Originally posted by Forgrimm MMO's need grinds to keep people playing
There is barely any grind in FPS/RTS/MOBA games, why do you think its necessary in MMOs?
Sure there is, you're grinding the same maps and battles over and over again. It's no different than grinding dungeons or daily quests in an mmo.
I bet you dont believe in what you say, and you are just trolling for sake of trolling.
I'm trolling because I said that FPS and MOBA's have repetitive/grindy gameplay? Wtf are you talking about? A grind is a grind. FPS's are some of the most repetitive games out there, you literally play the same handful of maps over and over again, doing the same thing. Especially since they added leveling and perks to games like CoD. I see no difference between running 5 different heroic dungeons over and over in an mmo, and playing team deathmatch on 5 different maps in an FPS over and over.
I don't think you understand the concept of grind. It means you do something repeteadly to gain something. In MOBAs you dont grind to gain something, you play the game for the gameplay only and as soon as you feel bored you can stop as there is no carrot at the end of the tunnel.
I play League of Legends from time to time and there is no reason for me to do it repeatedly as there is no virtual item I am playint for, I just do it for the fun, and when it stops being fun I stop playing. Not so in MMO gear grind, you need to keep doing it until you get your carrot.
Originally posted by Varex12 Originally posted by zzaxOriginally posted by ForgrimmMMO's need grinds to keep people playing
There is barely any grind in FPS/RTS/MOBA games, why do you think its necessary in MMOs?What? No grind? You are doing the same exact thing over and over and over again, are you not? Isn't that what grind is?
I think he's referring to the title as in gear grind. There isn't much if at all a gear grind in FPS/RTS/MOBAs.
There's a difference in them as the focus is more based on playing against other players with the level of opportunities being equal rather than having to need to grind for gear to be competitive whether in pve or pvp.
In the original gear grinds you had decay and the grind was to replace. Now there is 0 decay in most MMO's and they have made the one time through, gear grind ten times longer in an effort to hold the player longer. I am an old school MMO and grind is fine with me. I can gather hides or ore or you name it to convert to gear until the cows come home. I see it as original MMO content but in most of the new games, I can't do it. It feels like I am running to a dead end as fast as I can for the sake of getting there and to me, that's not what MMO's were about.
Gear grinds are just simpleton "chase the carrot" time sinks.. Nothing more, nothing less.. It is the cheapest and easiest form of progression content for players to keep playing.. Personally. I have become to LOATHE and HATE any form of lame progression trickery like gear grinds.. I refuse to ever pay 1 cent to play these types of games.. But I know I'm a minority in this, as it appears that most players love gear grinds..
The only people that can actually claim a point to any "gear grind" must be the individual developer, or whomever is responsible for actually having implemented ideas into their game.
Asking about "the point" for such as if this was meaningful philosophical task, is imo a bad way to approach the issue of game design.
A more sensible way to phrase a question without coming across as pretentious could for example be:
"What could be the point of gear grind?"
"Why is the devs making use of a gear grind in this and that game?".
I also have a problem with thinking of there being a "point" to how a game has been developed. If "gear grinding" was a perceived feature of sorts, and if such came abotu by casual game design, I would seriously question the finesse and merit of any game designer that seem to have insisted on wanting a feature in a game, without ever explaining the rationale for doing so.
Again, the only interesting debate for me about a perceived "gear grind", is just how it could or would make sense with regard to what has actually been stated by game developers for a game.
Originally posted by Rydeson Gear grinds are just simpleton "chase the carrot" time sinks.. Nothing more, nothing less.. It is the cheapest and easiest form of progression content for players to keep playing.. Personally. I have become to LOATHE and HATE any form of lame progression trickery like gear grinds.. I refuse to ever pay 1 cent to play these types of games.. But I know I'm a minority in this, as it appears that most players love gear grinds..
I'm really not sure what you're playing, but I've never played an MMO that didn't have some sort of gear grind at level cap. If you don't mind, could you toss out a couple titles? Maybe I'll check them out.
Originally posted by Yamota I have been playing TERA for the last couple of months and although it has been fun leveling up to the cap, I have to now choose either between ranked PvP, which is like League of Legends MOBA type battles but much, much worse, or get into the gear treadmill.As MOBA type PvP is far more fun than TERA arena PvP I choose to do the gear grind. But as I was doing it, I was thinking what is the point?You grind for gear so you can grind for higher level of gear and then stop until they release even higher level of dungeons and gears. I mean it is fun to do the dungeons for the first 10 times but after 50 times, it gets really boring and repetetive.Now I would understand if there was some conquest type PvP where you needed high level gear, and there is something like that called alliance PvP, but it is all pointless as nothing is really permanent and it is just another end-game grind for PvP gear.So I am not sure I get it, is this gear grind really fun to people?
