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Looking for open world, PvE focus, crafting, heavy grouping
I had a perfectly functional topic for this going here, before it was randomly closed in spite of logic : http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/157538/page/1
A recap of things I've tried, and the evolution of what I want in a game :
- I should be able to hunt or otherwise earn experience when I can't find a group. Soloing to maximum level should probably be possible (but not entirely necessary), but it shouldn't be the most efficient method, because...- I should always be able to find a group, at any level. This can either be due to the size of the server population, or the game could be designed with positive rewards for grouping. (Positive would be experience per player faster over a given length of time, either questing or killing. Negative would be making most content so hard that a group is absolutely necessary.)
- Item crafting should be interesting, and definitely not tedious. (Component collecting can be borderline tedious, I suppose.) Crafted items should be viable for at least either economic reasons or being functionally equivalent (or serving alternate functions) as dropped items.
- Roleplaying elements should exist in the world (strong, compelling, detailed world lore), but not be forced on the players, either by the game or by the community. Basically, you should be able to roleplay if you want to, not do if you don't want to, but the world should be so awesome that even the most hardcore powergamers are simply compelled to by mystical force.
Genre doesn't matter. Graphics quality doesn't matter (although I have a 7950GT for a reason!) Age of the game doesn't matter. Decent subscriber base would be good, but it doesn't matter if there are enough players in the world to make it work. Games I've played before... *runs electric current into the brain to remember them all from so long ago* ...Everquest, DAoC, AO, AC, GW, LOTRO, WoW, AA, Jumpgate, SWG, EQ2, Planetside, Puzzle Pirates, CoH, DDO, EVE, Lineage 2, Tabula Rasa, Vendetta Online, and I've tried just about every pay-to-play style "free" MMO there is. Some of those were only in beta, but I have a good idea of what the game is like and ability to find groups is like if I bothered to include it on this list. The only free game I played much of was Space Cowboy, which doesn't really compare to my list here due to its design, and I don't mention that I've spent a lot of time in There and Second Life as well. I also leave out the golf games, no real killing or quests there.
I guess that's another point I left out - I absolutely cannot comprehend the logic of game designers that make 75% or the game's content for players at or near the maximum level, and then continue to force new players and characters to work their way up to the level where the fun part of the game actually begins. (To me, that's where you start playing with other people more regularly. To others, I can see that being the level for which the majority of the content is designed.)
You're hitting on every reason why I'm looking for a new MMO and I'm logged into WoW while I'm writing this post. Sure, you can solo to 60 - you have to, because no one is grouping other than instanced dungeons, and not really even that at lower levels. If it's supposed to be an MMO, why do I not actually play with people before 60? Just start me at 60, in that case.I already play on RP servers, because they tend to have more intelligent and mature players. (Tend to. Not always, heh.) I would never join an RP guild... I was in a "light" RP guild that went nuts if you said anything out of character in guild chat, you were supposed to use a custom chat channel for that (that no one was ever in.) The rules of RP servers are that guild chat is the only truly unmonitored, OOC permitted channel. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me when and how all our character got communal telepathic powers that work across planets that we can use /tell and general chat channels that they're supposed to be in-character...
Yeah, I've been noticing and hearing about that. I don't want to get there faster, I want getting there to be more fun. I'd rather see more MMOs put out every other expansion with no content for max level players, but enough excellent lower level content that everyone would buy it and leave their current characters to run a new character through it all.
That's one thing I loved about CoH, finding a group was never a problem. (And finding people to permanently ignore when they realized I wasn't an empathy defender, but was, in fact, more effective, but still wouldn't group with me, was also easy to do.I loved how much hurricane was and probably still is overpowered, but no one used it properly so no one noticed...) It just gets old after a while, repeating the same series of attacks against any type of NPCs over and over, and maybe having to find some glowing object to finish a mission. That could be said about a lot of games, but it seemed to wear thin a lot sooner in CoX than other MMOs.
