally a company can only say or do limited talking points without getting into advertising problems.. However, if you do vague unoffic blogs and podcast, then you can get away it, since it's not official marketing..
I think you made good points. See what I mean about how the toolbars and skills play out as described though? You can swap out the sets (which is nice) but are those four (W1a W1b W1c W1d) static within the set? I bet they will be upgradeable by tier, but even if there was wild options and variety, you are talking about 12 choices total for a weapon set through a career.
So far 4 per weapon, 2 weapons per class is all they've said with all 8 being static sadly. I'm hoping there are various Tiers or upgrades of some sort (different skills, not power stacking), but doubting it. Seems like the 4 secondary slots are more likely to have choices down the road.
12 or so skills per class is pretty limiting, luckily since players can swap at least 4, gear/achievements impact the 12 to do whatever variations, there is plenty of options.
Beyond all that, if you get tired of a Warrior's 12, switch to a Blademaster, Shadowknight, Thief, etc. The system encourages multi-classing. If someone wants to be a Druid forever and gets bored, that's on them, they aren't taking advantage of the full system.
I think those animations will be set for class: Warrior Spear 1-4, Warrior Club/shield 1-4, and buttons 5-8 will be generic animations as you said, or maybe race-based. Ya, while I hope they spend a lot of time on it, would rather play the game then have a million different ways to cast a Fireball.
This whole setup just reeks of a mistake though. I hope they change their mind on some of it, especially the mouselook takeover that occurs when combat starts.
They haven't shown any UI with player POV with EQN combat yet, so it could be like Landmark or different. It will require aiming though so doubt it will be too different.
Weapon Sets can be swapped in combat, or at least they said so previously.
OH.. I assume you are using 8 total weapon skills assuming you can interchange them instantly without any penalty or cool down? That sounds lame..
You know as much as I do. Assuming it will have some sort of resource cost or cool down, not too unlike GW2 or other games that have weapon swapping.
Like GW2, EQN would have 8 instead of 10 active weapon skills. I would like to see the 4 secondary (swap slots) be useful skills and not just total fluff or OP must haves. GW2 had some decent ones, but a lot of them were pretty useless.
Brace yourself, because I think that is EXACTLY what you're going to see.. A fluff homogenized blend of skills.. Blink or Dash? or maybe you can pick a 50pt Magic Shield or a 50pt Nature Shield..
Still to be seen though. If the 8 weapon skills are varied enough that 4 secondary can be as needed skills, should be fine. Again, each 12 will be a build, along with gear/achievements. You make them for specific content, such as their "Anti-Mage" example. Instead of one class/build having access to 50 skills at a time removing a lot of the pre-planning/strat. Both serve a purpose, but fit different games.
So you don't like the class/skill set up in any mmorpg or game? You've broke it down to the most basic level so obviously it is "the same" for each class. Regardless if you are comparing a Warrior to a Cleric, then you just have DD dmg vs DD heal or an EQ class to GW2, they all function like you describe.
Not even close.. Now we are talking about the issues twitch brings up vs. tab targeting.. EQN is only going to give you what I described previously.. Without tab targeting, do you really expect people to have skills like "single target heals"? or "Charm"? or "damage shield"? other then yourself.. There will be a lot of skills and roles unavailable due to the lack of tab targeting, and with that naturally comes with the reduction of classes.. UNLESS, you minimize the number of skills per class and also redress most of the similar skills..
We are totally in the dark when it comes to this. As they are going for action combat (twitch to those that like to stand in place), combat should be faster. No you probably won't see a class that can Charm/Mez/Sleep 5 mobs at once and micro manage only, but that would be by design. Again, different games have different systems. Doesn't mean a class couldn't specialize in CC type skills. They would simply have more to do then just CC CC CC CC.
If they go for more AOE (such as the Cleric's offensive/defensive bubble thing from the video), what is the need for single target stuff? If you are a group of 5, 10, 20+ vs 25-50+ mobs, do you need to CC 5 of them or single target heal someone? Remember no forced dedicated tanks/healers. Combat is supposed to be larger scale, not packs of 5-10 mobs scattered around in static spots to slowly kill (Pull one, kill, pull one kill, pull 2, CC one, kill other.....) More like rush in and take on 20 mobs at once. Easy to go down the DPSfest path, but we'll see how creative they get and how well the AI works in combat. Heck maybe mobs can CC just as well and a class spends 50/50 time CCing and breaking friendly CC effects?
Did you watch this? If so, we must be seeing it completely differently.
Yes, I watched it and found it depressing.. They promoted and excused redressing similar skills.. Origins? Type? cough.. All they are doing is mixing up A,B,C with 1,2,3 and giving people a visual choices of, "I'm a A2 warrior".. and how is that A2 warriors damage any different then a A1, B3 or A3".. Basically NONE.. They all will do 50 points of damage, just some will call it death damage, or martial damage, or fire damage.. etc etc..
While you can make that assumption, they didn't actually show anything like your idea directly. Yes Warrior A might do 50 dmg with Skill 1 and Warrior B might do 50 dmg with Skill 1, but if Warrior B has Item X that changes Skill 1 to do Y, they are now different. Be it a life-leach, dot, heal, buff, debuff, snare, whatever. You start with the basic foundation and build.
Pretend with me:
DD + Dot (Fire Type) + item that makes all Fire skills heal for Dot amount + achievement that doubles Fire skill duration. Just turned a DD + Dot into a pretty decent self heal. Then again it is JUST a DD skill...
NO NO NO.. That was NEVER said by SOE and is all your assumption.. This is what happens when the lack of intel is unavailable, people end up taking an inch and running with it to create a mile..
Isn't that what we are doing though? None of your opinions/assumptions are based on fact, same as mine. Yet they did show that Items/Achievements would change skills. While maybe not exactly like my example, not too far into crazy town.
From Video:
Item A (Nature skills considered Physical as well) + Item B (Physical abilities have increased Crit Chance) + Item C (Reduce cooldown of Phys Skills when Crit) = potentially change a slow cool down Nature skill that might not do a lot of dmg into an actual dmg skill worth using.
Won't type out the actual skills as they were a bit long, but it isn't simply Skill 1 = 50 dmg, the end. Each seemed to have various attributes that can be altered multiple ways.
If Warrior 1 has these items it would do more damage with Skill 1 then Warrior B with different items (assuming Crits do more dmg...). Again, these are static classes that you simply stack power. You are supposed to build them to your liking. If you want Skill 1 to do a lot of damage, go that way, if you want it to do base damage + CC, go that way, or whatever.
They have no reason to. What AAA games have you seen that give out full class details pre-Alpha/Alpha or whatever we want to call EQN's current state? They have nothing to prove to you or entice you into playing/paying for something not available any time soon. Heck, they might not have one class complete yet. No clue how it works, but I'm betting if they get to class 23 and see it uses X skill type better, they might go back to class 15 and change it a bit. Why would they give any full even "work in progress" class fully? Only leaves room for more complaining and we have no context how any of it would work regardless.
