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Archeage, Jack of All Trades, Ace of None
Spankster77
Member UncommonPosts: 487
The title pretty much sums up my feelings about Archeage. This game has a ton of different features which is cool, unfortunately it doesn't do any of these features great. I am going to present the major features of AA and give my opinion on each.
1. PvE - Sure AA has it, you can quest to max level but in comparison to games like ESO, GW2, TSW this game just falls horribly short both in storyline and execution. As far as dungeons go this game can't hold a candle to games like FFXIV, WoW, and even Wildstar.
2. PvP - This is arguably the main focus of AA but again the execution is just missing something. PvP in this game relies too heavily on CC, basically in a 1 v 1 the player with the most CC will win. Outside of 1 v 1 most open world PvP is just groups of zergers running around PKing smaller groups. In addition to all the CC and zerging there is no lag compensation which large scale PvP even more of a joke. Most group vs. group PvP is about popping defensive CD's and using AoE if you're melee or staying at ranged and using AoE if you're ranged. No real skill is required.
3. Land Ownership - Awesome idea, horrible implementation. I have been playing since pre-release and I am still unable to procure anything larger than an 8 x 8. For starters day one was all about grabbing as much land as physically possible so you had people rolling 3 - 4 alts grabbing up land within 2 hours of launch. Since launch whenever a plot goes up for sale basically botters grab it up before real people can. Again, XL and Trion could have remedied this situation fairly easily by limiting land per account but instead they have done nothing.
4. Farming - This games implementation of farming is a watered down version of Farmville. Nothing else really needs to be said.
5. Crafting - This feature is a prime example of P2W, anyone that says otherwise is just delusional. Crafting requires LP which are generated at a higher rate when you are a patron, 2 can be replenished every 12 hours by purchasing pots from the cash shop, which can be used by all toons on your account every 12 hours. The last part is what totally gives it away, LP is shared across all characters but each character can use a pot every 12 hours. So if I have 6 characters that's double the LP each day, if I spend enough real money of course.
So in my opinion, yes AA has tons of features but none of those features are done really well. If you are into PvE you can find better in WoW, Wildstar, FFXIV. If you are into PvP you can find better in ESO, Darkfall, and possibly even WoW. If you are into crafting (without spending tons of real money) FFXIV has a way better system. And last if you are into farming, Farmville.
Comments
Statements like this are great at summoning those who already agree but not very healthy at creating a meaningful discussion. Calling those who may disagree "delusional" is a bit over the top since I know some pretty smart cats that hold a different viewpoint.
If it were setup differently I wouldn't consider it pay 2 win. The fact that LP is shared across accounts and you are not limited to 1 pot every 12 hours per account screams P2W. The fact that I can have 5 alts and pop a pot every 12 hours on each toon allows me an extra 12k labor per day, which is over 2 x's the 5k cap. Why not just make the cap 17k then?
If you don't like P2W, lets call it pay to advance, either way it's clearly a ploy to get your real life $$.
Pay to advance is much more accurate. Its no where even near the realm of Pay to Win. Too often of late, gamers come to forums and call anything thats Free to Play "Pay to Win" and have lost sight of what that actually means. Buying labor potions is no more than buying xp potions, neither of which is pay to win anything.
At no time does buying labor potions give you any advantage over another player in terms of player stats. No permanent or temporary bonuses are applied, all you do is reach cap alittle bit faster. But the cap is the same for everyone, whether you play for free, or you spend your entire paycheck, you are still limited the same as everyone else. All you do is get there faster. Im sorry to tell you, but thats not pay to win.
Reaching "endgame" faster only gets you there faster. At no time are you "better" than anyone else, or "stronger", or have any clear advantage at all. Your stats are the same, you have the same skills (and skill points) as everyone else, nothing allows you to "win" in either PVP or PVE any better than someone who doesnt pay money. All it is is a time saver. I just dont understand the mentality these days of MMO players who think the guy who got to 50 in 3 hours is any better off than the guy who takes 3 weeks, when they have exactly the same skills, stats, ect. available to them once they hit 50.
