Review score looks about right to me, for a change. I don't usually agree with scores here but this once seems fairly accurate for once.
Although, having tried AA myself I have to ask, where are the so called sandbox elements? Housing, Farming, Trade runs, Player economy etc, while being game features don't define the game as a sandbox. That's more to do with implementation and freedom for the player to do things. Sorry, but I don't see any sandbox in this themepark.
Review score looks about right to me, for a change. I don't usually agree with scores here but this once seems fairly accurate for once.
Although, having tried AA myself I have to ask, where are the so called sandbox elements? Housing, Farming, Trade runs, Player economy etc, while being game features don't define the game as a sandbox. That's more to do with implementation and freedom for the player to do things. Sorry, but I don't see any sandbox in this themepark.
The problem is various people have different definitions of sandbox. Some people define sandbox as "pure freedom" (or rather, "more freedom". There will never be 100% pure freedom for obvious reasons). Other people define it as "lots of options". Others define it as "make your own fun". And finally others define it as "make your own world".
Technically, the latter is closest to a sand box in real life. In a real life sand box, you have the freedom, the options, and you make your own fun, but the defining trait is that you use the sand to create things. But it's all semantic anyways. When people refer to Archeage as a sand park (theme park with sand box elements), they presumably are just referring to the first three options, because the "Make your own world" part is woefully absent. You can rake them over the coals saying "That's not a true sandbox!" but... honestly, again, it's kinda just arguing over semantics
Then again, it's not completely pointless to argue about such things, because every once in a while you get people who THINK Archeage lets you build the world, in which case it's important to tell them that no, it doesn't. It may have the first three sand box items (freedom, options, making the fun is more up to you than the game) but the ability to shape the world is generally not there. Yes, you can place a house, but the options with placing it and the things you can do with it leave much to be desired compared to say, UO or SWG where people put up player-made towns and bars, etc.
I'd also note that Item #3, "Make your own fun" is not always a good thing. One negative corrollary to item #3 is that it can sometimes start with "You have to" ("make your own fun") "Because the game is boring as hell on its own". In AA's case, one of the reasons you go out to PvP with others (and thus, "make your own fun") is because the end-game PvE so terrible as to be pretty much nonexistant for most people.
I'd also note that most of the "freedom" and "lots of options" eventually ends with "PvP" in most cases. Lots of people sometimes mistakingly think they can be a crafter/shipper/farmer forever and enjoy that, but the game's most meaty gameplay is really the PvP that all of those things feed into, so anyone who isn't into PvP usually find out that, without it, the crafting/sailing/farming gets tedious as hell.
End result: It's a sandbox if you define sand box as "lots of freedom" and "lots of options" and "It's up to you to make your own fun" while not minding that the meaty conclusion to it all is "PvP". Sadly too many people end up thinking/seeing just "sandbox" and think they'll actually like, be able to do some significant roleplay+gameplay as a farmer or mayor or ship builder or tavern owner or policeman or adventuring slayer of monsters or something. (most things related to PvP is an option at least, like Pirate, Bandit, or Soldier. Not Policeman or Bounty Hunter, though. There is no meaningful justice system here)
Bill thank you for a very fair and balanced review. One thing to point out though, you were never in Auroria this continent has not been opened up to the players yet.
I too had a very similar experience to yours. I played well over 100 hours in the game and had some fun times. I was involved in a crafting guild from the start, but crafting became so monotonous that I just gave up and let others in the guild do that. I partook in guild PvP battles and diplomacy, but in the end I stopped playing because there just wasn't enough good stuff to keep me entertained.
It's just a very boring game imo. It was fun when it was all new though, but once the reality of the grinding required to level more skill trees to 50 and leveling cooking sunk in, I lost all will to login.
Paid for 1 month of patron (that got cut a week short due to it taking a week to activate), and never had enough gold for APEX. Even if I did keep patron it wouldnt matter cause there was no more land.
Prices on AH were outrageous, and the botting and hacks made for a very uneven playing field.
Leveling only takes a few days if you play a lot. Then it's pretty much a pvp sandbox.
Problem with that is there's so many advantages to zerging everything that a zerg guild has pretty much everything on lockdown on my server.