Well there you go.. TY for admitting that SOE has NOTHING in stone, or even anything to scratched out to sink our teeth into.. As I said above, people are running wild with hype and imagination of "what could be", vs what actually is.. BTW, Since you admit that SOE or any AAA games don't give out details, why do you and others keep telling up that they DO TELL US the info, and we just need to go find it..
Lol, TY for putting words in my mouth. NOTHING is pretty strong word. I don't work for SOE so have no clue what they do or don't have done. As the game is in early development, it is a WORK IN PROGRESS. Show me one AAA game of this genre that gave out facts in stone this early and that never changed. Some players run with hype some with whatever you got going on, same difference.
They do give out info (the video you said you watched). No it might not be the info YOU exactly want, but it is still details about the game. We have a decent idea of how gear/achievements will work for example. Could it change? Of course, but it isn't like they just went "Gear does stuff" the end. To say they haven't shown anything is just silly.
If you've watched every SOE Live panel from 2013/2014, all the videos on youtube, all the twich streams, read all the dev posts on official forums/reddit/twitter, read all the interviews and still think they've given out NOTHING, well I can't disagree with that logic.
Like I have said before, EQN is running down the hype train at full speed and SOE is fueling it.. I"m not just picking on SOE, but all devs that try to BS their product prior to official marketing.. See, legally a company can only say or do limited talking points without getting into advertising problems.. However, if you do vague unoffic blogs and podcast, then you can get away it, since it's not official marketing..
Hype only exists if players allow it. SOE can say they created the bestest game ever!!!! Doesn't mean anything. If players decide to agree with them (especially at this stage), they are fools. Doesn't mean I can't say it looks good so far. We are presented with something and are able to give our opinion. Just as you strongly dislike the majority of what you've seen. We don't really know what the finished product will be. Even then, some will love it, some will hate it, doesn't make it good or bad.
If you choose to discuss/follow the game at this stage, gotta take it for what it is. Not a finished product, without all the facts/details splashed in front of your face. Sadly imagination and assumption have to play a part currently, but as time goes on and little details emerge, it does become more real.
As I've said before, it seems you really dislike some of the fundamental aspects of the game and I'm still confused why you waste your time talking about it. If you'll never enjoy action combat, the art style, multi-classing or whatever you actual don't like, seems kind of like you are complaining or being critical just for the hell of it. Wish there was a game that was more to your liking, but it is what it is.
As I've said before, it seems you really dislike some of the fundamental aspects of the game and I'm still confused why you waste your time talking about it. If you'll never enjoy action combat, the art style, multi-classing or whatever you actual don't like, seems kind of like you are complaining or being critical just for the hell of it. Wish there was a game that was more to your liking, but it is what it is.
Yes, I really really really dislike twitch combat in a MMORPG community.. I find it restrictive in nature to where the role options of combat are very limited.. But for the main reason why I responded to you.. This is FREE ENTERPRISE business and we live in a free economy where customers (aka they public) have the ability to express their likes and dislikes of business products and services.. According to you, the public should just shut up and NEVER say anything.. I"m glad our economy gives us the ability to review products.. Are you telling us you never expressed an opinion on a movie?, a car? a meal? and how you wished it could of been better, etc etc.. Think about it..
I will continue to voice my opinions on this game and any other that I wish to in hopes that changes are made to favor my likes.. The sad thing about movies tho, after you express your dislike for a movie, they can't remake with the changes that the public wants.. Han shot first
PS4 is like the tertiary focus, PC is where the money is at for them with this game.
If sony decide to use AMD 'Mantle" (I hope they do) , it will make EQN easier to port to the PS4 , much easier infact.
The problem is that , initially Sony were supporting nVidia physix , which would be contradicting to using Mantle.
However I hope they ditch Physix, and go with Mantle. This would make the game 10x better , and allow the game to flourish both on the PC , and PS4 (PS4 can support Mantle).
I think this might be one of the reasons the game is taking longer than expected.
True hardware enthusiasts and serious MMO gamers will always choose the PC over a console , anyday and everyday.
If EQN is setting itself up to be the #1 MMO , then it will and must appeal to PC gamers first and foremost , anybody else will and must be an afterthought .
I'm fine with EQN eventually coming to the PS4 , if and only if, it is ported from PC -> Console, and not vise versa. Console ports will always be console ports because of the limited power of a console system.
Think the question was answered with the second post in this thread. From what Nadia posted it seems PC is it's main focus and that it probably be console friendly. Don't think how many controls there are have anything to do with it's focus tbh, not sure what has gotten this into peoples heads. Think the really reason is, "i don't like the idea of less abilities, because it might give people the impression i'm not skilled"
As I've said before, it seems you really dislike some of the fundamental aspects of the game and I'm still confused why you waste your time talking about it. If you'll never enjoy action combat, the art style, multi-classing or whatever you actual don't like, seems kind of like you are complaining or being critical just for the hell of it. Wish there was a game that was more to your liking, but it is what it is.
Yes, I really really really dislike twitch combat in a MMORPG community.. I find it restrictive in nature to where the role options of combat are very limited..
Out of curiosity, what do you define as twitch? Early EQ was one of the slowest games ever (in the genre). Every single pull was a drawn out activity. Which has its moments, but I don't find it to be a case of quality over quantity. Could you give some examples of roles or restrictions that you don't believe are possible in the combat system EQN appears to be going with (we haven't actually seen it fully). Do you consider games like DAoC, WoW, GW2, ESO, WAR to be "twitch" as well, why or why not?
Do you think it is possible to have more active combat along with "better" AI and still have slower combat?
Not sure how much PVP experience you have, but even in EQ, when you are up against an enemy with any form of intelligence, slow pacing doesn't really cut it. On EQ's PVP servers, I didn't just stand there and tab-go down the row. Doesn't have to be Mortal Kombat button mashing, there is a wide range of combat speed and reaction time.
This negative view that pushing buttons quickly, having to move around, or simply being active doesn't make sense to mean beyond it might be too difficult for some. When I play a "twitchy" game, I don't go "OMG I love hitting buttons!" almost universally, it comes with having to think faster and react in ways a slow pace game can't have. Regardless if it is a fantasy mmorpg, MOBA, FTS, space flight sim...
But for the main reason why I responded to you.. This is FREE ENTERPRISE business and we live in a free economy where customers (aka they public) have the ability to express their likes and dislikes of business products and services.. According to you, the public should just shut up and NEVER say anything.. I"m glad our economy gives us the ability to review products.. Are you telling us you never expressed an opinion on a movie?, a car? a meal? and how you wished it could of been better, etc etc.. Think about it..
I don't mean to come off as don't say anything ever that doesn't make you a total fanboi. Simply pointing out that the things you seem to want to make EQN "better" have nothing to do with what they are doing. Beyond scraping the entire project and starting again, not sure how any of your issues could be solved easily without impacting the rest of the work done. A game is a sum of it's parts, hard to change one without a ripple.