@aslan - The best gear in AA is crafted gear, which also sells for ridiculous amounts of gold on the AH. So if I am a cloth wearer with tailoring as a profession and I max out my tailoring in a few days using stuff purchased off the real money cash shop, I have an advantage that is obtained by spending real $$.
In my opinion P2W is when real $$ spent translates to an advantage in the game, which in the case of popping pots every 12 hours on multiple toons does. No idea how this concept eludes people.
I will agree that it is not directly Pay 2 Win because Trion isn't directly selling Delphinad gear in the cash shop, but its about as close as you can possibly get.
People with tons of character spamming labor pots will get to high-end crafting faster, but at the end of the day every player is subject to the same RNG crafting system.
The main to understand is that to even play the RNG crafting game you need insane amounts of gold and labor. You need gold to buy archeum materials and labor to craft the base items over and over again when they don't roll the right stats.
Clearly someone with 20 characters spamming labor pots will be able to make exponentially more money than an average player, and be able to craft way more base items to go through the RNG game.
Regrade scrolls are also necessary and expensive and have crystals in the cash shop that improve their success chance.The only reason the game isn't pure 100% pay 2 win is because a casual player could get insanely lucky and get a successful craft on the first try. A cash shop player simply gets way more chances for success so over time the gap becomes massive = pay2win.
No you don't, and he just explained why. We have no idea why this eludes you.
Must be delusional.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
This also true.
create an account --> buy and sell 500 apex --> buy best gear in the game from AH.
Few people are going to spend that much, and Its not like tons of people could even do this because it requires a player to first craft that gear and be willing to sell it.
Its not like Trion is putting it directly in the cash shop and therefore creating an infinite supply of top end gear.
A good mmorpg is not made of great individual features but the way all features are connected.
Was allready tired of playing games this last years just because feature A was great.
Now i want a mmorpg where i find the whole picture really good.
So spending real money so you can pop pots every 12 hours on multiple toons doesn't give you faster access to better gear and more gold through selling that gear? More gold gives you the ability to build ships, purchase land, buy better gear etc.
Yeah no advantage at all *rolls eyes*
I must be missing something.
No it is false.
You forgot to explain where the advantage is, over the person who did not spend money.
There is none.
Time is not an advantage unless you can explain why it is.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
AA crafting is P2W, for:
Epherium bows do 225 average dps, and Delphinad bows do 450+ dps. These are the tier 8 and tier 9 bows. To craft a Delph, you need to upgrade an Eph, but you can only upgrade one in seven Eph bows, based on RNG.
To make an Eph bow, you have to upgrade a Magnificent (tier 7) bow, and to make a Mag, you need to upgrade an Illustrious, all of these upgrades dependant on the one in seven RNG.
The Illustrious bows can be made without RNG upgrade blocking, but they take around 200 or so gold to make, depending on how the Auction House feels that day.
So, from Ill to Mag, only one in seven can be upgraded, same from Mag to Eph, and from Eph to Delph. That is 7x7x7, or 343 tier 6 Illustrious bows, on average, required to make one Delphi bow.
So, how to get a Delphi bow quickly, fast enough to pwn the newbs before they figure it out and leave? Easy, the Cash Shop!
You can buy Worker's Compensation pots for 300 credits, and sell them for 9 to 10 gold, current prices, as of last night. You can buy logs, grind carpentry, then sell the lumber at about the same price you paid for the logs, to 50k carpentry, the amount needed to craft a Delphi bow. With 6 total toons, purchased in the cash shop, you can swill 12000 labor a day, so four days to get enough Carpentry to make the bow. Then, sell more labor pots on the AH, and start buying the mats you need for the bows.