Some players do enjoy grinding for gear. I am not one of them, so not a good proponent for it
Really all game features do the same thing, don't they? - You gain levels to fight bigger mobs in order to gain levels to fight bigger mobs. Throw in some new abilities/skills/spells and it is even more interesting. - You craft poor leather armor in order to craft better leather armor and then craft more of that in order to craft the best leather armor.
It is just what each individual player chooses to follow along and when to stop. Some stop quicker than others. If this is ALL the game has to offer, I do not last long there
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Rydeson Gear grinds are just simpleton "chase the carrot" time sinks.. Nothing more, nothing less.. It is the cheapest and easiest form of progression content for players to keep playing.. Personally. I have become to LOATHE and HATE any form of lame progression trickery like gear grinds.. I refuse to ever pay 1 cent to play these types of games.. But I know I'm a minority in this, as it appears that most players love gear grinds..
I'm really not sure what you're playing, but I've never played an MMO that didn't have some sort of gear grind at level cap. If you don't mind, could you toss out a couple titles? Maybe I'll check them out.
Asheron's Call 1 and Ultima Online did not really have gear grinds. As a matter of fact most sandboxes do not have a gear grind per se, atleast not the traditional endless treadmill of dungeon-gear-dungeon-gear types, which is what I am referring to.
That is probably by sandbox MMOs are so hard to get right because themepark gear grinds are pretty straightforward to implement.
Achieving things keeps players playing. When there's a new mountain to climb, many will try to climb it. When players run out of things to accomplish many will get bored and move on. The gear grind is an easy way to artificially slow down player progression and keep them playing longer basically.
Originally posted by Rydeson Gear grinds are just simpleton "chase the carrot" time sinks.. Nothing more, nothing less.. It is the cheapest and easiest form of progression content for players to keep playing.. Personally. I have become to LOATHE and HATE any form of lame progression trickery like gear grinds.. I refuse to ever pay 1 cent to play these types of games.. But I know I'm a minority in this, as it appears that most players love gear grinds..
I'm really not sure what you're playing, but I've never played an MMO that didn't have some sort of gear grind at level cap. If you don't mind, could you toss out a couple titles? Maybe I'll check them out.
Asheron's Call 1 and Ultima Online did not really have gear grinds. As a matter of fact most sandboxes do not have a gear grind per se, atleast not the traditional endless treadmill of dungeon-gear-dungeon-gear types, which is what I am referring to.
That is probably by sandbox MMOs are so hard to get right because themepark gear grinds are pretty straightforward to implement.
True.
This is why sandbox games just aren't as popular anymore, though. They just tend to be more complicated, there is a lack of a feeling of progression compared to themeparks, and the community just isn't there to support it, you know? I'm really liking how Shards Online is shaping up, though. It's like a sandbox, but to a different degree for every shard, meaning you can be chaotic sandbox or chaotic themepark and you'll probably find something you like. Other than that, The Repopulation? Maybe? I'm not really sure what's out there right now that's actually implementing these ideas well.
Life is a gear grind and so is every game. "Gear" is interchangeable with any reward or your choosing.
You work so you can get new, maybe better gear, and often to maintain your gear. And then you die.
Or let's look at a pure sandbox like minecraft. You grind (break n build) for your reward (completed building). And you do that over and over for no reason other than to do it (aka because you find it fun).
If a themepark game had a quest that said, "Go to this zone and break 10,000 blocks and you will get a +5 Vorpal Sword" it's no different than someone who breaks 10,000 blocks and says, "Look I made a canyon." In both cases nothing has been achieved other than fun in the eyes of the player.
Five years ago you had to improve your gear in order to progress in a game and see content a game had to offer, and that was the best reward you can imagine while playing a computer game.
Nowdays, the philosophy in game design has changed, and everyone is entitled to experience everything in a game. In most new MMOs your gear makes no difference for your performance in gameplay, which means the grind has no point, really.
Sadly, people will collect tokens, gather herbs, hunt for achievements, and other mindless tasks if a game tells them to do so, even if it wasn't required to see new content. It really is pointless in this case.
