Help- Balanced view of the new CU

Paladin101

I would like for SWG vet's and new players to discuss the CU here. I would like to know the pros and cons of the new upgrade. I think talking about the facts of the game will help determine if this is really a good or bad update for SWG.

Personally i'd like to know more about the combat and the whole leveling system? Has the game become very similiar to WoW where it is impossible to kill something much harder than you? Or or for example is it like the original game where you could kill a Famba before you get into your main profession.

I think it isnt a bad thing that they made levels, it puts your strength and goal to get better more in perspective and a bit easier to understand.

Also is the pvp changed much now? If i were to be a Combat medic with Storm trooper armor would this be a good pvp/pve?

I like how healers are not dependant on a profession anymore so i am considering trying out the new CU. I am always a healer or support healer/offensive caster type player. Shamans/Druids in DaoC, WoW were my favorite class.... combat medic seems to be a very similiar class now with healing and aoe poisons ect.

again a in depth look and discussion would really help a lot of people get the clear image of what SWG is now.

TookyG

First, the combat system is NOT a level system.  It is still a skill progression system.  Character's have always had a hidden combat level the CU just made the number visible.  Also, the combat level now carries with it a damage multiplier, you do more damage to lower level things and less damage to higher level things.

Now that that's out of the way I see the CU as a definite improvement, however, I have always favored keeping the old system and balancing it.  Pre-CU there were serious issues with buffs that doubled stats (in the case of mind stats) and tripled or quadrupled the health and action stats.  Couple those buffs with armor that resists 80% of almost any PvE damage and you can see how things were severely unbalanced.  Obviously, things needed to be changed so we got the CU.

No longer can you attack someones action and mind stats, they are now simply for using specials.  As your combat level increased you gain more health points.  Starting at 1000 and increasing to about 3000.  Species modifiers come into play but they don't have more than a +/- 10% supposedly.

Specials are more universal which is a pretty nifty feature of the CU.  Previously, specials could only be used with their corresponding weapon.  For example, Leg Shot could only be used with carbines, now you can use a pistol or rifle or even heavy weapons to perform that special.

Lots of people have been complaining about various things such as bugs and what not but I haven't come across anything they've described.  Either I'm very lucky in that the professions that my characters have are in good working order (I play 6 different characters spanning 16 professions) or there is a large overstatement by the most vocal forum users about CU issues.

Paladin101

Thanks for the info. Good to know.

MSCav

Negatives are various

The level system on the animals screws up the game. My pal for instance is a level 80 (used to be a master the D&D number system is kinda ghey imo) and he gets into a fight vs 4 45 level monsters. He barely wins and collects a whole 4 experience points for it.

The armor system is horrible. Lets say you want to wear a certain type of armor because it just looks great! Well then you are now limited to what you can be in game.

More lag: I never had much lag until the CU popped up, and this was when over 50,000 people quit the game so it was not like anyone was around to lag me out.

More Bugs:: This game had a ton of bugs from day 1 that never got fixed by the HORRIBLE Support and Customer support. The CU brought in 100x the amount of bugs and if you follow the track record of the Devs for this game, what assurances do you have that all of them will get fixed?? Sure, none can, but the never fixed the problems from day 1, and now what they dont fix with the CU gets piled on.

$15 a month to beta test a game?? Basically the test center showed SOE that they had made a HUGE mistake for telling lies about what the CU was. When the Test Center opened for the CU players were very dissapointed that the unique system was gone and was replaced by a generic looking Eversuck in space. Everyone had been told and read that the CU would tweak the game engine and dynamics not totally overhaul them. On 3 occasions SOE ran a poll to grade the CU 1 to 5. Each time the CU got a marking of 1 out of 5 by over 80%.

No solo aspect:: I liked the solo aspect of the game, NO, not kill everything, but go out on my own and do missions. Now you better find a group to do 99.9% of anything.

Crafter death:: 9 out of 10 crafters have said the CU hurt them the most and I can understand.

Graphics:: Horrible. As a Tera Kasi Master I had great animations and now I got maybe 4 attacks and the animations are horrible

Cross skills:: as a Tera Kasi master, why do I have the same attack as a swordsman?? Huh?? TKM is a hand to hand profession and a swordsman is just that, so why have a similar attack? It is like they just gave up.

the new combat system:: I liked setting up my attacks instead of button mashing now. I could set up a row of attacks and sit back and enjoy the game as if it were my watching my guy in the Star Wars universe. I did not need a timer to let me know when I was going to attack, or now in the CU mash the key or click on the left mouse button.