It's not impossible to make games that are single dimensional that keep you playing a long time - wrestling games have only one goal, any sports game (not counting a franchise manager mode or whatever), Forza or other racing games in the sense that you can both drive and paint the cars. I just don't get why it's never done in an MMO in a way that it is constantly new and changed every time. (Planetside is a good example, because your opponent learns what you're trying to do eventually, and changes their tactic. Kind of hard to compare with a game that has zero PvE, I suppose.)
It's not an impossible thing for me to try games I've quit from in the past (like my current subscription to WoW), but it's hard for me to want to go back, even after major changes, when most players are not going to be using characters that I can group with, and I'm not interested in a game where I have to play some 200 hours of single player before I can play the multiplayer part. (That could be said of Pokemon, but at least the single player part of that is fun plus it doesn't remind you constantly that you're not doing the multiplayer part yet...)
So, three years later (or so) and I'm looking again. I've tried just about every micropayment game since the last posts, but there hasn't been a subscription MMO out since then that I've been particularly interested in. (Might have gotten myself stuck in STO if I'd gotten into beta, but it definitely looked bad enough in gameplay videos and reviews that I would never buy it.) Still waiting on Jumpgate Evolution, but that will always be along whatever sports and fantasy RPG titles I'm playing at any time. Been playing Football Superstars since last January, got stupidly banned (game staff stupid, banning me instead of the player who actually broke the rules, long story), and still play currently on a newer account (game staff seems to be "over it".) Cant get myself to stay into DDO or EQ2 lately, since DDO has that D&D hook (if not much else) and I have time invested in EQ2 (too much work to catch back up in EQ1.)Then I realized that I always go back to roguelikes! Incursion, ADoM, Nethack, Angband - I'll play just about any roguelike over and over forever, even installing emulators on my portable devices like DS or Palm Pre to play them! So, I ask the impossible question...
Are there any MMOs I haven't tried that play like a 3-D multiplayer roguelike? Same preferences apply : crafting, large persistent world without instances, mechanical encouragement for grouping but at least mostly soloable, non-sucky lore, and if the game is older, the population cannot be at "on life support" levels.
Took me a bit to search for my old post to bump it.Vanguard's mechanics were fine, graphics not distracting, slightly better combat than the standard "mash every hotkey as soon as it refreshes" WoW or EQ2, crafting system was frustrating yet satisfying when you finally make something, umm... The diplomacy game could have been a little more complex and challenging, but it was an interesting alternative to simply running around killing every badger, frog, and undead you can find. Been a while since I played it, can't think of anything else specific, but even having found a fairly active guild, I still couldn't just log on and find players my level looking for a group or groups begging me to join. (In fact, the only game I know of on the level of group finding-ness I want is Planetside, but the genre and mechanics play a huge role in that, obviously. On the plus side, I racked up plenty of XP even without a group by driving support vehicles near combat and then hiding in a nearby hill and sniping.)
I think what I want most when I say "roguelike" is the lack of explicit game guides (for some.) Even if the basic overworld map is static, dungeons (if instanced, public - I want to see other players!) would be mechanically random so that guide websites would only be useful for game mechanics - the overall design should limit the usefulness of maps and quest guides found on various web sites. Soloers or groups would have to actually go into a dungeon and explore it, and the NPC AI should be good enough that you actually have to prepare in a general sense (knowing you're going to be running into a dungeon of illithids still could mean they're mages, warriors, priests, or some mix of those, and no telling what they're keeping as pets/slaves), and then figure out the actual combat strategy when you get that far - preferably with options for finishing quests or dungeons without any combat at all, if you're good (of course, the game design would have to prevent exploits, but stat and skill system making it manageable.)
In a tabletop RPG setting, you never know what the DM is bringing in terms of location, monsters, quest-y bits, or anything else on a given night. That's the aspect of roguelikes I want to see in an MMO, but I'm pretty sure does not exist yet. That's why I'm posting here, in case I'm wrong and someone else knows which game I'm looking for.