But if mobs are too tough and deal lots of damage, and they happen to block your entry to new area you haven't seen before, a player starts to find solutions for the problem, and start to grind for better gear to finally see what the last boss of this new are looks like.
It's a shame we have to even ask this question today. MMOs surely have devolved a lot from what they once were.
Five years ago you had to improve your gear in order to progress in a game and see content a game had to offer, and that was the best reward you can imagine while playing a computer game.
Nowdays, the philosophy in game design has changed, and everyone is entitled to experience everything in a game. In most new MMOs your gear makes no difference for your performance in gameplay, which means the grind has no point, really.
Sadly, people will collect tokens, gather herbs, hunt for achievements, and other mindless tasks if a game tells them to do so, even if it wasn't required to see new content. It really is pointless in this case.
But if mobs are too tough and deal lots of damage, and they happen to block your entry to new area you haven't seen before, a player starts to find solutions for the problem, and start to grind for better gear to finally see what the last boss of this new are looks like.
It's a shame we have to even ask this question today. MMOs surely have devolved a lot from what they once were.
This post gets it. I wish developers did.
If any textbooks are in need of an example for cognitive dissonance, please see above.
Five years ago you had to improve your gear in order to progress in a game and see content a game had to offer, and that was the best reward you can imagine while playing a computer game.
Nowdays, the philosophy in game design has changed, and everyone is entitled to experience everything in a game. In most new MMOs your gear makes no difference for your performance in gameplay, which means the grind has no point, really.
Sadly, people will collect tokens, gather herbs, hunt for achievements, and other mindless tasks if a game tells them to do so, even if it wasn't required to see new content. It really is pointless in this case.
But if mobs are too tough and deal lots of damage, and they happen to block your entry to new area you haven't seen before, a player starts to find solutions for the problem, and start to grind for better gear to finally see what the last boss of this new are looks like.
It's a shame we have to even ask this question today. MMOs surely have devolved a lot from what they once were.
This post gets it. I wish developers did.
If any textbooks are in need of an example for cognitive dissonance, please see above.
Five years ago you had to improve your gear in order to progress in a game and see content a game had to offer, and that was the best reward you can imagine while playing a computer game.
Nowdays, the philosophy in game design has changed, and everyone is entitled to experience everything in a game. In most new MMOs your gear makes no difference for your performance in gameplay, which means the grind has no point, really.
Sadly, people will collect tokens, gather herbs, hunt for achievements, and other mindless tasks if a game tells them to do so, even if it wasn't required to see new content. It really is pointless in this case.
But if mobs are too tough and deal lots of damage, and they happen to block your entry to new area you haven't seen before, a player starts to find solutions for the problem, and start to grind for better gear to finally see what the last boss of this new are looks like.
It's a shame we have to even ask this question today. MMOs surely have devolved a lot from what they once were.
This post gets it. I wish developers did.
If any textbooks are in need of an example for cognitive dissonance, please see above.
Perhaps you could point out the cognitive dissonance rather than just stating it to be there. Making a statement is very different from offering proof of that statement.
This lesson on how to contribute positively to a discussion is brought to you free of charge.
I have been playing TERA for the last couple of months and although it has been fun leveling up to the cap, I have to now choose either between ranked PvP, which is like League of Legends MOBA type battles but much, much worse, or get into the gear treadmill.As MOBA type PvP is far more fun than TERA arena PvP I choose to do the gear grind. But as I was doing it, I was thinking what is the point?You grind for gear so you can grind for higher level of gear and then stop until they release even higher level of dungeons and gears. I mean it is fun to do the dungeons for the first 10 times but after 50 times, it gets really boring and repetetive.Now I would understand if there was some conquest type PvP where you needed high level gear, and there is something like that called alliance PvP, but it is all pointless as nothing is really permanent and it is just another end-game grind for PvP gear.So I am not sure I get it, is this gear grind really fun to people?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Originally posted by Rydeson Gear grinds are just simpleton "chase the carrot" time sinks.. Nothing more, nothing less.. It is the cheapest and easiest form of progression content for players to keep playing.. Personally. I have become to LOATHE and HATE any form of lame progression trickery like gear grinds.. I refuse to ever pay 1 cent to play these types of games.. But I know I'm a minority in this, as it appears that most players love gear grinds..
I'm really not sure what you're playing, but I've never played an MMO that didn't have some sort of gear grind at level cap. If you don't mind, could you toss out a couple titles? Maybe I'll check them out.
