Originally posted by ArchlyteThe parsing is at its finest in threads about EQN graphics. The current images are stupid looking, they need to make them less childish and simple.It's not about what came before, or what will save them money in 2019 because the same shit graphics still look like shit so they don't have to be upgraded.It's about making the game look as good as some of its design features sound.
That's why i started the thread, Provide alternative examples of how it should be.Just saying its crap and childish doesnt convey what you want it to look like.
What adjectives would you like me to use then? It looks like a child's movie, and it's a crap choice for a game that kids will not be playing in any large numbers. There have been many threads detailing exactly what is wrong with the graphics. If you don't know what I'm saying just look at my avatar, I designed it just for this topic.
Your still describing what you believe is wrong, I want to know what you think is right
As for examples, Post some concept art or screenshots of other games as a guide to how you believe EQN should be modeled?
They could simply do a clean up of the existing models by reducing the size of facial features in relation to the body, and changing armor and items to be more proportioned.
Getting rid of the hominid posture and the bowed legs would be nice too. The characters look like monkeys who have makeup on them to masquerade as humans.
This amount of revamp won't happen, and it's the easiest fix I think. Because of that, speculating on more dramatic fixes seems somewhat fantastic to me.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Why do people continuously make the assumption that stylized = cartoony.
All stylized means is not realistic.
This is a fantastic point. Almost any of the Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings armor and weapons are stylized.
There is a rather large difference between the images you posted and:
Sure but point still stands you can have stylized realistic and stylized cartoons. (edit: by stylized realistic I mean fantasy armor in tv/movies with a specific style, e.g. Game of Thrones/Lord of the Rings that can then translate to a video game)
I'll throw these in as well because it's obvious:
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
They could simply do a clean up of the existing models by reducing the size of facial features in relation to the body, and changing armor and items to be more proportioned.
Getting rid of the hominid posture and the bowed legs would be nice too. The characters look like monkeys who have makeup on them to masquerade as humans.
The facial features will most likely be part of character creation. Doubt everyone is going to have to have giant sized eyes, it helps with emotion and what not, but if someone wants to look like the sun is always in their eyes, why not. I think the faces looking like they've been given the magazine cover photoshop treatment is what makes it stand out so much.
As they add to Landmark, starting to see gear and character models develop more. While nothing has changed drastically over the last year, the details and quality have improved.
Sure but point still stands you can have stylized realistic and stylized cartoons. (edit: by stylized realistic I mean fantasy armor in tv/movies with a specific style, e.g. Game of Thrones/Lord of the Rings that can then translate to a video game)
Yes but since the game we're discussing by all indications is going for a cartoony look "stylized realism" is kind of irrelevant to this discussion
They could simply do a clean up of the existing models by reducing the size of facial features in relation to the body, and changing armor and items to be more proportioned.
Getting rid of the hominid posture and the bowed legs would be nice too. The characters look like monkeys who have makeup on them to masquerade as humans.
The facial features will most likely be part of character creation. Doubt everyone is going to have to have giant sized eyes, it helps with emotion and what not, but if someone wants to look like the sun is always in their eyes, why not. I think the faces looking like they've been given the magazine cover photoshop treatment is what makes it stand out so much.
As they add to Landmark, starting to see gear and character models develop more. While nothing has changed drastically over the last year, the details and quality have improved.
I don't know Allein, It's pretty hard to make that leap from what is actually in Landmark now to what I would consider an acceptable amount of cleaning up the models. I will be amazed if they allow you to manipulate the sliders enough to make a realistic looking character. Even if they do, notice that the items have the same oversized dimensions as when Mickey Mouse interacts with items (Broom handle 4" diameter).
If you know something that I don't about a change in attitude toward the art design by the dev team, please share.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Originally posted by Dullahan You know a game is vapor status when people are still rehashing the same discussions we had summer 2013.
Good point.. SOE Live 2014 really didn't give us anything new.. Oh sure they tossed out some mini snacks that even a mouse would eyeroll over.. From a scale of 1-10.. Ten being "launch day", this past year it feels we moved from 2.3 to 2.9.. ZZzzzzzzz Is that all the faster this train is going?
Originally posted by Dullahan You know a game is vapor status when people are still rehashing the same discussions we had summer 2013.
Good point.. SOE Live 2014 really didn't give us anything new.. Oh sure they tossed out some mini snacks that even a mouse would eyeroll over.. From a scale of 1-10.. Ten being "launch day", this past year it feels we moved from 2.3 to 2.9.. ZZzzzzzzz Is that all the faster this train is going?
I hope they release it next week, then we can all complain how it was rushed out the door and not finished like the majority of games. How dare a company actually take time developing their product.
They could simply do a clean up of the existing models by reducing the size of facial features in relation to the body, and changing armor and items to be more proportioned.
Getting rid of the hominid posture and the bowed legs would be nice too. The characters look like monkeys who have makeup on them to masquerade as humans.
