"I remember thinking when playing SWG Pre CU "if they can deliver this now, I cannot wait in 10 years time to have much more world simulation going on" and it never happened."
I just had to quote this..what the hell happened? We have gone backwards in time and not just for mmorpg's but for single player games as well. I can not fathom how much linear and dumbed down modern games are.
What happened is games (single player and MMORPG) have been deliberating going after larger and larger audiences. It's not a problem of nostalgia. It's not the same ol' same ol' of older generations saying "back in my day." There are actual changes taking place and it's caused games to be more and more mediocre, more and more watered down, and less niche.
People collect classic cars because they can, they still exist. Retro gamers collect Atari 2600 games because they can, they still exist. I cannot go play an old MMO. I can't, because they don't exist.
What are you talking about? Aren't UO & EQ still running?
People collect classic cars because they can, they still exist. Retro gamers collect Atari 2600 games because they can, they still exist. I cannot go play an old MMO. I can't, because they don't exist.
What are you talking about? Aren't UO & EQ still running?
"I remember thinking when playing SWG Pre CU "if they can deliver this now, I cannot wait in 10 years time to have much more world simulation going on" and it never happened."
I just had to quote this..what the hell happened? We have gone backwards in time and not just for mmorpg's but for single player games as well. I can not fathom how much linear and dumbed down modern games are.
What happened is games (single player and MMORPG) have been deliberating going after larger and larger audiences. It's not a problem of nostalgia. It's not the same ol' same ol' of older generations saying "back in my day." There are actual changes taking place and it's caused games to be more and more mediocre, more and more watered down, and less niche.
It could be looking at the past for your feelings about the future. As in: OMG this forthcoming game is going to be the next SWG! Oh the feels. But when the game comes out reality hits.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
People collect classic cars because they can, they still exist. Retro gamers collect Atari 2600 games because they can, they still exist. I cannot go play an old MMO. I can't, because they don't exist.
What are you talking about? Aren't UO & EQ still running?
Yeah and this "GTO" is still running too.
yes, you can still ride it around, as you can still play UO & EQ. The statement "I cannot go play an old MMO. I can't, because they don't exist." .. is clearly not true.
People collect classic cars because they can, they still exist. Retro gamers collect Atari 2600 games because they can, they still exist. I cannot go play an old MMO. I can't, because they don't exist.
What are you talking about? Aren't UO & EQ still running?
Yeah and this "GTO" is still running too.
yes, you can still ride it around, as you can still play UO & EQ. The statement "I cannot go play an old MMO. I can't, because they don't exist." .. is clearly not true.
You completely missed the point of that picture. A GTO is meant to be a bad ass looking car, but that has been altered so much it now looks like a clown car. EQ has been altered so much it is no longer the same game as it was back in it's glory days.
People collect classic cars because they can, they still exist. Retro gamers collect Atari 2600 games because they can, they still exist. I cannot go play an old MMO. I can't, because they don't exist.
What are you talking about? Aren't UO & EQ still running?
Yeah and this "GTO" is still running too.
yes, you can still ride it around, as you can still play UO & EQ. The statement "I cannot go play an old MMO. I can't, because they don't exist." .. is clearly not true.
Really????????
I'm sorry, but I have to ask........
Are you just being deliberate for the sake of the argument? It's the only plausible explanation for your reply.
You are hanging on a technicality in my sentence instead of reading the context of what I am saying.
You know damn well what I mean.
This is the "experience" that no longer exists in the MMO world
Edit:
If only I could afford that hobby, I'd probably not care much about old MMOs.
People collect classic cars because they can, they still exist. Retro gamers collect Atari 2600 games because they can, they still exist. I cannot go play an old MMO. I can't, because they don't exist.
What are you talking about? Aren't UO & EQ still running?
Yeah and this "GTO" is still running too.
Hey Hey we're the Monkey's.... and people say we monkey around
People collect classic cars because they can, they still exist. Retro gamers collect Atari 2600 games because they can, they still exist. I cannot go play an old MMO. I can't, because they don't exist.