It will cost roughly 70,000 gold to get the mats for just the T6 bows needed, if you do nothing but buy at the Cash Shop, it will cost you dear, but there are other things you can do in game for gold. 70k gold, at 10g per labor pot, 7000 pots, times 300 credits per pot, 2.1 million credits, divided by 18500 credits per $100 USD, I get 113.5 buys, for $11,400 USD.
Due to ingame variance on costs, and your game play activities that earn you gold, your cost may vary, but for around 10 grand and some intense play, you can get a Delphi bow before everyone quits the game, so you can make them quit the game.
The Delphi bow does *twice* the damage of any other bow, can be had for around 10k USD and some in game effort, and no, 'Mythic' luck status is not needed, just the basic damage of a typical Delphi bow is enough to WTFPWN anyone who does not have it. I have not touched on studding your armour with 'toughness' gems, nor on the utility of having a good competitive guild, nor made yet any comment on hax, all of which are additional considerations.
QED;
for the uninitiated, that means AA is P2W.
The advantage of time, is that with out a boost from the Cash Shop, the grind will take months of typical gameplay, while with the Cash Shop, the time is measured in only so many days, which leads to months of PWNing noobs who did not shell out a fortune in the Cash Shop.
It's not about getting the best gear eventually, it's about getting the best gear before everyone leaves the game, so you can give them a reason to leave the game.
Ok, I will walk you through this.
High level crafter gear gives you the best gear in the game (best stats). So by crafting alone I can get better gear than anyone running GHA once my crafting is maxed out. You can get the best crafted gear through two ways, make it yourself or buy it. The cash shop allows you to max out faster which gives access to the best gear or it allows you to purchase APEX and sell for gold so you can buy the best gear.
Once I equip the crafted gear I have better stats than those not wearing top tier crafted gear.
Hence P2W.
So this is the whole crux of your argument?
Get the bow first and everyone will leave?
You peeps make me laugh! What if 5 guys with Epherium bows walk up behind you and wipe you out before you can ever quiver your first arrow?
As the PvP crowd likes to say, your tears will taste delicious.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Bones is using the Chewbacca defense... there is no winning this argument.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwdba9C2G14
I came to AA from Darkfall, dude, you can't even kill me and take my gear! LOL!
And if you bring 5 guys, I will bring 25 guys decked out in Delph and toughness gems, your Eph gear will not even scratch us. And you know it. Bringing imaginary zergs, and imaginary ambushes into this, is not a persuasive argument.
Oh, and you nock an arrow, not 'quiver' it. :P
And you think that explains it?
Better read your post again.
And once the other guy equips his.....? What happens then? You tie? And then run to spend more money? Only to be tied? again?
Until you can point to where you have spent money and have an unbeatable advantage over someone who does not spend, then you have no argument.
And you never will, as long as the best crafted gear is available to any player regardless of whether they pay or not. When you can make that statement I will agree with you.
Time is irrelevant in a game that has no endpoint.
But you may continue to have your delusions that it is.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
This has turned out to be the best thread in months, thanks OP, and thanks guys, but I need to fetch my mornin' coffee now. BRB
Lol, thanks for correcting me. I am not an archery expert.
Oh and thanks for also proving my statement correct. Lol
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Maybe he likes the taste of Ewoks?
Anyway you still have not given a reasonable explanation or definition of pay to win. You say time. Many many people disagree on this.
You have your delusions and we have ours.
Lets end it here.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
This game offers nothing new, apart from being able to call yourself captain of few nameless heroes.
PRO:
- Huge open world
- Naval Warfare*
- Free to play. .with some restrictions
- Level 0 to 3x (prior Zone Halucyna?) solid pace
CON:
- boring traderuns, slow as.... does not matter if you carry stones or bananas around, will take you the same time to reach point B
- a CryEngine 3? game with probably the worst graphics, dunno why they went with CE3 and not something more affordable like (i presume) CE1 or CE2 or any other renderer out therefor that matter.
