Originally posted by Jorev "long term dominance", laughable. Many people leave EQ2 because of boredom and frustration.
I think you might need a lesson or two in business development. From what I have seen the model used for the EQ2 roll out is a very solid one. Take the bias hat off for a sec and think about it. Have you ever seen a platform flex in the ways that EQ2 has?
The spent $30M for a customer base of 250K and dropping. If they're platform is "flexing", it's because they totally "screwed the pooch" on the design and have to rework everything just to remain afloat.
Did you catch on to the fact that they are taking the time to reinvent the soon to be old world content so that it does not become lost space? Have you see the marketing ploys? Those hideous marketing ploys
They're reinventing because of errors and misconceptions in their original design. Whatever marketing ploys they are using, do not seem to be working. I suppose the fact that the game sells for $19.99 at Fry's is a marketing ploy. Eh?
Point being this is Sony they are not idiots.
Yes they are.
Yes they will ignore you and see just how much they can squeeze out of you BECAUSE THEY CAN.
They lost me and quite a few others months ago. They're just squeezing the few who choose to remain in their flawed game.
Do you not think that they have enough money to fund a long term experiment in consumer manipulation?
I don't think upper Sony management will continue this wastage. If the new expansion doesn't bring the game back up, I wonder if we could see it close down in a year or two.
This is business and as far as business goes Sony has the competition beat hands down.
No it doesn't. The competition is WOW with 1.5M subscribers and growing (they just entered the Chinese market). EQ2 is, maybe, 250K subscribers and dropping.
As a by product you I get to play the most adoptive and detail oriented game on the market.
Originally posted by firemagic I sincerely hope you're right. It's a lack of strong competition that's allowed Blizzard to become apathetic and let several pressing issues negatively affect WoW (eg. slow patch cycle, barely any content updates, condescending attitude to the community/limited communication, lousy PvP system...). Maybe if people start leaving in droves they'll pull their collective thumb out of their ass and do something.
Originally posted by Rekindle is that why WoW just offered a Free expansion and is selling for still around ~50 bones and EQ is a good 20 bucks cheaper? SOE got caught with their pants down hard , hard core and have been cloning WoW ever since.
Name an ORIGINAL idea that WoW has introduced to the MMORPG community. Plus this "free" expansion LOL, what free expansion?! Oh the slow as hell content patches are now considered expansions now by the WoW players.
Funny thing all "free" expansions WoW is coming out with was stuff that was supposed to be in the game when it went live 7 months ago lol.
Plus where's all the high end content we were promised? The Devs told us, "Yes don't worry about the fast pace in leveling because the real game will start at the high end." Well, if they meant farming a few high end instances 100s of times and then 6+ months later offer us Gank-fest 05 (honor system/battlegrounds) then they really fooled us all.
I woke up from the lies that Blizzard told us, will you?
What type of "auction system" did EQ 2 have when it first came out? What type of in game message system did EQ2 have when it first came out?
If the MMOCharts guy is at all accurate, I don't see any reason to "defend" the orginiality of WoW --over-- EQ2. If the cost of a game is any measure of its global appeal, I don't see why I have to defend WoW over EQ2 at all. Although the court of public opinion isn't always "right", its safe to say that more people are willing to subscribe to WoW then EQ2 and EQ COMBINED. I know wher the EQ2 fanbois are, they are in utter denial that their beloved game has been destroyed by SOE.....they don't want to face the cold hard truth, so they obviously 20% of the MMO community has to be wrong .....not SOE!
I tend to agree that both EQ2 and WoW lack originality on the surface....but which game is more **fun** for the majoirity? Every new "innovative" feature Sony has implemented has been in a mad dash to clone the features of WoW that came out of the box: more solo quests, "vitality"/rest, ingame mail, offline trading. EQ2 is full of after thoughts because the primary focus of the game maker is not to make the game fun so people will subscribe, its to create a fishing rod to pull every last nickel and dime out of our pockets.
I played both games, and its true, it seems WoW is a little lacking on the end game, its true that EQ2's graphics are better (even if the player models all look the same), its true that EQ has a more sophisticated crafting system (that bores me to death)....but WoW has more options, more places to go....more innovation and
Well guys another argument aye, I will tell you how this all started...
