Discussions from the official boards.

SlyLoK

I thought I would start similar discussion here as not everyone can post on the official boards ( Like me ).

What type of questing if any would you want?

Less is more IMO. I wouldnt want to see hundreds and hundreds of quests that ahve no point. I like the way ESO handles it in that many of quests you will get are picked up as you are out and about and most of them have a point to them. I also wouldnt want to see the game have questing as the main form of progression.

There is also talk about having to complete certain tasks before you can go to the next " tier ".. I am not sure if I like being forced to do something to progress.

Soloing and Grouping.

Games should have both. This game will probably not have a big population and not having some solo content will mean even smaller player numbers and more trouble for groups.

Con System

I like the way EQ1 had it but I would rather see an experiment done with an enemy naming scheme. Lets say you come across a bandit camp and you see the following level 20 enemies. Just by looking at their name you would get a general idea of their strength.

Bandit Underling - This enemy is basically the ' go do that ' of the bandits and is weaker than the others. This enemy would be good for a solo player. 

Bandit Henchman / Hunter - These enemies do the heavy lifting of the group and are well trained combatants. These enemies would be good for 2+ players of around level 20. 

Bandit Captain / Lieutenant / Leader - These enemies have a great amount of experience and skill. These enemies would be good for full groups.

Vesavius

Originally posted by SlyLoK

I thought I would start similar discussion here as not everyone can post on the official boards ( Like me ).

What type of questing if any would you want?

Questing... I sincerely would like to see a return to the classic EQ model. I agree that less is more and quests should be quests, not jobs, for the most part. If a player sees a market in skeleton bones then they will self determine to go out and kill skeletons for their bones, they don't need a 'quest' to tell them to gather 5 of them in return for a new hat.

I would honestly even go as far as the text/ keyword mechanic myself. This game is going to be niche anyhow, we know this, so there isn't any need to try to broaden appeal by copying WoW's system. If these guys are going to make a specialist game for a core playerbase then they need to embrace that and throw out a lot of the fashionable thinking that has ruined the genre over the years. Quests are an ideal example of where this should start.

I am not sure if I like being forced to do something to progress.

Well, even EQ 'forced' you to do things in order to progress to the next. That it itself isn't an issue, as long as what you are asked to do has a great investment/ fun/ reward ratio.

Soloing and Grouping. Games should have both.

I agree, but a balance needs to be attained. Far too often the removal of too much forced grouping just turns into forced soloing. Grouping needs to be far more rewarding and fun than soloing. Soloing, ideally, should be something that's there intended to fill in the gaps while waiting for friends or whatever, not as a primary play style. I am not saying that quests and the like shouldn't have solo steps and the like, but if you create a world where grouping and soloing is treated equally then you are, in effect, ultimately just creating a solo game, and there are enough of those.

Treating soloing in an MMORPG as equal to grouping is asking for trouble and will most of the time deliver a fractured nasty community. You remove interdependence and the need for cooperation from your game and you destroy one of the primary drivers for community and peer policing (the need for a decent reputation and the like).

Con System

I am happy with the classic EQ approach here.

 

In the end, I personally want Pantheon to be 'evolved old school', much in the same way as many 'Old School Revival' table top RPG approach the classic D&D game. I want the bones and spirit of EQ to be kept alive, while refining some of the more clunky design.

I actually would personally just love for SOE to reform Verant, give them the free use of their engine, and spin them off to make a. 'Everquest Evolved' version of the classic game via Kickstarter or whatever. I want to believe in Pantheon, but I just think that it might start heading inevitably down the road of compromise and echo chamber fashionable thought as it's core vision gets inevitably diluted by new money and the like. I hope not.

Fingers crossed, because I ideally want a real open world challenging and immersive PvE MMORPG to play at some point.

Elmberry

Originally posted by SlyLoK

I thought I would start similar discussion here as not everyone can post on the official boards ( Like me ).

What type of questing if any would you want?