What are you talking about? Aren't UO & EQ still running?
Yeah and this "GTO" is still running too.
Hey Hey we're the Monkey's.... and people say we monkey around
"I remember thinking when playing SWG Pre CU "if they can deliver this now, I cannot wait in 10 years time to have much more world simulation going on" and it never happened."
I just had to quote this..what the hell happened? We have gone backwards in time and not just for mmorpg's but for single player games as well. I can not fathom how much linear and dumbed down modern games are.
What happened is games (single player and MMORPG) have been deliberating going after larger and larger audiences. It's not a problem of nostalgia. It's not the same ol' same ol' of older generations saying "back in my day." There are actual changes taking place and it's caused games to be more and more mediocre, more and more watered down, and less niche.
It could be looking at the past for your feelings about the future. As in: OMG this forthcoming game is going to be the next SWG! Oh the feels. But when the game comes out reality hits.
People try to make the claim that the reason we love the old games so much is because of nostalgia. The problem with this claim is that games WERE more niche back then, they appealed to a smaller audience. And obviously more niche products are going to appeal to their smaller base in a much more potent way than more mainstream products will appeal to theirs.
People collect classic cars because they can, they still exist. Retro gamers collect Atari 2600 games because they can, they still exist. I cannot go play an old MMO. I can't, because they don't exist.
What are you talking about? Aren't UO & EQ still running?
Yeah and this "GTO" is still running too.
yes, you can still ride it around, as you can still play UO & EQ. The statement "I cannot go play an old MMO. I can't, because they don't exist." .. is clearly not true.
Really????????
I'm sorry, but I have to ask........
Are you just being deliberate for the sake of the argument? It's the only plausible explanation for your reply.
You are hanging on a technicality in my sentence instead of reading the context of what I am saying.
You know damn well what I mean.
This is the "experience" that no longer exists in the MMO world
Edit:
If only I could afford that hobby, I'd probably not care much about old MMOs.
More like this:
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
People collect classic cars because they can, they still exist. Retro gamers collect Atari 2600 games because they can, they still exist. I cannot go play an old MMO. I can't, because they don't exist.
What are you talking about? Aren't UO & EQ still running?
Yeah and this "GTO" is still running too.
yes, you can still ride it around, as you can still play UO & EQ. The statement "I cannot go play an old MMO. I can't, because they don't exist." .. is clearly not true.
Really????????
I'm sorry, but I have to ask........
Are you just being deliberate for the sake of the argument? It's the only plausible explanation for your reply.
You are hanging on a technicality in my sentence instead of reading the context of what I am saying.
You know damn well what I mean.
This is the "experience" that no longer exists in the MMO world
Edit:
If only I could afford that hobby, I'd probably not care much about old MMOs.
More like this:
So you think modern MMOs are just as good or better than the great oldschool MMOs, in their own time?
So you think modern MMOs are just as good or better than the great oldschool MMOs, in their own time?
I love games and I loved pen & paper RPGs. Old school MMOs weren't good as games or as RPGs. In my eyes, MMORPGs have improved significantly by embracing their game aspect.
Sort of how Oculus Rift games are riding on the wave of novelty right now despite great majority of them being very bad, similarly old school MMORPGs "rode the wave" back then.
Yes, you were playing a multiplayer game, but the gameplay was horrid. I've never enjoyed grind, spawncamping or trinity combat and old school games had tons of it.
A friend of mine loved this game, Endless Ages, a first-person MMORPG when it came out, but now after having a chance to revisit it, he wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole. No way would he turn back to that simplistic combat, that aggro manipulation and endless grind. No way. Now he sees how I saw those games back then.
I have no love for old school MMORPGs.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
So you think modern MMOs are just as good or better than the great oldschool MMOs, in their own time?
I love games and I loved pen & paper RPGs. Old school MMOs weren't good as games or as RPGs. In my eyes, MMORPGs have improved significantly by embracing their game aspect.
Sort of how Oculus Rift games are riding on the wave of novelty right now despite great majority of them being very bad, similarly old school MMORPGs "rode the wave" back then.