Well about back in around say 2001 (sometime there) Big news while I was playing EQ1, Sony bought thier rights out verant.. I kept trucking till lucin, ect, then I lost my source of money the market in the EC tunnel was gone and I was u get the picture.. well I played along then I quit to other mmorpgs.. Well I just wanted to say that all the smaller gaming companys these days are picking up the job's of the bigger companys as I say, Example Look at Knight Online fun free and decent, because its a company that focuses on the fun of the player not the wallet, Im not say p2p is bad, cause I will p2p anytime. And an example of a company that is out there to get money would prob be sony, well ya they released some good games I liked, but if you noticed theres a big hole in the gameplay area, its just lvl up and u get to go to cooler places, ya they have plenty of quest. But when I play Eq2 there is always somthing that feels missing. That Why im going to stick with smaller companys.. Till bigger companys learn what im trying to say..
Originally posted by Rekindle What type of "auction system" did EQ 2 have when it first came out? What type of in game message system did EQ2 have when it first came out? If the MMOCharts guy is at all accurate, I don't see any reason to "defend" the orginiality of WoW --over-- EQ2. If the cost of a game is any measure of its global appeal, I don't see why I have to defend WoW over EQ2 at all. Although the court of public opinion isn't always "right", its safe to say that more people are willing to subscribe to WoW then EQ2 and EQ COMBINED. I know wher the EQ2 fanbois are, they are in utter denial that their beloved game has been destroyed by SOE.....they don't want to face the cold hard truth, so they obviously 20% of the MMO community has to be wrong .....not SOE! I tend to agree that both EQ2 and WoW lack originality on the surface....but which game is more **fun** for the majoirity? Every new "innovative" feature Sony has implemented has been in a mad dash to clone the features of WoW that came out of the box: more solo quests, "vitality"/rest, ingame mail, offline trading. EQ2 is full of after thoughts because the primary focus of the game maker is not to make the game fun so people will subscribe, its to create a fishing rod to pull every last nickel and dime out of our pockets. I played both games, and its true, it seems WoW is a little lacking on the end game, its true that EQ2's graphics are better (even if the player models all look the same), its true that EQ has a more sophisticated crafting system (that bores me to death)....but WoW has more options, more places to go....more innovation and no zoning! :P
Very well said. I think the overall error Sony made was they tried too much to control the players' gaming experience. There is a fine line where a host can cross from being helpful to a guest to being an intrusive hindrance, and they have crossed that line, bigtime. Whenever I played EQ2, always felt that the training wheels were on and that Sony hand their hands on the steering wheel of my gaming experience. Didn't matter much, there was only one was to go (West to East, Qeynos to Antonica).
Originally posted by Stirge WoW is a great game. But after 6 months, I (a fairly casual player) already have a level 60 main character, several high level alts, and have just about explored the entire game world. I think it will be some time before Blizzard releases an expansion with new content. So I plan to pay a visit to Norath very soon. I think you can expect to see a lot more players like me making the move from WoW to EQ2 as we enter the second half of '05.
Stirge did you do all of the upper level raids? The reason why I am asking is, I quit WoW because I couldn't spend hours running raids (and other reasons). Even then, if I was able to do so, I think I would have been bored soon.
Several threads on the WoW official forums were people like me, who wanted content outside of raids.
No, I don't do raids. I play WoW a lot. But it's always in 1-2 hour increments. I really can't commit to 4 hours of uninterupted play to do the high level instances.
Originally posted by Stirge kimmorpg; No, I don't do raids. I play WoW a lot. But it's always in 1-2 hour increments. I really can't commit to 4 hours of uninterupted play to do the high level instances.
That was my circumstance as well. There were arguments that raids didn't last 4 hours. But anytime I tried to participate in a raid, I found it to take up to an hour just to get the raid going. Then the raid itself would take at least 2 hours.
I don't disagree that raids might not take that long. But I bet a lot of those people were a part of regular raiding guilds that had the time to get raiding down to a science (however, once again getting to that point would take a lot of raiding that I wouldn't be able to take part in, catch-22 for me!).
I wonder does EQ2 offer other things to do besides raiding to that extent. Otherwise, I would be in the same situation I ended up in with WoW.