The facial features will most likely be part of character creation. Doubt everyone is going to have to have giant sized eyes, it helps with emotion and what not, but if someone wants to look like the sun is always in their eyes, why not. I think the faces looking like they've been given the magazine cover photoshop treatment is what makes it stand out so much.
As they add to Landmark, starting to see gear and character models develop more. While nothing has changed drastically over the last year, the details and quality have improved.
I don't know Allein, It's pretty hard to make that leap from what is actually in Landmark now to what I would consider an acceptable amount of cleaning up the models. I will be amazed if they allow you to manipulate the sliders enough to make a realistic looking character. Even if they do, notice that the items have the same oversized dimensions as when Mickey Mouse interacts with items (Broom handle 4" diameter).
If you know something that I don't about a change in attitude toward the art design by the dev team, please share.
EQN is heavily stylized, there is no getting away from that. The dimensions are also part of the design foundation with all the "heroic" stuff. EQ, EQ2, EQOA and any updated models they have had over the years are all stylized toward the cartoony end of the spectrum, despite those that think they are "realistic" but limited by the tech of the time. Same art lead for most of it and to me, it shows through into EQN. I think EQ's early models weren't as stylized as the following games due to the tech limits and they just ended up looking a little less unrealistic. Looking at the mobs, spell animations, and other not character models, lots of over the top stuff going on.
I linked some pics of the new gear in Landmark above. Remove the head and the armor/bodies look good within the context of a stylized "heroic" game. The faces simply lack character. Not sure if this is because of how SOEmote or the animations work or what, but the faces just don't have enough shading or imperfections, someone is happy to use the smoothing tool.
I think some of you are looking for Gloria Victis or Shroud of the Avatar style art and that simply isn't EQN or the franchise as a whole. While the early games have fallen into the WoW domain in some cases, from what has been added to Landmark, they aren't going that far with EQN.
Game is still early in development. I've never seen a game's pre-alpha models match exactly with the finished product. While Landmark/EQN have comparable to better quality to some recently released games, it still has plenty of time for changes/improvements. They are adding in "Large Humans" to Landmark some what soon. They've also updated the customization of the models since Landmark's launch. I'm going to just take a guess that they haven't stamped them as 100% complete.
Even poor Tony was said to have been a very early model, if you look closely, you'll notice the lion king is missing a lot of detail. Although they've since shown quite different concept art and I'm guessing we won't see Tony again as he was, but the Kerrans will still look like a distinct race model.
I agree that you'll probably not be able to make a "realistic" looking character. This isn't a realistic game/franchise. EQ isn't Elder Scrolls or Lord of the Rings or insert random brown colored games. This isn't a game where every race is going to have the same body with a different head attached. They want everything to pop and while it might not be what some want, that is what it is.
They could simply do a clean up of the existing models by reducing the size of facial features in relation to the body, and changing armor and items to be more proportioned.
Getting rid of the hominid posture and the bowed legs would be nice too. The characters look like monkeys who have makeup on them to masquerade as humans.
The facial features will most likely be part of character creation. Doubt everyone is going to have to have giant sized eyes, it helps with emotion and what not, but if someone wants to look like the sun is always in their eyes, why not. I think the faces looking like they've been given the magazine cover photoshop treatment is what makes it stand out so much.
As they add to Landmark, starting to see gear and character models develop more. While nothing has changed drastically over the last year, the details and quality have improved.
I don't know Allein, It's pretty hard to make that leap from what is actually in Landmark now to what I would consider an acceptable amount of cleaning up the models. I will be amazed if they allow you to manipulate the sliders enough to make a realistic looking character. Even if they do, notice that the items have the same oversized dimensions as when Mickey Mouse interacts with items (Broom handle 4" diameter).
If you know something that I don't about a change in attitude toward the art design by the dev team, please share.
EQN is heavily stylized, there is no getting away from that. The dimensions are also part of the design foundation with all the "heroic" stuff. EQ, EQ2, EQOA and any updated models they have had over the years are all stylized toward the cartoony end of the spectrum, despite those that think they are "realistic" but limited by the tech of the time. Same art lead for most of it and to me, it shows through into EQN. I think EQ's early models weren't as stylized as the following games due to the tech limits and they just ended up looking a little less unrealistic. Looking at the mobs, spell animations, and other not character models, lots of over the top stuff going on.
Wait, so you're seriously going to suggest that EQ2 was a very cartoony game... they just lacked the technology to make extremely cartoony characters 10 years ago?
So... that means WoW spent their massive budge on those cartoony characters but EQ2 with their much smaller budget couldn't afford cartoony characters?
WoW - I would say is more of artistic / stylized than cartoony.
EQN - Not art or stylized.
Warhammer Online - Stylized / realistic.
Lord of the Rings Online - Stylized / realistic.
EQN - Not stylized / realistic.
Free Realms - Cartoon.