Finally got around to trying Darkfall. Game looks decent, I love the skill system and combat system, hate that there's nothing to do but grind skills or kill other players. So much so, that someone followed me around (still under protection) for quite a while waiting to see if I'd die to PvE enemies, and looted my corpse when I did. I'd put away two sets of equipment in the bank, but that's still too much of an indication of a lack of compelling PvE content. Make a game with Darkfall's combat and everything else (full PvP included!) in a world the size and depth of EQ1 and you'd have something. (And with a functional alignment system. Planetside certainly did it right...)Anything else I haven't tried that might be decent?
I don't know why I didn't mention it in my bump post, I had played CoH and EQ2 within a month of making the post. Not being able to get back into either was what made me post. Bit of a waste of money for the reactivation month in each game except when I do EQ2, because I usually play a million hours on an alt for a month and then not have the money to keep the account going (I seem to have bad timing with that game, heh.) It was the first time I'd unsubscribed from CoH willingly.
Did Darkfall, joined one of the most powerful guilds on the server. They were very helpful, defending our holdings was interesting, and my FPS and artillery game experience helped tremendously at archery. Forced onto a bad wifi connection, Darkfall doesn't handle latency at all (not just "poorly", if you drop packets ever, you might as well not even try to play), and I stopped to save the money and until I could get my proper connection back.Gave Asheron's Call a try, but it's dead at the low levels and starting town. If I wanted to have to solo to catch the high level population just to find people who are grouping at a given level range, I'd go bore myself with WoW.
Looking for a new game (or not new) again, decided it wasn't quite what I was looking for, so here I am back at this thread, bumping for great justice.
Emphasis this time : People always on. Lots of people. Not just the top-heavy hardcore population. Always someone to group with at all levels. Game design allows for soloing, but people will actually WANT to group at all levels (either because the game is hard or because they give bonus XP or soemthing else mechanical.) Large world. Questy bits that actually take some thought from the player. Randomish monster spawns and dungeons (procedurally generated games are awesome - see roguelikes or Spelunky.) Player crafted items are very functional, yet rare (scarce? To use an economics term), and crafting does not have a painful interface. Classless and levelless a plus. Experience should be based on how much time is spent actively playing the game, and a "busy" and effective new player *will* make significant strides on a complacent veteran. (Does it sound like that that one explicitly excludes EVE? It is meant to.) Genre is unimportant, but can't be outright silly.
Most of all, the game must look like it was published by a competent company with a decent sized staff, preferably who knows how to test their own game for bugs without basically beta testing on the end user. Graphics aren't a big deal (my Atari 2600 is still hooked up to my TV right now), but they are one sign that the game is well designed.
Yes, I know I ask too much, but I am really getting sick of making new characters or parties in Neverwinter Nights 2, or having to always fall back to roguelikes (Incursion and ADoM, mostly.)
Let's try two years later... out of college, have a job. Only things that hold my attention or interest for long are World of Tanks and Football Superstars. I maintain my Station Pass or All Access or whatever they call it this week, but I rarely use it. I have an active EVE account and There.com account as well. I still play Neverwinter Nights 2 weekly, trying random character classes and races and trying to do anything with the storyline I haven't (there really isn't anything left, I have every bit of voice acting from the first act of the first campaign memorized.)Does my game exist yet? Sandbox, procedurally generated inside a persistant world (instancing at a minimum), deep crafting, player economy, skills instead of levels is a plus, PvP can exist but PvE should be the focus. The theme and genre largely do not matter (since my preference is Dragonlance or Forgotten Realms, and I know I'm not getting that.)
Edit - Yes, I have Minecraft. That's a single player Rogue-like, not an MMO.