Asheron's Call 1 and Ultima Online did not really have gear grinds. As a matter of fact most sandboxes do not have a gear grind per se, atleast not the traditional endless treadmill of dungeon-gear-dungeon-gear types, which is what I am referring to.That is probably by sandbox MMOs are so hard to get right because themepark gear grinds are pretty straightforward to implement.
True.
This is why sandbox games just aren't as popular anymore, though. They just tend to be more complicated, there is a lack of a feeling of progression compared to themeparks, and the community just isn't there to support it, you know? I'm really liking how Shards Online is shaping up, though. It's like a sandbox, but to a different degree for every shard, meaning you can be chaotic sandbox or chaotic themepark and you'll probably find something you like. Other than that, The Repopulation? Maybe? I'm not really sure what's out there right now that's actually implementing these ideas well.
It's because the majority of people like direction be it a game or working for someone, which is what theme Park MMO's give.
As for me I love me a good sandbox game, but I also know I'm not the majority.
Originally posted by sirphobos All activities in all games have the same point - to have fun.
Could not say better! :-) And what would all this complainers then do if all gear from original Wow would be still best now in Wod? This is the only NATURAL way how it should be.
Originally posted by Rydeson Gear grinds are just simpleton "chase the carrot" time sinks.. Nothing more, nothing less.. It is the cheapest and easiest form of progression content for players to keep playing.. Personally. I have become to LOATHE and HATE any form of lame progression trickery like gear grinds.. I refuse to ever pay 1 cent to play these types of games.. But I know I'm a minority in this, as it appears that most players love gear grinds..
I'm really not sure what you're playing, but I've never played an MMO that didn't have some sort of gear grind at level cap. If you don't mind, could you toss out a couple titles? Maybe I'll check them out.
Asheron's Call 1 and Ultima Online did not really have gear grinds. As a matter of fact most sandboxes do not have a gear grind per se, atleast not the traditional endless treadmill of dungeon-gear-dungeon-gear types, which is what I am referring to.That is probably by sandbox MMOs are so hard to get right because themepark gear grinds are pretty straightforward to implement.
True.
This is why sandbox games just aren't as popular anymore, though. They just tend to be more complicated, there is a lack of a feeling of progression compared to themeparks, and the community just isn't there to support it, you know? I'm really liking how Shards Online is shaping up, though. It's like a sandbox, but to a different degree for every shard, meaning you can be chaotic sandbox or chaotic themepark and you'll probably find something you like. Other than that, The Repopulation? Maybe? I'm not really sure what's out there right now that's actually implementing these ideas well.
It's because the majority of people like direction be it a game or working for someone, which is what theme Park MMO's give.
As for me I love me a good sandbox game, but I also know I'm not the majority.
Whoa! I almost fell off my chair when you suggested that the sandbox crowd wasn't the majority
I totally agree. I'm not what I would consider a sandbox "fan". I will engage in sandbox games occasionally. I've got The Repop coming and also, hopefully Shards Online (click it and support it), and I've played sandbox games in the past also, but I've always found Themeparks to be more engaging from a gameplay perspective. Sandboxes, however, offer more a more varied gaming experience and more innovative features. You might think of it like baking. A themepark pretty much follows a trusted, true recipe, whereas a sandbox just sort of does stuff on the fly, tries different things, tries to make things better. That's why sandboxes are so important, though. If we're to see any advancement in the genre, I see it coming from a sandbox, not a themepark.
Originally posted by CrazKanuk Originally posted by LazzaroOriginally posted by CrazKanukOriginally posted by YamotaOriginally posted by CrazKanukOriginally posted by Rydeson Gear grinds are just simpleton "chase the carrot" time sinks.. Nothing more, nothing less.. It is the cheapest and easiest form of progression content for players to keep playing.. Personally. I have become to LOATHE and HATE any form of lame progression trickery like gear grinds.. I refuse to ever pay 1 cent to play these types of games.. But I know I'm a minority in this, as it appears that most players love gear grinds..
