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How can be this game a pay to win...
... when you can buy ANYTHING in game with game gold including patron, gems and APEX?
ANYTHING in the cash shop you can buy it with in game gold so I cant understand how this is a pay to win....
But, but, but he attacked me when I was low life!
Yes, HE DID, why you cant do the same to him?
Uf that will take me a lot of time...
HERE IS YOUR QUEST!
Comments
Still circling around the literal meaning of P2W and ignoring what others are actually trying to say? business as usual then i guess.
You didn't mention to him "How do you "win" a MMO?"
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Look, I play ESO because it's fun after I returned and it's p2p. The moment Zenimax adds cash shop where players can buy good gear etc with real money I'm gone forever. Also, I couldn't imagine playing a game where I need some kind of "points" to open a loot bag and those "points" being sold in cash shop. Simple as that.
As I've said before I'm not against AA but I'm against p2w shite that is ruining games.
To be fair, there is a point somewhere between starting the game and reaching the higher levels where the game could be considered "pay to win". This is because, much like Age of Wushu, which this game reminds me of in a lot of ways, the progression that is possible from being a patron is far and beyond more lucrative than the seemingly limitless amount of time that you have to stand around waiting for your labor to click off at 1 per minute every 5 minutes without it.
The difference being that patrons get 10 labor points per minute every five minutes while in game, which is double that amount, plus the regular 5 labor points per 5 minutes while they're not even playing.
That makes crafting, the games cornerstone, far easier for the patron to accomplish than the free player, and subsequently allows the patron to progress through the game faster and at a higher level of efficiency than the free player will progress.
In a game that features open world PVP after level 30 then, the patron, if they have utilized those labor points wisely, will start their pvp life better equipped and thus more powerful than the free player who has played the game for the same amount of "real world" time.
To a certain faction of game players that's called "Pay to Win". To another faction however, it just means that the free player is going to take a bit longer to get where they need to be in order to participate and win conflicts. And to that same faction of player, that's not always a bad thing. I rather enjoy it, much like I enjoyed the free version of AOW more than I enjoyed the pay version.
Then, as Kano has said, there is always the option for even the free player to become a patron via in game apex sales.
The issue with that however is that, if you want to do this thing completely for free, it still puts you at the mercy of player who are willing to invest money into the game via inflated apex prices vs the amount of time it might take a player at any given level to earn said amount of gold.
Over the last couple of days I've seen apex prices ranging from 80 gold to 100 gold each. It takes 2 apex to purchase patronage for a month and thus far, being a new player and only myself being level 26, I have only been able to hold onto about 14 gold total.
Keep in mind though that I have not held on to every penny I have made, nor have I taken advantage of every opportunity I have had to get more. Because even opening loot bags require labor, and I have been spending most of my labor points crafting arcane armor, I still have an undisclosed amount of gold sitting in unopened loot bags in my inventory waiting to be opened.
This goes back to what I was saying about how being able to earn more labor points makes the game seem like it is pay to win.
In the end though I guess that really just came down to the decision I made to focus on making the armor, as I was progressing through the quests, rather than opening the bags and trying to work up enough money to get that apex.
But that's kind of cool still isn't it? Real decisions that come with real repercussions?
I don't know. I'm digging this game right now. Pay to win or not. The free grind isn't nearly as difficult, in comparison, to the free grind in Age of Wushu. The botting, although I've heard it exists, isn't nearly as prevalent. The action is just as fun, and the quests, although fairly simplistic in nature, are far superior. Adding buildings and farming to that whole thing makes this game the current #1 pick for the thing to do when I sit down in front of my PC, and that's going up against a couple of other games that I really like a lot as well right now.
Just my two cents.
What if noone bought that stuff from the cash shop, or noone who bought it was selling it on the AH? Could you still buy it with ingame gold?
If you pay without spending money all you get is a chance to get the items through crafting.
If I pay with my credit card I am guaranteed to get the gear.
If they never ever release more gear maybe you will win the RNG and end up as geared.
But it's absolute that when I pay, I get the gear.
And anyone who thinks their is no advantage is choosing to be ignorant.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Normally i avoid the discuss P2W because like alot of things around its extreme subjective and a game where exist a Cash Shop (stuff or services) can be seen as a P2W, any game, for example WoW is include.
For some players its P2W and for others is not. How that is define?