Path of Exile is not my type. Final Fantasy anything is not my type (as an MMO. I like the single player RPGs.) Had GW1, never played it after the first week. Tried to get back into AO, EQ, EQ2, DDO, Vanguard, or Planetside in the past couple days, but none of them are really "sticking", and I think it's for the same reason.Let's make it simpler, then : None of the games above. No WoW, no SWTOR. People grouping in pick up groups AROUND THE CLOCK, players using the LFG tools available to them rather than spamming chat, and a preference toward groups that form first and decide what to try to do after. Hell, if it even exists, a game that is impossible to progress solo would be fine.
Edit - Small groups. Not raids. Waiting on account support to try Fallen Earth.
Fallen Earth wasn't it. (In no small part due to their breaking of their own, mostly working crafting system.) Hawken and MWO aren't really MMOs in the sense that I'm looking for, but I'm also still playing both of those.I'm still very put off of Neverwinter for not using 3.5 rules, but I'll probably try it anyway. Is there anything left worth trying? I found a site showing the subscription numbers for many games, and I'm surprised at which ones are large at all, and how small everything else really is. I think my problem will always be that companies have found a way to make a profit in the diluted market, games aren't driven out of the market nearly fast enough if they aren't hugely successful, and so they don't aim for being the next WoW anymore, and the lack of effort and resources shows.
Is it too much to ask for a game where fights are hard, and dying matters? Where there is a good crafting system, or none at all and the game is so good you don't even notice? Where the world is dynamic enough that people can't quote to you from memory the quest progression from start to cap?
Presently spamming alts at Champions Online. I get annoyed when the low level content is sparse and linear, because I like to try every type of character, and would prefer doing something different each time. Now that I have six characters between 15 and 20, they're each doing totally different content, purely out of coincidence. I'll be playing that until I run out of new things to shoot with lasers, punch, cast spells on, claw, blast, slice with swords... yeah.Finding "that game" would still pull me away from it, of course.
It's been six months, so I'll dig it back up and pretend I missed a game launch that suits me.Picked up Skyrim, played a billion characters, each to about two levels higher than the previous, but kept starting over. I imagine I'll always have that problem with single player games that are not procedurally generated. Rather than trying to take my favorite character through what the game throws at me, I try to take different character concepts through the same game. (NWN2 problem all over again.)
I love The Binding of Isaac and Rogue Legacy, for obvious reasons. Shadowrun Returns is an awesome premise, but not my type of game. Been spending most of my time in Planetside 2 and Football Superstars, because I just can't make myself play any RPGs.
Maybe my ideal game has changed, though the sound of these things running through my head are probably pretty close to my posts so far in the thread. The game need not include the entire list (that's asking too much), but as many as possible and not a game I've played before...
Procedurally generated content deeper than "loot tables".
Crafting system that matters.
Skill based advancement rather than level based.
Skill based character development rather than restrictive classes.
Open world that gives a reason to explore, bigger the better. Fast travel not required.
PvP is undesirable, but when entirely optional (no character advancement from it), its presence is okay. Exceptions to this for full time PvP games that are done well, but this is rare, and I still don't prefer it.
Lots of players grouping frequently and in all level ranges. Ideally, twinking would be prevented or minimized, or it should at least be possible to find people actually playing through the game as a character instead of trying to "beat" the game, especially when they consider their previous characters having done so as their reason to make alts.
Neuromancer? Tolkien? Forgotten Realms? Star Trek? Theme really doesn't matter if its done well for what it is.
Multiple ways to complete the same content. I should be able to choose any style from Sam Fisher to Incredible Hulk and succeed if I use my skills correctly and have trained and equipped sufficiently.
Edit - Tried Neverwinter Online. Might as well have named it Champions Faerun, because Cryptic can't make any other game. Good for super hero games, utter crap for fantasy.
Also edit - I have an active SOE All Access subscription that only gets used for Planetside 2, and an active Champions Online subscription that rarely gets used. I also subscribe to There.com, on principle. Even if I never log in, it should not cease to exist.
Support? I play rangers. Range DPS and melee DPS and support and stealth. Not always the best at each, plus a few toys unique to them. That said, it's still all about the animal companions and the bows.I own GW1, not seeing a reason to go back to that over Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights. Hell, I'd rather try to find a decent, well populated MUD.
