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Synergy
Ratagain
Member Posts: 19
In the past synergy was a big part of mmos.You couldn't level two times before you tripped over one or five skills with a description like :
Heals for 40...88...100. You gain 1...3...3 Energy if target ally is enchanted.
or
Inflicts Disease, Poison, and Weakness conditions (3...13...15 seconds). No effect unless this foe already had a condition.
But this days is if passives and skills like that are extinct.I am saying there aren't any,but or its just an afterthought,really basic,meaningless flash or more of a utility.
And i can already see the responses.
Action combat doesn't allow tactical or strategic skill because of its animations and the fast way in which it moves.
Firstly animation don't get effected or effect some more text that allow a skill to do more just damage.Even if it moves at the speed of light,you can still something more then just damage. Being that all animation in games is just images that play in an order and doesn't effect in anyway what the skill does.On the other side the animation's speed mostly doesn't effect most of time,because its the speed in which the animation gets from the first to last image.
Its more of an undertone so that newer players can jump in without any worries while veterans can show off their skill.
Firstly you don't need to start new players with 50 skills like that from level 1,you can gradually introduce them to the system. Also if you give them some guidance in the form of a tutorial,basically if they know what their looking for they will find it without any difficulty.
I find it easily,even in mmos which had any to speak of,but +10% damage is more utility then anything.Most of the time or its useless or its inefficient,basically or your better off using your standard or the cost doesn't meet the reward.
Its two expensive to make skills of this type.
Actually you will be surprised how cheap it is to make a skill of that type.You just need to change a few lines of text of an existing skill,add some more script,an image and a description and voila you have a new skill.That's why it was such a big thing in the early days of mmos.Its much more expensive to make new assets and animations.
It will be hard to balance.
If you don't give every class the ability to do and be every thing in the game it won't.
I will use the mmo that did it the best Guild Wars 1 for an example.
Guild Wars 1 is produced and owned by NCsoft and developed by Arenanet's A team that left in 2008 to form Undeadlabs.
(Guild Wars 1 allow you to have a second class that you can change with ease)
To make it more clear i will use one of SabreWolf18 videos on synergy.
http://youtu.be/H3Y2H8oZrQY?list=UUH-j_cLxWSFJAvZoq0DOjmQ
Now The Build I Am Showing:
The Main Will Be Ranger
Rangers are an extremely versatile profession, able to support combat operations by delivering precise long-range fire on selected targets, while denying the enemy freedom of movement. Their roles vary as they can set traps to ambush unsuspecting foes, spam a variety of interrupts to neutralize casters, bring in a pet to add additional melee damage, spread conditions with numerous bow attacks and preparations, or simply focus on ranged damage per second with either their bow or reduced cost attack and touch-based skills.
First skill Incendiary Arrows
Elite Bow Attack. Shoot arrows at target foe and up to 2 foes near your target. Those foes are set on fire for 1...3...3 second[s].
Second skill Apply Poison
Preparation. For 24 seconds, foes struck by your physical attacks become Poisoned for 3...13...15 seconds.
The Second Will Be Ritualists
Ritualists are masters of spirits, able to call upon them in battle for aid. They are the only profession capable of summoning allies that will both aid your team and hinder your enemies, unlike the Ranger's nature rituals or Necromancer's minions. They are also capable of using unique weapon spells and summoning ashes to aid in battle, and can directly attack foes or aid allies. As such, they are one of the most diverse professions.
First skill Splinter Weapon(only one weapon spell can be active on a ally target)
Weapon Spell. For 20 seconds, target ally has a Splinter Weapon. Target ally's next 1...4...5 attack[s] deal 5...41...50 damage to up to 4 adjacent foes.
Second skill Nightmare Weapon
Weapon Spell. For 12 seconds, target ally has a Nightmare Weapon. Target ally's next 3 attacks are reduced by 10...42...50 damage and steal up to 10...42...50 Health.
For veterans of the mmo space this build may look really basic and for guild wars 1 players it look like 50% of a build,and it is that,but you can see who much you can do in just this 4 skills.
Explanation of the build : When the ranger uses Incendiary Arrows he will hit 2 enemies and set the on fire,while under the effect of Apply Poison this attack will now add poison to the enemy target two,if the ranger uses Splinter Weapon he hit adjacent enemies or if he uses Nightmare Weapon he heal himself,you don't have Archers like that this days.
<span id="eow-title" "="" dir="ltr" title="Guild Wars: Splinter Barrage">
http://youtu.be/Trh-y85a5n4?list=UUH-j_cLxWSFJAvZoq0DOjmQ
Comments
You are kidding me.
This kind of debuff is used in many games, including those with action combat.
Diablo 3 and Marvel Heroes are good examples. Very actiony combat, but lots of things like this.
a wiz passive skill add elemental damage % to mobs depending on the damage you do.
an item proc different elemental meteors depending on damage you do on the mob.
there is a gem that will poison and debuff enemies
... there are tons of examples.
