I think it speaks volumes of the developer's stance towards the content they create that they offer players a choice to skip everything but the current content. As if the previous content would cease being fun or entertaining just because it's not the newest feature.
Much better in my opinion is to incentivize playing through all the contents the game has to offer. Have the previous expansions included when you buy the latest one or something. Unless your content sucks so much you don't think it's worth actually playing through.
This makes no sense. Say a game is 5 years old..no matter how good the content is people are gonna get bored after multiple alts. Every themepark MMO suffers from this problem.
To say that the same content that was good 5 years go now suddenly sucks and that is the reason that devs feel the need for players to skip it is just..well..silly.
Once your game is that old and become top heavy whther the game company want it or not..players themselves would want to skip the old content which they have already seen multiple times.
I disagree.. People want to skip content for 1 or 2 reasons, which are somewhat tied to each other.. I have played a variety of golf courses for over 30 years.. Almost a dozen of them I have played 100's of times, and I never get bored with them.. Why? Because each time I play that course I get different results and it's FUN.. "FUN" being the keyword..
Now I will agree with you about the themepark comment.. If I have to follow the same breadcrumb trail over and over, YES I will want to skip all that non-fun meaningless bull chit.. lol Given that problem, which leads to games being top heavy, yes people dislike playing in ghost towns..
The issue is that zones need to be stand alone FUN moments.. Are static mobs fun? Are static crafting nodes fun? If you make each zone a FUN zone that isn't designed as a breadcrumb, it will keep players interest.. In the past long ago, there were game zones that I was sadden to leave because I out leveled the content..
Give each zone a reason to stay and play, and design the game mechanic to allow long term play (flex level like GW2) and you end up with players NOT congregating in a few zones, making the rest of the world empty.. No need to skip zones them or feel rushed through it..
Once a level is created, it can be used for multiple difficulties, and bounties. Nothing is wasted. If you play another hero, you use the same levels. If you hack-n-slash for end-game drops, the same levels.
So at each stage, there are a good variety of places to play.
With the current market and economy, MMO titles have been slowing in their release frequency. The list of stable MMOs with a healthy population is fairly small. I don't understand why MMOs do so little to encourage players to return to their games.
There is nothing more discouraging when checking out a MMO you used to play than a large pay-wall put in front of you just to get back into the game. From expansions to other content and features, MMOs tend to forget the players who stopped playing and do little to encourage people to re-subscribe.
World of Warcraft is one of the few I know of that made a decent effort to get people into their latest expansion. Those who pre-ordered were given a level 90 level boost, from what I remember. That is great for players who may have missed the previous expansion for whatever reason. It doesn't change the amount to be paid to get back into the game, but it at least gives some incentive for those who haven't played in a while.
MMOs could do more than just give someone a boost to the current content's level. Patches change a game significantly over the life of a MMO and players may need a tutorial to re-acquaint themselves with the various systems of the game. A summary of the changes could also be made for those who prefer to read patch-note-style text. For the free-to-play market, discounts on item stores should be given to players who have been away a while.
Anything would be better than the current less-than-welcoming doors to MMOs I used to play.
It does, you must buy all previous xpaks.
They actually alienate existing players by doing nothing for them but giving afkers free weeks, mounts, etc.
I think this just encapsulates the fact that people and developers are not really entirely cognizant of what they are playing/making.
The OP prosposal makes some sense when it comes to a mostly linear theme park MMORPG. Why would I want to keep doing something I mastered 2 years ago?
On the other hand this idea makes very little sense in say EvE Online. Yes you will be difinition be behind on advancment (since its entirely time based in that game). But the content of EvE itself is entirely different than style of content in WoW.
So in the end you have to ask yourself what is the point of the game? Why are people doing various activities?
I have a suspicion in the case of WoW, you will never get a good answer from serious players that bears up under analysis because they purposely avoid think about it. Because deep down they understand there is little point at all. It is an illusion and it only holds up if you purposely avoid looking at it too closely. Just shut up and take the auto-90. Don't think about implications, killjoy. Get on your treadmill and SMILE, bitch.
Originally posted by Zarf42 This post signifies what is wrong with the gaming community today. Everybody wants something for nothing or some kind of free gift for playing a game. Play the game because you like it. Not because you get something extra for coming back. You are the one who stopped playing. What about all the people that didn't stop? You get what you pay for.
What? Selling games/subs is a business. It's not your sweet old nanna, sitting on a rocking chair, knitting you out a warm comfy MMO. Businesses make a product, in competition with other businesses, to sell to you, the paying customer. If you don't treat your paying customers right, or do enough to court new or returning customers, you will do poorly. It baffles me why many people see MMO companies differently than any other business. It's like they want to see the devs as their pals, who they owe loyalty to, rather than the commercial operation that it is.
In a galaxy far, far away: "Thanx for making this game guys, it's awesome!"
Here: "You should thank me for playing your game. Also, i want free stuff."