Less is more IMO. I wouldnt want to see hundreds and hundreds of quests that ahve no point. I like the way ESO handles it in that many of quests you will get are picked up as you are out and about and most of them have a point to them. I also wouldnt want to see the game have questing as the main form of progression.

There is also talk about having to complete certain tasks before you can go to the next " tier ".. I am not sure if I like being forced to do something to progress.

Soloing and Grouping.

Games should have both. This game will probably not have a big population and not having some solo content will mean even smaller player numbers and more trouble for groups.

Con System

I like the way EQ1 had it but I would rather see an experiment done with an enemy naming scheme. Lets say you come across a bandit camp and you see the following level 20 enemies. Just by looking at their name you would get a general idea of their strength.

Bandit Underling - This enemy is basically the ' go do that ' of the bandits and is weaker than the others. This enemy would be good for a solo player. 

Bandit Henchman / Hunter - These enemies do the heavy lifting of the group and are well trained combatants. These enemies would be good for 2+ players of around level 20. 

Bandit Captain / Lieutenant / Leader - These enemies have a great amount of experience and skill. These enemies would be good for full groups.

I think PRotF should be more about exploring. They should foucs on exploring an open world and not about quest at all, at least in the beginning. What I mean with that is... They should first make the game really exciting and fun without any quest at all and when it's that fun they can add some quests which takes more time to do for both solo and group players. If they focus as I said about exploring we will not be forced to do 100's of quests the first days when we play the game, just to have fun, as in most other newer games. Todays questing consist more about running between quests than actually doing them. That's quite boring.

Other things:

They should also make the game a more social experience. Not that you need to group all the time, but you can ask other people to help you with services like binding, teleports and powerful buffs. Faction system like in EQ would be great to have also.

Kilsin

This is a great discussion and you are all pretty much spot on with what we want Pantheon to be also.

The idea is to create a similar experience to EQ while using elements from VG that worked well and include some new and exciting/more modern features such as climate etc.

There will not be any ! or ? above Npcs heads and there will not be anywhere near as many quests as VG had, it will be a more about seeking out adventure and finding npcs yourself throughout the world.

We want to have a good mix of big open dungeons and also open world content which will be mainly group based but of course there will be mobs you can solo (some classes better than others depending on skills/gear etc.)

I just wanted to pop in and say thanks, I appreciate mature and civil discussions like this as this is the type of feedback we watch closely.

Elmberry

Originally posted by Kilsin

This is a great discussion and you are all pretty much spot on with what we want Pantheon to be also.

The idea is to create a similar experience to EQ while using elements from VG that worked well and include some new and exciting/more modern features such as climate etc.

There will not be any ! or ? above Npcs heads and there will not be anywhere near as many quests as VG had, it will be a more about seeking out adventure and finding npcs yourself throughout the world.

We want to have a good mix of big open dungeons and also open world content which will be mainly group based but of course there will be mobs you can solo (some classes better than others depending on skills/gear etc.)

I just wanted to pop in and say thanks, I appreciate mature and civil discussions like this as this is the type of feedback we watch closely.

I think one thing in VG which could work little better was their dungeons. I think that no dungeons should have really hard mobs guarding the entry. It means that those waiting for a group have a really boring time and will probably give up and leave the area if they have nothing todo while waiting for a group. It will also encourage those who solo to eventually join groups to bring down harder named ones if they can solo some inside them. They should instead invite players to visit them and in the end without they know it "lure" them to join groups. In VG the entry in most interresting dungeon was guarded by one or two 4 dots mobs, which indirectly scared away people from dungeons and caused them to be quite empty. Instead I would prefer that it wasn't any dot system at all. More how it was in EQ, named ones (same difficulty) and common mobs (with slightly less difficulty than in EQ).

An MMO which have survival touch built in?

I would like to have really narrow tunnels in dungeons where you are encouraged to use first person view, like in Guk in EQ. The dungeons I have seen in Pantheon so far regarding this could be much better designed. It's really boring to visit wide dungeons. It's much more interresting and scary to visit dungeons with really narrow tunnels (as in EQ/Guk) as you almost have a claustrophobic feeling about them. It's those dungeons which causes memories. That's what I would like to have.