So I can't really play that part of the game. Leaving me with lackluster dungeons (1 currently to be specific) and farming/trade runs, which gets old fast, especially since the whole point of getting gear is to pvp in this game, but it doesn't matter if you're always 5to1.
I wish they would've restricted the guild size and instant travel options so smaller guilds (and my 300 man guild is small compared to the 1k+ zerg guild on my server) would have a chance.
Funniest thing is I've been waiting for a sandboxy pvp MMO just like this for years. But the reality of it (basically not being able to play because the odds are always impossible) has made me go back to Rift and I'm now d/ling ffxiv. At least in a themepark I'll be able to play all of the content regardless of how big my guild is.
Bill why don't you just write about games you really enjoy? Don't be such a hater.
ANyway I thought according to the scoring around here, 7+ is rather good, where as 80+ is really good. Few score in the 9's...
Reviewers are supposed to write about games whether they like them or not. That's part of the whole point of a review (to tell someone if they liked a game or not, and why), and it's even more pronounced if reviewing is that person's job.
Besides, if you'd actually read the "Review in Progress" articles he wrote (and linked to at the start of his review), you'd (hopefully) notice that he DID like the game at first (even if he acknowledged it wasn't perfect even back then).
Then again, LOTS of people liked Archeage "at first". Given that the reviewer had to spend an additional 50+ hours (he mentions "50 hours" in his review in progress, then "100 hours" in his final review) to come to his final opinion, one which apparently became more negative as time went on, I think he's doing a LOT of people a favor and possibly saving them 50 hours of their own time before they potentially come to the same conclusion.
MMOs are time-consumming beasts. If a person can say "Yea, you'll like the first 50 hours, but it kinda wears on you after a while", they're being nice enough to let others know, not "being a hater". Besides, sometimes people hate things, and sometimes there's a reason they do. Bill was rather explicit in his review in pointing out his own reasons for "not adoring the game like a squeeling school girl" (honestly, the review wasn't even THAT negative and gave the game a 7+ yet he's still called a hater. *eyeroll*
(although I do admit I'm not completely sure how serious you were about that "Don't be a hater" remark. It's possible you're joking. Sarcasm can be hard to pick up in text sometimes)
Im an Archeum Patron and i only managed to get the smallest farm there is a few hours after headstart opened...
Now there is no place to put my larger farm...neither a small house.... ALL land is taken,Lots of hackers are using "grabland hacks" so there is no chance of getting a plot when demolished or abbandoned...no one is selling or they go for ridiculous amounts of gold and there is A LOT of scams going around when trading for land plots...
When my time as Patron runs out i will not be resubbing...
Why would i like to be a Patron if a cannot own land?? That´s mainly the purpose of Patronage...
I think they´ll be losing a lot of subs just because of this.
And NO,i´m no crying.....i´m just losing interest... AA is a very mediocre game when you have no lands to farm or houses.
More land makes the game worse, not better.
I log in, mow the lawn, take out the trash, haul some junk to some pointless location, have to wait 22 hours to get my gold...
The game is very ho-hum. A chore simulator, as if I don't have enough of that to do around the house IRL.
I found EvE to be interesting, grindy, but engaging. Darkfall, the original game (RIP), was either thrilling, or a hair pulling frustrating grind. AA is ho-hum, with an eternal gear grind worse than DFO. The redeeming feature of AA, is that it has so many activities, so much you can do, if you find any of it fun, which I don't.
The problem of everyone above is their singleplayer-in-a-crowd (aka WoW) mentality. This game is not about your progrsssion its about how powerful as a team (guild/alliance) you can become.
Similar game but made by wester company and of course far more polished and beter class/combat design would be prety close to my ideal MMO.
Another poster mentioned that it is almost impossible to get land beyond the very small starting farm. I let my sub lapse for that very reason. The land ownership idea is great but it is so poorly implemented that is becomes a huge frustration. There are obvious cheats being used to get land (anyone who has played knows what I mean). On top of that, players can place structures anywhere and a great deal of space is completely wasted. The greatest draw of this game is completely broken. The rest of it is your standard MMO fare.