- 120 classes of which only 10 - 20 are viable any given situation
- zerg fest
- ugly graphics even at 1080p and beyond
- glitchty as hell! Randome crashes, no visuals, black screens
- Korean samples still in game ($150)
- redundant conflict scenario between the 2 factions
- open world pvp only on sea 99% of the time, the other zones/contintent are limited to few areas
- Guild PvP Game< must be in a guild or play with buddies
- questing ... is possible
- Level 30 to 50 ... "grinding quests" for XP going to be a painful experience
- some day it runs for 2h straight, the next one it will CTD few times in a row
- Conflict/Story between the 2 factions being at war is pointless, you quest in enemy territory all the time prior level 30
- No Land even for those that pay
- terrible community on most of the servers
- Naval WarFare gets boring after 3 months of playing a pirate*
- leveled up an abolisher to 35, blighter to 28, stone arrow to 38, 2x defiler (US, EU) 13 and 22 resp... neither managed to keep me going on, same rotation over and over again.
- more than once, you gotta put skills back in yout skillbar after logging in (same with disabled cloaks, every 2nd or 3rd day i have to disable the cloak)
- no skillbar "lock"
- sometimes some skill can´t be used for some reason (defence shield (blue one after the initial stun skill) even if the skill is of CD..)
.... for those seeking a new game to try out AA will certainly be able to satisfy your hunger. But for the 100% experience you gotta sub, that simple.
Your argument would hold true a year from now, perhaps even 6 months but not now.
There's no player out there rocking full celestial armor and an epic weapon that didn't buy it through some sort of real life money transaction. There will be eventually, but there simply hasn't been enough time to get there legitimately yet.
If you don't want to use the words 'Pay-to-win', that's fine but it's still 'Pay-for-temporary-advantage' which is just as bad.
Most your "cons" are laughable and make it seem that you really struggling to put as much in there as you possibly could to prove your point. I could do the same thing with pros. Thanks for your "opinion" though.
The point of this post wasn't to say that AA is a bad game, it's not. I was simply saying that AA is rather mediocre in most areas and that if someone is particularly fond of a specific aspect of a game (i.e. PvE, PVP, etc) there are other games out there that do it much better.
As far as the P2W thing goes. Any game that has a cash shop with anything more than vanity items (i.e. non combat pets, mounts, costumes, etc) is P2W on some level. When real money spent outside of the game can influence any type of progression inside the game it's P2W, it's just that simple.
In a competitive game where no one will ever hit the cap of best-gear (thus, the gear race is never ending) and there are hard-set limits on you if you don't pay (labor points) no matter how skilled you are, how committed to the game you are, and how much you actually play the game, Pay to Advance is Pay to Win.
You can be the smartest most awesome skilled person in the world, but you are still capped by labor points. Paying exceeds this cap.
Pay-to-Advance is generally not (or at least, far less) pay to win in a system where your dedicaiton and gameplay is not capped, and in a system where everyone hits the finish line eventually (best gear). In AA, no one will ever hit the finish line (and by the time anyone comes close, they'll just release a content update that extends that finish line farther by introducing new top gear). Thus, anyone who's paid to advance will have an advantage when it comes to being farther along this never ending race, and thus will have an advantage in all the associated competitive aspects with it (open world PvP, castle sieges of which further victory will also aid them in getting even stronger than others, and arena matches, etc)
Tons of people are tricked into thinking it isn't pay-to-win That's why the business model is so successful and why so many games other than Archeage have "pay to advance" systems in a labor point style game. By having a labor/energy/stamina system to cover up the pay-to-win aspects, companies can encourage whales to pay them to win without anyone else realizing that's the case (and thus still playing, providing fodder for the whales and maybe giving some cash of their own) until they've already become so committed to the game that it's hard to turn back.
Assuming they realize it in the first place. I've played so many games where the cashers were completely owning everyone else and they were never the wiser because paying for more labor/energy/stamina points wasn't "pay-to-win" in their eyes.