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We want a quick ride to endgame but complain at the end.
seeyouspacec0wboy
Member UncommonPosts: 714
Well, not me, but seemingly the majority of the current generation of gamers. Look, I understand catering games to the style of the bulk of the people playing them. These days that means games for people that don't have a lot of time, or have a short attention span, or both. Even though I'm not that person, I understand it and sometimes I can even get behind it.
However, I'm starting to realize that the number 1 complaint I read about MMORPG's these days is "I maxed several classes in a few months, did the end game stuff and now I'm bored."
It seems like even the people who want a casual ride and rush through content could use a game with at least a bit more of a grind. People are doing things WAY too fast and could use something to slow them down while the game has time to grow. That casualness is backfiring on them it seems.
I don't know, I started my MMORPG career with Final Fantasy XI in 2002, so of course I'm biased. But I'm not even saying I want that grind back. Just maybe some sort of balance between those old MMO's and the new ones.
Originally posted by Scagweed22
is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
Comments
I would read that as, "I had fun playing a game for a few months and then moved on." Well, either that or the person is an idiot for continuing to play a game that bores him. But usually the former. And that's not a bad thing, it takes a reasonably good game to be worth a few months of entertainment.
It should also be noted that the people who complain that it takes too long to level often aren't the same people as complain that there's not enough to do in the endgame.
Check any number of posts I've made on this subject and you'll see I really don't want a quick ride to endgame. I don't understand why so many people do, and they must or why would the devs keep on making the time it takes to hit the cap shorter with each MMO that releases?
I'd love an old school MMO to come out where you'd take months (like maybe 6-9) to even get to the cap, by which time an expansion would be coming out. Endgame? WTF is that, just play the new content and keep on going.
EQ had it spot on with their timing for expansions, none of this doing the same raids for 2 years like in Wow BS.
/rant off.
That's cause your reading posts from different groups of people and believing they are the same group. They are not.
The majority are casual, they come in for short periods of time then leave. These people take a long long long time to get to max level, if they ever get to max level. These people rarely come to the boards. The ones that make it to end game in short periods of time are not casuals. The ones that come to the boards are likely not casual.
Two different groups.
edit - use WoW as an example. The average time to get to max level is 6-9 days played. That is 144-216 hours. At even 10 hours a week which IMO is actually longer than most casual players play that is 14-21 weeks so 4-6 months. I think the average time for most casual is like 5 hours a week so closer to 8-12 months.
The act of "leveling" is an archaic system and I would like to see more MMOs avoid it. Guild Wars did a great job without it. Guild Wars 2 was annoying to grind as many levels as they had, but at least it had a decent story and made low-level content worth doing even if you outleveled it.
A MMORPG wouldn't be a RPG without some form of progression. Levels are the easy way of implementing it. I like Darkfall's concept of making skills level independently of each other and not having an overall character level. It would be nice to see a PvE (or PvE with PvP zones) MMO expand upon the idea more.
Well, the third option is that the person takes what is out there even if he/she knows they will tire fast.
I think a lot of the problem really is that most studios tries to make a game for everyone and that usually turns into a compromize that is so-so for everyone and means that the majority of the players are gone after a few months.
Maybe they earn more money that way, but a game that is focused on raids for exqamples with most of the content for raiders would keeps it's players longer as well as a game focused on leveling would.
Right now the majority of the players spend a few weeks leveling up in the open world but there is where the devs put 90% (or 75% or whatever, the majority) of the content. The majority of the content needs to be where most players spend the most time.
There are plenty of other ways to implement it as well, many pen and paper games (like Shadowrun or old Runequest to mention 2) Have good systems that would work fine in MMOs as well.
And if people think it is complicated to buy ups for karma, XP or whatever you can just have a recommendation for anyone lazy or new.
The problem of having skills that works independant from eachother is balance, the MMOs I played that worked that way have all been a lot worst balanced then the levelbased ones. There are solutions to that but none feels really good.
The problem that most complain is , we don't have much game to play aside from the "quick ride" and you have to do "quick ride" to play those game (if the themepark have those game).
Problem ? the developer spend more time for quick ride then release before add more game aside from the "quick ride".
Ever go to theme parks ?
What do you think if the park only have 1 long ride and nothing else ?
Yes I want quick ride to endgame. I don't want the endgame gear grind. I don't like time sinks designed just to slow a player down. Some Devs think the longer it takes a person to reach max the longer they will play. For me it doesn't work that way. If a game has me bored while leveling then I'll just leave that game. If I enjoyed leveling I usually stay.
Example: GW2 has easy and quick leveling. I enjoyed the game so much I leveled up one of every profession. And I still log in regularly to fight world bosses, replay my favorite quests, and such. So quick leveling actually made me a regular with that game. I could care less about having the latest gear. All I need is gear good enough for me to have fun.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I love the genre for the most part. Leveling, exploring, grouping, crafting. I am definitely not looking for a quick ride to the end. For example: playing ESO at the moment, 3 toons, highest being level 34 and been playing since early access. I take in everything, complete every zone , read every piece of lore/book I pick up and never skip through a cut scene. I've been playing MMORPG's since UO and have played and stuck with every game I truly enjoyed for years. EQ for about 4 years, DAOC for about 3-4 years, Wow up to WOTLK/this one traded time with EQ2.