"You’d think a game that’s now years old in Korea would launch with a smoother client experience in the West. This isn’t the case. From bots to cheats, texture popping to data packet security, XLGAMES did not give the West a polished product"
This is the oddest thing to me, after years of development the game has issues like bots, cheats and problematic security. This leads the land grabbing hacks that make being a subscriber pointless. If a game is going to be a success these issues should have been sorted out. They plague every MMO at launch, but years down the line they become inexcusable.
The problem of everyone above is their singleplayer-in-a-crowd (aka WoW) mentality. This game is not about your progrsssion its about how powerful as a team (guild/alliance) you can become.
Westerners generally are too self-absorbed to group in any way that's truly effective. That's why games like this escape them.
The problem of everyone above is their singleplayer-in-a-crowd (aka WoW) mentality. This game is not about your progrsssion its about how powerful as a team (guild/alliance) you can become.
Similar game but made by wester company and of course far more polished and beter class/combat design would be prety close to my ideal MMO.
Actually, the game is a progression game. It's just that the method you use to progress is a bit different (grouping with others to craft and PvP in order to get better gear instead of grouping with others to raid in order to get better gear. Though most MMOs that are not Wildstar find more casual avenues of fighting monsters to get better gear too, of course). When most people join a guild, they do so for the sake of their own progression (IE, resources and labor points as a group to get better gear, strength in numbers to win zerg battles to get resources for better gear, etc. Castle sieges get you tax gold to use to get better gear, etc).
Many people tried the PvP and crafting and found that, honestly, constantly zerging others, running across large stretches of land playing paper-boy with tradepacks, and literally watching grass grow to get materials to then just point and click to make randomly generated items is a lot more boring than fighting monsters (either alongside a team of other people in a raid or small party or solo)
If anything, another major problem for the game is that, like Wildstar, you're FORCED to group to progress in any meaningful way. Again, you're just grouping to PvP and craft instead of to raid, and there's nothing for the solo player here. Given how well that worked for Wildstar, it's no wonder the game's only niche at best in other regions.
I played Alpha, and it was great. Problem is... Land is virtually impossible to get. And AA is all about owning land... So if you're starting late, I would say don't bother. You will be frustrated, landless, and dissapointed.
Requesting a RE review . Put some realy MMORPG vet on this title please who understands to honer ALL the features Archeage offers and put that in perspective to what litle generic so called "MMORPG's" offer.
Archeage gameplay is the only MMORPG desrving a 10 in gameplay.
they promised no grind and no PvE. well I got a job and I am not looking for a second job when I need to farm my house and grind top gear or I would lose against someone that gear 24/7 and then bring pro gear to win.
a lackluster review. Disappointing in giving gameplay just 7.
Archeage is the only MMORPG in the market thats worth being called MMORPG.
Its at least a 9.
This game gets a 9? Really? Based on what? Good concepts that were poorly implemented and over monetized?
I can understand that you enjoy the game and that it really appeals to you. But have you looked at the legitimate complaints players are posting?
No land
Hacks
Cheats
Bots
Pay2something (I really don't care what to call it but there are advantages to be had with real money)
These are major issues that should have been corrected long before this game launched in the West and certainly account for some serious deductions in rating scores.
a lackluster review. Disappointing in giving gameplay just 7.
Archeage is the only MMORPG in the market thats worth being called MMORPG.
Its at least a 9.
This game gets a 9? Really? Based on what? Good concepts that were poorly implemented and over monetized?
I can understand that you enjoy the game and that it really appeals to you. But have you looked at the legitimate complaints players are posting?
No land
Hacks
Cheats
Bots
Pay2something (I really don't care what to call it but there are advantages to be had with real money)
These are major issues that should have been corrected long before this game launched in the West and certainly account for some serious deductions in rating scores.
my understand is he means the 9 is related to "Gameplay".
Like i mentioned befor in a replie, Gameplay in AA diserve more then a 7.
a lackluster review. Disappointing in giving gameplay just 7.
Archeage is the only MMORPG in the market thats worth being called MMORPG.
Its at least a 9.
This game gets a 9? Really? Based on what? Good concepts that were poorly implemented and over monetized?
I can understand that you enjoy the game and that it really appeals to you. But have you looked at the legitimate complaints players are posting?