EQN - Disney Cartoon.
EQN / Landmark is neither artistic , stylized or have any sort of realistic element thrown in like WHO or LoTRO. It is disney cartoon from the get go. Giant trees , giant chins , giant plants , giant noses , over exaggerated movements , vomit inducing particle effects..etc. The female character models arent nearly as bad as the male as they seem to have believable proportions and facial features.
WoW - I would say is more of artistic / stylized than cartoony.
EQN - Not art or stylized.
Warhammer Online - Stylized / realistic.
Lord of the Rings Online - Stylized / realistic.
EQN - Not stylized / realistic.
Free Realms - Cartoon.
EQN - Disney Cartoon.
EQN / Landmark is neither artistic , stylized or have any sort of realistic element thrown in like WHO or LoTRO. It is disney cartoon from the get go. Giant trees , giant chins , giant plants , giant noses , over exaggerated movements , vomit inducing particle effects..etc. The female character models arent nearly as bad as the male as they seem to have believable proportions and facial features.
That is what they should have kept!
[mod edit]
How are you defining sytlysied, artistic and the rest lol. and landmark sint even a mmo rpg.
Also wow and eq next have the same sort of character models, the difference being wow's are old as hell and look like ass in the current gen of gaming lol.
EQN is heavily stylized, there is no getting away from that. The dimensions are also part of the design foundation with all the "heroic" stuff. EQ, EQ2, EQOA and any updated models they have had over the years are all stylized toward the cartoony end of the spectrum, despite those that think they are "realistic" but limited by the tech of the time. Same art lead for most of it and to me, it shows through into EQN. I think EQ's early models weren't as stylized as the following games due to the tech limits and they just ended up looking a little less unrealistic. Looking at the mobs, spell animations, and other not character models, lots of over the top stuff going on.
Wait, so you're seriously going to suggest that EQ2 was a very cartoony game... they just lacked the technology to make extremely cartoony characters 10 years ago?
So... that means WoW spent their massive budge on those cartoony characters but EQ2 with their much smaller budget couldn't afford cartoony characters?
Obviously all the terms we are tossing around are subjective, but yes, the EQ franchise has always been a "cartoony" looking game to me. Which I think has contributed to its longevity and appeal to a decent variety of folks (more so after they took EQ in a different direction), not extremely different then WoW or the Warcraft franchise.
While maybe not as "cartoony" or stylized as WoW, EQ games have never looked like Elder Scrolls or LOTR type games to me. Or the brown colored generic fantasy genre as a whole. EQN does take it further for sure, but I like it myself and I'm sure others do/will. Too bad for those with very specific requirements for a game, but that's life. No game has ever been "perfect" for me personally.
EQ for the time and the hardware then was of realistic styling. I am not sure what you are trying to get at... And EQ2 has a doll like feel to the models it but still they went for realistic styling and they just chose the wrong CPU path to design the game around.
They are nowhere near what Landmark and EQN currently look like. They are going way to far with this whole " Heroic " non sense.
Again...
This is not photo realistic but it definitely has realistic styling and color without being a disney cartoon. Why they chose to go away from this style is mind boggling. The current characters offer nothing over what this would have and look way way way worse.
EQ for the time and the hardware then was of realistic styling. I am not sure what you are trying to get at... And EQ2 has a doll like feel to the models it but still they went for realistic styling and they just chose the wrong CPU path to design the game around.
They are nowhere near what Landmark and EQN currently look like. They are going way to far with this whole " Heroic " non sense.
Again...
This is not photo realistic but it definitely has realistic styling and color without being a disney cartoon. Why they chose to go away from this style is mind boggling. The current characters offer nothing over what this would have and look way way way worse.
Art is subjective. I'd argue that some of the other games of the time were more "realistic", but honestly all of them were pretty silly looking considering the tech and what not.
Saying the new models look worse is like saying Mario looks worse then Skyrim. Simple different styles. Might not be what you like, but it isn't "worse" simple because it isn't a particular look.
That guy looks great, no argument here. I also liked the early concept art that was more "cartoony" and I like the even never stuff. It all looks good relatively.
They said from the get go that they decided to not make EQ3 or just another game which that guy would of been a part of. I believe someone linked some of the early concept models that looked like other games out there with nothing setting them a part (there were animated vids but I think they are taken down by now). Take a look at Shroud of the Avatar, Pathfinder Online, Gloria Victis, etc. Zzzzzz. EQ3 would of fit right in there. The first pic of Gloria Victis could be DayZ Medieval Mod, nothing special at all. No one should confuse any of the other pics with other games.
The heroic design is the design they chose to go with. Along with voxels and the more stylized characters. Kind of hard to remove any one of them without messing up the overall vision.
Might not be what some want, but what game ever is? I've yet to see a game where everyone was just head over heels in love and had no issues. If so, this website probably wouldn't exist since it is more about complaining then anything. Albion Online and Shards sound very interesting to me, but guess what? I can't stand isometric clicky click games anymore. Pretty sure I'm not going to convince the devs to totally rethink their system because it doesn't fit into my ideal game.