And this is exactly the thing I'm talking about. They're a commercial operation. You pay them for their product. They're not your buddies, you don't owe them thanks. You're paying for a product, paying their wages, making the company profitable. They should be thanking you. You're the customer. And if they want to be financially successful in a competitive environment - which is their goal as a commercial entity - they must provide what the customer wants. This is a fundamental corporate reality. All business work this way.
There is nothing MMOs can do to make players return. No games with good PvP without using $_$ to win. No games with good grinding system. Players easily tires to their game.
In a galaxy far, far away: "Thanx for making this game guys, it's awesome!"
Here: "You should thank me for playing your game. Also, i want free stuff."
And this is exactly the thing I'm talking about. They're a commercial operation. You pay them for their product. They're not your buddies, you don't owe them thanks. You're paying for a product, paying their wages, making the company profitable. They should be thanking you. You're the customer. And if they want to be financially successful in a competitive environment - which is their goal as a commercial entity - they must provide what the customer wants. This is a fundamental corporate reality. All business work this way.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
See, I actually thought BioWare handled their Revan "expansion" reasonably well in this respect. It wasn't geared specifically to returning players, but it did let returning players catch up to the current storyline and help get them back up to speed. There was a 12x XP phase leading up to release which allowed players to hit max level with just the class quests. Upon release they gave players who hadn't played the related storyline instances to that point the ability to play them in an evening with a powerful droid companion.
The environment is different now than it used to be. Contrary to the doom and gloom spouted around here, there are many quality gaming options, and I suspect more players, rather than playing 40+ hours a week, 52 weeks a year in the same game, are bouncing around between those options. So yeah, I think it makes sense for developers to at least be mindful of that part of their audience and consider ways they can accommodate those players if it fits in their broader plans for the game.
In a galaxy far, far away: "Thanx for making this game guys, it's awesome!"
Here: "You should thank me for playing your game. Also, i want free stuff."
And this is exactly the thing I'm talking about. They're a commercial operation. You pay them for their product. They're not your buddies, you don't owe them thanks. You're paying for a product, paying their wages, making the company profitable. They should be thanking you. You're the customer. And if they want to be financially successful in a competitive environment - which is their goal as a commercial entity - they must provide what the customer wants. This is a fundamental corporate reality. All business work this way.
All I am hearing is greedy sense of entitlement.
Pretty much this ^
It's commonly viewed that all developers are scrooge mcduck, rolling on a mountain of cash that they refuse to use to make their games better.
The reality is so far removed from this that it's not even close to funny. Most devs get into this industry out of a love for games, not out of a love for money. Indeed one of the riskiest things a person can do (if their goal is to get rich) is to get into the video game industry (or any part of the entertainment industry outside of porn, for that matter). For every success story there are 100s of failures. The average game dev is not operating at the top, and is not operating at an impressive salary. There are of course exceptions, but this is true of everything.
In a galaxy far, far away: "Thanx for making this game guys, it's awesome!"
Here: "You should thank me for playing your game. Also, i want free stuff."
And this is exactly the thing I'm talking about. They're a commercial operation. You pay them for their product. They're not your buddies, you don't owe them thanks. You're paying for a product, paying their wages, making the company profitable. They should be thanking you. You're the customer. And if they want to be financially successful in a competitive environment - which is their goal as a commercial entity - they must provide what the customer wants. This is a fundamental corporate reality. All business work this way.
All I am hearing is greedy sense of entitlement.
Pretty much this ^
It's commonly viewed that all developers are scrooge mcduck, rolling on a mountain of cash that they refuse to use to make their games better.
The reality is so far removed from this that it's not even close to funny. Most devs get into this industry out of a love for games, not out of a love for money. Indeed one of the riskiest things a person can do (if their goal is to get rich) is to get into the video game industry (or any part of the entertainment industry outside of porn, for that matter). For every success story there are 100s of failures. The average game dev is not operating at the top, and is not operating at an impressive salary. There are of course exceptions, but this is true of everything.
I'm not at all saying they're like Scrooge McDuck, nor is it greed or entitlement.
I'm simply stating what they are, not what some people imagine them to be. The companies selling these games to us are businesses. Commercial entities. Their goal, just like any other business, is to sell a product and be profitable. There is nothing wrong with that, I've never claimed they're bad, evil people for doing this. They are simply doing business.
It's bizarre how some people imagine them to be your friends, or comrades. That's the fantasy, the delusion. Some people seem to treat MMO companies like their favourite sporting team, or at worst, a religion. Again, they are a business, trying to make money. You are the paying customer. This does not make them greedy, it's how businesses work, ffs. And nor is it remotely entitled behaviour to expect a certain level of service as a paying customer. That's also how business fundamentally works (and I'm baffled that I even have to spell that out). If they don't provide a level of service that satisfies current customers or entices new ones, they will fail and the MMO you are so emotionally invested in will cease to exist, no matter how much you want to see the company as your personal pal. This. Is. The. Reality.
