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What WoW has become
Snakex
Member UncommonPosts: 317
Im a Vanillia player. My rogue is roughly 9 years old. What the game is becoming is very obvious now, no longer just a theory.
Leveling is easy, mob killing easy, there is no struggle, iv barley been playing WOD due to queue issues, but yet, im still 96 already, without even trying.
But i did find this video that i thought people should see. Watch it all the way through and really reflect...if you can.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFWh9aY4pas
Leveling is easy, mob killing easy, there is no struggle, iv barley been playing WOD due to queue issues, but yet, im still 96 already, without even trying.
But i did find this video that i thought people should see. Watch it all the way through and really reflect...if you can.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFWh9aY4pas
Comments
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/And yet we have threads in the forums about Nerfing heroics and Nerfing proving grounds.
if you think leveling is easy on your 580 toon roll a new one with 470 gear. I'm sure that will give you a bit of a challenge.
Or people became accustomized to face roll content and forgot all proper things you would do in a dungeon. Like follow the tanks target, don't ignore adds, actual use of CC and no wacking of the sheep because one wants to the top in the dps charts.
I actually boosted a char on a low pop server, zero herilooms or twinking, and while at first was a bit of a struggle but only because I didn't have my full array of abilities but once decently geared stuff was once again facerolling.
People are gonna be screaming nerfs because they are too used to the panda cuddling.
I think it's more about the MMO community's demands changing and the MMOs changing to adapt. As the MMO community grows (which it has tremendously since 10 years ago), MMOs will change to meet the demands of their new audience. The problem with this, of course, is keeping the veteran gamers of the MMO happy. Not sure that's possible as most people are complaining about how difficult or time consuming some of the older MMOs are.
Perfect example of this is that a lot of people complaining about Wildstar being too difficult. It's a game that was not built to appeal to the masses. For this and other reasons, it was having some severe growing pains over the past year. I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happens to WS over the next couple of years simply to boost retention and revenue.
Honestly was thinking about going back to wow just to give it a try again but after seeing this video and a few others meh.
I remember the days when World OF Warcraft was released alone, no Burning Crusade those were my days and I like it compared to what I have seen World OF Warcraft become over the last years with expansions which just ruined the game for me.
Honestly I rather find a really good corporation and be playing EVE or a Sand Box game with a point of crafting and obtain gear rather than playing World OF Warcraft because from what I hear dungeons were completely ruined compared to the old days.
For me I think the issue is that people just dont want to commit to 4 hour blocks several times a week, its far to invasive even for a kid. Blizzard are between a rock and a hard place though, i do have a little sympothy in this area at least - hard content needs coordination and practice, that in turn needs time blocks to learn through repetition their ever increasing layering of boss attacks.
Personally i think the answer is to simplify boss fights greatly and super finely tune bosses instead and also make heroic 5 man rock hard but with great gear - the problem with this is that gear power progression is so fast in WOW this is impossible. Blizzard have got themeselves into a corner with their gear progression model.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I don't see the issue.
WoW sets the bar low so everyone can see all the content.
If you want a challenge, make your own challenge. You don't have to wear the best gear, you don't have to follow the optimal rotation, you don't have to use addons, there are plenty of ways to make the game more challenging if that's what you're really looking for. How about if you die, you have to delete your character and start over? Getting to end game with that stipulation would be pretty challenging.
The issue here is people that complain that the game is too easy aren't actually looking for a higher degree of difficulty. If they were, they'd take my suggestions to heart. What they're actually looking for exclusivity. They want to be able to see the big dragon, the big bosses, and all end game has to offer while at the same time preventing other people from seeing it. They want to use it as a bragging tool to show off to other players just how superior they are.
Now, I'm not saying that that's necessarily a bad thing. It's actually in our instincts as primarily males to put ourselves in competition with each other for the superior to rise to the top and the inferior to walk away. That's just simply not good for business though, as Wildstar has proven.
A more challenging version of WoW would have far less the amount of subscribers, as Cataclysm proved. WotLK wrapped up at over 14 million subs and within 6 months of Cata, that sub number was down to 7 million (half) because Cata was far too difficult for so many players.
I hate to stay this to MMO vets because I remember back to good ole days with Everquest as well. But what you're looking for isn't here anymore. It's too profit driven to ever build a game that blocks people from seeing the entire world.
The guy got through the entire final raid without even *trying*. He was just following them around 99% of the time, and still got the wins.
He shows how, even without really even trying, his damage was still not far off from others', which means either they were only trying slightly harder than he was, or they are just unskilled players.
Yet, they all cleared the raid - the hardest content in the game - and got the win.
Even wearing the best gear you can have prior to reaching that raid, it should still be a challenge. Clearly it isn't.
That's a problem.
Saying WoW has been dumbed down at this point is like saying 'water is wet'. Either is just as obvious.