I'm not trying to get at anything, simply believe the franchise as a whole has never been very "realistic" TO ME. Sucks for those that don't like it, but it is great for those that do. At this point, people can either get on board, hope it might be a bit different a launch, and creation will give some variation, or move on. A few grumbling on the internet isn't going to result in them scrapping the entire art style or any major design element.
Those still hoping SOE will wise up or change their minds are wasting their time. Not to say they couldn't make some changes here and there, but overall, it is what it is.
I might have been able to stomach the art style had they not totally gutted the entire core mechanics of the game. The class definition was distinct in that everyone played a class that had a role. As much as there were strong classes that filled more then one role, there was no "one guy does everything " class.
The direction of this game clearly shows they have decided to favor this lifeless husk of its former self as opposed to a more complex mechanic/class based system.
Obviously this is where the market is going as this genre becomes more popular, there are only so many intelligent gamer's out there... just like in the real word most people are below average intelligence which relates to the choices on games they make. I cant blame them, they are a business and businesses are in it to make money.
I just wish a game company would understand that a game that harkened back to the complex/ role setups of the past w/ new polished mechanics and graphics would become AT LEAST a solid competitor and generate more then enough money to be profitable. I cant even count how many times I've read on this site alone, " Man, I would play XXXXX forever if they remade the same game w/ new graphics."
Its a lot like the movie industry lately, I'm not a huge fan of most of the remakes... but the producers know that it will generate a profit because its a formula that was extremely effective in the past, regardless of times changing people are nostalgic. That does not mean they want you to plop a giant turd right on top of their favorite mmo's legacy.
Lets say for example, they decide to re-release one of your favorite classic movies... with new special effects and redone visuals. How would you feel if they changed the entire story, all the dialog, the way the movie felt and changed the main actor to Channing Tatum...
It's a lot like that. : (
Regardless, my statement still stands that this game is going to be a huge upset to anyone who played EQ1 or 2 ( I played EQ2 for 5-6 years). Not because we as players cant get over the art style... but because everything about this games history has been dumbed down to a level of simplicity that just doesn't have the same pull in regards to challenge and individuality that made it so great in the past. One look at these items ( yes, I know they are the items at the very start.) makes me want to cry... its like they copy pasted every skill from League of Legends onto each piece of gear. I understand that stat balancing can become an issues, but this level of simplicity is not fun to me or anyone who has been playing mmo's for some time.
We want chess... not checkers.
Granted this is gear halfway up the level range, its CRAFTED, which is to say that this game understood how much the variety of procs and spell effects really gave your characters that much more versatility.
unfortunately, Its like even the armor procs and spell system in this new "vision" of the game has been dumbed down to a level that really makes me have almost no interest in this game.
I HOPE that SOE makes me eat my words... but I've dealt with their company long enough to know that the chances of that are slim to none.
My apologies on typos or lack of clarity, I've had some beers this evening and when I read "art style" post, I just saw those item screens and pretty much shit my pants.
I might have been able to stomach the art style had they not totally gutted the entire core mechanics of the game. The class definition was distinct in that everyone played a class that had a role. As much as there were strong classes that filled more then one role, there was no "one guy does everything " class.
So far classes in EQN will have "roles" and there won't be any real "one guy does everything." Maybe not strict one dimensional trinity, but a class shouldn't be meaningless. Their example of an Anti-Mage for example, doubt it will be the best healer or anything beyond a anti-caster class. Specific role, simply not stuck with it forever.
The direction of this game clearly shows they have decided to favor this lifeless husk of its former self as opposed to a more complex mechanic/class based system.
What's complex about tanks tank, healers heal, dps dps and no room for variation? There was nothing complex about EQ classes. You had a job and either were good or bad at it, the end. Even early on it was 8 skills instead of what it is today. Not a whole lot of complexity going on.
I just wish a game company would understand that a game that harkened back to the complex/ role setups of the past w/ new polished mechanics and graphics would become AT LEAST a solid competitor and generate more then enough money to be profitable. I cant even count how many times I've read on this site alone, " Man, I would play XXXXX forever if they remade the same game w/ new graphics."
People say that yet they stopped playing those games for various reasons. While many left due to changes, I'm betting many left for "the next best thing" and all that empty loyalty means nothing. I give much more respect to people who have stuck through it and played games for years, regardless of the changes for better or worse. Those are fans, not fickle gamers (most of us on this site).
Lets say for example, they decide to re-release one of your favorite classic movies... with new special effects and redone visuals. How would you feel if they changed the entire story, all the dialogue, the way the movie felt and changed the main actor to Channing Tatum...