This early, I think we are all jumping to conclusions, but a lot of the ground work as been shown and I highly doubt a single person or even however many waste their time on these forums will matter. Now if you started a campaign and brought it to the actual official forums, dev twitter accounts, facebook, or whatever other direct channel, might at least be noticed. They don't seem to visit here often. Reddit more so, but even there is is rare.
Seems you are just talking to the wall (this forum) expecting a result.
If you could accept the action combat as not going anywhere, maybe you could at least make constructive suggestions towards making it friendly to even non action fans, but it sounds like you simply want tab brought back from the coffin SOE already nailed shut. Which would make no sense nor fit into the current design.
I will continue to voice my opinions on this game and any other that I wish to in hopes that changes are made to favor my likes.. The sad thing about movies tho, after you express your dislike for a movie, they can't remake with the changes that the public wants.. Han shot first
Please do continue, few give any actual thoughts beyond "It's the best thing ever or failure", at least you put in some effort. As I said though, your hopes aren't aligned with reality. I make a lot of assumptions, but I've at least accepted EQN for what it is. Not my perfect game, but a step toward what I really want. As time goes on and we actually see more of it in action (not lame demos) my opinion might change for or against features, can't say yet.
Edit: Could you describe all the issues you have with EQN currently or what you'd like to see that hasn't been shown for discussion purposes? Sometimes I get caught up in my own opinions that I'm not even sure what I'm talking about beyond the urge to put my thoughts on the internet.
Secondly, you're equating abilities with depth. I think that's probably one of the worst paradigms that we ever established in MMOs. Personally, I play tank classes exclusively and 90% of my time in combat spent in one hotbar. That'll probably be more, now that they've trimmed abilities. There are so many other ways the create depth. Things like procs, buffs, chaining abilities, combinations, etc. THAT is depth. There is, literally, an infinite number of possibilities. There could be 20 button chains that unleash devastating attacks. There could be 100 button combinations. What do we have right now? We press a button and all of our abilities go on a global cooldown....... Sorry, that's not depth.
I'm hoping that it's good on consoles, because that's where I'd like to play it, but I really want a solid PC game too, plus a single account so I can play on either platform please!!
So you play nothing but tanks. 90% of you abilities are on one hotbar. Does that translate to DPS classes? Healing classes? Oh, you wouldn't know, right? Because you don't play them. Your opinion is great, but it's wrong.
So you play nothing but tanks. 90% of you abilities are on one hotbar. Does that translate to DPS classes? Healing classes? Oh, you wouldn't know, right? Because you don't play them. Your opinion is great, but it's wrong.
I've played the majority of mmorpgs since 1998 and I agree with his view. In almost every game I've played close to if not all classes-roles-builds, etc. Depth/skill or whatever subjective idea is perceived differently by all of us. Simply adding more buttons does not equate to more depth or dictate if a game will function on a PC or console. Your opinion doesn't seem to exist, but feel free to share.
We are just going to have to agree to disagree on preferences.. I personally hate the combat direction that EQN is going.. I find it too homogenized into hybrid DPS classes.. No pure tank, No pure healers, and No pure support.. It's going to play very much like GW2, which in my opinion will lead to zerg style combat. There are many players, myself included that like to play support roles, or reliable range combat (such as ranger).. We know that EQN hasn't show us, or talk to us about all the possibilities that I wish to see in the game when it comes to roles played.. Can I kite like a druid? Can I fear kite like a Necro? Mana battery? Can I be a pure buffer/healer like a Shaman? Can I play an Enchanter and charm mobs for 30 minutes and longer? Mass Mez? Can I FD and single pull mobs? Can I stealth and steal? Will we have an assortment of custom pets like a Mage or Hunter?
All I'm seeing so far in combat is Call of Duty with swords, with an AI that represents PvP.. (only the NPC's don't bunny hop).. LOL.. As for changing a game.. All I can say is one thing.
I remember Smed saying that the game will be on that system at the beginning of the year, but I wasn't expecting it to be seemingly primarily designed with that audience in mind...
Are they still going with 4 abilities on your hot bar at a time? I mean, I get that this is great for a controller, but it seems to lack depth?
I don't hate consoles, but I guess this probably doesn't spell out anything good for deep challenge or complexity for this title.
Focus is PC not PS4.. it seems to be a tent with a lot of recent mmos to have less skills on your hotbar... but saying that having a million slot hot bar does not make a game good or more complex anyway.
This argument is so old. it´s not even funny anymore.
Have you tried FFXIV:ARR on the PS4? It´s one of the most intuitive controller schemes I have seen to date.
It´s fantastic! It takes some time to get used to, but it´s great! I currently play it on both PC and PS4, With full cross play. So same char, same server, one single subfee! Regardless wich platform you play on!
And when it comes to DCUO. The PS4 Version is currently the most popular platform. Outperforming every other.
It plays great and runs incredibly smooth on the PS4.
We are just going to have to agree to disagree on preferences.. I personally hate the combat direction that EQN is going.. I find it too homogenized into hybrid DPS classes.. No pure tank, No pure healers, and No pure support.. It's going to play very much like GW2, which in my opinion will lead to zerg style combat. There are many players, myself included that like to play support roles, or reliable range combat (such as ranger).. We know that EQN hasn't show us, or talk to us about all the possibilities that I wish to see in the game when it comes to roles played.. Can I kite like a druid? Can I fear kite like a Necro? Mana battery? Can I be a pure buffer/healer like a Shaman? Can I play an Enchanter and charm mobs for 30 minutes and longer? Mass Mez? Can I FD and single pull mobs? Can I stealth and steal? Will we have an assortment of custom pets like a Mage or Hunter?
All I'm seeing so far in combat is Call of Duty with swords, with an AI that represents PvP.. (only the NPC's don't bunny hop).. LOL.. As for changing a game.. All I can say is one thing.
NGE
Oh yes I agree on disagreeing. Still interesting to see different points of view and what not.
At this point we have to make some pretty big assumptions of what EQN will or won't be like. I too enjoy playing support, but more so every role and is a big reason I support their approach to multi-classing. If I want to be a healer or dps or cc, having to devote countless hours for another character or even path on one is horrible to me. So it is a big reason I won't mind less strict or black/white design for classes/roles.
With that said, all your ???? as to what will classes be able to do is uncertain. I'm doubting it will be worthwhile to be "only" a buff/heal bot or one dimensional character, but that doesn't mean classes or more so builds can't still serve the function. Original EQ had 8 buttons on a bar, usually didn't even need most in combat. Even with being able to swap them out, beyond a lot of the fluff/buff stuff, not many classes "needed" a lot of skills to serve their role. You seem to believe that EQN classes will just be copies with different damage types, but I see nothing to go with that.