No land
Hacks
Cheats
Bots
Pay2something (I really don't care what to call it but there are advantages to be had with real money)
These are major issues that should have been corrected long before this game launched in the West and certainly account for some serious deductions in rating scores.
my understand is he means the 9 is related to "Gameplay".
Like i mentioned befor in a replie, Gameplay in AA diserve more then a 7.
Well, OK, so it's one topic, I did misread that. Not saying I agree it should get a 9, Just saying I misunderstood the post.
Requesting a RE review . Put some realy MMORPG vet on this title please who understands to honer ALL the features Archeage offers and put that in perspective to what litle generic so called "MMORPG's" offer.
Archeage gameplay is the only MMORPG desrving a 10 in gameplay.
Bill is an MMORPG vet who has played and reviewed many other MMOs in the past. In addition, this review itself was already delayed several months because he wanted to play the game enough to make sure he "experienced all the features Archeage had to offer" (if anything, if you look at his "Review in progress" columns that he linked at the start of his review and compare it to the final review, experiencing the rest of AA's features apparently just revealed that Archeage experience just got worse for him after the honeymoon period ended)
Also, even though he didn't delve into the socialization aspects as much as he maybe could have (in his defense, a reviewer doesn't usually have much time to develop social networks just for a game they're reviewing), he did explicitly say he was "in a guild that I really loved" (or something like that) so he did at least experience the game from a grouped-up perspective (which is important when you consider that soloing in Archeage becomes an uphill battle later on).
Maybe it's a 10 in gameplay for you, but it clearly wasn't for Bill and the large numbers of people agreeing with him in this thread. If a person wants to decide for themselves, they can ignore Bill's numbers and just read his words (not necessarily having to trust them), and take it from there
Great review, in fact I feel the same way, also the end game pvp is such a mess I was hoping for more faction vs faction organized mechanics Ala AION, alas not happening, your own faction is as likely to gank you as the enemy faction. In the end i got board of spending hours tending my farm and running packs for what felt like no real reward, more like maintenance it's all about maintence with Archeage and that is just not fun. I'm actually going to try returning as a FTP player just for some large scale pvp once in a while and to keep track of changes.
(PS i have no idea why this comment box is so long, every time I try to edit to fix it it gets longer so I give up lol!)
Comments
Review score looks about right to me, for a change. I don't usually agree with scores here but this once seems fairly accurate for once.
Although, having tried AA myself I have to ask, where are the so called sandbox elements? Housing, Farming, Trade runs, Player economy etc, while being game features don't define the game as a sandbox. That's more to do with implementation and freedom for the player to do things. Sorry, but I don't see any sandbox in this themepark.
The problem is various people have different definitions of sandbox. Some people define sandbox as "pure freedom" (or rather, "more freedom". There will never be 100% pure freedom for obvious reasons). Other people define it as "lots of options". Others define it as "make your own fun". And finally others define it as "make your own world".
Technically, the latter is closest to a sand box in real life. In a real life sand box, you have the freedom, the options, and you make your own fun, but the defining trait is that you use the sand to create things. But it's all semantic anyways. When people refer to Archeage as a sand park (theme park with sand box elements), they presumably are just referring to the first three options, because the "Make your own world" part is woefully absent. You can rake them over the coals saying "That's not a true sandbox!" but... honestly, again, it's kinda just arguing over semantics
Then again, it's not completely pointless to argue about such things, because every once in a while you get people who THINK Archeage lets you build the world, in which case it's important to tell them that no, it doesn't. It may have the first three sand box items (freedom, options, making the fun is more up to you than the game) but the ability to shape the world is generally not there. Yes, you can place a house, but the options with placing it and the things you can do with it leave much to be desired compared to say, UO or SWG where people put up player-made towns and bars, etc.
I'd also note that Item #3, "Make your own fun" is not always a good thing. One negative corrollary to item #3 is that it can sometimes start with "You have to" ("make your own fun") "Because the game is boring as hell on its own". In AA's case, one of the reasons you go out to PvP with others (and thus, "make your own fun") is because the end-game PvE so terrible as to be pretty much nonexistant for most people.