And I'd note you don't see people behaving so naively with other companies. If Comcast screw up your DSL you don't say "Oh, poor Comcast, it must be hard for them with all those wires and switches and whatnot" - but I've seen the equivalent with fans of an MMO. I think some people get so invested in their favourite MMO they lose all sense of perspective (lost in the fantasy world in more ways than one).
In a galaxy far, far away: "Thanx for making this game guys, it's awesome!"
Here: "You should thank me for playing your game. Also, i want free stuff."
And this is exactly the thing I'm talking about. They're a commercial operation. You pay them for their product. They're not your buddies, you don't owe them thanks. You're paying for a product, paying their wages, making the company profitable. They should be thanking you. You're the customer. And if they want to be financially successful in a competitive environment - which is their goal as a commercial entity - they must provide what the customer wants. This is a fundamental corporate reality. All business work this way.
All I am hearing is greedy sense of entitlement.
Pretty much this ^
It's commonly viewed that all developers are scrooge mcduck, rolling on a mountain of cash that they refuse to use to make their games better.
The reality is so far removed from this that it's not even close to funny. Most devs get into this industry out of a love for games, not out of a love for money. Indeed one of the riskiest things a person can do (if their goal is to get rich) is to get into the video game industry (or any part of the entertainment industry outside of porn, for that matter). For every success story there are 100s of failures. The average game dev is not operating at the top, and is not operating at an impressive salary. There are of course exceptions, but this is true of everything.
I'm not at all saying they're like Scrooge McDuck, nor is it greed or entitlement.
I'm simply stating what they are, not what some people imagine them to be. The companies selling these games to us are businesses. Commercial entities. Their goal, just like any other business, is to sell a product and be profitable. There is nothing wrong with that, I've never claimed they're bad, evil people for doing this. They are simply doing business.
It's bizarre how some people imagine them to be your friends, or comrades. That's the fantasy, the delusion. Some people seem to treat MMO companies like their favourite sporting team, or at worst, a religion. Again, they are a business, trying to make money. You are the paying customer. This does not make them greedy, it's how businesses work, ffs. And nor is it remotely entitled behaviour to expect a certain level of service as a paying customer. That's also how business fundamentally works (and I'm baffled that I even have to spell that out). If they don't provide a level of service that satisfies current customers or entices new ones, they will fail and the MMO you are so emotionally invested in will cease to exist, no matter how much you want to see the company as your personal pal. This. Is. The. Reality.
And I'd note you don't see people behaving so naively with other companies. If Comcast screw up your DSL you don't say "Oh, poor Comcast, it must be hard for them with all those wires and switches and whatnot" - but I've seen the equivalent with fans of an MMO. I think some people get so invested in their favourite MMO they lose all sense of perspective (lost in the fantasy world in more ways than one).
And if at the end of all of that you say you want them to give you something to get you back, that is a sense of entitlement no matter how you try to phrase it. Would you return to play a game you didn't like just because of some freebie? No. You want to play games you like and if that alone isn't good enough for you to return you have a ton of other games to choose from.
But then I would have to ask, if you are looking for a game to play doesn't that mean your current games aren't enough for you? And wouldn't that imply that you need the game more than they need you?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
In a galaxy far, far away: "Thanx for making this game guys, it's awesome!"
Here: "You should thank me for playing your game. Also, i want free stuff."
And this is exactly the thing I'm talking about. They're a commercial operation. You pay them for their product. They're not your buddies, you don't owe them thanks. You're paying for a product, paying their wages, making the company profitable. They should be thanking you. You're the customer. And if they want to be financially successful in a competitive environment - which is their goal as a commercial entity - they must provide what the customer wants. This is a fundamental corporate reality. All business work this way.
All I am hearing is greedy sense of entitlement.
Pretty much this ^
It's commonly viewed that all developers are scrooge mcduck, rolling on a mountain of cash that they refuse to use to make their games better.
The reality is so far removed from this that it's not even close to funny. Most devs get into this industry out of a love for games, not out of a love for money. Indeed one of the riskiest things a person can do (if their goal is to get rich) is to get into the video game industry (or any part of the entertainment industry outside of porn, for that matter). For every success story there are 100s of failures. The average game dev is not operating at the top, and is not operating at an impressive salary. There are of course exceptions, but this is true of everything.
I'm not at all saying they're like Scrooge McDuck, nor is it greed or entitlement.
I'm simply stating what they are, not what some people imagine them to be. The companies selling these games to us are businesses. Commercial entities. Their goal, just like any other business, is to sell a product and be profitable. There is nothing wrong with that, I've never claimed they're bad, evil people for doing this. They are simply doing business.