I know many, MANY people who still play but wish the old unique system were back into place. They are used to the CU, but truly wish the old system had just been fixed as promised and not thrown out. SOE made a huge mistake and are paying for it in teh pocketbook with over 50,000 accounts lost.

Kane

Huh...I get virtually no lag that isn't client side.

Bugs? Yeah...but nothing thats ruined my fun.

No solo? Um...ok...I've played almost exclusively solo and had little if any problem. Grouping is encouraged but is in no way required...as far as being killed by 4 monsters of over half your level...makes sense to me! Combined level is 180, vs your level 80. Not a wise fight.

Everything else you said was just personal taste things...opinions that I wont argue with since, even though I disagree on most of it, you have every right to have.

MSCav

I know many who have more lag, SOE never went into the system to fix the coding.

Bugs, as we both agree, yes are plenty for many.

as far as personal tastes, they are valid answers to the question.

Paladin101

I'm happy the old system is gone, was not good IMO. Although i havent tried then new system yet.
MSCav's views seem justified in some cases. I just don't understand everything he is trying to point out.

TK's animations are gone now?? i don't understand. Did they change the animations and skills in the CU?

I wish someone could go through the CU completely and point out all the new changes good/bad.

although i think the new armor system is awsome how they made it class specific. That will end everyone i see wearing the same composite armor.

Lag was not an issue with me. WoW ran worse to be honest. In wow my character would freeze and slide across the terrian much more often. Also servers are down in WoW often from my expirience

Only things i can't argue with are the Crafter flaws now and some of the info about animatinos ect because i have no idea.

Although the new changes are good in my opinion.

TookyG

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Originally posted by Paladin101

I wish someone could go through the CU completely and point out all the new changes good/bad.

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There are just far too many changes to do this in any decent amount of time.  You could probably fill several pages of posts just going patch note by patch note and giving the pros and cons of it.

Your best bet would be to download a trial of the game and see if you like it or not.

MSCav

My pal is still dealing with the "rubberband" effect yesterday in SWG. He was so upset with the game he almost quit. He says the CU sucks but he is used to it, but to ahve such a bad "rubberband" effect (basically from Jabbas Palace to the nearest town) was worse than ever before.

Kane

I've experienced rubberbanding (very minor) twice. It seems to vary server by server.

MSCav

He was on the bria server.

Paladin101

I'd like to know how the exp from pve and for pvp has changed, if it has at all? Is the game quicker to level or harder now? Before getting to a master profession was quite easy at the release when i played. FP's were a pain to get compared to exp although not that bad still.

Is ranged combat beter now? I remember my TKA could run up to people from yards away and just totally annihilate anyone just about. Is ranged combat more deadly/accurate?

Also is there a large amount of good weaponry so there isnt all the same blasters and rifles being used by everyone? I remeber before my riflemen friend would use different rifles in different situations. At long range the t-21 would be good, then at close quaters the Spray Stick would be better suited for the job.

Can you have many faction npc's with you (storm troopers, at-st) or are you limited now? I wanted to be a squad leader/ riflemen and have a squad of storm troopers. Although having players in Storm trooper armor would be much better in clans.

Does it feel like your in the Galatic War now, in the early days of SWG i didn't hardly see any large battles between NPC's or see AT-AT/ AT-ST's assaulting rebel bases too often. Although toward the end of my expirience there were many weekly events where battles would be going on.

Do wookies have viable weaponry/armor now. Before the bowcaster was my favorite looking rifle but it really sucked, can you use one and actually do well with one at different skill levels?

Can you work for Jabba the hutt and actually do good quests and make good money? My first visit to jabba's palace was amazing but i was really disappointed by the bad quests and even worse rewards for them. Many of the most exciting places/people i saw in the movies ect turned out to be a let down.

Are driods useful at all? I never saw anyone with a good combat driod, medic, or anything. It is Star Wars and i never once saw a driod be effective or useful at anything. Although i had a medical driod before, he was only good for rp purposes. Ive seen a broken down driodeka in Theed before...never seen anyone make one or as an npc before though.

Are comabt buffs gone? Buffs were incrediblely un-balanced and ridiculous.

These are just a few things i'd like to know, any info would be great. Thanks

Paladin101

THere isnt any trials avalaible right now from what i see?