Part of the problem with most games is not the fact that most or all classes can solo, it's what particular enemies they are able to solo. A cleric should handle undead and demons, and not much else. Magic users for other magic users or things not resistant to magic, fighters for fighters or things specifically resistant to magic. Maybe a little more complexity to the rock-paper-scissors metaphor, but most types of enemies should be out of reach of most classes, and grouping would allow you to tackle some of the others.
I definitely plan to try Everquest Next. Most of my problem may go away within the next year anyway, as Ubisoft is poised to kick all genres squarely in the balls. The Crew, The Division, and Rocksmith 2014? I may actually not have time for Planetside 2, even.
I will probably bump this thread forever, waiting patiently for games to go back to playing for the sake of playing, instead of playing to gain levels. "Progress" should be a side effect of everything else in the game, not the reason for it.
Like every year, it's getting to November or December and I am bored of what I've been doing, but haven't heard about anything I'd rather be doing...Currently playing 1-3 hours of Rocksmith 2014 a day. I'm now better on bass than guitar and regularly smashing up people in the competitions.
Still pretending Football Superstars isn't dying, but I play maybe one match per day on average.
Still in my Planetside 2 outfit, but not nearly active enough compared to them. (But it's still an option.)
I have an open invite back to my WoT clan, but haven't gotten around to trying to get back into it.
Firefall has been pretty good, but it's not always as active as I'd like or as social as it could be for the size of world and repetitiveness of its content.
Gave up on Champions Online. I get character ideas, but don't want to do the same *EVERYTHING* for each character up to level 15, maybe 20. At least CoH had some options for progression.
I still have two EVE accounts active, and the "alt" is trained up to the point of being extremely useful, but I still don't actually do it.
Poked into Path of Exile... meh, I'd rather buy Diablo 3.
Tried SWTOR again, just couldn't stick with it.
MWO is probably a year away from where I am willing to put time and money into it (clan mechs, Timber Wolf in particular.)
I peeked back onto the site because of Darkfall UW, which looks stupid having played Darkfall before, and ended up looking into progression servers for EQ, which aren't interesting to me currently (and might never be. Luclin plus LDoN skipping PoP would sell me. Yes, locked, not actual progression.)
So, after all of this, I'm willing to settle. I already know my desire for procedural content is beyond the capacity of any game dev alive today, and beyond the budget of any publisher with executives willing to take risks. All I ask is REAL flexibility in classes or skills (including the game's use of twitch), some people that actually group at low level (ideally, the game would force this), with a good number of those being people who play the game rather than glue their face to a window open to a spoiler site, and I don't care about genre or mechanics (although I will not play a game with cheesy stereotypical Asian art style.) Does it exist and I haven't already tried it?
Independently of the suggestion in this thread, I have purchased Starbound. I get more play from Civ V, CCGs on my phone, and old Roguelikes. It has all the elements I'm looking for except "3D RPG" or "MMO".Rust and Nether looked interesting, but the PvP issues could be glossed over - server size cannot. I should state that "MMO" is emphasized over every other thing I ask for in this thread, if it wasn't enough that I state my disdain for instances of any kind.
I'm on the mailing list for ToA, but their Kickstarter doesn't look like something I'd touch, for entirely different reasons I won't go near Star Citizen (and I'd put money that I'll never have the chance to, to go totally off topic.
I will peek at the few other suggestions so far, as well as anything on the game list on the site that launched recently. Since my last post, I've played Football Superstars maybe twice in as many weeks, and any reason I had to play it is largely dying off. I've played Planetside 2 even less. Rocksmith is still at least a daily thing, to the point that I'm now recording myself playing so people can see why I smash up their scores (and pretending that some local band will see them and decide they want me to join, of course!)