Comments
I think you might need a lesson or two in business development. From what I have seen the model used for the EQ2 roll out is a very solid one. Take the bias hat off for a sec and think about it. Have you ever seen a platform flex in the ways that EQ2 has?
Yes, and that is WOW.
Name an ORIGINAL idea that WoW has introduced to the MMORPG community. Plus this "free" expansion LOL, what free expansion?! Oh the slow as hell content patches are now considered expansions now by the WoW players.
Funny thing all "free" expansions WoW is coming out with was stuff that was supposed to be in the game when it went live 7 months ago lol.
Plus where's all the high end content we were promised? The Devs told us, "Yes don't worry about the fast pace in leveling because the real game will start at the high end." Well, if they meant farming a few high end instances 100s of times and then 6+ months later offer us Gank-fest 05 (honor system/battlegrounds) then they really fooled us all.
I woke up from the lies that Blizzard told us, will you?
What type of "auction system" did EQ 2 have when it first came out? What type of in game message system did EQ2 have when it first came out?
If the MMOCharts guy is at all accurate, I don't see any reason to "defend" the orginiality of WoW --over-- EQ2. If the cost of a game is any measure of its global appeal, I don't see why I have to defend WoW over EQ2 at all. Although the court of public opinion isn't always "right", its safe to say that more people are willing to subscribe to WoW then EQ2 and EQ COMBINED. I know wher the EQ2 fanbois are, they are in utter denial that their beloved game has been destroyed by SOE.....they don't want to face the cold hard truth, so they obviously 20% of the MMO community has to be wrong .....not SOE!
I tend to agree that both EQ2 and WoW lack originality on the surface....but which game is more **fun** for the majoirity? Every new "innovative" feature Sony has implemented has been in a mad dash to clone the features of WoW that came out of the box: more solo quests, "vitality"/rest, ingame mail, offline trading. EQ2 is full of after thoughts because the primary focus of the game maker is not to make the game fun so people will subscribe, its to create a fishing rod to pull every last nickel and dime out of our pockets.
I played both games, and its true, it seems WoW is a little lacking on the end game, its true that EQ2's graphics are better (even if the player models all look the same), its true that EQ has a more sophisticated crafting system (that bores me to death)....but WoW has more options, more places to go....more innovation and
no zoning! :P
Well guys another argument aye, I will tell you how this all started...
Well about back in around say 2001 (sometime there) Big news while I was playing EQ1, Sony bought thier rights out verant.. I kept trucking till lucin, ect, then I lost my source of money the market in the EC tunnel was gone and I was
u get the picture.. well I played along then I quit to other mmorpgs.. Well I just wanted to say that all the smaller gaming companys these days are picking up the job's of the bigger companys as I say, Example Look at Knight Online fun free and decent, because its a company that focuses on the fun of the player not the wallet, Im not say p2p is bad, cause I will p2p anytime. And an example of a company that is out there to get money would prob be sony, well ya they released some good games I liked, but if you noticed theres a big hole in the gameplay area, its just lvl up and u get to go to cooler places, ya they have plenty of quest. But when I play Eq2 there is always somthing that feels missing. That Why im going to stick with smaller companys.. Till bigger companys learn what im trying to say..
-Thankyou
Stirge did you do all of the upper level raids? The reason why I am asking is, I quit WoW because I couldn't spend hours running raids (and other reasons). Even then, if I was able to do so, I think I would have been bored soon.
Several threads on the WoW official forums were people like me, who wanted content outside of raids.
Sorry for the hijack.
kimmorpg;
No, I don't do raids. I play WoW a lot. But it's always in 1-2 hour increments. I really can't commit to 4 hours of uninterupted play to do the high level instances.
That was my circumstance as well. There were arguments that raids didn't last 4 hours. But anytime I tried to participate in a raid, I found it to take up to an hour just to get the raid going. Then the raid itself would take at least 2 hours.
I don't disagree that raids might not take that long. But I bet a lot of those people were a part of regular raiding guilds that had the time to get raiding down to a science (however, once again getting to that point would take a lot of raiding that I wouldn't be able to take part in, catch-22 for me!).
I wonder does EQ2 offer other things to do besides raiding to that extent. Otherwise, I would be in the same situation I ended up in with WoW.