Originally posted by nariusseldonquote .."Lately, gaming companies seem to be very cautious about shelling out the millions it costs to develop a AAA MMO and risk losing it all. They all seem to be going a more conservative route. Even Blizzard themselves dumped the MMO 'Titan' and are now creating a FPS team based multiplayer game, Overwatch."Pretty much this. Traditional MMOs are no longer in fashion. Devs have innovated and turning to other online game types.
The article doesn't say "Innovated".It says -cautious about investing-more conservative routeWhich aprt of that did you read as "Innovation" ?
The part about MOBA, card games, shared world shooters .... and other types of online games that the article did not mention.Don't tell me devs are no longer making games ... it is just that they are turning their attention to something else, like Blizz.
We have had all this before, the market has becoming dominated by cheaper MMOs and MMO like games, but if you suggest that we need a AAA, some actual quality, they go on about you only wanting people to play games you like. We are talking about the amount of money publishers are prepared to put into a MMO, or for that matter a MMO like game. A bigger budget does not equal a great game but it sure helps.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Orious
It's fine to have other MMOs, but he's talking about MMORPGS I think and lumping that single category with "MMO". MMORPGS need to come back to the virtual world type of gameplay and development. The "raid style" MMOs like Vindictus and pretend like you made a WoW that only had dungeon fighter in a lobby are fine MMOGs for the MMO genre as well. It's the MMORPGs that need to diversifiy themselves instead of becoming just another game in the store. There's so much potential for a virtual world nowadays that has not even been attempted properly. Once it does get a proper attempt, things will be different. There are some decent contenders at the moment, but unless your game is bug-free at launch and looks as gorgeous as a next gen console game you won't be getting an 80 on metacritic.Why do MMORPGs need to do anything if the audience is not there? May be devs should just make other types of MMOs and not MMORPGs.
In fact, didn't Blizz just cancelled their new MMORPG and decided to make other types of online games?
Yes, Blizzard cancelled Project Titan the MMORPG to turn it into Overwatch the competitive arena shooter.
In fact Blizzard is no longer interested in making any other MMORPGs.
"I wouldn't say no to ever doing an MMO again," Morhaime said. "But I can say that right now, that's not where we want to be spending our time."
"All MMos since EQ left the path of creating a virtuall world experience, and trying to create a game again.... I think the first game leaning more to a virtuall world experience again is ESO, but not half as much as required to give the whole genre new breath..
i think if you want to revolutionise the genre again, you need to do the same as BLizzard and look back at the mother of all MMOs, and not try to make the next EQ a better game, but try to make it a better virtuall world... No this does not mean moving in the opposite direction of what WoW did, but moving i. A different direction...
just ask yourself, what did you like in EQ ( pretty much the article hit the nail on the head) and how could you improve on that feeling?"
Lord.Bachus is on to something here. When the author of the said article talks about the missing " 'it' factor" which was not passed down to the younger MMORPGs, I think that, despite disclaiming that he doesn't know what it is, he does name it. Vxed says about his time in Everquest:
"From my early noob days training half of Crushbone to the zone line to battling all the major gods in Planes of Power years later, Everquest held you on for the ride of a life time. The thing about EQ is the zones were so massive you truly felt part of this massive world that felt so real and so alive. Whether it was travelling across half of Norrath just to meet up with someone to trade for a Blackened Alloy Bastard Sword or simply meeting up with some buddies for a small raid. Everything in EQ took time and effort. And during those days, it was half of the fun.
It wasn't about world firsts or being elite. It wasn't about the gear or being rewarded instantly for your time. It was about how you spent your time, the journey itself. Travelling across the oasis to reach a friend to kill some snakes felt rewarding in it self. And it was down right fun! Ask any EQ vet out there what some of their most memorable moments in Everquest are and while some might tell you a story of how their guild took down a raid boss in epic fashion or how they dumped in years of game time to max their AA's. (Alternate Advancements) Most will probably tell you stories of travelling through hell and high water with nothing more than a rusty longsword and a Shiny Brass Shield to reach other friends or just out adventuring on their own, seeing the different zones, not knowing whats around the next corner like the Hill Giant about to stomp you down sending you back to your bind point 4 zones ago. It was never about not enough content or what is there to do? It was always about how am I going to see all of this? How will I get there? And how am I going to possibly find enough time to do it?"
Clearly, he highlights the fact that, for him, the in-game world of Everquest was "bigger than him" in the right ways. For him, it used the unknown--with respect to size, unpredictability, challenging content (including survivability), and so on--to make itself feel immersive, attention grabbing, and rewarding for him. Hence, he highlights his journey through this game as one of its strengths for him.