Once the player in the video stated MoP was shaping up to be the best expansion, there was no need to watch.
The purpose of this video is to demonstrate the problems faced by new players when joining the game and why they do not feel the incentive to advance into the game. This video in no way is suggesting 'wow is too easy' or any other conclusions surrounding that statement people wish to force upon the video. The same goes for 'rose tinted goggles' or special snowflake' and any other nonsensical arguments that are not mentioned in any way
Mis representing the video when the uploader clearly states what it is about?
Ok... That is sort of the point... Dinging up is not designed to be a chore... It is a journey that take you through the story. If you do not care for the story it give you some nice gear upgrades (unless you are in raid gear) and send you off to max level and the end game (what most people enjoy the most... at least among the type of crowd that hang here)
It is part of the "something for everyone" approach that Blizzard have. If you like to do the story... You do the story for what it is and the game is not designed so that you should ding max at the same time as you finish the last quest.
Also the game is balanced around a player with some to full heroic dungeon gear because that is where most people stop their gear journey. Sure thanks to Raidfinder more people have what some "hardcore" players dubbed "welfare epics" but IIRC the medium they use is still HD gear.
The real difficult of the games lay in the top tier raiding and challenge modes.... Not leveling, and that is by design.
Sorry if that is not your cup of tea but Blizzard have to look to that makes the biggest group of people happy, that is how your game succeed.
This have been a good conversation
QFT and I can't say I will miss "old school" mmos where camping dungeons or areas for hours was the pinnacle of mmo design. Too bad Wildstar developers didn't understand that no AAA mmo will survive only with hardcore players and the majority of players have too many options available to stay in a game where they are treated like second class citizens. Now they will have to change the game and go ftp or wait until NCSoft shuts down the servers to cut losses.
Leveling was harder in vanilla because the xp gains were slower and damage overall was lower. The only "hard" parts of leveling were elite quests and even then they weren't hard, just required a group. You still won 99% of all fights while leveling and it was entirely possible to not die during the leveling process....same as now. Leveling was also much more of a process because there was significantly less things to do for endgame than there is now.
Dungeons weren't harder, just longer due to the need to CC and pull. Sure it was fun the first few times, but after a couple of years of the same dungeons, it became extremely tedious.
Raiding wasn't harder....I will say that original Naxx was probably the only exception. Herding 40 people around through massive amounts of trash was the only true hard part of old school raiding.
What vanilla had was massive class imbalances. Outright broken specs. Hardcore elitism. Tedium veiled as content.
Take off the rose colored glasses people.
WoD is the best experience I've had in WoW in a very long time. Leveling seems faster because of how the quests are driven. Multiple chapters of story driven quests make it feel like you're not actually questing, but are engrossed in a story. Silver Dragon Mobs all over that given nice loot and good xps. Bonus events scattered throughout the zones to add more flavor to your questing experience. Not to mention random treasure hunts and tons of little easter eggs to find all over.
What WoW has become is a mmo that still has MILLIONS of subscribers world wide. A game that makes considerable changes every couple of years to the way classes and specs play with the release of every expansion pack. A game that is a decade old and still continues to evolve in fairly significant ways.
Yup, that is fair and reasonable, I am very happy that such a thing exists.
Point in fact: I pre-ordered WoD, boosted my lvl 65 priest to 90, went and did ALL the raids in LFR in 2 weeks, with minimal time investment. So, someone with little time, knowledge or desire to work too much can EXPERIENCE all the content.
I then moved on to Heroics, which took me a month to clear. A whole different beast really. If you don't pull your own weight you get instant-kicked, no questions asked. Not even talking about Mythics, as those were really challenging.
Point is: if you want to EXPERIENCE the content, yes it's easy even for a casual. If you want to COMPLETE the content, go do 0 dmg with PUGs in Mythic, then come back. Saying "I killed the last boss of the game" is utter crap. It's like going "ah yeah I did all Heroic dungeons, because I completed the Normal ones at their level".
You can play Dark Souls with a hack to make you invulnerable, that does NOT mean you completed the game...
I think he hit the nail on the head. I am thoroughly disappointed with what WoW has become and am glad that I have quit it but it was revolutionary once upon a time and I will always celebrate that.
However, in the present, wow is no longer the competitive, fairly challenging game that it used to be.
Nonetheless, I think most games as old as wow are on deaths door at the very least, its surprising that its even still alive.
I personally think the only reason it is still a live is because titan failed so they are trying to milk everything they can out of the people who are in my opinion blindly loyal to wow and refuse to ditch it for modern games.
Btw Wildstar did tank but that's not because it copied vanilla wow, it tanked because by todays standards even vanilla wow is out of date. it still uses ancient gameplay mechanics and graphics.