It's bizarre how some people imagine them to be your friends, or comrades. That's the fantasy, the delusion. Some people seem to treat MMO companies like their favourite sporting team, or at worst, a religion. Again, they are a business, trying to make money. You are the paying customer. This does not make them greedy, it's how businesses work, ffs. And nor is it remotely entitled behaviour to expect a certain level of service as a paying customer. That's also how business fundamentally works (and I'm baffled that I even have to spell that out). If they don't provide a level of service that satisfies current customers or entices new ones, they will fail and the MMO you are so emotionally invested in will cease to exist, no matter how much you want to see the company as your personal pal. This. Is. The. Reality.
And I'd note you don't see people behaving so naively with other companies. If Comcast screw up your DSL you don't say "Oh, poor Comcast, it must be hard for them with all those wires and switches and whatnot" - but I've seen the equivalent with fans of an MMO. I think some people get so invested in their favourite MMO they lose all sense of perspective (lost in the fantasy world in more ways than one).
And if at the end of all of that you say you want them to give you something to get you back, that is a sense of entitlement no matter how you try to phrase it. Would you return to play a game you didn't like just because of some freebie? No. You want to play games you like and if that alone isn't good enough for you to return you have a ton of other games to choose from.
But then I would have to ask, if you are looking for a game to play doesn't that mean your current games aren't enough for you? And wouldn't that imply that you need the game more than they need you?
No, in fact, it's quite a standard (and successful) business strategy. You really don't need an MBA to know this.
Note that the OP never said anything about returning to a game you dislike, just that there is a lack of incentive to return, or even actual barriers to returning. In this competitive market, games companies should heed this well (some do, and these are the most profitable). I may return to a game that I used to enjoy or am on the fence about if they incentivized it. This makes good business sense.
There are a lot of MMOs on the market, vying for attention and most importantly, the market share that comes with that. If they don't stand out, make an effort to bring customers back, they will likely fade and fail. I may consider a number of current MMOs to play. All have strengths and weaknesses. Few stand out as shining examples of 'the best MMO'. The developer who knows how to entice me to buy their product wins out in the current environment, where we have so many MMOs to choose from.
In a galaxy far, far away: "Thanx for making this game guys, it's awesome!"
Here: "You should thank me for playing your game. Also, i want free stuff."
And this is exactly the thing I'm talking about. They're a commercial operation. You pay them for their product. They're not your buddies, you don't owe them thanks. You're paying for a product, paying their wages, making the company profitable. They should be thanking you. You're the customer. And if they want to be financially successful in a competitive environment - which is their goal as a commercial entity - they must provide what the customer wants. This is a fundamental corporate reality. All business work this way.
All I am hearing is greedy sense of entitlement.
Pretty much this ^
It's commonly viewed that all developers are scrooge mcduck, rolling on a mountain of cash that they refuse to use to make their games better.
The reality is so far removed from this that it's not even close to funny. Most devs get into this industry out of a love for games, not out of a love for money. Indeed one of the riskiest things a person can do (if their goal is to get rich) is to get into the video game industry (or any part of the entertainment industry outside of porn, for that matter). For every success story there are 100s of failures. The average game dev is not operating at the top, and is not operating at an impressive salary. There are of course exceptions, but this is true of everything.
I'm not at all saying they're like Scrooge McDuck, nor is it greed or entitlement.
I'm simply stating what they are, not what some people imagine them to be. The companies selling these games to us are businesses. Commercial entities. Their goal, just like any other business, is to sell a product and be profitable. There is nothing wrong with that, I've never claimed they're bad, evil people for doing this. They are simply doing business.
It's bizarre how some people imagine them to be your friends, or comrades. That's the fantasy, the delusion. Some people seem to treat MMO companies like their favourite sporting team, or at worst, a religion. Again, they are a business, trying to make money. You are the paying customer. This does not make them greedy, it's how businesses work, ffs. And nor is it remotely entitled behaviour to expect a certain level of service as a paying customer. That's also how business fundamentally works (and I'm baffled that I even have to spell that out). If they don't provide a level of service that satisfies current customers or entices new ones, they will fail and the MMO you are so emotionally invested in will cease to exist, no matter how much you want to see the company as your personal pal. This. Is. The. Reality.
And I'd note you don't see people behaving so naively with other companies. If Comcast screw up your DSL you don't say "Oh, poor Comcast, it must be hard for them with all those wires and switches and whatnot" - but I've seen the equivalent with fans of an MMO. I think some people get so invested in their favourite MMO they lose all sense of perspective (lost in the fantasy world in more ways than one).
And if at the end of all of that you say you want them to give you something to get you back, that is a sense of entitlement no matter how you try to phrase it. Would you return to play a game you didn't like just because of some freebie? No. You want to play games you like and if that alone isn't good enough for you to return you have a ton of other games to choose from.
But then I would have to ask, if you are looking for a game to play doesn't that mean your current games aren't enough for you? And wouldn't that imply that you need the game more than they need you?
No, in fact, it's quite a standard (and successful) business strategy. You really don't need an MBA to know this.