They can't dictate how anything makes us feel. But personally the approach can be hit or miss. Star Wars vs Star Trek. One was just a joke and others were done well for a new generation. Hopefully the new SW movies go back to the originals though. There is no magic formula that will please everyone, but obviously there is a wide scale of how well something is or isn't received.
Regardless, my statement still stands that this game is going to be a huge upset to anyone who played EQ1 or 2 ( I played EQ2 for 5-6 years). Not because we as players cant get over the art style... but because everything about this games history has been dumbed down to a level of simplicity that just doesn't have the same pull in regards to challenge and individuality that make it so great in the past.
One look at these items ( yes, I know they are the items at the very start.) makes me want to cry... its like they copy pasted every skill from League of Legends onto each piece of gear. I understand that stat balancing can become an issues, but this level of simplicity is not fun to me or anyone who has been playing mmo's for sometime.
We want chess... not checkers.
Granted this is gear halfway up the level range, its CRAFTED, which is to say that this game understood how much the variety of procs and spell effects really gave your characters that much more versatility.
unfortunately, Its like even the armor procs and spell system in this new "vision" of the game has been dumbed down to a level that really makes me have almost no interest in this game.
Did you watch the SOE Live 2014 Class Panel video? Between multi-classing, gear, achievements, whatever other forms of progression, there should be plenty of complexity to character building. While every item might not have 20 stats or whatever, there should be some thought into how or why someone chooses something or how they use it. In EQ/EQ2, you have one character/class (not counting alts). EQN will have access to 40+. Managing 40+ classes, with multiple builds/templates for each potentially is quite a lot.
For me it is more along the lines of Fun vs Excel spreadsheets. Doesn't mean I don't want a challenge or have to think, but I also don't want to spend more time out of game staring at stats for hours on end either. Some of it should just make sense.
Sometimes complexity for complexity sake isn't the best move. Even Blizzard as figured this out and WoW is pretty dumbed down nowadays. Can still need a brain and have a challenge without having all the tedious systems.
I don't consider those mechanics stale, they just needed more movement and less "whack-a-mole" button cycling.
I'm sorry you are more elated about the direction of RPG's in general then myself.
Thanks for taking the time to attempt to white knight everything I said.
In closing, enjoy your cardboard box that you keep calling a "Rocket Ship".
I'm not trying to white knight anything, I simply am a gamer that likes a variety of things and don't get all doom & gloomy when something is different or not exactly what I want.
EQN is not my perfect game, not by a long shot, doesn't mean I think it is garbage or the downfall of the mmorpg genre. I've learned to accept that games will never be perfect for me and that I can either adapt or have nothing to play. EQN is the only thing that looks interesting in the near future, nothing out is worth my time/money. Do I complain about why all the games out aren't worth my time? Nope. I simply hope EQN or some unknown future game is.
I'm sorry you can't branch out and need a specific set up to be playable.
Couldn't stand EQ2 myself so I never played it past the 1st month and a free trial here and there. Did I grumble on the internet about it? Nope. Simply played something else. Welcome to the life of a gamer, fickle at that.
By cardboard box, I'm assuming you mean my imagination is getting the best of me. But I just look on the bright side while your cardboard box seems to have been soaked with the gloom cloud's rain.
Guess I could say I hope you find your Model T design in a Tesla world? Model Ts were pretty exciting for their time, don't see many as daily drivers these days. Still good for what they were, but the world and drivers have moved on.
So far classes in EQN will have "roles" and there won't be any real "one guy does everything." Maybe not strict one dimensional trinity, but a class shouldn't be meaningless. Their example of an Anti-Mage for example, doubt it will be the best healer or anything beyond a anti-caster class. Specific role, simply not stuck with it forever. That is your assumption and not yet proven in a working environment.. Be ready for something totally different then what you expected.. And be ready for GW2 type of combat.. ZERGFEST.. Sure people can pretend to play a role such as healer, but in reality it will be an active DPS role that promotes "soloing" with minor roles like healing, support or whatnot.. Why should people play a ROLE like healing when their dps set up that works when soloing is just fine.. Get the idea yet? Even in a group situation, there is no incentive for someone to be 100% vulnerable healer like the holy priest in WoW..
What's complex about tanks tank, healers heal, dps dps and no room for variation? There was nothing complex about EQ classes. You had a job and either were good or bad at it, the end. Even early on it was 8 skills instead of what it is today. Not a whole lot of complexity going on. Sorry, but I have to question if you ever played EQ1.. The level of complexity of playing a chanter, necro, shaman or druid in many group situations was not a walk in the park.. Especially the Bard class.. Twisting songs was an art..
People say that yet they stopped playing those games for various reasons. While many left due to changes, I'm betting many left for "the next best thing" and all that empty loyalty means nothing. I give much more respect to people who have stuck through it and played games for years, regardless of the changes for better or worse. Those are fans, not fickle gamers (most of us on this site). I left EQ shortly after PoP because of the carebear e-sport path they chose.. EQ1 changed drastically in a short period of time, and why should I support a direction that I do not care for.. Just like in politics.. If my candidate changes his tune, I don't continue to support him.. If my Ford Mustang changes to an SUV, I don't keep buying them.. Get the idea?