Yes, you were playing a multiplayer game, but the gameplay was horrid. I've never enjoyed grind, spawncamping or trinity combat and old school games had tons of it.
A friend of mine loved this game, Endless Ages, a first-person MMORPG when it came out, but now after having a chance to revisit it, he wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole. No way would he turn back to that simplistic combat, that aggro manipulation and endless grind. No way. Now he sees how I saw those games back then.
I have no love for old school MMORPGs.
But just because YOU didn't like the gameplay, doesn't mean other people didn't like the gameplay. The shift in the genre that you're describing has been accompanied by a widening of the playerbase.... significantly. Do you deny that this increase in the playerbase inherently makes it harder to appeal as strongly to each person? In other words, in order to serve SOOOOO many more people now, MMO's can't serve individual people as well. They have to tone down certain aspects that some players may love, because other players may hate them. There's a reason that people who are really into certain things (music, movies, etc) tend to find their own niche that fits their interests the most.
Your last paragraph indicates that you missed the part where I said "in their own time." In other words, sure it's hard to go back and enjoy an older, dated game because it is just that, dated. But are you telling me your friend didn't *actually* love the game when he played it?
So you think modern MMOs are just as good or better than the great oldschool MMOs, in their own time?
I love games and I loved pen & paper RPGs. Old school MMOs weren't good as games or as RPGs. In my eyes, MMORPGs have improved significantly by embracing their game aspect.
Sort of how Oculus Rift games are riding on the wave of novelty right now despite great majority of them being very bad, similarly old school MMORPGs "rode the wave" back then.
Yes, you were playing a multiplayer game, but the gameplay was horrid. I've never enjoyed grind, spawncamping or trinity combat and old school games had tons of it.
A friend of mine loved this game, Endless Ages, a first-person MMORPG when it came out, but now after having a chance to revisit it, he wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole. No way would he turn back to that simplistic combat, that aggro manipulation and endless grind. No way. Now he sees how I saw those games back then.
I have no love for old school MMORPGs.
But just because YOU didn't like the gameplay, doesn't mean other people didn't like the gameplay. The shift in the genre that you're describing has been accompanied by a widening of the playerbase.... significantly. Do you deny that this increase in the playerbase inherently makes it harder to appeal as strongly to each person? In other words, in order to serve SOOOOO many more people now, MMO's can't serve individual people as well. They have to tone down certain aspects that some players may love, because other players may hate them. There's a reason that people who are really into certain things (music, movies, etc) tend to find their own niche that fits their interests the most.
No. I understand why would would think so, but it is not necessary. Mainstream is a niche like any other only it is called mainstream because it is the biggest niche. To get the biggest audience for your game, you don't need to tone down or dumb down anything. You can just find the biggest niche i.e. the largest group of people that have the same preferences and offer them the best game you can make (for them).
Your last paragraph indicates that you missed the part where I said "in their own time." In other words, sure it's hard to go back and enjoy an older, dated game because it is just that, dated. But are you telling me your friend didn't *actually* love the game when he played it?
But if you read the paragraph more carefully, you'll notice the final sentence said "Now he sees how I saw those games back then" meaning I saw them in much the same way as I see them now. My friend liked them in their own time, but I didn't.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
So you think modern MMOs are just as good or better than the great oldschool MMOs, in their own time?
I love games and I loved pen & paper RPGs. Old school MMOs weren't good as games or as RPGs. In my eyes, MMORPGs have improved significantly by embracing their game aspect.
Sort of how Oculus Rift games are riding on the wave of novelty right now despite great majority of them being very bad, similarly old school MMORPGs "rode the wave" back then.
Yes, you were playing a multiplayer game, but the gameplay was horrid. I've never enjoyed grind, spawncamping or trinity combat and old school games had tons of it.
A friend of mine loved this game, Endless Ages, a first-person MMORPG when it came out, but now after having a chance to revisit it, he wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole. No way would he turn back to that simplistic combat, that aggro manipulation and endless grind. No way. Now he sees how I saw those games back then.