I played nearly every major MMO that has come out, but only stuck with the ones I've really liked, mostly with good back story/lore.
Everyone plays different, but there is a very vocal minority that want no progression and complain the end game sucks. I really think the gamers play MMO's like console games.....as if they can win. I play MMO's for the complete experience and always share it with friends and guild, I'm that player that takes his time out to run lowbies through dungeons and run into low level zones and give away items or /raffle them. MMO's to me are a living and breathing world, not something to "win". I'm a very casual player and only play 5-10 hours a week, too many priorities messing up my gaming time these days.
Everyone plays for their own reason, I care not if it's different from my own reasons.
I think most want to race to end game, because everything that leads to that is just NOT FUN.. At least not in the sense you want to do that activity or area for more then an hour.. Going from one quest hub to another is just a series of speed bumps that most want to avoid, and I don't blame them.. Game worlds from newbie to max are often void of other players, since most are already max level, and maybe you find someone that is leveling up their 5th alt character..
I find end game completely void of any fun.. Gear grinding instanced zones is just boring as shit.. The same dungeon, the same mobs and I already know how to kill the bosses with my eyes closed.. It's not that hard to design inviting , reward and fun game worlds, we just NEED better devs with vivid imaginations and know how.. I know I could easily design an immersive dynamic world to play in..
Just move onto the next game.
I am never bored though i like to finish content. Sure there are games with grinds that is naturally fun (D3 and marvel heroes) and I play a little more of those. But how is the casualness backfiring if I don't need a game to last a long time?
In fact, i think it is great ... i get to see and play more games. I really don't want to stuck in a single game for a long time.
LOL, I read the title and had to laugh.
It reminds me of the mindset of todays World of Warcraft community.
98%(give or take) of them fall under that title.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
That is the truth of it.
"Variety's the very spice of life, that gives it all it's flavour." - William Cowper
The most desired things are usually the things you don't already have. Once you have that "most desired thing", it's swiftly replaced by yet another "must have" thing...
Now add to that the fact that any pleasure becomes diluted the more often it is repeated. You always need to increase the dosage to achieve the same high as with the previous shot. Beating that final boss is awesome the first time, not so much the twentieth time.
This is just a symptom of the fact that most MMORPGs are badly made games with shitty RPG aspects that make up for it by catering to gambling/power addiction mechanics.
People get seduced by all the flash of big numbers and "progression" etc. Then they realize there is nothing actually there.
MMORPGs are basically a girl who looks really good when she is in a nice dress and has the make up all done up, but after you date her for a month you realize she is dumb as a rock, shallow as a puddle and looks like crap without makeup.
Of course people complain. The real issue is that they never learn and keep dating girls who have nothing going for them but some makeup and a nice dress. And are surprised when they wind up with another shallow idiot. Not that they are complaining that something that is boring is in fact boring. That parts makes perfect sense.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Taking my above metaphor of dating stupid shallow girls...
There is nothing wrong with the quoted sentiment here in regards to that metaphor because he knows he is going to move on. There is nothing wrong with getting a little fun out of that arrangement for a week or a month, problem occurs when you try to date them for longer.
And this is exactly what you see. People who move from one to the next are fine. People who are looking for a longer term thing run into exactly the same problem that the metaphor alludes to.
If you forced nariusseldon to continue playing one of these games for twice as long as whatever time span it takes for him to get the itch to move to the next one, you will see the same complaints. This is the way life works. A lot of men work this way, especially when they are young.
Stupid and shallow is fine when its new and fresh. But after a certain span of time it starts to grate. Some people get bitter, some people get distant, some people move on to something more fresh.
In the end its all the same situation causing somewhat different reactions in various people.
Interesting that you put "slow" in there.
Why does the rate matter?
Isn't hard/challenging and meaningful completely sufficient to make it good?
The fact that anyone feels the need to specify "slow" or "fast" as a characteristic sends really loud alarm bells to my mind. It indicates that the content itself is not actually sufficiently interesting or else you would simply be thinking about how to actual DO it rather than how LONG it will take.
No need to read this thread any further...
QFT!
for me the problem is still the mindset of developers.
I see faster leveling as a reagl good thing because if you look at older games it is the most limting mechanic and has so much negative impact on things to do, places to go, equipemt and more. In addition it doesn't matter if leveling takes 1 week or half a year - in most cases the content will be dead after a player reached higher levels. On the other hand fast leveling require more "endgame" and that is the current issue. Developers still spent most resources for leveling-content likethey used to do 10 years ago but speeded up the consumption. What they need to learn is to actualy reduce content for leving and increase the resources spent on endgame at the very beginning. Of course they need to do some decent work on activities and progression of the endgame, the amount of content is secondary if you can just fly through it(if you an clear a whole raidzone within the first week than it is lousy design).
Of course.
But that is the point. In this day and age of an abundance in entertainment, I am not forced to play any games for twice as long as it would get boring.
Also note that a "girl" metaphor can also carry so far. Entertainment is not girls. They don't have feelings, and emotional attachment. I feel comfortable "using" entertainment and discarding as I see fit, because to me, they have no other purpose but to amuse me.
My wife (and relationship to real life people .. not counting strangers in PUGs who can be treated as NPCs), of course, is a completely different story.