We want chess... not checkers. <<< +1
Did you watch the SOE Live 2014 Class Panel video? Between multi-classing, gear, achievements, whatever other forms of progression, there should be plenty of complexity to character building. While every item might not have 20 stats or whatever, there should be some thought into how or why someone chooses something or how they use it. In EQ/EQ2, you have one character/class (not counting alts). EQN will have access to 40+. Managing 40+ classes, with multiple builds/templates for each potentially is quite a lot.
For me it is more along the lines of Fun vs Excel spreadsheets. Doesn't mean I don't want a challenge or have to think, but I also don't want to spend more time out of game staring at stats for hours on end either. Some of it should just make sense. Really? Did you just say that? In the paragraph above you promoted how complex EQN will be with managing 40 classes and all the multi-classing and how "gear" will have an effect etc etc.. DUDE.. You just promoted MIN/MAX excel spreadsheet character builds.. Ha Ha Ha.. Then you turned around and degraded any game that does that.. You don't think people will min/max EQN be best "PvP" build, or best this, or best that build?
Sometimes complexity for complexity sake isn't the best move. Even Blizzard as figured this out and WoW is pretty dumbed down nowadays. Can still need a brain and have a challenge without having all the tedious systems.
Between all the 40 classes, and gear and this and that.. Sounds like EQN is going to be far more complex then WoW.. So according to you, we should just keep playing WoW.. As you said, "Even Blizzard as figured this out".. lol Can I make an honest suggestion.. Lets just wait and see how the game plays when they actually have it built before commenting on such a raw stage 1 development..
Comments
They could simply do a clean up of the existing models by reducing the size of facial features in relation to the body, and changing armor and items to be more proportioned.
Getting rid of the hominid posture and the bowed legs would be nice too. The characters look like monkeys who have makeup on them to masquerade as humans.
This amount of revamp won't happen, and it's the easiest fix I think. Because of that, speculating on more dramatic fixes seems somewhat fantastic to me.
Sure but point still stands you can have stylized realistic and stylized cartoons. (edit: by stylized realistic I mean fantasy armor in tv/movies with a specific style, e.g. Game of Thrones/Lord of the Rings that can then translate to a video game)
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/At least the shoulders are under control for now...
https://imgur.com/a/UWoN0
The facial features will most likely be part of character creation. Doubt everyone is going to have to have giant sized eyes, it helps with emotion and what not, but if someone wants to look like the sun is always in their eyes, why not. I think the faces looking like they've been given the magazine cover photoshop treatment is what makes it stand out so much.
As they add to Landmark, starting to see gear and character models develop more. While nothing has changed drastically over the last year, the details and quality have improved.
Im a little late to the game but this really did make me Laugh Out Loud.
One looks noble and regal and the other I hear "Well Gorsh Mickey huck, huck, huck" in Goofy's voice over, and over.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
Graphics is the least of it's issues. Don't get me wrong -- the graphics were designed for 6 year olds (and anime fans -- same thing).
The problem with the game is the classes and lack of real roles. Give us EQ1 classes. I'll play. Graphics update or not.
Give me realistic graphics and EQ1 Classes and I'll subscribe for years.
I don't know Allein, It's pretty hard to make that leap from what is actually in Landmark now to what I would consider an acceptable amount of cleaning up the models. I will be amazed if they allow you to manipulate the sliders enough to make a realistic looking character. Even if they do, notice that the items have the same oversized dimensions as when Mickey Mouse interacts with items (Broom handle 4" diameter).
If you know something that I don't about a change in attitude toward the art design by the dev team, please share.
Good point.. SOE Live 2014 really didn't give us anything new.. Oh sure they tossed out some mini snacks that even a mouse would eyeroll over.. From a scale of 1-10.. Ten being "launch day", this past year it feels we moved from 2.3 to 2.9.. ZZzzzzzzz Is that all the faster this train is going?
That's exactly what came to mind when i saw it as well. The difference is very eye opening.
I hope they release it next week, then we can all complain how it was rushed out the door and not finished like the majority of games. How dare a company actually take time developing their product.
EQN is heavily stylized, there is no getting away from that. The dimensions are also part of the design foundation with all the "heroic" stuff. EQ, EQ2, EQOA and any updated models they have had over the years are all stylized toward the cartoony end of the spectrum, despite those that think they are "realistic" but limited by the tech of the time. Same art lead for most of it and to me, it shows through into EQN. I think EQ's early models weren't as stylized as the following games due to the tech limits and they just ended up looking a little less unrealistic. Looking at the mobs, spell animations, and other not character models, lots of over the top stuff going on.