They've already confirmed Necros will be a class. I'm going to go way out on a limb and guess that they won't have 12 generic DPS skills. Could one be Fear? Yes. Could it be used to kite? Why not. They've shown concept models of "Monks" along with having a novella about them. I would find it crazy to think that they wouldn't have FD. Same goes for many of the iconic skills or roles we think of. I can't find the link, but I believe they confirmed Magicians type pets returning as well.
Will we see a need to CC for 30 min? I really hope not. This is just a matter of priorities shifting and people don't have 5 hours to play every day. Would still love content that requires long drawn out mechanics, but not the standard.
All the combat you've seen so far is Landmark which is not EQN (might want to check more recent vids btw, they toned it down) and pre-recorded tech demos. We have yet to see real combat.
As you have pointed out, they haven't shown off a completed class yet. A handful of skills on a couple classes isn't a very good sample to judge 40+ classes with ~500 skills.
If you want dumb AI that is able to be CC for 30min, mechanics that require and allow roles to consist of selecting an ally and hitting heal over and over without much else, then ya I get you won't like EQN (at least I hope it doesn't go that route).
Personally, I like to actually play the game and be in the action, sitting 100 yards away spamming DPS skill 1 on a huge boss that doesn't move because it is being taunt spammed is not exciting anymore. At the same time, I don't want combat where I need to drink 5 red bulls and do finger exercises either.
SOE hopefully knows what they are doing and realize that not everyone wants or can handle the early Landmark combat style. But as a fantasy game, I'd hope that every role/class has a purpose beyond hitting 1 button over and over and standing still like a rock. I've never read a book or seen a movie where characters act anything like mmorpgs. Heck even in promo/cinematic videos for games, you don't see people standing around mindlessly hitting buttons. They are active in combat. Trinity type combat is very unrealistic and exists due to tech/imagination limitations.
As for NGE you were for it?
It seems you were a fan of WoW and where Blizzard took the genre after EQ started it. To me, I see EQN as doing something similar. Taking what has worked and improving what hasn't. We need to move forward. There seems to be a huge following of more active playing games. Have you tried games like SMITE and Tera and if so what was your take on the combat? How about Skyrim and ESO?
I remember Smed saying that the game will be on that system at the beginning of the year, but I wasn't expecting it to be seemingly primarily designed with that audience in mind...
Are they still going with 4 abilities on your hot bar at a time? I mean, I get that this is great for a controller, but it seems to lack depth?
I don't hate consoles, but I guess this probably doesn't spell out anything good for deep challenge or complexity for this title.
I am sorry to break it down to you my friend. But your topic does not make any sense..and is so far from reality as one can think. EQ or SOE have never been focusing on the console platform..yes we had everquest adventures..but EQN has never been associated with consoles nor will it ever be...!
This topic is like watching news..it never is the same news as in the headlines.!
We are just going to have to agree to disagree on preferences.. I personally hate the combat direction that EQN is going.. I find it too homogenized into hybrid DPS classes.. No pure tank, No pure healers, and No pure support.. It's going to play very much like GW2, which in my opinion will lead to zerg style combat. There are many players, myself included that like to play support roles, or reliable range combat (such as ranger).. We know that EQN hasn't show us, or talk to us about all the possibilities that I wish to see in the game when it comes to roles played.. Can I kite like a druid? Can I fear kite like a Necro? Mana battery? Can I be a pure buffer/healer like a Shaman? Can I play an Enchanter and charm mobs for 30 minutes and longer? Mass Mez? Can I FD and single pull mobs? Can I stealth and steal? Will we have an assortment of custom pets like a Mage or Hunter?
All I'm seeing so far in combat is Call of Duty with swords, with an AI that represents PvP.. (only the NPC's don't bunny hop).. LOL.. As for changing a game.. All I can say is one thing.
NGE
Oh yes I agree on disagreeing. Still interesting to see different points of view and what not.
At this point we have to make some pretty big assumptions of what EQN will or won't be like. I too enjoy playing support, but more so every role and is a big reason I support their approach to multi-classing. If I want to be a healer or dps or cc, having to devote countless hours for another character or even path on one is horrible to me. So it is a big reason I won't mind less strict or black/white design for classes/roles.
But, that is exactly what you're going to get.. You mention multi-class as if you can do everything at anytime, and that will NOT be the case in EQN.. True multi-classing means I can play the role of many simultaneously at the same time.. In EQN I can not be a Warrior, a Cleric and a Rogue at the same time.. I HAVE to choose which one to be, and the RESTRICTED 4 weapon slots that come with it.. Sure I have the freedom to switch from one to another, but in a way very much like Rift does.. As for the 4 class swappable skills, I'm sure they are nothing to write home about, but we'll see..
Original EQ had 8 buttons on a bar, usually didn't even need most in combat. Even with being able to swap them out, beyond a lot of the fluff/buff stuff, not many classes "needed" a lot of skills to serve their role. You seem to believe that EQN classes will just be copies with different damage types, but I see nothing to go with that.
As a druid in EQ, I did need to use all 8 buttons when grouping.. No doubt about that, especially when going into some of the nasty areas.. Invis, See Invis, Lev, Damage Shield, Heal, SoW, Shield/Hp buff, Snare, Root, Evac.. There is 10 right there.. Swapping out my 8 spell slots, was common..
They've already confirmed Necros will be a class. I'm going to go way out on a limb and guess that they won't have 12 generic DPS skills. Could one be Fear? Yes. Could it be used to kite? Why not. They've shown concept models of "Monks" along with having a novella about them. I would find it crazy to think that they wouldn't have FD. Same goes for many of the iconic skills or roles we think of. I can't find the link, but I believe they confirmed Magicians type pets returning as well.
Big assumptions on your part there.. Just cause you call it a Necro, doesn't mean it plays like one.. Will it have leaching? DMF? Dots? (WHICH is a huge thing to me, because Dotting is truly only valuable if you have slow combat) Using a DoT in a 5 second fight is useless.. Just ask my Warlock in WoW when I was grouped.. Mobs were dead before I could cast my second DoT.. Same with kiting.. Kiting can only be done if mobs are NOT on a leash.. Can I tag and mob and run him all over the zone, or will he reset like ALL mobs do today? Trains? choo choo..
Will we see a need to CC for 30 min? I really hope not. This is just a matter of priorities shifting and people don't have 5 hours to play every day. Would still love content that requires long drawn out mechanics, but not the standard.
Who said anything about CC for 30 minutes? I said charming, which should not be confused with CC.. Charming is creating a temporary "pet" that you can control.. See how you ran with something you misread or understood.. Be very careful how and what words are used..
All the combat you've seen so far is Landmark which is not EQN (might want to check more recent vids btw, they toned it down) and pre-recorded tech demos. We have yet to see real combat.
As you have pointed out, they haven't shown off a completed class yet. A handful of skills on a couple classes isn't a very good sample to judge 40+ classes with ~500 skills.