And, clearly, this contrasts greatly with the in-game worlds of today's younger MMORPGs in a general sense. That is, in today's younger MMORPGs in general, everything has a specific, to-the-point purpose and nothing more. For example, in WoW-like games, if there's an open area somewhere, then it's probably a neatly defined, easily navigated area which is meant for a quest from a quest hub. If there's an NPC standing around, then he's probably an obvious kill which is meant for a quest from a quest hub. And so on. That's it. Plus, guides and info on everything--where it is, what it is for, etc.--are freely available to all.
Now, how can we restore what this article's author misses? By adding the said unknowns back into MMORPGs. Only this time, it has to be done with more dynamic content which defies predictability and a formulaic approach (i.e. adding more dynamic landscapes, more dynamic AIs, etc.).
For these people EQ was their first MMO. This is why they feel this way.
There is nothing more annoying than nostalgic EQ fans who when pressed to say why their game was better will give you random vague statements about how it was magical and it was a virtual world where in fact it was an Asian style grinder but because it was their first MMO it felt fresh.
You know what the purpose for a lot of things in EQ was? There was no purpose. It was a lot of generic crap pasted all across. SWG was quite similar in that there was a lot of dead space.
Camping mobs in a group is just lolz. Cause that's ultimately what people in EQ did. Games nowadays get thrashed if they don't have seamless zones but EQ was not seamless too. You know what was seamless? WoW!
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
You know what the purpose for a lot of things in EQ was? There was no purpose. It was a lot of generic crap pasted all across. SWG was quite similar in that there was a lot of dead space.
Camping mobs in a group is just lolz. Cause that's ultimately what people in EQ did. Games nowadays get thrashed if they don't have seamless zones but EQ was not seamless too. You know what was seamless? WoW!
Absolutely. Staring at the spellbook is just the pinnacle of dead space (though they fixed it at some point).
And the combat is pitiful compared to modern day gameplay mechanics. There is a reason of why no modern game will ask players to take a number and camp static spawn with 50 other groups in line.
"Lately, gaming companies seem to be very cautious about shelling out the millions it costs to develop a AAA MMO and risk losing it all. They all seem to be going a more conservative route. Even Blizzard themselves dumped the MMO 'Titan' and are now creating a FPS team based multiplayer game, Overwatch."
Pretty much this. Traditional MMOs are no longer in fashion. Devs have innovated and turning to other online game types.
The article doesn't say "Innovated".
It says
-cautious about investing
-more conservative route
Which aprt of that did you read as "Innovation" ?
The part about MOBA, card games, shared world shooters .... and other types of online games that the article did not mention.
Don't tell me devs are no longer making games ... it is just that they are turning their attention to something else, like Blizz.
You're only proving his point. That is not innovation. It's all been before many times hence the "conservative route".
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
"Lately, gaming companies seem to be very cautious about shelling out the millions it costs to develop a AAA MMO and risk losing it all. They all seem to be going a more conservative route. Even Blizzard themselves dumped the MMO 'Titan' and are now creating a FPS team based multiplayer game, Overwatch."
Pretty much this. Traditional MMOs are no longer in fashion. Devs have innovated and turning to other online game types.
The article doesn't say "Innovated".
It says
-cautious about investing
-more conservative route
Which aprt of that did you read as "Innovation" ?
The part about MOBA, card games, shared world shooters .... and other types of online games that the article did not mention.
Don't tell me devs are no longer making games ... it is just that they are turning their attention to something else, like Blizz.
You're only proving his point. That is not innovation. It's all been before many times hence the "conservative route".
How is investing in new types of games the "conservative route"? Take Blizz as an example ... they ditches their new MMORPG (which they have done before), and created a card game, and doing an online shooter which they have not.
That is the definition of doing something new, and less "conservative".
"Lately, gaming companies seem to be very cautious about shelling out the millions it costs to develop a AAA MMO and risk losing it all. They all seem to be going a more conservative route. Even Blizzard themselves dumped the MMO 'Titan' and are now creating a FPS team based multiplayer game, Overwatch."
Pretty much this. Traditional MMOs are no longer in fashion. Devs have innovated and turning to other online game types.
The article doesn't say "Innovated".
It says
-cautious about investing
-more conservative route
Which aprt of that did you read as "Innovation" ?
The part about MOBA, card games, shared world shooters .... and other types of online games that the article did not mention.
Don't tell me devs are no longer making games ... it is just that they are turning their attention to something else, like Blizz.
You're only proving his point. That is not innovation. It's all been before many times hence the "conservative route".
How is investing in new types of games the "conservative route"? Take Blizz as an example ... they ditches their new MMORPG (which they have done before), and created a card game, and doing an online shooter which they have not.
That is the definition of doing something new, and less "conservative".
You might also call it dumbing down and going for the low hanging fruit. Not sure card games are exactly new, maybe there is something innovative about the card game that someone could tell us? If not then it is hardly the banner bearer that WoW was!
You might also call it dumbing down and going for the low hanging fruit. Not sure card games are exactly new, maybe there is something innovative about the card game that someone could tell us? If not then it is hardly the banner bearer that WoW was!