LuRavi

I've been lurking on the offcial forums and the forums on this website, reading about the CU...

I've seen people post what level type their character is, and what lvl monsters are. I know they did not have that before the CU, can someone explain why they put it in now?

I kinda enjoyed the idea of not having levels in a game.

Paladin101

Well from what ive been told, levels have always been there just not aparant, until now. I personally like that you can see the level now because you know if you can handle a fight with the creature or player.

tehnoob

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Originally posted by Paladin101

I'd like to know how the exp from pve and for pvp has changed, if it has at all? Is the game quicker to level or harder now?
Quicker if you group, all group members now get full xp for killing (whatever)and all you have to do is shoot whatever your team is killing once to get the xp.
Before getting to a master profession was quite easy at the release when i played. FP's were a pain to get compared to exp although not that bad still.
FP is just as easy to get as it was before, you just have to know where to get it
Is ranged combat beter now? I remember my TKA could run up to people from yards away and just totally annihilate anyone just about. Is ranged combat more deadly/accurate?
Ranged combat is WAAAY better now, as a matter of fact, i hardly see Melee fighters anymore.
Also is there a large amount of good weaponry so there isnt all the same blasters and rifles being used by everyone? I remeber before my riflemen friend would use different rifles in different situations. At long range the t-21 would be good, then at close quaters the Spray Stick would be better suited for the job.
Lotsa weapons, good stuff   Although, what was really good back in the day, may be crap now...and what was crap may be the best.
Can you have many faction npc's with you (storm troopers, at-st) or are you limited now? I wanted to be a squad leader/ riflemen and have a squad of storm troopers. Although having players in Storm trooper armor would be much better in clans.
Im not sure on that one, but i think it's still limted.
Does it feel like your in the Galatic War now, in the early days of SWG i didn't hardly see any large battles between NPC's or see AT-AT/ AT-ST's assaulting rebel bases too often. Although toward the end of my expirience there were many weekly events where battles would be going on.
That depends.  There is no more covert/overt now.  There are "On Leave(you are not taking place in the GCW)", "Combatant(You are taking place in the GCW, NPC's of the opposite faction will attack you on site, but you cannot attack/be attacked by players of the opposite faction", and "Special forces (NPC's and players of the opposite faction may kill you on site)"  If you play as combatant, you get more of a feel of being in the GCW.  Also there are factional spawns all over existing cities now.  Say imperials have more bases on corellia, you will see Coronet and many other cities on corellia crawling with imp soldiers.  But thats pretty much it....nothing major.  I think the next major thing they are working on is the GCW, wich has needed a lot of work for a long time.
Do wookies have viable weaponry/armor now. Before the bowcaster was my favorite looking rifle but it really sucked, can you use one and actually do well with one at different skill levels?
Wookies have a few sets of armor, dunno how good the bowcaster is now though
Can you work for Jabba the hutt and actually do good quests and make good money? My first visit to jabba's palace was amazing but i was really disappointed by the bad quests and even worse rewards for them. Many of the most exciting places/people i saw in the movies ect turned out to be a let down.
While the themeparks may look cool, they're very boring, and they pay chump change...its no more different now than it use to be.
Are driods useful at all? I never saw anyone with a good combat driod, medic, or anything. It is Star Wars and i never once saw a driod be effective or useful at anything. Although i had a medical driod before, he was only good for rp purposes. Ive seen a broken down driodeka in Theed before...never seen anyone make one or as an npc before though.
Sorry, only droids i ever use are seekers and probots...i think they still pretty much suck though.
Are comabt buffs gone? Buffs were incrediblely un-balanced and ridiculous.
They,re not gone, but MAJORLY toned down, they're much more balanced now.
These are just a few things i'd like to know, any info would be great. Thanks

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Paladin101

Thanks a lot tehnoob ! I appreciate the response. Seems like the game has improved a lot. I wish you could work for jabba and have those 3rd party factions more viable to play for.

The best thing though is the group exping. It was terrible before.... i suppose powerleveling is possible now. Which i liked about DaoC. It also lets you play with people or friends who are higher leveled than you.

I know they are making bowcasters better, i wasn't sure if that was in the game yet or they are releasing it soon. I saw a patch note that said bow casters have different levels of power. Light, medium and heavy armed bowcasters. So i suppose they are or will be.