Let me ask you something.. REMOVE all their "Origins, and damage Type" from their skills/spells and what do you think you have left? Redressing the same skill or spell, does not make it original or unique.. For instance: A FROST damage skill isn't any different then a Fire, Shadow, Wind, or Water, and Earth unless it has something that makes it different such as "SLOW" the target effected.. Fire would have to have a meaningful DoT attached to it.. Shadow maybe having life leaching? and Wind knockdown? or Earth stun? etc etc.. We don't know yet..
Personally, I like to actually play the game and be in the action, sitting 100 yards away spamming DPS skill 1 on a huge boss that doesn't move because it is being taunt spammed is not exciting anymore. At the same time, I don't want combat where I need to drink 5 red bulls and do finger exercises either.
Hear is the phone number to Red Bull, I think you'll need it.. (1-888-OH-SHIT).. lol I think the combat is going to be very much like GW2 and Rift.. Combat will be quick and zergy, and many roles and skills will not be required..
SOE hopefully knows what they are doing and realize that not everyone wants or can handle the early Landmark combat style. But as a fantasy game, I'd hope that every role/class has a purpose beyond hitting 1 button over and over and standing still like a rock. I've never read a book or seen a movie where characters act anything like mmorpgs. Heck even in promo/cinematic videos for games, you don't see people standing around mindlessly hitting buttons. They are active in combat. Trinity type combat is very unrealistic and exists due to tech/imagination limitations.
Does it really matter if you press a few buttons in a static position, or press the same buttons while bouncing around like a bunny on drugs? Archers typically are not required to dance around to use their bow.. Same with a range mage that likes to cast a 3 second damage spell.. That is the whole purpose of having a pet class as well.. Let my pet hold the target's attention, while I can concentrate on one or multi targets.. Everyone talks about standing in one spot bashing ONE button.. NAME ME ONE RAID BOSS IN WOW that you can do that with? Just one..
As for NGE you were for it?
It seems you were a fan of WoW and where Blizzard took the genre after EQ started it. To me, I see EQN as doing something similar. Taking what has worked and improving what hasn't. We need to move forward. There seems to be a huge following of more active playing games. Have you tried games like SMITE and Tera and if so what was your take on the combat? How about Skyrim and ESO?
You can NOT get anymore active and twitchy then Call of Duty.. I own that game and play it from time to time.. However, I would NEVER want that style of combat in a role playing MMO.. Games like CoD are all about dps.. GW2 isn't much better.. GW2 is about 80% dps, and 20% other, to appease the role playing genre..
Secondary abilities have one of four categories associated with them (this is separate from damage source/type). Each class' set of four secondary abilities can have a different combination of categories so the swapping is not completely free form.
So it is similar to EQ in how there was a limited amount of active abilities but the option to swap out other abilities when needed. In this case however the pool to swap from seems larger but the total customization seems less. I would argue that in most cases while playing EQ one did not swap out every skill however, just the few they needed for a situation. This was true in the case of the Paladin anyhow.
I remember Smed saying that the game will be on that system at the beginning of the year, but I wasn't expecting it to be seemingly primarily designed with that audience in mind...
Are they still going with 4 abilities on your hot bar at a time? I mean, I get that this is great for a controller, but it seems to lack depth?
I don't hate consoles, but I guess this probably doesn't spell out anything good for deep challenge or complexity for this title.
I am sorry to break it down to you my friend. But your topic does not make any sense..and is so far from reality as one can think.
Oh, really? Enlighten us...
EQ or SOE have never been focusing on the console platform..yes we had everquest adventures..but EQN has never been associated with consoles nor will it ever be...!
Oh, ok, so you haven't heard of DCUO?
You do know that Smed has confirmed this for the PS4 already?
Can you tell me your source, because you speak like you have inside connections for rock hard information as to how SOE are thinking right now.
This topic is like watching news..it never is the same news as in the headlines.!
But, that is exactly what you're going to get.. You mention multi-class as if you can do everything at anytime, and that will NOT be the case in EQN.. True multi-classing means I can play the role of many simultaneously at the same time.. In EQN I can not be a Warrior, a Cleric and a Rogue at the same time.. I HAVE to choose which one to be, and the RESTRICTED 4 weapon slots that come with it.. Sure I have the freedom to switch from one to another, but in a way very much like Rift does.. As for the 4 class swappable skills, I'm sure they are nothing to write home about, but we'll see..
Those are YOUR definitions of what mutli-classing is or whatever. I'm very glad they aren't going with a fully open skill system where you can make god mode builds or GW2 like classes that can dps, cc, heal, rez, etc. To me they picked balance and are holding on to iconic roles/classes while allowing some freedom to build upon them. There is nothing wrong with choosing. I like having to use my brain, by creating something, learning it, and utilizing it at the right time. Compared to be everything at once or 50 skills on the screen classes of most games. Not sure why you seeing having to choose what to play at any given time to be a negative. And again with the 4 slots....there are 12.
As a druid in EQ, I did need to use all 8 buttons when grouping.. No doubt about that, especially when going into some of the nasty areas.. Invis, See Invis, Lev, Damage Shield, Heal, SoW, Shield/Hp buff, Snare, Root, Evac.. There is 10 right there.. Swapping out my 8 spell slots, was common..
How many of those were long term buffs, fairly situation, or basically not needed at hands reach constantly? Not saying classes didn't need to use their skills and 1111111 and auto attack were good enough, but it was still a small number compared to EQ today and post WoW games.
Maybe this is where grouping and socializing come in. Not sure on your stance towards making a game solo centered, but many want a return to playing together to be a thing. Maybe your 12 skills aren't enough and you need multiple players with multiple builds. This is where multi-classing and working together comes in.
In EQ I had different set ups for different encounters. Very similar concept to having different builds/classes from my view. Instead of a "Druid" having access to 100 different skills, you have multiple "Druid-like" classes sharing them. Each with different flair and uniqueness.
Big assumptions on your part there.. Just cause you call it a Necro, doesn't mean it plays like one.. Will it have leaching? DMF? Dots? (WHICH is a huge thing to me, because Dotting is truly only valuable if you have slow combat) Using a DoT in a 5 second fight is useless.. Just ask my Warlock in WoW when I was grouped.. Mobs were dead before I could cast my second DoT.. Same with kiting.. Kiting can only be done if mobs are NOT on a leash.. Can I tag and mob and run him all over the zone, or will he reset like ALL mobs do today? Trains? choo choo..
Well again, we are making assumptions. You are correct on names not meaning a lot. But as this is an EQ game and they have already confirmed Necros having pets, I'd be highly surprised if they didn't have leaching/fear skills. Maybe not 100% like you remember, but in the same wheelhouse. DOTs work in various systems. Several GW2 classes/builds were DOT based and combat is fast. All depends on how combat is designed to begin with.
As for Kiting, while it is an effective method of play and challenging sometimes, I doubt it is the ideal approach that devs go for. Usually it is used to allow a player to take on content not intended for them, which to me is almost an exploit in some cases. With the supposed "smarter" AI, I'm doubting it will be like EQ's kiting if it does exist, because it is pretty stupid for a mob to allow itself to be kited. But why would a player "need" to kite? What is the end goal, beyond liking to drag a mob across a zone for some reason.