I'm really not sure what you're playing, but I've never played an MMO that didn't have some sort of gear grind at level cap. If you don't mind, could you toss out a couple titles? Maybe I'll check them out. Asheron's Call 1 and Ultima Online did not really have gear grinds. As a matter of fact most sandboxes do not have a gear grind per se, atleast not the traditional endless treadmill of dungeon-gear-dungeon-gear types, which is what I am referring to.That is probably by sandbox MMOs are so hard to get right because themepark gear grinds are pretty straightforward to implement.True. This is why sandbox games just aren't as popular anymore, though. They just tend to be more complicated, there is a lack of a feeling of progression compared to themeparks, and the community just isn't there to support it, you know? I'm really liking how Shards Online is shaping up, though. It's like a sandbox, but to a different degree for every shard, meaning you can be chaotic sandbox or chaotic themepark and you'll probably find something you like. Other than that, The Repopulation? Maybe? I'm not really sure what's out there right now that's actually implementing these ideas well. It's because the majority of people like direction be it a game or working for someone, which is what theme Park MMO's give. As for me I love me a good sandbox game, but I also know I'm not the majority.Whoa! I almost fell off my chair when you suggested that the sandbox crowd wasn't the majority
I totally agree. I'm not what I would consider a sandbox "fan". I will engage in sandbox games occasionally. I've got The Repop coming and also, hopefully Shards Online (click it and support it), and I've played sandbox games in the past also, but I've always found Themeparks to be more engaging from a gameplay perspective. Sandboxes, however, offer more a more varied gaming experience and more innovative features. You might think of it like baking. A themepark pretty much follows a trusted, true recipe, whereas a sandbox just sort of does stuff on the fly, tries different things, tries to make things better. That's why sandboxes are so important, though. If we're to see any advancement in the genre, I see it coming from a sandbox, not a themepark.
This is why I think 'Sandpark' is the way to go. ArcheAge had the right idea, it's just managed horribly from people who seem not to know what they're doing.
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I don't think you understand the concept of grind. It means you do something repeteadly to gain something. In MOBAs you dont grind to gain something, you play the game for the gameplay only and as soon as you feel bored you can stop as there is no carrot at the end of the tunnel.
I play League of Legends from time to time and there is no reason for me to do it repeatedly as there is no virtual item I am playint for, I just do it for the fun, and when it stops being fun I stop playing. Not so in MMO gear grind, you need to keep doing it until you get your carrot.
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What? No grind? You are doing the same exact thing over and over and over again, are you not? Isn't that what grind is?
What? No grind? You are doing the same exact thing over and over and over again, are you not? Isn't that what grind is?
I think he's referring to the title as in gear grind. There isn't much if at all a gear grind in FPS/RTS/MOBAs.
There's a difference in them as the focus is more based on playing against other players with the level of opportunities being equal rather than having to need to grind for gear to be competitive whether in pve or pvp.
Check out this article on Why Crafting Sucks
Gear grind is a time sink. Games are a time sink.
In the original gear grinds you had decay and the grind was to replace. Now there is 0 decay in most MMO's and they have made the one time through, gear grind ten times longer in an effort to hold the player longer. I am an old school MMO and grind is fine with me. I can gather hides or ore or you name it to convert to gear until the cows come home. I see it as original MMO content but in most of the new games, I can't do it. It feels like I am running to a dead end as fast as I can for the sake of getting there and to me, that's not what MMO's were about.
The only people that can actually claim a point to any "gear grind" must be the individual developer, or whomever is responsible for actually having implemented ideas into their game.
Asking about "the point" for such as if this was meaningful philosophical task, is imo a bad way to approach the issue of game design.
A more sensible way to phrase a question without coming across as pretentious could for example be:
"What could be the point of gear grind?"
"Why is the devs making use of a gear grind in this and that game?".
I also have a problem with thinking of there being a "point" to how a game has been developed. If "gear grinding" was a perceived feature of sorts, and if such came abotu by casual game design, I would seriously question the finesse and merit of any game designer that seem to have insisted on wanting a feature in a game, without ever explaining the rationale for doing so.
Again, the only interesting debate for me about a perceived "gear grind", is just how it could or would make sense with regard to what has actually been stated by game developers for a game.
I'm really not sure what you're playing, but I've never played an MMO that didn't have some sort of gear grind at level cap. If you don't mind, could you toss out a couple titles? Maybe I'll check them out.
Crazkanuk
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Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
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Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Really all game features do the same thing, don't they?
- You gain levels to fight bigger mobs in order to gain levels to fight bigger mobs. Throw in some new abilities/skills/spells and it is even more interesting.
- You craft poor leather armor in order to craft better leather armor and then craft more of that in order to craft the best leather armor.
It is just what each individual player chooses to follow along and when to stop. Some stop quicker than others. If this is ALL the game has to offer, I do not last long there
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Asheron's Call 1 and Ultima Online did not really have gear grinds. As a matter of fact most sandboxes do not have a gear grind per se, atleast not the traditional endless treadmill of dungeon-gear-dungeon-gear types, which is what I am referring to.