As much as I like many of the concepts introduced in ArcheAge, it has too many things that definitely put me off of paying to beta it early, and maybe enough to keep me from trying it at all. I really, really do not like "second hand" MMOs, where it is licensed in my region, usually behind its native region by some months, and little or no feedback from my region's players actually reach the developers or have an impact on design. Also, why ruin a great leveling and "class" concept by allowing unlimited switching in real time. Travel back to a hometown each time you want to switch? I could have lived with that. Just seems like they're talking a novel combination of features that exist in other games, but not fully implementing any of them.Wildstar is right out. I got maybe to level 4 and uninstalled it between vomit bags.
Still mostly looking for D&D style stat systems or classes systems like you'd find in Diku MUDs where having more abilities makes it take longer to level. As much procedural generation as possible, as open world as possible (few or no instances), and meaningful crafting.
Would settle for a game where people still play it, together, from level 1 to whatever. If they're selling a service of leveling a character to "catch up" to the game's content, it is probably not going to be my choice.
Played, won't go back : AoC, ArcheAge, AC, AC2, Darkfall, FE, Firefall, GW, Lineage, Lineage 2, PWI, Rift, Silkroad, SWTOR, TERA, WoW.
Played, would consider with a massive change in development focus or influx of players, etc : AO, CO, DDO, EVE, EQ, EQ2, LOTRO, MWO, PS2, Puzzle Pirates.
Vetoed, either due to my beta experience, reviews, or gameplay video : DAoC, The Crew, TSW, ESO.
I still play Football Superstars, but it has a distinct lack of stabbing or quests (or development.) I still randomly play MWO or PS2, but it doesn't take enough of my time.
Short version : *HUGE* open world, classless, levelless, PvE oriented, highly functional crafting, no instances if possible, some static quests and dungeons (or thematic equivalent), many procedural dungeons, grouping positively encouraged a lot, negatively encouraged if necessary (I don't consider the game being hard in this category if this isn't the reason it's hard), expansive lore. Shooters are also acceptable, genre and theme don't largely matter.
Comments
Keep waitng.
Repopulation maybe. Or Black Desert.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
GW2? .....not clasless, and levels don't matter but it has the rest more or less
also Archeage but it is open world PVP with awfull community (the worst i met)
All-time fave : City of Heroes/Villains
Played and returning from time to time : GW2, Tera, CO
Played: Aion, Archeage, DCUO, FXIV:ARR, Rift, SWTOR, TSW, Vindictus, Wildstar
Playing atm : WoW, Hearthstone, Tera, GW2
Big post but I think you missed this part.
Played, won't go back : AoC, ArcheAge, AC, AC2, Darkfall, FE, Firefall, GW, Lineage, Lineage 2, PWI, Rift, Silkroad, SWTOR, TERA, WoW.
Played, would consider with a massive change in development focus or influx of players, etc : AO, CO, DDO, EVE, EQ, EQ2, LOTRO, MWO, PS2, Puzzle Pirates.
Vetoed, either due to my beta experience, reviews, or gameplay video : DAoC, The Crew, TSW, ESO.
I still play Football Superstars, but it has a distinct lack of stabbing or quests (or development.) I still randomly play MWO or PS2, but it doesn't take enough of my time.
Short version : *HUGE* open world, classless, levelless, PvE oriented, highly functional crafting, no instances if possible, some static quests and dungeons (or thematic equivalent), many procedural dungeons, grouping positively encouraged a lot, negatively encouraged if necessary (I don't consider the game being hard in this category if this isn't the reason it's hard), expansive lore. Shooters are also acceptable, genre and theme don't largely matter.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
oops for archeage
when u said GW i thought only the original
All-time fave : City of Heroes/Villains
Played and returning from time to time : GW2, Tera, CO
Played: Aion, Archeage, DCUO, FXIV:ARR, Rift, SWTOR, TSW, Vindictus, Wildstar
Playing atm : WoW, Hearthstone, Tera, GW2
Whenever I see someone list more than 5 major MMO's they have played, then I believe it is going to take something extraordinarily different, to get them excited. Haven't really seen that yet.