Who said anything about CC for 30 minutes? I said charming, which should not be confused with CC.. Charming is creating a temporary "pet" that you can control.. See how you ran with something you misread or understood.. Be very careful how and what words are used..
Ah, too many games too many words. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to make a pet out of a mob. Pets confirmed. No reason that a skill couldn't do exactly what you suggest. Would actually be better then having Snake Pet, Bear Pet, Rock Pet, etc. Simple "Charm Nature Creature" skill for Shaman or "Charm Elemental" for Magicians. Let players decide what they will have as a sidekick. Not sure why you think EQN's system isn't capable of such easy mechanics.
Let me ask you something.. REMOVE all their "Origins, and damage Type" from their skills/spells and what do you think you have left? Redressing the same skill or spell, does not make it original or unique.. For instance: A FROST damage skill isn't any different then a Fire, Shadow, Wind, or Water, and Earth unless it has something that makes it different such as "SLOW" the target effected.. Fire would have to have a meaningful DoT attached to it.. Shadow maybe having life leaching? and Wind knockdown? or Earth stun? etc etc.. We don't know yet..
Something like this (from SOE Live)?
Water: Crowd Control, Defense.
Fire: Instant, Burning, Critical Strike.
Affliction: DOTs, Drains, Debuffs.
So a Warrior and Cleric might share Fire skills, but how they function would be different because Warrior are Martial and Cleric are Divine. Again, from their limited examples, I've yet to see what you are suggesting or even how you are coming to that conclusion.
If you remove the origin/damage type, would be left with much. Could you give me an example of a game/skills that are more of what you want to see? EQ redressed damage skills, so not sure what you are talking about.
Hear is the phone number to Red Bull, I think you'll need it.. (1-888-OH-SHIT).. lol I think the combat is going to be very much like GW2 and Rift.. Combat will be quick and zergy, and many roles and skills will not be required..
GW2 combat was quick, but it also lacked roles nor any need for team work beyond numbers/zerg. As it is a PVP game, it makes sense to some degree even though it was designed poorly, I think.
EQN devs have said even when asked directly by fans, that roles, strat, using the thing in your head will be needed in EQN. They want it to be challenging, not a faceroll DPS zerg fest.
Again, this hugely depends on Storybricks and the combat design, but if mobs don't stand there and aren't stupid enough to be kited around the map, simply spamming DPS skills might not be enough.
Not sure if you played much in GW2's arena or in organized group PVP in WvWvW, but there was a huge divide between the zerg and organized teams, as in all games. Despite being able to hit a bunch of keys and make a bunch of pretty effects by everyone.
Does it really matter if you press a few buttons in a static position, or press the same buttons while bouncing around like a bunny on drugs? Archers typically are not required to dance around to use their bow.. Same with a range mage that likes to cast a 3 second damage spell.. That is the whole purpose of having a pet class as well.. Let my pet hold the target's attention, while I can concentrate on one or multi targets.. Everyone talks about standing in one spot bashing ONE button.. NAME ME ONE RAID BOSS IN WOW that you can do that with? Just one..
It does matter to some apparently (see FPS, MOBA, PVP and more active combat in mmorpgs, etc.). I personally prefer having to use terrain, positioning, aim, along with skills instead of select target, fire away. Neither is better though, simply different designs. Same reason I don't like playing sniper in FPS. I don't like to stand still waiting for an easy kill/miss, very boring. As you said though, does it matter? If not, why wouldn't you be able to enjoy action combat just as much?
If a mob casts a wall of ice, you are just going to stand there until it is gone? Why not go through it, around it, over/under it? So many more possibilities with a focus on movement instead of massive UI or limited mobility. Really don't think most games in the past 15 years are that far away from turn based combat.
Ragnaros? Frost Mage casting Frost Bolt if I remember correctly. Sure I probably needed a shield up and had to make food/water beforehand, but a huge part of it was just 11111. As were most vanilla bosses (only played a bit into TBC). Could you literally stand in one spot? Probably not as they are bosses and AOE damage is usually a mechanic since the mob just stands there for the most part. But not a huge amount of dynamic action happening. But then again, we are talking in extremes right? Like having to move around equates to twitchy ADD bunny hopping.
Hopefully an archer/mage with a static/slow cast would also have trade offs to compensate, each style should have pros/cons. Slow casting, big hits, low defense for example. I'll agree that most pet classes are basically 1.5+ people and cheap, but hey we love them And typically the trinity compensates for archers standing around.
If you shoot something and it runs at you, good luck standing there shooting it in the face. Now if you have a friend keeping them at bay, no need to bunny hop around. You seem to think players HAVE to run around like a headless chicken 24/7, which is not the case. Solo? Maybe. Grouped? Probably not so much.
You can NOT get anymore active and twitchy then Call of Duty.. I own that game and play it from time to time.. However, I would NEVER want that style of combat in a role playing MMO.. Games like CoD are all about dps.. GW2 isn't much better.. GW2 is about 80% dps, and 20% other, to appease the role playing genre..
You are right COD is a very active game. Does EQN have anything to do with CODs mechanics? Will you hold down a trigger and spray while running around? Will enemies consist of people shooting from away or close up with guns? I too would hate to see a similar setup for a fantasy mmorpg.
SMITE on the other hand is a VERY active game as well, yet still has skills, classes, items, teamwork, yadda yadda. Huge divide again between good and bad players (I'm bad btw).
Not sure what GW2 you played, but positioning and strat (thinking 1, 2, 3 seconds ahead) were pretty key in PVP. PVE, ya not so much, but not sure if I need to keep going on about how poor a PVE game it is.
Bottom line is we all like what we like and some games aren't designed for us. EQN appears to be such a game for you. While I'm betting you'll come around over the next year or so, maybe after release, but it being F2P and one of the few AAA fantasy games coming, will be hard to resist
I can't played COD/BF4 or single player games or a number of other things. Yet I love TF2 and played the hell out of CS. Now I'm playing Diablo 3 with my wife on console. Times change, people change, it's life. I'm sure you'll continue to be upset with SOE's design choices, but as I've said previously, it doesn't matter. What they are creating will most likely be successful enough for them to not need to restart as overall, the majority of it is already very popular in different games/genres.
In the end, these are just games and are meant to be fun. If they aren't fun or something you like, seems like self punishment to keep going. As soon as EQ, DAoC, WAR, WoW, Aion, GW2... were no longer fun do to changes or burn out on the same thing, I left. Easy. Never would I follow or play a game I didn't at least like the design.
If they use the triggers as multipliers and map actions to the d-pad as well as the primary buttons you could have 16 hotkeys at once. Or if they go the FFXIV route you can have 8 at a time with a quick swap available.
Originally posted by skeaser If they use the triggers as multipliers and map actions to the d-pad as well as the primary buttons you could have 16 hotkeys at once. Or if they go the FFXIV route you can have 8 at a time with a quick swap available.