I also prefer darker and humanoid built dungeons than tunnels which looks like the nature have created them as most dungeons in WoW looks like.

I would also like that you need torches when you enter them and you can put torches along the walls to light them up. So you can pull mobs from a dark room into your room which is light up. Dungeons should be scary which causes memories. What lurks behind the corner over there? Anyone wants to go first? Bring back the memories please.

Bring also back the food which means something. Food which doesn't heal (as in WoW), but let you regen health slightly faster during 3-4 hours and water which causes you to regen mana and stamina slightly faster during same period of time. The scary part about this is if you are out of food or water and your regen is really slow.

Bring also back where you walk really slow when you are overburden and carry the heavy treasure back after a really successful adventure in the mountains or dungeons.

 

Kilsin

Originally posted by drivendawn
I used to play FFXI and am aware it was modeled off EQ. I was wondering if this game was going to have NM's or open world bosses that will drop loot that will stay relevant and if so how will they work?

The team is big on immersive Dungeons and I am sure we will also have a few overland mobs, as Brad mentioned them when talking about groups, so I think a nice mix of both would best suit Pantheon. It's just getting that balance right though.

Kilsin

Originally posted by Elmberry

Originally posted by Kilsin

This is a great discussion and you are all pretty much spot on with what we want Pantheon to be also.

The idea is to create a similar experience to EQ while using elements from VG that worked well and include some new and exciting/more modern features such as climate etc.

There will not be any ! or ? above Npcs heads and there will not be anywhere near as many quests as VG had, it will be a more about seeking out adventure and finding npcs yourself throughout the world.

We want to have a good mix of big open dungeons and also open world content which will be mainly group based but of course there will be mobs you can solo (some classes better than others depending on skills/gear etc.)

I just wanted to pop in and say thanks, I appreciate mature and civil discussions like this as this is the type of feedback we watch closely.

I think one thing in VG which could work little better was their dungeons. I think that no dungeons should have really hard mobs guarding the entry. It means that those waiting for a group have a really boring time and will probably give up and leave the area if they have nothing todo while waiting for a group. It will also encourage those who solo to eventually join groups to bring down harder named ones if they can solo some inside them. They should instead invite players to visit them and in the end without they know it "lure" them to join groups. In VG the entry in most interresting dungeon was guarded by one or two 4 dots mobs, which indirectly scared away people from dungeons and caused them to be quite empty. Instead I would prefer that it wasn't any dot system at all. More how it was in EQ, named ones (same difficulty) and common mobs (with slightly less difficulty than in EQ).

An MMO which have survival touch built in?

I would like to have really narrow tunnels in dungeons where you are encouraged to use first person view, like in Guk in EQ. The dungeons I have seen in Pantheon so far regarding this could be much better designed. It's really boring to visit wide dungeons. It's much more interresting and scary to visit dungeons with really narrow tunnels (as in EQ/Guk) as you almost have a claustrophobic feeling about them. It's those dungeons which causes memories. That's what I would like to have.

I also prefer darker and humanoid built dungeons than tunnels which looks like the nature have created them as most dungeons in WoW looks like.

I would also like that you need torches when you enter them and you can put torches along the walls to light them up. So you can pull mobs from a dark room into your room which is light up. Dungeons should be scary which causes memories. What lurks behind the corner over there? Anyone wants to go first? Bring back the memories please.

Bring also back the food which means something. Food which doesn't heal (as in WoW), but let you regen health slightly faster during 3-4 hours and water which causes you to regen mana and stamina slightly faster during same period of time. The scary part about this is if you are out of food or water and your regen is really slow.

Bring also back where you walk really slow when you are overburden and carry the heavy treasure back after a really successful adventure in the mountains or dungeons.