Note that the OP never said anything about returning to a game you dislike, just that there is a lack of incentive to return, or even actual barriers to returning. In this competitive market, games companies should heed this well (some do, and these are the most profitable). I may return to a game that I used to enjoy or am on the fence about if they incentivized it. This makes good business sense.
There are a lot of MMOs on the market, vying for attention and most importantly, the market share that comes with that. If they don't stand out, make an effort to bring customers back, they will likely fade and fail. I may consider a number of current MMOs to play. All have strengths and weaknesses. Few stand out as shining examples of 'the best MMO'. The developer who knows how to entice me to buy their product wins out in the current environment, where we have so many MMOs to choose from.
Nice deflection using "standard business strategy" as it tells us nothing about your personal motivations in the matter. Why do you on a personal level need this? That is where your entitlement lies.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
In a galaxy far, far away: "Thanx for making this game guys, it's awesome!"
Here: "You should thank me for playing your game. Also, i want free stuff."
And this is exactly the thing I'm talking about. They're a commercial operation. You pay them for their product. They're not your buddies, you don't owe them thanks. You're paying for a product, paying their wages, making the company profitable. They should be thanking you. You're the customer. And if they want to be financially successful in a competitive environment - which is their goal as a commercial entity - they must provide what the customer wants. This is a fundamental corporate reality. All business work this way.
All I am hearing is greedy sense of entitlement.
Pretty much this ^
It's commonly viewed that all developers are scrooge mcduck, rolling on a mountain of cash that they refuse to use to make their games better.
The reality is so far removed from this that it's not even close to funny. Most devs get into this industry out of a love for games, not out of a love for money. Indeed one of the riskiest things a person can do (if their goal is to get rich) is to get into the video game industry (or any part of the entertainment industry outside of porn, for that matter). For every success story there are 100s of failures. The average game dev is not operating at the top, and is not operating at an impressive salary. There are of course exceptions, but this is true of everything.
I couldn't agree more to what you have said. Most people think that the gaming industry is trying to rip money from them. It's not that much like what these people think. Ofcourse you need money to make the game work. Ugh people just love to judge.
Originally posted by syntax42 Originally posted by GdemamiOriginally posted by syntax42MMO titles have been slowing in their release frequency. The list of stable MMOs with a healthy population is fairly small.
Erm...wut?There are more MMO titles to play than ever.I'm referring to quality MMOs, not garbage free-to-play clones being churned out of (mostly) Asia.
I feel like there were more quality MMOs to play in 2010 than there are today. Many MMOs have closed down in the past five years and there hasn't been enough good ones to replace them.
Garbage free to play clones mostly coming from Asia? 2009 called, they want their blanket rhetoric back. Seriously, get new material. That assumption hasn't been relevant in years.
I think this just encapsulates the fact that people and developers are not really entirely cognizant of what they are playing/making.
The OP prosposal makes some sense when it comes to a mostly linear theme park MMORPG. Why would I want to keep doing something I mastered 2 years ago?
Yes, I think it is a problem of poor design. A lot of themeparks do an A-Z zone and put the expansion on 'top'. A good MMO would weave the zones together to make a mesh but they fail to do this because of the level differences.
There are ways around it, just no one likes those methods so the status quo remains.
And, maybe, when we stop having greedy money-hungry suit people leading game developpement, we can get some good game made for fun ( and not made to exploit people , aka whales).
Where are the '' a company made by gamers, for gamers'' aka blizzard,
or the '' you are in our world now!'' aka Sony/Verant/Everquest...
instead we have beta, or even alpha, with cash shops, along with games who die within few months... because it is a business, it's is not for fun.
With the current market and economy, MMO titles have been slowing in their release frequency. The list of stable MMOs with a healthy population is fairly small. I don't understand why MMOs do so little to encourage players to return to their games.
From my experience, mmo's are constantly trying to wrangle in previous players. I am always getting emails from Funcom, Trion, SOE (before they got kicked out), Blizzard, etc.. In the emails they tell me to come back now for (insert name) expansion, or (recycled content) event! Now for a limited time you get 2305035% experience boost and 1 dollar towards the cash shop! ACT NOW!
There is nothing more discouraging when checking out a MMO you used to play than a large pay-wall put in front of you just to get back into the game. From expansions to other content and features, MMOs tend to forget the players who stopped playing and do little to encourage people to re-subscribe.
For me 15 dollars a month to play a game ain't no thang! And is actually cheaper depending on the game *cough* Archeage *cough*. And again in the emails I stated above it is usually geared towards getting people to resub, since f2p in the west actually is a system made to force free players into subscribing, and making them hate their lives otherwise *cough* SWTOR *cough*.
World of Warcraft is one of the few I know of that made a decent effort to get people into their latest expansion. Those who pre-ordered were given a level 90 level boost, from what I remember. That is great for players who may have missed the previous expansion for whatever reason. It doesn't change the amount to be paid to get back into the game, but it at least gives some incentive for those who haven't played in a while.