I'd also note that most of the "freedom" and "lots of options" eventually ends with "PvP" in most cases. Lots of people sometimes mistakingly think they can be a crafter/shipper/farmer forever and enjoy that, but the game's most meaty gameplay is really the PvP that all of those things feed into, so anyone who isn't into PvP usually find out that, without it, the crafting/sailing/farming gets tedious as hell.
End result: It's a sandbox if you define sand box as "lots of freedom" and "lots of options" and "It's up to you to make your own fun" while not minding that the meaty conclusion to it all is "PvP". Sadly too many people end up thinking/seeing just "sandbox" and think they'll actually like, be able to do some significant roleplay+gameplay as a farmer or mayor or ship builder or tavern owner or policeman or adventuring slayer of monsters or something. (most things related to PvP is an option at least, like Pirate, Bandit, or Soldier. Not Policeman or Bounty Hunter, though. There is no meaningful justice system here)
Point #2... IT'S A GAME. So yeah, I'd give no more than ia 2/10 for that alone - who wants to play a recreational game that is not fun?
Bill thank you for a very fair and balanced review. One thing to point out though, you were never in Auroria this continent has not been opened up to the players yet.
I too had a very similar experience to yours. I played well over 100 hours in the game and had some fun times. I was involved in a crafting guild from the start, but crafting became so monotonous that I just gave up and let others in the guild do that. I partook in guild PvP battles and diplomacy, but in the end I stopped playing because there just wasn't enough good stuff to keep me entertained.
I agree. I tried to like this game but it didn't do it for me. For those that enjoy it; more power to you.
Seaspite
Playing ESO on my X-Box
It's just a very boring game imo. It was fun when it was all new though, but once the reality of the grinding required to level more skill trees to 50 and leveling cooking sunk in, I lost all will to login.
Paid for 1 month of patron (that got cut a week short due to it taking a week to activate), and never had enough gold for APEX. Even if I did keep patron it wouldnt matter cause there was no more land.
Prices on AH were outrageous, and the botting and hacks made for a very uneven playing field.
Not a game for me
Leveling only takes a few days if you play a lot. Then it's pretty much a pvp sandbox.
Problem with that is there's so many advantages to zerging everything that a zerg guild has pretty much everything on lockdown on my server.
So I can't really play that part of the game. Leaving me with lackluster dungeons (1 currently to be specific) and farming/trade runs, which gets old fast, especially since the whole point of getting gear is to pvp in this game, but it doesn't matter if you're always 5to1.
I wish they would've restricted the guild size and instant travel options so smaller guilds (and my 300 man guild is small compared to the 1k+ zerg guild on my server) would have a chance.
Funniest thing is I've been waiting for a sandboxy pvp MMO just like this for years. But the reality of it (basically not being able to play because the odds are always impossible) has made me go back to Rift and I'm now d/ling ffxiv. At least in a themepark I'll be able to play all of the content regardless of how big my guild is.
WOOOOOSSSSHHHHH
hehe
More land makes the game worse, not better.
I log in, mow the lawn, take out the trash, haul some junk to some pointless location, have to wait 22 hours to get my gold...
The game is very ho-hum. A chore simulator, as if I don't have enough of that to do around the house IRL.
I found EvE to be interesting, grindy, but engaging. Darkfall, the original game (RIP), was either thrilling, or a hair pulling frustrating grind. AA is ho-hum, with an eternal gear grind worse than DFO. The redeeming feature of AA, is that it has so many activities, so much you can do, if you find any of it fun, which I don't.
The problem of everyone above is their singleplayer-in-a-crowd (aka WoW) mentality. This game is not about your progrsssion its about how powerful as a team (guild/alliance) you can become.
Similar game but made by wester company and of course far more polished and beter class/combat design would be prety close to my ideal MMO.
"You’d think a game that’s now years old in Korea would launch with a smoother client experience in the West. This isn’t the case. From bots to cheats, texture popping to data packet security, XLGAMES did not give the West a polished product"
This is the oddest thing to me, after years of development the game has issues like bots, cheats and problematic security. This leads the land grabbing hacks that make being a subscriber pointless. If a game is going to be a success these issues should have been sorted out. They plague every MMO at launch, but years down the line they become inexcusable.
Westerners generally are too self-absorbed to group in any way that's truly effective. That's why games like this escape them.