I have no love for old school MMORPGs.
But just because YOU didn't like the gameplay, doesn't mean other people didn't like the gameplay. The shift in the genre that you're describing has been accompanied by a widening of the playerbase.... significantly. Do you deny that this increase in the playerbase inherently makes it harder to appeal as strongly to each person? In other words, in order to serve SOOOOO many more people now, MMO's can't serve individual people as well. They have to tone down certain aspects that some players may love, because other players may hate them. There's a reason that people who are really into certain things (music, movies, etc) tend to find their own niche that fits their interests the most.
No. I understand why would would think so, but it is not necessary. Mainstream is a niche like any other only it is called mainstream because it is the biggest niche. To get the biggest audience for your game, you don't need to tone down or dumb down anything. You can just find the biggest niche i.e. the largest group of people that have the same preferences and offer them the best game you can make (for them).
Well I said it makes it harder to appeal to each individual person, and that's completely correct. It's possible that the 10 million people playing WoW just HAPPEN to have just as much overlap in their interests as the whatever, 100k people who played UO, it's just not really all that likely. In reality, there is no group of players whose interests line up absolutely perfectly. I'm sure almost invariably, aside from QUALITY improvements, as in unobjectionable things like graphics or load times or whatever else, if you do things to your game specifically designed to appeal to MORE people, you're appealing to those people less deeply.
And given how this same phenomenon happens in every other genre of entertainment, I'm not sure on what grounds you're claiming that this isn't the same phenomenon.
Your last paragraph indicates that you missed the part where I said "in their own time." In other words, sure it's hard to go back and enjoy an older, dated game because it is just that, dated. But are you telling me your friend didn't *actually* love the game when he played it?
But if you read the paragraph more carefully, you'll notice the final sentence said "Now he sees how I saw those games back then" meaning I saw them in much the same way as I see them now. My friend liked them in their own time, but I didn't.
Well no your point was that he now doesn't like them, but that doesn't mean anything. He liked them back then. Who cares if he now agrees with you retroactively? That doesn't mean you were right to not like grinding or simplistic combat.
People collect classic cars because they can, they still exist. Retro gamers collect Atari 2600 games because they can, they still exist. I cannot go play an old MMO. I can't, because they don't exist.
What are you talking about? Aren't UO & EQ still running?
Yeah and this "GTO" is still running too.
yes, you can still ride it around, as you can still play UO & EQ. The statement "I cannot go play an old MMO. I can't, because they don't exist." .. is clearly not true.
Really????????
I'm sorry, but I have to ask........
Are you just being deliberate for the sake of the argument? It's the only plausible explanation for your reply.
You are hanging on a technicality in my sentence instead of reading the context of what I am saying.
You know damn well what I mean.
This is the "experience" that no longer exists in the MMO world
Edit:
If only I could afford that hobby, I'd probably not care much about old MMOs.
More like this:
You missed the point entirely. This isn't about "your opinion vs. mine". It's about my opinion vs. what I am being told my opinion "really" is. I don't care if we call it a horse drawn carriage. Call it a steaming pile of shit for all I care, I still can't drive one whether I want to or not. Those were the games I'd prefer to play but they don't exist. You don't care much for old school MMOs, I do. You are in the majority, I'm not. You have many games to choose from, I have none. It's not "Rose colored glasses" to say I want to play one.
You missed the point entirely. This isn't about "your opinion vs. mine". It's about my opinion vs. what I am being told my opinion "really" is. I don't care if we call it a horse drawn carriage. Call it a steaming pile of shit for all I care, I still can't drive one whether I want to or not. Those were the games I'd prefer to play but they don't exist. You don't care much for old school MMOs, I do. You are in the majority, I'm not. You have many games to choose from, I have none. It's not "Rose colored glasses" to say I want to play one.