Everquest 2 had the same promotion 4 or 5 months ago, can't remember the exact date. Same with AoC a billion years ago. It sounds like a good idea to me, but when I do it I end up not staying very long. All the content I skipped makes me end up not really knowing my class, or what the hell I am supposed to do now. I guess I'm one of the few who enjoy the journey and not the destination.
MMOs could do more than just give someone a boost to the current content's level. Patches change a game significantly over the life of a MMO and players may need a tutorial to re-acquaint themselves with the various systems of the game. A summary of the changes could also be made for those who prefer to read patch-note-style text. For the free-to-play market, discounts on item stores should be given to players who have been away a while.
I agree with the patch note style info that can be given to returning or new players. Like I said above, returning to an mmo after a long break is really confusing and I usually end up leaving again because I don't know what is going on. Or I use google but then realize it is all end game raid content, which I'll never do, and the rest of the game is exactly the same as when I left. So I leave again.
It wouldn't be really fair to the faithful sub base of a game if they gave a discount on store items to players who've been away. They need to do a deal for both loyal fans and returnings nomads, and then probably to new blood who reach a certain milestone.
Anything would be better than the current less-than-welcoming doors to MMOs I used to play.
On the subject. I think mmo's should actively add new content to all level ranges, not just end game. That is one thing I do like about WoW is it adds new stuff to all levels. So when you level up a new character you get new choices and new experiences. So many mmo's just leave their leveling content to rot, LIKE SWTOR!! ADD NEW SHIT!! OMFG!
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
MMO titles have been slowing in their release frequency. The list of stable MMOs with a healthy population is fairly small.
Erm...wut?
There are more MMO titles to play than ever.
OK Subtract MOBAs, anything with 'action combat', compulsory PvP, oh and anything with a zombie or a SciFi theme. Then filter out the obvious trash, 2d isomorphic pay to win etc.
How many are left? and how many of those released in the last five years? How many are stable with a healthy population?
Originally posted by Zarf42 This post signifies what is wrong with the gaming community today. Everybody wants something for nothing or some kind of free gift for playing a game. Play the game because you like it. Not because you get something extra for coming back. You are the one who stopped playing. What about all the people that didn't stop? You get what you pay for.
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
From expansions to other content and features, MMOs tend to forget the players who stopped playing and do little to encourage people to re-subscribe.
Actually, developers are constantly trying to bring lapsed players back to their game. It's an ongoing and evolving process that often has multiple people, if not an entire team, dedicated to it.
Players leave for many reasons. They also have many different playstyles. It may be possible to identify to a decent degree why some may have left, and it may be possible to create a broad range of promotions targeting each type of player, but that can get rather unwieldy rather quickly. For example, a free hat might entice some players back whereas a decent level-appropriate weapon may entice others back. Others, it's some form of progression advancement. For some, discounts and reduced rates are more appealing.
So, you're probably wondering at this point, and quite reasonably so "Why not bring them back based on the features instead of some gimmick?" That's a good point, and developers do that, too. Keep in mind, though, that you reach the same hurdle of the unwieldy mess of multiple variations as you email the people that last played years ago separately from the people that last played last expansion, and divide each of those by PVP, crafting, casual, hardcore, roleplay, or whatever other divisions you've discovered in your playerbase. More often than not, there's only one or two different emails that will go out, so the devs have to make the best of what cool features get pitched in the limited space given. The features or promo of a given email might not appeal to you, but they probably appealed to many others. LIkewise, you may receive what you find to be a great deal or news of a great feature, while others may be saying "This crap is why I left!"
That said, what do you like best as incentives to return to a game? What offers, deal or gifts make you hit that re-activate button?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Just because you believe that the emotional commitment you put into being a fan of the game once upon a time was reciprocated, doesn't make it so.
it's just something you bought and used and presumably got you money's worth out of. You have to get past the sales pitch that would have you believe that you're special and that they really care about you - that's just PR to help their sales pitch.
Whatever they do to entice returning players is just a cold and calculated marketing decision to make a profit. Some do a better job of enticing you than others... That's all there is to it.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
That said, what do you like best as incentives to return to a game? What offers, deal or gifts make you hit that re-activate button?
I kinda though that was self-explanatory. Fix game-related reasons why I left it in first place. That never happened with any MMORPG I've played though.
Comments
I disagree.. People want to skip content for 1 or 2 reasons, which are somewhat tied to each other.. I have played a variety of golf courses for over 30 years.. Almost a dozen of them I have played 100's of times, and I never get bored with them.. Why? Because each time I play that course I get different results and it's FUN.. "FUN" being the keyword..
Now I will agree with you about the themepark comment.. If I have to follow the same breadcrumb trail over and over, YES I will want to skip all that non-fun meaningless bull chit.. lol Given that problem, which leads to games being top heavy, yes people dislike playing in ghost towns..
The issue is that zones need to be stand alone FUN moments.. Are static mobs fun? Are static crafting nodes fun? If you make each zone a FUN zone that isn't designed as a breadcrumb, it will keep players interest.. In the past long ago, there were game zones that I was sadden to leave because I out leveled the content..