How is a strategic game with many builds, dumbing down compared to classical MMORPGs?
It is new for Blizz, and it is very successful. Sooner or later WOW is going to decline (it already happened once), and blizz clearly don't want another classical MMORPG to be the "banner bearer".
You might also call it dumbing down and going for the low hanging fruit. Not sure card games are exactly new, maybe there is something innovative about the card game that someone could tell us? If not then it is hardly the banner bearer that WoW was!
How is a strategic game with many builds, dumbing down compared to classical MMORPGs?
It is new for Blizz, and it is very successful. Sooner or later WOW is going to decline (it already happened once), and blizz clearly don't want another classical MMORPG to be the "banner bearer".
What's easier to make a card game or a MMO? if that's not dumbing down I don't know what is. My second point is not that they need a MMO to be a banner bearer, it is that they are not producing a banner bearer of any kind. Hence the 'low hanging fruit', a card game for heavens sake, what next will they reinvent Pong?
What's easier to make a card game or a MMO? if that's not dumbing down I don't know what is. My second point is not that they need a MMO to be a banner bearer, it is that they are not producing a banner bearer of any kind. Hence the 'low hanging fruit', a card game for heavens sake, what next will they reinvent Pong?
Lol ... have you actually play Hearthstone or other combat card games? The gameplay is much deeper than 1-2-3-4-5 rotation dps in a MMO. Sure it has less graphics, but that does not make a game deep. The design of the cards is everything.
Not pong, but an online shooter that looks fun. Blizz knows how to do things differently, and don't need to cater to just one type of genre, and I am all for it.
Comments
We have had all this before, the market has becoming dominated by cheaper MMOs and MMO like games, but if you suggest that we need a AAA, some actual quality, they go on about you only wanting people to play games you like.
We are talking about the amount of money publishers are prepared to put into a MMO, or for that matter a MMO like game. A bigger budget does not equal a great game but it sure helps.
Why do MMORPGs need to do anything if the audience is not there? May be devs should just make other types of MMOs and not MMORPGs.
In fact, didn't Blizz just cancelled their new MMORPG and decided to make other types of online games?
Yes, Blizzard cancelled Project Titan the MMORPG to turn it into Overwatch the competitive arena shooter.
In fact Blizzard is no longer interested in making any other MMORPGs.
"I wouldn't say no to ever doing an MMO again," Morhaime said. "But I can say that right now, that's not where we want to be spending our time."
http://www.polygon.com/2014/9/23/6833953/blizzard-cancels-titan-next-gen-mmo-pc
...and that is all fine since there is more than enough people who apreciate new generation of MMOs.
For these people EQ was their first MMO. This is why they feel this way.
There is nothing more annoying than nostalgic EQ fans who when pressed to say why their game was better will give you random vague statements about how it was magical and it was a virtual world where in fact it was an Asian style grinder but because it was their first MMO it felt fresh.
You know what the purpose for a lot of things in EQ was? There was no purpose. It was a lot of generic crap pasted all across. SWG was quite similar in that there was a lot of dead space.
Camping mobs in a group is just lolz. Cause that's ultimately what people in EQ did. Games nowadays get thrashed if they don't have seamless zones but EQ was not seamless too. You know what was seamless? WoW!
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Absolutely. Staring at the spellbook is just the pinnacle of dead space (though they fixed it at some point).
And the combat is pitiful compared to modern day gameplay mechanics. There is a reason of why no modern game will ask players to take a number and camp static spawn with 50 other groups in line.
You're only proving his point. That is not innovation. It's all been before many times hence the "conservative route".
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
How is investing in new types of games the "conservative route"? Take Blizz as an example ... they ditches their new MMORPG (which they have done before), and created a card game, and doing an online shooter which they have not.
That is the definition of doing something new, and less "conservative".
You might also call it dumbing down and going for the low hanging fruit. Not sure card games are exactly new, maybe there is something innovative about the card game that someone could tell us? If not then it is hardly the banner bearer that WoW was!
How is a strategic game with many builds, dumbing down compared to classical MMORPGs?
It is new for Blizz, and it is very successful. Sooner or later WOW is going to decline (it already happened once), and blizz clearly don't want another classical MMORPG to be the "banner bearer".
What's easier to make a card game or a MMO? if that's not dumbing down I don't know what is. My second point is not that they need a MMO to be a banner bearer, it is that they are not producing a banner bearer of any kind. Hence the 'low hanging fruit', a card game for heavens sake, what next will they reinvent Pong?
Lol ... have you actually play Hearthstone or other combat card games? The gameplay is much deeper than 1-2-3-4-5 rotation dps in a MMO. Sure it has less graphics, but that does not make a game deep. The design of the cards is everything.
Not pong, but an online shooter that looks fun. Blizz knows how to do things differently, and don't need to cater to just one type of genre, and I am all for it.