Always wonder where people find the time.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
i played heavily COH .... after the sunset i tried and played all the AAA MMOs that are out there (exept ESO and WoW)......
but i didn't invested time in them for gear grinding in endgame, my aproach is leveling, explore, lore, sightseeing, smell the roses and having casual fun.... all of them had their positives and negatives, but i had good fun
there are some of theese games that i return for a month or so (GW2, Tera, CO)
.. and finally decided to give a go to WoW (4th day noob in Azeroth
All-time fave : City of Heroes/Villains
Played and returning from time to time : GW2, Tera, CO
Played: Aion, Archeage, DCUO, FXIV:ARR, Rift, SWTOR, TSW, Vindictus, Wildstar
Playing atm : WoW, Hearthstone, Tera, GW2
I scrolled all the way down and read 'Expansive lore' and 'shooters are also acceptable' and just laughed...sorry.I think your confussled and am not prepared to read a novel to decide if I am right or wrong.
Edit: EQ2 is still the best MMORPG ever made though and an expansion is out on the 11/11 !
Does it really help you that much if I say "combat mechanics don't matter as long as they work"?
Yeah, and it'll be an expansion with only zones for level 100-110 characters, or however high it goes this time. Give me two new races and two new classes and a new hometown and level-up continent (like Kunark, but a 1-100, not a 1-20 and 80-90 like it was.) I don't play EQ2 because I can't get groups at my level. It's largely the reason I don't play a lot of games, and why I look to new ones I haven't heard of.
Final Fantasy : a realm reborn is a pretty solid mmo (and i don't see listed in the last paragraph)
when i was there it was easy to team quickly in every lvl (good design dungeons too)
All-time fave : City of Heroes/Villains
Played and returning from time to time : GW2, Tera, CO
Played: Aion, Archeage, DCUO, FXIV:ARR, Rift, SWTOR, TSW, Vindictus, Wildstar
Playing atm : WoW, Hearthstone, Tera, GW2
He says to someone who subscribed to Everquest for seven years, and played MUDs for five years before Everquest existed.
I would go with Runescape or their official "Old School" Runescape. After it is said and done, there is no better mmo out there; for the mental construct and archetype you alluded to, it is a grand mmo.
http://wyrdblogging.blogspot.com/
The art style, ignoring the age of the game, is a bit off putting. I could get over that, but I just have a thing about games without a standalone client...
I read some articles and reviews, and poked at a couple Twitch streams. I think I'd be more likely to go back to Second Life or There full time.
You make very good points about the engine, which is why I no longer play it.
http://wyrdblogging.blogspot.com/
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
The fact that this exists...
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/29dmg5/bringing_danger_back_into_the_open_world_in/
...keeps me from wanting to try the game. I'm okay with breaking up the world into zones for server or client performance reasons, but very little should exist as private instances. (Maybe housing.) Watched a few streams as well, and while a 30 minute long boss fight is fine for a single player RPG, that just seems excessive in an MMO. Taking a few hours to carefully fight through a zone to avoid being overwhelmed while working toward a big ending fight is fine.
I should say that it is for other reasons that I wouldn't go back to Asheron's Call. (Population, primarily.) It is the closest to what I want by a wide margin. Anarchy Online is also close, if you overlook instancing of mission locations.
SWTOR is pretty decent. It's free to play and the questing experience is worth a go. The crafting system isn't what I would call tedious, but it's definitely a different approach to crafting for an MMO. PvP is pretty fun and honestly fairly balanced, but ranked PvP suffers greatly with a low pop community. It's easy to find groups with their group finder, but you can expect the same type of queues as a DPS like other MMOs. In world it's easy to find 2-3 players to help you complete the heroic quests. You left SWTOR off your list so I'm just going with it. The F2P restrictions are a little ridiculous. I would recommend subbing at least once so you can get "preferred" status. Most of their player base is on PvE and RP server, I think RP servers are the most populated, but open world PvP is huge joke anyways in SWTOR.