1st its related to what each one define what is "Win" in a game, its directly related to primary objective in-game.
My case for example, i never "Win", ever. CS or no CS because i "only" play around 20-25h a week. So in every mmorpg i play in this last 10y i was never a "Winner" (considering the winner is get evething top the game provide).
To my eyes, i cant stand a P2W game that dont allow my progression or at some point the only option is really using the credit card, like HoTK where when i reach lvl 70 no group accept me because my gear wasnt good enouph, i search and found that i need CS to make the gear better, quit and never look back.
AA is diferent, some people can define P2W because they see others go ahead faster thanks to spend real money in CS, and to be honest i accept that. But there isnt a wall anywhere in AA for those who dont spend real money, in fact we end get advantage from whales because they fill the AH with stuff we need from CS, we just take more time but soon we get there whatever is the objective in-game and yes whales reach there faster, like someone allready mentined even the monthly sub can be pay with in-game gold, theres so many F2P players converted in P2P without spend 1 single euro/dollar.
Like anything in life theres a dark side and the bright side, some focus looking to the dark side, others to the bright side, monthy Pythons anyone?
And then we have endless discussing.
Just my 2cents.
Where can you buy gear with credit card ?
He never said you buy gear with credit card. He said you're guaranteed to get the gear. By that, he means you buy the materials from the cash shop (via lots of RNG boxes) and then just keep clicking the craft button until you finally get the gear you want.
Gets expensive fast of course, but quite a few people have done it anyways regardless of the thousands of dollars it costs.
That's your definition, to me p2w is having access to better stuff in a cash shop. Ex. Wartune
Going faster only isn't enough for me to make it p2w. Some people naturally have more playtime than others and it is to be expected in a mmo, but buying stuff that is better than anything else in the game, that is the line I made for myself.
I am sorry that's not what he said, even while paying you could still end up with nothing.
And to add to it, I could also get whatever I want with ingame gold, I just buy it from the crafter.
Use credit card to buy APEX, sell APEX for gold. Use gold to buy the gear I want from auction hall.
Use credit card to buy gold directly from gold seller. Use gold to buy the gear I want from auction hall.
The second way is cheaper than buying gold indirectly from Trion but more risk.
Buying the gold and buying the mats to play the RNG is foolish. Just wait and buy the finished product when it hits the AH.
Stop buying the mats and playing the RNG. Just buy the finished product.
You just proved it is not P2W.
Here is a link to the ArcheAge forums.
Title of thread......
Congrats ADTweapons ollo server Divine Delphinad Weapon created!
http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?101869-Congrats-ADTweapons-ollo-server-Divine-Delphinad-Weapon-created!
Followed by pics of the person selling 2 items for cash.
Club - $2000
Bow - $1800
Enjoy.
In-game gold without paying is limited by time and labor points.
In-game gold with paying RL money (or using RL money to dodge in-game gold requirements in some cases, like buying mats from the cash shop) is limited by the size of your real life wallet.
The above becomes an issue because some peoples' wallets are really really REALLY big. In essence, their in-game gold limit is faaaaar higher than the in-game gold limit of a non-paying player. (especially if the paying player ALSO plays the game and gets gold from their own game-time and labor points, which they're probably doing. Most people don't pay for a game they aren't going to play, after all)
That just proves that you can do it in-game... P2W would be if you could drop 2k$ on the marketplace and be guaranteed to get that weapon. There a lot of people that spend 10k $ on mats to get nothing in the end.
Well, technically, you can drop $2k on that person and be guaranteed to get a really good weapon, since he's selling it for $2k (only $1.8k for the bow!). It wouldn't be as good as his, but still better than everyone else. I'd be kinda surprised if Trion approved of that, though (but I wouldn't be surprised if Trion didn't do anything about it).
What I'm more interested in is what, if anything, he paid in RL $$$ along the road to getting that delph weapon of his
MAGA
How is it different than any other games ? Some people have always had more time to play than others, even paying you are still limited to how many labor potion you can drink. And everything you can ever achieve by paying real $ can be done by just playing the game. Someone could win the lottery and make some epic gear on his first try.
Enjoy the trolling.
Since it's not trion selling it you cannot say that the game is p2w. I sold gear in everquest 15 years ago.. was the game p2w ?
You are the only troll here since your definition would apply to every game ever made.