THIS,
Also TERA has 3 modifiers (L2, R2, L2+R2) so you could have up 24 keys if i remember correctly. But FFXIV did it much better with a full controller UI even with a few less buttons. So yupp, it can totally be done. Whoever says "controllers with limited buttons" is just a hater. I dont even use that many buttons on my keyboard when playing mmorpgs.
EDIT: and i have ESO with Xpadder. I use 3 modifiers there as well and have no issues with all the skills and options mapped to xpadder.
Comments
Yup this exactly, people spouting limited quickbar slots is better gameplay are controller fans or people with the console mentality.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
True, I played EQ with a Dreamcast controller back in 99...a kb/m setup was a total waste for such a twitch based game.
I think you made good points. See what I mean about how the toolbars and skills play out as described though? You can swap out the sets (which is nice) but are those four (W1a W1b W1c W1d) static within the set? I bet they will be upgradeable by tier, but even if there was wild options and variety, you are talking about 12 choices total for a weapon set through a career.
I think those animations will be set for class: Warrior Spear 1-4, Warrior Club/shield 1-4, and buttons 5-8 will be generic animations as you said, or maybe race-based.
This whole setup just reeks of a mistake though. I hope they change their mind on some of it, especially the mouselook takeover that occurs when combat starts.
Like I have said before, EQN is running down the hype train at full speed and SOE is fueling it.. I"m not just picking on SOE, but all devs that try to BS their product prior to official marketing.. See, legally a company can only say or do limited talking points without getting into advertising problems.. However, if you do vague unoffic blogs and podcast, then you can get away it, since it's not official marketing..
Yes, I really really really dislike twitch combat in a MMORPG community.. I find it restrictive in nature to where the role options of combat are very limited.. But for the main reason why I responded to you.. This is FREE ENTERPRISE business and we live in a free economy where customers (aka they public) have the ability to express their likes and dislikes of business products and services.. According to you, the public should just shut up and NEVER say anything.. I"m glad our economy gives us the ability to review products.. Are you telling us you never expressed an opinion on a movie?, a car? a meal? and how you wished it could of been better, etc etc.. Think about it..
I will continue to voice my opinions on this game and any other that I wish to in hopes that changes are made to favor my likes.. The sad thing about movies tho, after you express your dislike for a movie, they can't remake with the changes that the public wants.. Han shot first
EQN is primary focus is the PC.
PS4 is like the tertiary focus, PC is where the money is at for them with this game.
If sony decide to use AMD 'Mantle" (I hope they do) , it will make EQN easier to port to the PS4 , much easier infact.
The problem is that , initially Sony were supporting nVidia physix , which would be contradicting to using Mantle.
However I hope they ditch Physix, and go with Mantle. This would make the game 10x better , and allow the game to flourish both on the PC , and PS4 (PS4 can support Mantle).
I think this might be one of the reasons the game is taking longer than expected.
From what I see, the PC is EQN's design bed, mainly because of Landmark, but the design focus is for the PS4.
I don't think any dev would tell you that the money is at the PC over the console, if they can break the console.
True hardware enthusiasts and serious MMO gamers will always choose the PC over a console , anyday and everyday.
If EQN is setting itself up to be the #1 MMO , then it will and must appeal to PC gamers first and foremost , anybody else will and must be an afterthought .
I'm fine with EQN eventually coming to the PS4 , if and only if, it is ported from PC -> Console, and not vise versa. Console ports will always be console ports because of the limited power of a console system.
Think the question was answered with the second post in this thread. From what Nadia posted it seems PC is it's main focus and that it probably be console friendly. Don't think how many controls there are have anything to do with it's focus tbh, not sure what has gotten this into peoples heads. Think the really reason is, "i don't like the idea of less abilities, because it might give people the impression i'm not skilled"
Edit: Could you describe all the issues you have with EQN currently or what you'd like to see that hasn't been shown for discussion purposes? Sometimes I get caught up in my own opinions that I'm not even sure what I'm talking about beyond the urge to put my thoughts on the internet.
So you play nothing but tanks. 90% of you abilities are on one hotbar. Does that translate to DPS classes? Healing classes? Oh, you wouldn't know, right? Because you don't play them. Your opinion is great, but it's wrong.
I've played the majority of mmorpgs since 1998 and I agree with his view. In almost every game I've played close to if not all classes-roles-builds, etc. Depth/skill or whatever subjective idea is perceived differently by all of us. Simply adding more buttons does not equate to more depth or dictate if a game will function on a PC or console. Your opinion doesn't seem to exist, but feel free to share.
Al Al Al..
We are just going to have to agree to disagree on preferences.. I personally hate the combat direction that EQN is going.. I find it too homogenized into hybrid DPS classes.. No pure tank, No pure healers, and No pure support.. It's going to play very much like GW2, which in my opinion will lead to zerg style combat. There are many players, myself included that like to play support roles, or reliable range combat (such as ranger).. We know that EQN hasn't show us, or talk to us about all the possibilities that I wish to see in the game when it comes to roles played.. Can I kite like a druid? Can I fear kite like a Necro? Mana battery? Can I be a pure buffer/healer like a Shaman? Can I play an Enchanter and charm mobs for 30 minutes and longer? Mass Mez? Can I FD and single pull mobs? Can I stealth and steal? Will we have an assortment of custom pets like a Mage or Hunter?
All I'm seeing so far in combat is Call of Duty with swords, with an AI that represents PvP.. (only the NPC's don't bunny hop).. LOL.. As for changing a game.. All I can say is one thing.
NGE
This argument is so old. it´s not even funny anymore.
Have you tried FFXIV:ARR on the PS4? It´s one of the most intuitive controller schemes I have seen to date.
It´s fantastic! It takes some time to get used to, but it´s great! I currently play it on both PC and PS4, With full cross play. So same char, same server, one single subfee! Regardless wich platform you play on!
And when it comes to DCUO. The PS4 Version is currently the most popular platform. Outperforming every other.
It plays great and runs incredibly smooth on the PS4.
Oh yes I agree on disagreeing. Still interesting to see different points of view and what not.
At this point we have to make some pretty big assumptions of what EQN will or won't be like. I too enjoy playing support, but more so every role and is a big reason I support their approach to multi-classing. If I want to be a healer or dps or cc, having to devote countless hours for another character or even path on one is horrible to me. So it is a big reason I won't mind less strict or black/white design for classes/roles.
With that said, all your ???? as to what will classes be able to do is uncertain. I'm doubting it will be worthwhile to be "only" a buff/heal bot or one dimensional character, but that doesn't mean classes or more so builds can't still serve the function. Original EQ had 8 buttons on a bar, usually didn't even need most in combat. Even with being able to swap them out, beyond a lot of the fluff/buff stuff, not many classes "needed" a lot of skills to serve their role. You seem to believe that EQN classes will just be copies with different damage types, but I see nothing to go with that.