Give each zone a reason to stay and play, and design the game mechanic to allow long term play (flex level like GW2) and you end up with players NOT congregating in a few zones, making the rest of the world empty.. No need to skip zones them or feel rushed through it..
Best use of content ... games like marvel heroes.
Once a level is created, it can be used for multiple difficulties, and bounties. Nothing is wasted. If you play another hero, you use the same levels. If you hack-n-slash for end-game drops, the same levels.
So at each stage, there are a good variety of places to play.
It does, you must buy all previous xpaks.
They actually alienate existing players by doing nothing for them but giving afkers free weeks, mounts, etc.
I think this just encapsulates the fact that people and developers are not really entirely cognizant of what they are playing/making.
The OP prosposal makes some sense when it comes to a mostly linear theme park MMORPG. Why would I want to keep doing something I mastered 2 years ago?
On the other hand this idea makes very little sense in say EvE Online. Yes you will be difinition be behind on advancment (since its entirely time based in that game). But the content of EvE itself is entirely different than style of content in WoW.
So in the end you have to ask yourself what is the point of the game? Why are people doing various activities?
I have a suspicion in the case of WoW, you will never get a good answer from serious players that bears up under analysis because they purposely avoid think about it. Because deep down they understand there is little point at all. It is an illusion and it only holds up if you purposely avoid looking at it too closely. Just shut up and take the auto-90. Don't think about implications, killjoy. Get on your treadmill and SMILE, bitch.
What? Selling games/subs is a business. It's not your sweet old nanna, sitting on a rocking chair, knitting you out a warm comfy MMO. Businesses make a product, in competition with other businesses, to sell to you, the paying customer. If you don't treat your paying customers right, or do enough to court new or returning customers, you will do poorly. It baffles me why many people see MMO companies differently than any other business. It's like they want to see the devs as their pals, who they owe loyalty to, rather than the commercial operation that it is.
And this is exactly the thing I'm talking about. They're a commercial operation. You pay them for their product. They're not your buddies, you don't owe them thanks. You're paying for a product, paying their wages, making the company profitable. They should be thanking you. You're the customer. And if they want to be financially successful in a competitive environment - which is their goal as a commercial entity - they must provide what the customer wants. This is a fundamental corporate reality. All business work this way.
All I am hearing is greedy sense of entitlement.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
See, I actually thought BioWare handled their Revan "expansion" reasonably well in this respect. It wasn't geared specifically to returning players, but it did let returning players catch up to the current storyline and help get them back up to speed. There was a 12x XP phase leading up to release which allowed players to hit max level with just the class quests. Upon release they gave players who hadn't played the related storyline instances to that point the ability to play them in an evening with a powerful droid companion.
The environment is different now than it used to be. Contrary to the doom and gloom spouted around here, there are many quality gaming options, and I suspect more players, rather than playing 40+ hours a week, 52 weeks a year in the same game, are bouncing around between those options. So yeah, I think it makes sense for developers to at least be mindful of that part of their audience and consider ways they can accommodate those players if it fits in their broader plans for the game.
Pretty much this ^
It's commonly viewed that all developers are scrooge mcduck, rolling on a mountain of cash that they refuse to use to make their games better.
The reality is so far removed from this that it's not even close to funny. Most devs get into this industry out of a love for games, not out of a love for money. Indeed one of the riskiest things a person can do (if their goal is to get rich) is to get into the video game industry (or any part of the entertainment industry outside of porn, for that matter). For every success story there are 100s of failures. The average game dev is not operating at the top, and is not operating at an impressive salary. There are of course exceptions, but this is true of everything.
I'm not at all saying they're like Scrooge McDuck, nor is it greed or entitlement.
I'm simply stating what they are, not what some people imagine them to be. The companies selling these games to us are businesses. Commercial entities. Their goal, just like any other business, is to sell a product and be profitable. There is nothing wrong with that, I've never claimed they're bad, evil people for doing this. They are simply doing business.
It's bizarre how some people imagine them to be your friends, or comrades. That's the fantasy, the delusion. Some people seem to treat MMO companies like their favourite sporting team, or at worst, a religion. Again, they are a business, trying to make money. You are the paying customer. This does not make them greedy, it's how businesses work, ffs. And nor is it remotely entitled behaviour to expect a certain level of service as a paying customer. That's also how business fundamentally works (and I'm baffled that I even have to spell that out). If they don't provide a level of service that satisfies current customers or entices new ones, they will fail and the MMO you are so emotionally invested in will cease to exist, no matter how much you want to see the company as your personal pal. This. Is. The. Reality.
And I'd note you don't see people behaving so naively with other companies. If Comcast screw up your DSL you don't say "Oh, poor Comcast, it must be hard for them with all those wires and switches and whatnot" - but I've seen the equivalent with fans of an MMO. I think some people get so invested in their favourite MMO they lose all sense of perspective (lost in the fantasy world in more ways than one).