I linked some pics of the new gear in Landmark above. Remove the head and the armor/bodies look good within the context of a stylized "heroic" game. The faces simply lack character. Not sure if this is because of how SOEmote or the animations work or what, but the faces just don't have enough shading or imperfections, someone is happy to use the smoothing tool.
I think some of you are looking for Gloria Victis or Shroud of the Avatar style art and that simply isn't EQN or the franchise as a whole. While the early games have fallen into the WoW domain in some cases, from what has been added to Landmark, they aren't going that far with EQN.
Game is still early in development. I've never seen a game's pre-alpha models match exactly with the finished product. While Landmark/EQN have comparable to better quality to some recently released games, it still has plenty of time for changes/improvements. They are adding in "Large Humans" to Landmark some what soon. They've also updated the customization of the models since Landmark's launch. I'm going to just take a guess that they haven't stamped them as 100% complete.
Even poor Tony was said to have been a very early model, if you look closely, you'll notice the lion king is missing a lot of detail. Although they've since shown quite different concept art and I'm guessing we won't see Tony again as he was, but the Kerrans will still look like a distinct race model.
I agree that you'll probably not be able to make a "realistic" looking character. This isn't a realistic game/franchise. EQ isn't Elder Scrolls or Lord of the Rings or insert random brown colored games. This isn't a game where every race is going to have the same body with a different head attached. They want everything to pop and while it might not be what some want, that is what it is.
Wait, so you're seriously going to suggest that EQ2 was a very cartoony game... they just lacked the technology to make extremely cartoony characters 10 years ago?
So... that means WoW spent their massive budge on those cartoony characters but EQ2 with their much smaller budget couldn't afford cartoony characters?
WoW - I would say is more of artistic / stylized than cartoony.
EQN - Not art or stylized.
Warhammer Online - Stylized / realistic.
Lord of the Rings Online - Stylized / realistic.
EQN - Not stylized / realistic.
Free Realms - Cartoon.
EQN - Disney Cartoon.
EQN / Landmark is neither artistic , stylized or have any sort of realistic element thrown in like WHO or LoTRO. It is disney cartoon from the get go. Giant trees , giant chins , giant plants , giant noses , over exaggerated movements , vomit inducing particle effects..etc. The female character models arent nearly as bad as the male as they seem to have believable proportions and facial features.
That is what they should have kept!
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How are you defining sytlysied, artistic and the rest lol. and landmark sint even a mmo rpg.
Also wow and eq next have the same sort of character models, the difference being wow's are old as hell and look like ass in the current gen of gaming lol.
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Obviously all the terms we are tossing around are subjective, but yes, the EQ franchise has always been a "cartoony" looking game to me. Which I think has contributed to its longevity and appeal to a decent variety of folks (more so after they took EQ in a different direction), not extremely different then WoW or the Warcraft franchise.
While maybe not as "cartoony" or stylized as WoW, EQ games have never looked like Elder Scrolls or LOTR type games to me. Or the brown colored generic fantasy genre as a whole. EQN does take it further for sure, but I like it myself and I'm sure others do/will. Too bad for those with very specific requirements for a game, but that's life. No game has ever been "perfect" for me personally.
"Realistic" to me <------
"Cartoony" to me <------
EQ franchise is closer to which?
EQ for the time and the hardware then was of realistic styling. I am not sure what you are trying to get at... And EQ2 has a doll like feel to the models it but still they went for realistic styling and they just chose the wrong CPU path to design the game around.
They are nowhere near what Landmark and EQN currently look like. They are going way to far with this whole " Heroic " non sense.
Again...
This is not photo realistic but it definitely has realistic styling and color without being a disney cartoon. Why they chose to go away from this style is mind boggling. The current characters offer nothing over what this would have and look way way way worse.
Art is subjective. I'd argue that some of the other games of the time were more "realistic", but honestly all of them were pretty silly looking considering the tech and what not.
Saying the new models look worse is like saying Mario looks worse then Skyrim. Simple different styles. Might not be what you like, but it isn't "worse" simple because it isn't a particular look.
That guy looks great, no argument here. I also liked the early concept art that was more "cartoony" and I like the even never stuff. It all looks good relatively.
They said from the get go that they decided to not make EQ3 or just another game which that guy would of been a part of. I believe someone linked some of the early concept models that looked like other games out there with nothing setting them a part (there were animated vids but I think they are taken down by now). Take a look at Shroud of the Avatar, Pathfinder Online, Gloria Victis, etc. Zzzzzz. EQ3 would of fit right in there. The first pic of Gloria Victis could be DayZ Medieval Mod, nothing special at all. No one should confuse any of the other pics with other games.
The heroic design is the design they chose to go with. Along with voxels and the more stylized characters. Kind of hard to remove any one of them without messing up the overall vision.