That is probably by sandbox MMOs are so hard to get right because themepark gear grinds are pretty straightforward to implement.
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https://www.therepopulation.com - Sci Fi Sandbox.
True.
This is why sandbox games just aren't as popular anymore, though. They just tend to be more complicated, there is a lack of a feeling of progression compared to themeparks, and the community just isn't there to support it, you know? I'm really liking how Shards Online is shaping up, though. It's like a sandbox, but to a different degree for every shard, meaning you can be chaotic sandbox or chaotic themepark and you'll probably find something you like. Other than that, The Repopulation? Maybe? I'm not really sure what's out there right now that's actually implementing these ideas well.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Life is a gear grind and so is every game. "Gear" is interchangeable with any reward or your choosing.
You work so you can get new, maybe better gear, and often to maintain your gear. And then you die.
Or let's look at a pure sandbox like minecraft. You grind (break n build) for your reward (completed building). And you do that over and over for no reason other than to do it (aka because you find it fun).
If a themepark game had a quest that said, "Go to this zone and break 10,000 blocks and you will get a +5 Vorpal Sword" it's no different than someone who breaks 10,000 blocks and says, "Look I made a canyon." In both cases nothing has been achieved other than fun in the eyes of the player.
This post gets it. I wish developers did.
If any textbooks are in need of an example for cognitive dissonance, please see above.
This posts gets it.
Perhaps you could point out the cognitive dissonance rather than just stating it to be there. Making a statement is very different from offering proof of that statement.
This lesson on how to contribute positively to a discussion is brought to you free of charge.
mmorpgs are real life time sinks.Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
It's because the majority of people like direction be it a game or working for someone, which is what theme Park MMO's give.
As for me I love me a good sandbox game, but I also know I'm not the majority.
Could not say better! :-) And what would all this complainers then do if all gear from original Wow would be still best now in Wod? This is the only NATURAL way how it should be.
Whoa! I almost fell off my chair when you suggested that the sandbox crowd wasn't the majority
I totally agree. I'm not what I would consider a sandbox "fan". I will engage in sandbox games occasionally. I've got The Repop coming and also, hopefully Shards Online (click it and support it), and I've played sandbox games in the past also, but I've always found Themeparks to be more engaging from a gameplay perspective. Sandboxes, however, offer more a more varied gaming experience and more innovative features. You might think of it like baking. A themepark pretty much follows a trusted, true recipe, whereas a sandbox just sort of does stuff on the fly, tries different things, tries to make things better. That's why sandboxes are so important, though. If we're to see any advancement in the genre, I see it coming from a sandbox, not a themepark.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Asheron's Call 1 and Ultima Online did not really have gear grinds. As a matter of fact most sandboxes do not have a gear grind per se, atleast not the traditional endless treadmill of dungeon-gear-dungeon-gear types, which is what I am referring to. That is probably by sandbox MMOs are so hard to get right because themepark gear grinds are pretty straightforward to implement.
True. This is why sandbox games just aren't as popular anymore, though. They just tend to be more complicated, there is a lack of a feeling of progression compared to themeparks, and the community just isn't there to support it, you know? I'm really liking how Shards Online is shaping up, though. It's like a sandbox, but to a different degree for every shard, meaning you can be chaotic sandbox or chaotic themepark and you'll probably find something you like. Other than that, The Repopulation? Maybe? I'm not really sure what's out there right now that's actually implementing these ideas well.
It's because the majority of people like direction be it a game or working for someone, which is what theme Park MMO's give. As for me I love me a good sandbox game, but I also know I'm not the majority.
Whoa! I almost fell off my chair when you suggested that the sandbox crowd wasn't the majority
I totally agree. I'm not what I would consider a sandbox "fan". I will engage in sandbox games occasionally. I've got The Repop coming and also, hopefully Shards Online (click it and support it), and I've played sandbox games in the past also, but I've always found Themeparks to be more engaging from a gameplay perspective. Sandboxes, however, offer more a more varied gaming experience and more innovative features. You might think of it like baking. A themepark pretty much follows a trusted, true recipe, whereas a sandbox just sort of does stuff on the fly, tries different things, tries to make things better. That's why sandboxes are so important, though. If we're to see any advancement in the genre, I see it coming from a sandbox, not a themepark.
This is why I think 'Sandpark' is the way to go. ArcheAge had the right idea, it's just managed horribly from people who seem not to know what they're doing.
Same could be said for raiding the same dungeon over and over.