If people said "hey I would like to play a game like this or that again" very few would have much to say... The problem is it's rarely or maybe never presented in such a way here... Most of the time people can't say such without passive aggressively attacking current games, or those who play them. Hence the back and forth that almost always ensues with such statements.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You missed the point entirely. This isn't about "your opinion vs. mine". It's about my opinion vs. what I am being told my opinion "really" is. I don't care if we call it a horse drawn carriage. Call it a steaming pile of shit for all I care, I still can't drive one whether I want to or not. Those were the games I'd prefer to play but they don't exist. You don't care much for old school MMOs, I do. You are in the majority, I'm not. You have many games to choose from, I have none. It's not "Rose colored glasses" to say I want to play one.
If people said "hey I would like to play a game like this or that again" very few would have much to say... The problem is it's rarely or maybe never presented in such a way here... Most of the time people can't say such without passive aggressively attacking current games, or those who play them. Hence the back and forth that almost always ensues with such statements.
But the whole argument in this thread is coming from fans of newer games saying, "These new games simply ARE better than the old ones" as an implied fact. Therefore, anyone saying otherwise MUST be wrong. I am arguing, saying, I'm not wrong for wanting a game that plays like old school, and every time, the argument back is. "More people like the new games" As if that should be proof enough that I really don't want an old school MMO, I only think I do because of what the majority likes.
I looked up the word "nostalgia" in the dictionary. It said, "A sentimental or wistful affection for shitty, outdated video games."
This statement is just pathetic. There is nothing wrong with liking games from 20 years ago. I can still play Mario 3 and have fun. You are either 12 or had a terrible childhood.
I say if you like the older mmo's like i do,well just play them and have fun. You don't have to have anyone here to tell you what game to play. If you do then you spend way to much time on these forums then playing a game you like. So freakingg what if its a pre Wow mmo. Whats really great about the older games is the older community in most of them. DAOC still has alot of players in it and they are mostly nice and helpful of new players.
You missed the point entirely. This isn't about "your opinion vs. mine". It's about my opinion vs. what I am being told my opinion "really" is. I don't care if we call it a horse drawn carriage. Call it a steaming pile of shit for all I care, I still can't drive one whether I want to or not. Those were the games I'd prefer to play but they don't exist. You don't care much for old school MMOs, I do. You are in the majority, I'm not. You have many games to choose from, I have none. It's not "Rose colored glasses" to say I want to play one.
If people said "hey I would like to play a game like this or that again" very few would have much to say... The problem is it's rarely or maybe never presented in such a way here... Most of the time people can't say such without passive aggressively attacking current games, or those who play them. Hence the back and forth that almost always ensues with such statements.
But the whole argument in this thread is coming from fans of newer games saying, "These new games simply ARE better than the old ones" as an implied fact. Therefore, anyone saying otherwise MUST be wrong. I am arguing, saying, I'm not wrong for wanting a game that plays like old school, and every time, the argument back is. "More people like the new games" As if that should be proof enough that I really don't want an old school MMO, I only think I do because of what the majority likes.
Are you familiar with the OP at all? HE was one of the key people I was thinking of in my post... I too am an old school player, I talk up SWG all the time, as it was the pinnacle of MMORPGs to me, I just don't down other games in the process. However, I perfectly understand why his threads get the heat they do.. As well as why he has to question his right to his nostalgia in the first place.. It's rarely about his nostalgia that people express the thoughts toward him they do. That could be said about many people here...
Arguing about which games are better is like politics to me, IE something that should be avoided. As there is no end to said debate.. That shouldn't be the point of such a thread anyway. The problem is you reap what you sow. Constantly bring up such points, it follows you in every thread you make..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Hariken I say if you like the older mmo's like i do,well just play them and have fun. You don't have to have anyone here to tell you what game to play. If you do then you spend way to much time on these forums then playing a game you like. So freakingg what if its a pre Wow mmo. Whats really great about the older games is the older community in most of them. DAOC still has alot of players in it and they are mostly nice and helpful of new players.
The only game that I played from that generation of MMOs that is still technically running, is Anarchy Online.
There are 2 problems I have playing it.