Might not be what some want, but what game ever is? I've yet to see a game where everyone was just head over heels in love and had no issues. If so, this website probably wouldn't exist since it is more about complaining then anything. Albion Online and Shards sound very interesting to me, but guess what? I can't stand isometric clicky click games anymore. Pretty sure I'm not going to convince the devs to totally rethink their system because it doesn't fit into my ideal game.
I'm not trying to get at anything, simply believe the franchise as a whole has never been very "realistic" TO ME. Sucks for those that don't like it, but it is great for those that do. At this point, people can either get on board, hope it might be a bit different a launch, and creation will give some variation, or move on. A few grumbling on the internet isn't going to result in them scrapping the entire art style or any major design element.
Those still hoping SOE will wise up or change their minds are wasting their time. Not to say they couldn't make some changes here and there, but overall, it is what it is.
I might have been able to stomach the art style had they not totally gutted the entire core mechanics of the game. The class definition was distinct in that everyone played a class that had a role. As much as there were strong classes that filled more then one role, there was no "one guy does everything " class.
The direction of this game clearly shows they have decided to favor this lifeless husk of its former self as opposed to a more complex mechanic/class based system.
Obviously this is where the market is going as this genre becomes more popular, there are only so many intelligent gamer's out there... just like in the real word most people are below average intelligence which relates to the choices on games they make. I cant blame them, they are a business and businesses are in it to make money.
I just wish a game company would understand that a game that harkened back to the complex/ role setups of the past w/ new polished mechanics and graphics would become AT LEAST a solid competitor and generate more then enough money to be profitable. I cant even count how many times I've read on this site alone, " Man, I would play XXXXX forever if they remade the same game w/ new graphics."
Its a lot like the movie industry lately, I'm not a huge fan of most of the remakes... but the producers know that it will generate a profit because its a formula that was extremely effective in the past, regardless of times changing people are nostalgic. That does not mean they want you to plop a giant turd right on top of their favorite mmo's legacy.
Lets say for example, they decide to re-release one of your favorite classic movies... with new special effects and redone visuals. How would you feel if they changed the entire story, all the dialog, the way the movie felt and changed the main actor to Channing Tatum...
It's a lot like that. : (
Regardless, my statement still stands that this game is going to be a huge upset to anyone who played EQ1 or 2 ( I played EQ2 for 5-6 years). Not because we as players cant get over the art style... but because everything about this games history has been dumbed down to a level of simplicity that just doesn't have the same pull in regards to challenge and individuality that made it so great in the past. One look at these items ( yes, I know they are the items at the very start.) makes me want to cry... its like they copy pasted every skill from League of Legends onto each piece of gear. I understand that stat balancing can become an issues, but this level of simplicity is not fun to me or anyone who has been playing mmo's for some time.
We want chess... not checkers.
Granted this is gear halfway up the level range, its CRAFTED, which is to say that this game understood how much the variety of procs and spell effects really gave your characters that much more versatility.
unfortunately, Its like even the armor procs and spell system in this new "vision" of the game has been dumbed down to a level that really makes me have almost no interest in this game.
I HOPE that SOE makes me eat my words... but I've dealt with their company long enough to know that the chances of that are slim to none.
My apologies on typos or lack of clarity, I've had some beers this evening and when I read "art style" post, I just saw those item screens and pretty much shit my pants.
I don't consider those mechanics stale, they just needed more movement and less "whack-a-mole" button cycling.
I'm sorry you are more elated about the direction of RPG's in general then myself.
Thanks for taking the time to attempt to white knight everything I said.
In closing, enjoy your cardboard box that you keep calling a "Rocket Ship".
I'm not trying to white knight anything, I simply am a gamer that likes a variety of things and don't get all doom & gloomy when something is different or not exactly what I want.
EQN is not my perfect game, not by a long shot, doesn't mean I think it is garbage or the downfall of the mmorpg genre. I've learned to accept that games will never be perfect for me and that I can either adapt or have nothing to play. EQN is the only thing that looks interesting in the near future, nothing out is worth my time/money. Do I complain about why all the games out aren't worth my time? Nope. I simply hope EQN or some unknown future game is.
I'm sorry you can't branch out and need a specific set up to be playable.
Couldn't stand EQ2 myself so I never played it past the 1st month and a free trial here and there. Did I grumble on the internet about it? Nope. Simply played something else. Welcome to the life of a gamer, fickle at that.
By cardboard box, I'm assuming you mean my imagination is getting the best of me. But I just look on the bright side while your cardboard box seems to have been soaked with the gloom cloud's rain.
Guess I could say I hope you find your Model T design in a Tesla world? Model Ts were pretty exciting for their time, don't see many as daily drivers these days. Still good for what they were, but the world and drivers have moved on.
Between all the 40 classes, and gear and this and that.. Sounds like EQN is going to be far more complex then WoW.. So according to you, we should just keep playing WoW.. As you said, "Even Blizzard as figured this out".. lol Can I make an honest suggestion.. Lets just wait and see how the game plays when they actually have it built before commenting on such a raw stage 1 development..