I remeber that before with enough FP you could call in airstrikes, AT-AT's ect but i never saw it happen.

JestorRodo

Muhahaha "rubberbanding" , boy do I miss that - not

Elnator

I'm going to reply to the original post as much as possible though I may address some issues I've seen in other posts:

Pre CU:

• It was possible, with buffs, to solo almost anything in the game.
• It was required to get buffs, to even put most armor on.
• Because of 1 and 2 above nobody ever grouped, except for PVP, and even then some people solo'd.
• Jedi were out of control
• The only types of "Group" I ever found were "solo groups" where everyone groups up so they can take on the hardest stuff in the game off the terminals and then go solo them with 'god mode' buffs and armor on.
• Stacker Templates were GOD.... It was better to be a mish-mash of an amalgam of professions than to truely Master any of them. (not exactly a BAD thing except in a few certain circumstances)
• MELEE templates were GOD. It was nearly pointless to have a ranged template because Melee templates were so much more powerful.
• It was better to be a Master Melee (fencer/TK/Swordsman/Pikeman) than to be a Master Bounty Hunter when hunting Jedi (bad thing)
• DOCS were beloved and respected, without them you couldn't even wear armor. Docs sat on their ass all day buffing people. (Some folks actually LIKED this???)
• Entertainers had 100% control of who they buffed.
• Game was relatively bug-free by now. Most having been stomped along the way of it's growth.

Post CU:

• You cannot solo some things, as designed. The CU removed the ability to solo extreme high end content. In my opinion this is a good thing. However, any content near your level is very solo-able. I wouldn't recommend taking on more than 1 or 2 enemies at a time though. The most I can safely take (and only if they're lower than me) is 3 blues or greens. More than that will usually kill you quick.
• It is no longer required to get buffs, you can put your armor on without them. You can even hunt, and solo, without them.
• Grouping is superior to solo in that you will gain experience faster, safer and more reliably than solo. You can also use a more custom-specific template than a generic template if you group than if you solo. If you solo you must have some healing ability of your own, which dilutes your combat ability.
• Solo is still very possible. As mentioned before I solo pretty regularly (though I prefer grouping, my schedule prevents it to some extent however). I'm able to take on NPC missions up to CL82 solo. The big difference between old solo and new solo is that you can't solo an entire lair at once anymore.
• Stacker Templates are still good but not better than Master Templates.
• Ranged professions are now balanced with, and even possibly slightly more powerful than, melee professions. (This has irritated the Melee stackers to no end but is good for the game as it feels a lot more like star wars now).
• Master Bounty Hunter is now far superior to a Melee profession for hunting Jedi (makes sense, yes?)
• All of the most restrictive professions have had their requirements eased up so that you can specialize in more areas. Giving players much more control over their templates.
• Doctors are still very respected and very much needed. Though people don't need their buffs as much they ARE extremely helpful. Also Docs are the only ones who can heal wounds (which, if ignored, can become a major problem).
• Entertainers can control who gets to get their buffs and even force them to pay when doing "AFK" dancing if they so desire with the /covercharge option.
• Several new bugs introduced with the CU because of fundamental changes to the engine. The most annoying are the mission affecting and entertainer bug.

Overall I like the CU. I think it was very well thought out and is a pretty good thing overall. I agree it would have been nice to just "tweak" the old system but I'm not convinced that was possible. There were too many different variables in it. Narrowing the variables down in the way that they did allowed the Devs to balance things more quickly and more easily. I honestly don't think we'd have ever seen a true rebalance/revamp under the old system with so many variables to try to properly balance.

I like the game more post-CU than I did Pre-CU despite the introduction of the new bugs. I have confidence that they'll be fixed because they have direct and visible impact on every player in the game. SOE doesn't 'ignore' bugs like that... ever. I've played their games from Tanarus to EQ2 (including SWG) and no play-affecting-visible-to-100%-of-the-playerbase bug has ever gone unstomped for very long. More rare bugs, sure, but not stuff like what's popped up with the CU.

As a vet player I miss the old system. But I like the new one better.

Paladin101

The New CU sounds amazing now, it is exactly what i wanted from the begining just about. The Buffing before and not being able to wear armor without them was so terrible. I'm happy that is long gone.

The only thing id like to see are large scale battles with At-ST's assaulting bases (like ecko base at hoth) and large space fleet battles.... then SWG would be the best game ever made. Other than that the new CU sounds great to me .