1. It truly is no longer the game I liked. Not since Funcom went full on P2W cash shop a few years ago. I'd still pay it's $15.00 a month. But not with FC's cash shop to boot.
2. Even all that aside, I can't look at the game. It's unplayable. The game client has nbever been technically updated and still runs on DX7. (Yes, DX7) While my video card has legacy support for D7, it renders it so horribly that the game is full of distortion. Imagine every surface, every back ground, every mesh and texture were rendered as though you were looking at it through a desert mirage and on top of that, every line in the game that was not perfectly horizontal or vertical was rendered with visible saw teeth from any distance, and when I moved, the teeth did too. Every single angled line in the game became a running buzz saw.
Comments
What happened is games (single player and MMORPG) have been deliberating going after larger and larger audiences. It's not a problem of nostalgia. It's not the same ol' same ol' of older generations saying "back in my day." There are actual changes taking place and it's caused games to be more and more mediocre, more and more watered down, and less niche.
What are you talking about? Aren't UO & EQ still running?
Yeah and this "GTO" is still running too.
It could be looking at the past for your feelings about the future. As in: OMG this forthcoming game is going to be the next SWG! Oh the feels. But when the game comes out reality hits.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
yes, you can still ride it around, as you can still play UO & EQ. The statement "I cannot go play an old MMO. I can't, because they don't exist." .. is clearly not true.
You completely missed the point of that picture. A GTO is meant to be a bad ass looking car, but that has been altered so much it now looks like a clown car. EQ has been altered so much it is no longer the same game as it was back in it's glory days.
Really????????
I'm sorry, but I have to ask........
Are you just being deliberate for the sake of the argument? It's the only plausible explanation for your reply.
You are hanging on a technicality in my sentence instead of reading the context of what I am saying.
You know damn well what I mean.
This is the "experience" that no longer exists in the MMO world
Edit:
If only I could afford that hobby, I'd probably not care much about old MMOs.
Hey Hey we're the Monkey's.... and people say we monkey around
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
How apropos for the analogy.
People try to make the claim that the reason we love the old games so much is because of nostalgia. The problem with this claim is that games WERE more niche back then, they appealed to a smaller audience. And obviously more niche products are going to appeal to their smaller base in a much more potent way than more mainstream products will appeal to theirs.
More like this:
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
So you think modern MMOs are just as good or better than the great oldschool MMOs, in their own time?
I love games and I loved pen & paper RPGs. Old school MMOs weren't good as games or as RPGs. In my eyes, MMORPGs have improved significantly by embracing their game aspect.
Sort of how Oculus Rift games are riding on the wave of novelty right now despite great majority of them being very bad, similarly old school MMORPGs "rode the wave" back then.
Yes, you were playing a multiplayer game, but the gameplay was horrid. I've never enjoyed grind, spawncamping or trinity combat and old school games had tons of it.
A friend of mine loved this game, Endless Ages, a first-person MMORPG when it came out, but now after having a chance to revisit it, he wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole. No way would he turn back to that simplistic combat, that aggro manipulation and endless grind. No way. Now he sees how I saw those games back then.
I have no love for old school MMORPGs.I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
But just because YOU didn't like the gameplay, doesn't mean other people didn't like the gameplay. The shift in the genre that you're describing has been accompanied by a widening of the playerbase.... significantly. Do you deny that this increase in the playerbase inherently makes it harder to appeal as strongly to each person? In other words, in order to serve SOOOOO many more people now, MMO's can't serve individual people as well. They have to tone down certain aspects that some players may love, because other players may hate them. There's a reason that people who are really into certain things (music, movies, etc) tend to find their own niche that fits their interests the most.
Your last paragraph indicates that you missed the part where I said "in their own time." In other words, sure it's hard to go back and enjoy an older, dated game because it is just that, dated. But are you telling me your friend didn't *actually* love the game when he played it?
No. I understand why would would think so, but it is not necessary. Mainstream is a niche like any other only it is called mainstream because it is the biggest niche. To get the biggest audience for your game, you don't need to tone down or dumb down anything. You can just find the biggest niche i.e. the largest group of people that have the same preferences and offer them the best game you can make (for them).