Actually, the game is a progression game. It's just that the method you use to progress is a bit different (grouping with others to craft and PvP in order to get better gear instead of grouping with others to raid in order to get better gear. Though most MMOs that are not Wildstar find more casual avenues of fighting monsters to get better gear too, of course). When most people join a guild, they do so for the sake of their own progression (IE, resources and labor points as a group to get better gear, strength in numbers to win zerg battles to get resources for better gear, etc. Castle sieges get you tax gold to use to get better gear, etc).
Many people tried the PvP and crafting and found that, honestly, constantly zerging others, running across large stretches of land playing paper-boy with tradepacks, and literally watching grass grow to get materials to then just point and click to make randomly generated items is a lot more boring than fighting monsters (either alongside a team of other people in a raid or small party or solo)
If anything, another major problem for the game is that, like Wildstar, you're FORCED to group to progress in any meaningful way. Again, you're just grouping to PvP and craft instead of to raid, and there's nothing for the solo player here. Given how well that worked for Wildstar, it's no wonder the game's only niche at best in other regions.
a lackluster review. Disappointing in giving gameplay just 7.
Archeage is the only MMORPG in the market thats worth being called MMORPG.
Its at least a 9.
Sadly enough Ultima Online even in it's current state is still a better game then AA. You want Sandbox you should probably look back 16 years.
Requesting a RE review . Put some realy MMORPG vet on this title please who understands to honer ALL the features Archeage offers and put that in perspective to what litle generic so called "MMORPG's" offer.
Archeage gameplay is the only MMORPG desrving a 10 in gameplay.
on the same time ..MMORG failures like SW TOR get 8,7 LOL
MMORPG.com..someone would have thought a site with that name would understand MMORPG's. LOL
they promised no grind and no PvE. well I got a job and I am not looking for a second job when I need to farm my house and grind top gear or I would lose against someone that gear 24/7 and then bring pro gear to win.
the game is fail. a lot peoples leaving.
This game gets a 9? Really? Based on what? Good concepts that were poorly implemented and over monetized?
I can understand that you enjoy the game and that it really appeals to you. But have you looked at the legitimate complaints players are posting?
No land
Hacks
Cheats
Bots
Pay2something (I really don't care what to call it but there are advantages to be had with real money)
These are major issues that should have been corrected long before this game launched in the West and certainly account for some serious deductions in rating scores.
my understand is he means the 9 is related to "Gameplay".
Like i mentioned befor in a replie, Gameplay in AA diserve more then a 7.
Well, OK, so it's one topic, I did misread that. Not saying I agree it should get a 9, Just saying I misunderstood the post.
Bill is an MMORPG vet who has played and reviewed many other MMOs in the past. In addition, this review itself was already delayed several months because he wanted to play the game enough to make sure he "experienced all the features Archeage had to offer" (if anything, if you look at his "Review in progress" columns that he linked at the start of his review and compare it to the final review, experiencing the rest of AA's features apparently just revealed that Archeage experience just got worse for him after the honeymoon period ended)
Also, even though he didn't delve into the socialization aspects as much as he maybe could have (in his defense, a reviewer doesn't usually have much time to develop social networks just for a game they're reviewing), he did explicitly say he was "in a guild that I really loved" (or something like that) so he did at least experience the game from a grouped-up perspective (which is important when you consider that soloing in Archeage becomes an uphill battle later on).
Maybe it's a 10 in gameplay for you, but it clearly wasn't for Bill and the large numbers of people agreeing with him in this thread. If a person wants to decide for themselves, they can ignore Bill's numbers and just read his words (not necessarily having to trust them), and take it from there
Great review, in fact I feel the same way, also the end game pvp is such a mess I was hoping for more faction vs faction organized mechanics Ala AION, alas not happening, your own faction is as likely to gank you as the enemy faction. In the end i got board of spending hours tending my farm and running packs for what felt like no real reward, more like maintenance it's all about maintence with Archeage and that is just not fun. I'm actually going to try returning as a FTP player just for some large scale pvp once in a while and to keep track of changes.
(PS i have no idea why this comment box is so long, every time I try to edit to fix it it gets longer so I give up lol!)