Having said that, even though wow in the burning crusade is outdated by todays standards, its still better than todays wow which is now super casual and uncompetitive.
good point
EQ2 fan sites
Really? I've played 5 or 6 hours and I'm not even 92 yet. Almost, but not quite. That's doing every quest that's presented to me, reading it, also killing elite mobs in the area. I don't think that the levelling is paced poorly at all. Granted, I've seen anecdotal evidence that people hit 100 in 3 hours. That being said, anyone will find a way to do that.
I think that they have taken steps to increase the difficulty of challenges faced in WoD. Can I pull 6 or 7 mobs at once? Yes I can. However, there has been more challenging fights as well, mob spacing is decreased, dungeon can be a pain if you get in with a healer or tank that doesn't know what they're doing. It's about making it accessible to everyone while still making it challenging for the elite. So finish up the Heroic Raids and then talk to me about how easy it is.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Lmao, this dude is literally taking a very geared toon (compared to launch) though MoP's easiest versions of its launch content.
Anyone judging how hard WoW is by this video needs to go have a very long look at themselves in the mirror lol.
As someone who has mained a paladin since day one of vanilla. If you try to tell me that auto-attacking from 1-60 was a challenge and a struggle, I will Final Verdict your face.
I can't think of a single class that has less interaction now than it did 10 years ago. FFS boomkin druids used to press ONE button, moonfire.
Yeah, real interesting and challenging gameplay. Also, bears didn't tank (some people let them tank a few 5 mans, but tanking was pretty much done by warriors). Speaking of which, Fury was auto-attack + bloodthirst. Wheeeee! So hard.
Let's do a rundown for old times sake:
Mages: Frost - pretty sucky! Frostbolt and cone of cold . . . ? Arcane - No cc, no dps, no survivability. Not used in pve or pvp. Fire - Only okay spec. Still built around fireball, fireblast, and pyroblast. Yay 3 abilities. In PvP, mages went into Arcane to grab Presence of Mind for an instant Pyro every few minutes.
Warlocks: Worst class in game. Not a single viable spec. Pets sucked. Affliction had like 3 dots. Destro was basically affliction with one less dot. Demo was "the leveling spec" because without it you would die because you had no dps, and no survivability. Remember knockback to cast times? Couldn't even cast a single fear without dying.
Paladin - Auto-attack and judgement. Prot couldn't tank, no threat and no survivability. In order for your abilities to proc, you had to get crit. Great a tank that trys to get crit on. Holy = flash of light that's it. 5 minute buffs. How fun was it to spend all night in a 40 man raid rebuffing everyone constantly? So fun.
Warrior - Prot - best and only tank. Has only gotten more abilities over time. Fury - auto-attack and BT. Arms - Mortal Strike and revenge. Sure they used to be able to stance dance, but for what? To use one ability. Wow, much button, so skill.
Rogue - TBH they haven't changed much and have only gained more abilities. Because they're a good class.
Shaman - Enhancement, auto-attack hoping for windfury proc and maybe earthshock to interrupt. Elemental - Frostshock = iwin. They literally did not press any other buttons nor did they need to, frostshock could 2-3 shot anyone, was spammable and it slowed. If you do not remember this, then you did not pvp in vanilla. Resto . . . wait shamans had a resto tree in vanilla? I thought they just pressed frostshock.
Hunter - Auto-attack + pet aggroing all the mobs in an instance + ninja looting every weapon that dropped. Survival spec was useful for . . . nothing. BM was useful for . . . mostly nothing. MM was pretty much it. And still sucked. They've only gained abilities and actually have to interact with their class.
Druid - Did you innervate the priest? Good, you may afk. These guys had horrible underpowered heals that took a ton of mana so they'd go OOM immediately, but because priests were much better healers they were the innervate targets. So basically, heal a couple times, and then sit there until the priest needed more mana. Balance? Sorry. Feral? For leveling.
Priest - Are you a dwarf? Great, you're invited! Disc? Sorry, the princess is in another castle, please try holy. Shadow? I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't let you do that.
The "challenge" was the blizzard made a horribly lopsided game with terrible gear that didn't support any particular spec, with talent trees that were almost entirely useless. Vanilla was great for Prot Warriors, Rogues, Holy Priests, and Fire mages (and Ele shamans in pvp). Every other class and spec was basically junk. Now it may sound as if I disliked vanilla WoW, I abosolutely didn't. I have many fond memories and had lots of fun, I just didn't get to participate in a lot of things the "right" classes/spec did and had to spend a lot of time playing in a way that was really boring (buffing non-stop).
That is 10000000% vanilla WoW in a nutshell.
You sir, won the internet for the day.
All he's doing is a passive-aggressive form of e-peening. Ignore it.
Some Reminders:
No friends/guidlies etc were in the dungeons.
I did 0 damage for the 5 mans and all of the initial LFR's until ToT
I did horrific Damage to appear on the dmg meter in ToT
I was kicked a grand total of once after using /follow as a test.
You missed some of it...
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/