I heard good things about Star Trek. I know it's a seasoned MMO now, but they do a lot of fun events and update their game with things like that. I couldn't say much about the actual gameplay... I just fail to see how it works in an MMO.
Also ESO was a good game to start, but has launch issues like every other MMO. I'd give ESO a shot if you haven't already.
Played SWTOR for a while, before and after it went F2P. It's a Bioware game, though - excellent single player RPG, mediocre multiplayer slapped on.
ESO is way too PvP heavy for me. I wanted multiplayer Skyrim, and I don't think I'm alone in that regard.
STO is about as far away from a Star Trek game as I could want. I want to be a single crew member on a ship, not the entirety of it. Combat should be coincidental to missions, not the purpose. And then there's the limitations of race and empire... no Orion, Ferrengi, Gorn, Cardassian, or anything from the delta quadrant? No thanks.
Poking around at Project Gorgon, it meets way more of my requirements than I thought currently existed. About all I could ask of it is for it to be more complete, but that just takes time.
Give Project Gorgon a chance, It's oldschool EQ style MMO that is in open alfa and free to download and play.
http://projectgorgon.com/
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
I always see people saying stuff like that oh I just want to be a crew member on a big ship.. other than the guy who flys or the guy that shoots what else would make a fun position ? Engineer maybe changing power settings between weapons, shields and engines now and then, fixing something that brakes.. I think pilot and gunner roles would be ok but anything else would be very very boring.
What do you mean the limitation of races ? The klingon empire has the following races available to them Ferasan, Gorn, Lethean, Liberated borg, Joined, Trill, Nausicaan and orions..
The federation has even more options including Ferengi..
If you really wanted to you also make your own totally custom race.
Still its not a very good game at the end of the day lol
From all the other things you have posted and from the bits I read of the main post it looks like you have tried nearly every MMORPG out there lol the only thing I can say is that maybe these kind of games are not for you.
Again, I need to point out that I was subscribed to EQ for seven years, CoH for four, and a good number of other games for over a year. I'm pretty damn sure I'm interested in MMOs. I'm not interested in *BAD* MMOs that cater to players who want an easy game.
I should have been more specific about races in STO - I want their ships. The crew members are a given. Being the other crew is boring? You know, that's what the SWG devs said about "playing as Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer, instead of playing as a Jedi", and look where they are now...
Hello Desirsar,
I enjoyed your write-up, thanks for sharing your "mmo" career ; )) I think most gamers' have run into those walls at times. Look at the the turn-over for in game populations.... I think a lot of us identify with you. I haven't committed to any online rpg's lately (or in ages) and am still waiting to "find" my next home. So i do appreciate everyone's comments here.
Like you i get a pvp fix with WoT. It's interesting that i enjoy that type of pvp daily but have never taken part in any mmo pvp..I wanted to say I get my rpg fix from a source i have never expected - a console. Yes, a sp rpg roped me in and i can't put it down, not until at least i find a nice online 'home' that is. Give Dragons Dogma a try (if you have a ps3 that is). I unexpectedly have enjoyed the hell out of it.
I think you are missing the point here. Everyone here is an old vet of some MMO that they played for years, EQ, UO. SWG whatever.
The problem is like I noted earlier, you have a list of MMO's played, that is long and lengthy. And when someone has tried as many as you have and still find the need to come here asking for help. well guess what? Symptoms of burnout I am afraid.
The more you play the more critical you become. There is no earth shattering MMO that is going to satisfy all your demands. You know it and we know it. You know what is out there, as much as we do, don't kid yourself.
I've been playing Project Gorgon also. Nice little MMO, that I hope goes far. But I could play a lot of different MMO's and enjoy them. The reason why isbecause I am not searching for the next UO or EQ as so many bitter vets here seem to be.
I think its about time you placed yourself in that category as well.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!