And if at the end of all of that you say you want them to give you something to get you back, that is a sense of entitlement no matter how you try to phrase it. Would you return to play a game you didn't like just because of some freebie? No. You want to play games you like and if that alone isn't good enough for you to return you have a ton of other games to choose from.
But then I would have to ask, if you are looking for a game to play doesn't that mean your current games aren't enough for you? And wouldn't that imply that you need the game more than they need you?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
No, in fact, it's quite a standard (and successful) business strategy. You really don't need an MBA to know this.
Note that the OP never said anything about returning to a game you dislike, just that there is a lack of incentive to return, or even actual barriers to returning. In this competitive market, games companies should heed this well (some do, and these are the most profitable). I may return to a game that I used to enjoy or am on the fence about if they incentivized it. This makes good business sense.
There are a lot of MMOs on the market, vying for attention and most importantly, the market share that comes with that. If they don't stand out, make an effort to bring customers back, they will likely fade and fail. I may consider a number of current MMOs to play. All have strengths and weaknesses. Few stand out as shining examples of 'the best MMO'. The developer who knows how to entice me to buy their product wins out in the current environment, where we have so many MMOs to choose from.
Nice deflection using "standard business strategy" as it tells us nothing about your personal motivations in the matter. Why do you on a personal level need this? That is where your entitlement lies.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I couldn't agree more to what you have said. Most people think that the gaming industry is trying to rip money from them. It's not that much like what these people think. Ofcourse you need money to make the game work. Ugh people just love to judge.
I'm referring to quality MMOs, not garbage free-to-play clones being churned out of (mostly) Asia.
I feel like there were more quality MMOs to play in 2010 than there are today. Many MMOs have closed down in the past five years and there hasn't been enough good ones to replace them.
Garbage free to play clones mostly coming from Asia? 2009 called, they want their blanket rhetoric back. Seriously, get new material. That assumption hasn't been relevant in years.
Yes, I think it is a problem of poor design. A lot of themeparks do an A-Z zone and put the expansion on 'top'. A good MMO would weave the zones together to make a mesh but they fail to do this because of the level differences.
There are ways around it, just no one likes those methods so the status quo remains.
And, maybe, when we stop having greedy money-hungry suit people leading game developpement, we can get some good game made for fun ( and not made to exploit people , aka whales).
Where are the '' a company made by gamers, for gamers'' aka blizzard,
or the '' you are in our world now!'' aka Sony/Verant/Everquest...
instead we have beta, or even alpha, with cash shops, along with games who die within few months... because it is a business, it's is not for fun.
"MMOs need to do more for returning players."
Like what? Thank them for leaving the game in the first place?
You left. You returned. You will leave again. Why should they do anything for you at all?
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
OK Subtract MOBAs, anything with 'action combat', compulsory PvP, oh and anything with a zombie or a SciFi theme. Then filter out the obvious trash, 2d isomorphic pay to win etc.
How many are left? and how many of those released in the last five years? How many are stable with a healthy population?
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
Actually, developers are constantly trying to bring lapsed players back to their game. It's an ongoing and evolving process that often has multiple people, if not an entire team, dedicated to it.
Players leave for many reasons. They also have many different playstyles. It may be possible to identify to a decent degree why some may have left, and it may be possible to create a broad range of promotions targeting each type of player, but that can get rather unwieldy rather quickly. For example, a free hat might entice some players back whereas a decent level-appropriate weapon may entice others back. Others, it's some form of progression advancement. For some, discounts and reduced rates are more appealing.
So, you're probably wondering at this point, and quite reasonably so "Why not bring them back based on the features instead of some gimmick?" That's a good point, and developers do that, too. Keep in mind, though, that you reach the same hurdle of the unwieldy mess of multiple variations as you email the people that last played years ago separately from the people that last played last expansion, and divide each of those by PVP, crafting, casual, hardcore, roleplay, or whatever other divisions you've discovered in your playerbase. More often than not, there's only one or two different emails that will go out, so the devs have to make the best of what cool features get pitched in the limited space given. The features or promo of a given email might not appeal to you, but they probably appealed to many others. LIkewise, you may receive what you find to be a great deal or news of a great feature, while others may be saying "This crap is why I left!"
That said, what do you like best as incentives to return to a game? What offers, deal or gifts make you hit that re-activate button?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Just because you believe that the emotional commitment you put into being a fan of the game once upon a time was reciprocated, doesn't make it so.
it's just something you bought and used and presumably got you money's worth out of. You have to get past the sales pitch that would have you believe that you're special and that they really care about you - that's just PR to help their sales pitch.
Whatever they do to entice returning players is just a cold and calculated marketing decision to make a profit. Some do a better job of enticing you than others... That's all there is to it.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I kinda though that was self-explanatory. Fix game-related reasons why I left it in first place. That never happened with any MMORPG I've played though.