They've already confirmed Necros will be a class. I'm going to go way out on a limb and guess that they won't have 12 generic DPS skills. Could one be Fear? Yes. Could it be used to kite? Why not. They've shown concept models of "Monks" along with having a novella about them. I would find it crazy to think that they wouldn't have FD. Same goes for many of the iconic skills or roles we think of. I can't find the link, but I believe they confirmed Magicians type pets returning as well.
Will we see a need to CC for 30 min? I really hope not. This is just a matter of priorities shifting and people don't have 5 hours to play every day. Would still love content that requires long drawn out mechanics, but not the standard.
All the combat you've seen so far is Landmark which is not EQN (might want to check more recent vids btw, they toned it down) and pre-recorded tech demos. We have yet to see real combat.
As you have pointed out, they haven't shown off a completed class yet. A handful of skills on a couple classes isn't a very good sample to judge 40+ classes with ~500 skills.
If you want dumb AI that is able to be CC for 30min, mechanics that require and allow roles to consist of selecting an ally and hitting heal over and over without much else, then ya I get you won't like EQN (at least I hope it doesn't go that route).
Personally, I like to actually play the game and be in the action, sitting 100 yards away spamming DPS skill 1 on a huge boss that doesn't move because it is being taunt spammed is not exciting anymore. At the same time, I don't want combat where I need to drink 5 red bulls and do finger exercises either.
SOE hopefully knows what they are doing and realize that not everyone wants or can handle the early Landmark combat style. But as a fantasy game, I'd hope that every role/class has a purpose beyond hitting 1 button over and over and standing still like a rock. I've never read a book or seen a movie where characters act anything like mmorpgs. Heck even in promo/cinematic videos for games, you don't see people standing around mindlessly hitting buttons. They are active in combat. Trinity type combat is very unrealistic and exists due to tech/imagination limitations.
As for NGE you were for it?
It seems you were a fan of WoW and where Blizzard took the genre after EQ started it. To me, I see EQN as doing something similar. Taking what has worked and improving what hasn't. We need to move forward. There seems to be a huge following of more active playing games. Have you tried games like SMITE and Tera and if so what was your take on the combat? How about Skyrim and ESO?
I am sorry to break it down to you my friend. But your topic does not make any sense..and is so far from reality as one can think. EQ or SOE have never been focusing on the console platform..yes we had everquest adventures..but EQN has never been associated with consoles nor will it ever be...!
This topic is like watching news..it never is the same news as in the headlines.!
no disrespect!
my 2 cents!
mmorpg junkie since 1999
But, that is exactly what you're going to get.. You mention multi-class as if you can do everything at anytime, and that will NOT be the case in EQN.. True multi-classing means I can play the role of many simultaneously at the same time.. In EQN I can not be a Warrior, a Cleric and a Rogue at the same time.. I HAVE to choose which one to be, and the RESTRICTED 4 weapon slots that come with it.. Sure I have the freedom to switch from one to another, but in a way very much like Rift does.. As for the 4 class swappable skills, I'm sure they are nothing to write home about, but we'll see..
As a druid in EQ, I did need to use all 8 buttons when grouping.. No doubt about that, especially when going into some of the nasty areas.. Invis, See Invis, Lev, Damage Shield, Heal, SoW, Shield/Hp buff, Snare, Root, Evac.. There is 10 right there.. Swapping out my 8 spell slots, was common..
Big assumptions on your part there.. Just cause you call it a Necro, doesn't mean it plays like one.. Will it have leaching? DMF? Dots? (WHICH is a huge thing to me, because Dotting is truly only valuable if you have slow combat) Using a DoT in a 5 second fight is useless.. Just ask my Warlock in WoW when I was grouped.. Mobs were dead before I could cast my second DoT.. Same with kiting.. Kiting can only be done if mobs are NOT on a leash.. Can I tag and mob and run him all over the zone, or will he reset like ALL mobs do today? Trains? choo choo..
Who said anything about CC for 30 minutes? I said charming, which should not be confused with CC.. Charming is creating a temporary "pet" that you can control.. See how you ran with something you misread or understood.. Be very careful how and what words are used..
Let me ask you something.. REMOVE all their "Origins, and damage Type" from their skills/spells and what do you think you have left? Redressing the same skill or spell, does not make it original or unique.. For instance: A FROST damage skill isn't any different then a Fire, Shadow, Wind, or Water, and Earth unless it has something that makes it different such as "SLOW" the target effected.. Fire would have to have a meaningful DoT attached to it.. Shadow maybe having life leaching? and Wind knockdown? or Earth stun? etc etc.. We don't know yet..
Hear is the phone number to Red Bull, I think you'll need it.. (1-888-OH-SHIT).. lol I think the combat is going to be very much like GW2 and Rift.. Combat will be quick and zergy, and many roles and skills will not be required..
Does it really matter if you press a few buttons in a static position, or press the same buttons while bouncing around like a bunny on drugs? Archers typically are not required to dance around to use their bow.. Same with a range mage that likes to cast a 3 second damage spell.. That is the whole purpose of having a pet class as well.. Let my pet hold the target's attention, while I can concentrate on one or multi targets.. Everyone talks about standing in one spot bashing ONE button.. NAME ME ONE RAID BOSS IN WOW that you can do that with? Just one..
You can NOT get anymore active and twitchy then Call of Duty.. I own that game and play it from time to time.. However, I would NEVER want that style of combat in a role playing MMO.. Games like CoD are all about dps.. GW2 isn't much better.. GW2 is about 80% dps, and 20% other, to appease the role playing genre..
12 abilities will be available at one time.
Bottom line is we all like what we like and some games aren't designed for us. EQN appears to be such a game for you. While I'm betting you'll come around over the next year or so, maybe after release, but it being F2P and one of the few AAA fantasy games coming, will be hard to resist
I can't played COD/BF4 or single player games or a number of other things. Yet I love TF2 and played the hell out of CS. Now I'm playing Diablo 3 with my wife on console. Times change, people change, it's life. I'm sure you'll continue to be upset with SOE's design choices, but as I've said previously, it doesn't matter. What they are creating will most likely be successful enough for them to not need to restart as overall, the majority of it is already very popular in different games/genres.
In the end, these are just games and are meant to be fun. If they aren't fun or something you like, seems like self punishment to keep going. As soon as EQ, DAoC, WAR, WoW, Aion, GW2... were no longer fun do to changes or burn out on the same thing, I left. Easy. Never would I follow or play a game I didn't at least like the design.
THIS,
Also TERA has 3 modifiers (L2, R2, L2+R2) so you could have up 24 keys if i remember correctly. But FFXIV did it much better with a full controller UI even with a few less buttons. So yupp, it can totally be done. Whoever says "controllers with limited buttons" is just a hater. I dont even use that many buttons on my keyboard when playing mmorpgs.
EDIT: and i have ESO with Xpadder. I use 3 modifiers there as well and have no issues with all the skills and options mapped to xpadder.