I seen the skills of this games.Its utility,because +10% damage on a single skill is called utility.And more read then just the red text.Also watch the videos first.if they ever work mmorpg.Also show me some skills before you write.
Do you actually read the actual skills?
It is not a flat 10% increase. It only add to certain elements ... and so people will stack elemental damage in their gear differently depending on the skill. That is the definition of synery.
Not to mention there is synery to what dps skill one will use.
Example:
Tal Rasha set in D3
Elemental Exposure passive skill
.. and there are a ton more.
The problem with going too far on synergy is that it can easily lead to a case where you have 30 skills and you have to pick eight to be on your toolbar, but there are only about 4 combinations of skills that are viable because everything else is giving up on essential synergies. That offers you vastly less build diversity than being able to pick skills that you like just because you like them without having to worry that they don't offer enough synergy with the rest of the skills on the bar.
I'm not saying that synergy is a bad thing. But I am saying that you missed the obvious objection while focusing on some random arguments that no one is making. The hard part of designing synergy between skills is writing and debugging the code, not writing tooltips. I'm not saying that writing several lines of code is hard (though in the case of Guild Wars 1, precedence between skill effects surely got very complicated), but only that your argument of it only taking a few lines of text is completely wrong.
build diversity is always a problem whether you have synergy or not. If one wants to optimize builds for a certain gameplay (like a particularly type of dungeons), there is usually only one solution.
I am yet to see a combo between skills or passives,and not just a build calculator.Which show that you don't know a lot about your game.
First I never said that there is not Synergy,but i did say it is an undertone this days.But seeing how you did read my post again.You do realize that your showing the same skill with upgrades.Synergy is not about one skill doing it all,but different and individual skills and passives work off or with each other do for a different result.
First look at Apply Poison
Preparation. For 24 seconds, foes struck by your physical attacks become Poisoned for 3...13...15 seconds.
Apply Poison is an individual skill that make only physical attacks to have poison and its not an upgrade to Incendiary Arrows.
Because Incendiary Arrows is a physical attack Apply Poison is able to add a poison effect to it.And Apply poison is still able to work individually.
Passives like Every Time You Cause knock-down You Gain 5 stacks of 100 % critical chance with Every time you hit with critical damage it causes bleeding.This is real Synergy.
Look at the Archeage build calculator that I posted above, then look at the combos section on the right. It shows 30 different combos that are available for that build alone. They are combos between different skills in the build. Example, attack A stuns the target, attack B inflicts knockdown on stunned targets.
Read the full thing before you write
I'll be honest i am sort of losing the train of thought?
Action combat DOES NEED faster animations that look unrealistic as in case of aforementioned GW's Ranged attack ,looks silly and much too fast.The real reason and i have played BOTH action gaming and controlled tab target gaming,is that Action needs more reliant on 100% looking at your target.However you can't 100% look at your target if you are looking at stats or your keyboard,so it is a design that works against itself.
It is MUCH better overall design "for a mmorpg" to be tab target because you can control the mob with hate mechanics and you can setup macros to use off the keyboard.Sure you can do as i have also seen games do which is to just work attacks off your r/l mouse buttons ,but i don't want to dumb combat down that badly.
You mention GW1 but i doubt you ever played FFXI vanilla,the ultimate grouping game with tons of abilities and mechanics for each class.The game also did not copy everyone else using the Hunter theme with a pet,you had your multiple ranged abilities with elemental arrows,sleep bolts,drain bolts ect ect .
The big difference is that FFXI had MORE depth than other games with it's Renkai system,sub class design,elemental properties both resistance and attack as well as other subtle nuances like what type of day it was as they also had elemental properties.In FFXI you had to actually tame your pet and it was not always reliable to stay by your side,most games just dot a pet on your hotbar and you somehow unrealistically summon it and it is 100% faithful at all times..../sigh.
My point is that before we talk about action versus tab,i need to see a developer come close to what Tanaka did in FFXI before i will even acknowledge a good or proper design.What else do i see,oh ya again the Ranged player has no actual ammo LMAO,nor do they need to craft it.There is just sooooooo much bad game design out there it makes me sad.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Are you even reading the damn link that I mentioned twice or are you just too caught up in making rude replies? For the 3rd time, the AA build that I linked shows the exact snergy that you talked about in your original post. It isn't rotations that are set in stone. That's a custom build. In AA you can pick any combination of 3 skillsets and put them together to make a class. The spells/attacks/abilities in the skillsets have synergy with the other skillsets, allowing for dozens of different combinations. Try to actually read people's replies instead of arguing with everyone who posts something that you dont like.
Think you for existing.I did play FFIX,but i didn't play it a lot.Many mmos at the time had to use synergy to make their games interesting.This post is not about one vs the other,but more about the best parts of tab combat the tactical and strategic and that it can work well with the fast and better animated action combat.You right they need to try more depth skill system with their action combat mmos,so combat is not just press one or mouse button one to the end of time.
It has nothing to do with me liking Archeage. You said that synergy is rare in games now. I pointed out a game that has the synergy you're talking about. You then follow up with a bunch of rude replies because you don't like our answers.
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