But if you read the paragraph more carefully, you'll notice the final sentence said "Now he sees how I saw those games back then" meaning I saw them in much the same way as I see them now. My friend liked them in their own time, but I didn't.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Well I said it makes it harder to appeal to each individual person, and that's completely correct. It's possible that the 10 million people playing WoW just HAPPEN to have just as much overlap in their interests as the whatever, 100k people who played UO, it's just not really all that likely. In reality, there is no group of players whose interests line up absolutely perfectly. I'm sure almost invariably, aside from QUALITY improvements, as in unobjectionable things like graphics or load times or whatever else, if you do things to your game specifically designed to appeal to MORE people, you're appealing to those people less deeply.
And given how this same phenomenon happens in every other genre of entertainment, I'm not sure on what grounds you're claiming that this isn't the same phenomenon.
Well no your point was that he now doesn't like them, but that doesn't mean anything. He liked them back then. Who cares if he now agrees with you retroactively? That doesn't mean you were right to not like grinding or simplistic combat.
You missed the point entirely. This isn't about "your opinion vs. mine". It's about my opinion vs. what I am being told my opinion "really" is. I don't care if we call it a horse drawn carriage. Call it a steaming pile of shit for all I care, I still can't drive one whether I want to or not. Those were the games I'd prefer to play but they don't exist. You don't care much for old school MMOs, I do. You are in the majority, I'm not. You have many games to choose from, I have none. It's not "Rose colored glasses" to say I want to play one.
modern MMOs are much better, for me, of course (since "better" is always subjective). They try to be better games, not worlds with "community".
If people said "hey I would like to play a game like this or that again" very few would have much to say... The problem is it's rarely or maybe never presented in such a way here... Most of the time people can't say such without passive aggressively attacking current games, or those who play them. Hence the back and forth that almost always ensues with such statements.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I looked up the word "nostalgia" in the dictionary. It said, "A sentimental or wistful affection for shitty, outdated video games."
But the whole argument in this thread is coming from fans of newer games saying, "These new games simply ARE better than the old ones" as an implied fact. Therefore, anyone saying otherwise MUST be wrong. I am arguing, saying, I'm not wrong for wanting a game that plays like old school, and every time, the argument back is. "More people like the new games" As if that should be proof enough that I really don't want an old school MMO, I only think I do because of what the majority likes.
This statement is just pathetic. There is nothing wrong with liking games from 20 years ago. I can still play Mario 3 and have fun. You are either 12 or had a terrible childhood.
Are you familiar with the OP at all? HE was one of the key people I was thinking of in my post... I too am an old school player, I talk up SWG all the time, as it was the pinnacle of MMORPGs to me, I just don't down other games in the process. However, I perfectly understand why his threads get the heat they do.. As well as why he has to question his right to his nostalgia in the first place.. It's rarely about his nostalgia that people express the thoughts toward him they do. That could be said about many people here...
Arguing about which games are better is like politics to me, IE something that should be avoided. As there is no end to said debate.. That shouldn't be the point of such a thread anyway. The problem is you reap what you sow. Constantly bring up such points, it follows you in every thread you make..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The only game that I played from that generation of MMOs that is still technically running, is Anarchy Online.
There are 2 problems I have playing it.
1. It truly is no longer the game I liked. Not since Funcom went full on P2W cash shop a few years ago. I'd still pay it's $15.00 a month. But not with FC's cash shop to boot.
2. Even all that aside, I can't look at the game. It's unplayable. The game client has nbever been technically updated and still runs on DX7. (Yes, DX7) While my video card has legacy support for D7, it renders it so horribly that the game is full of distortion. Imagine every surface, every back ground, every mesh and texture were rendered as though you were looking at it through a desert mirage and on top of that, every line in the game that was not perfectly horizontal or vertical was rendered with visible saw teeth from any distance, and when I moved, the teeth did too. Every single angled line in the game became a running buzz saw.