 

A number of those idea's we have discussed and a lot of the team enjoy a variety of dungeons types,  so we will of course mix it up to have a few unique experience and there will be different types with different vibes/levels of immersion going on in them depending on where they are located and what the back story may be. We are really trying to entwine our world with our lore, so you get a feel for your location, not just an empty shell you run through, we want it to mean something and be a memorable experience/journey.

I can't speak to the survival aspects yet as I am not sure if they will be included or not but to some degree there will be survival with elements/climate and gear etc. but it's still early in development and a lot of mechanics are being discussed.

Brad has said there will be an encumbrance system of some sort in Pantheon but again, this hasn't been fleshed out yet or implemented, so we can't really talk about it much until we get to that point.

Elmberry

Originally posted by Kilsin

Originally posted by Elmberry

Originally posted by Kilsin

This is a great discussion and you are all pretty much spot on with what we want Pantheon to be also.

The idea is to create a similar experience to EQ while using elements from VG that worked well and include some new and exciting/more modern features such as climate etc.

There will not be any ! or ? above Npcs heads and there will not be anywhere near as many quests as VG had, it will be a more about seeking out adventure and finding npcs yourself throughout the world.

We want to have a good mix of big open dungeons and also open world content which will be mainly group based but of course there will be mobs you can solo (some classes better than others depending on skills/gear etc.)

I just wanted to pop in and say thanks, I appreciate mature and civil discussions like this as this is the type of feedback we watch closely.

I think one thing in VG which could work little better was their dungeons. I think that no dungeons should have really hard mobs guarding the entry. It means that those waiting for a group have a really boring time and will probably give up and leave the area if they have nothing todo while waiting for a group. It will also encourage those who solo to eventually join groups to bring down harder named ones if they can solo some inside them. They should instead invite players to visit them and in the end without they know it "lure" them to join groups. In VG the entry in most interresting dungeon was guarded by one or two 4 dots mobs, which indirectly scared away people from dungeons and caused them to be quite empty. Instead I would prefer that it wasn't any dot system at all. More how it was in EQ, named ones (same difficulty) and common mobs (with slightly less difficulty than in EQ).

An MMO which have survival touch built in?

I would like to have really narrow tunnels in dungeons where you are encouraged to use first person view, like in Guk in EQ. The dungeons I have seen in Pantheon so far regarding this could be much better designed. It's really boring to visit wide dungeons. It's much more interresting and scary to visit dungeons with really narrow tunnels (as in EQ/Guk) as you almost have a claustrophobic feeling about them. It's those dungeons which causes memories. That's what I would like to have.

I also prefer darker and humanoid built dungeons than tunnels which looks like the nature have created them as most dungeons in WoW looks like.

I would also like that you need torches when you enter them and you can put torches along the walls to light them up. So you can pull mobs from a dark room into your room which is light up. Dungeons should be scary which causes memories. What lurks behind the corner over there? Anyone wants to go first? Bring back the memories please.

Bring also back the food which means something. Food which doesn't heal (as in WoW), but let you regen health slightly faster during 3-4 hours and water which causes you to regen mana and stamina slightly faster during same period of time. The scary part about this is if you are out of food or water and your regen is really slow.

Bring also back where you walk really slow when you are overburden and carry the heavy treasure back after a really successful adventure in the mountains or dungeons.

 

A number of those idea's we have discussed and a lot of the team enjoy a variety of dungeons types,  so we will of course mix it up to have a few unique experience and there will be different types with different vibes/levels of immersion going on in them depending on where they are located and what the back story may be. We are really trying to entwine our world with our lore, so you get a feel for your location, not just an empty shell you run through, we want it to mean something and be a memorable experience/journey.

I can't speak to the survival aspects yet as I am not sure if they will be included or not but to some degree there will be survival with elements/climate and gear etc. but it's still early in development and a lot of mechanics are being discussed.

Brad has said there will be an encumbrance system of some sort in Pantheon but again, this hasn't been fleshed out yet or implemented, so we can't really talk about it much until we get to that point.

Ok, thanks.

Kilsin

Originally posted by Elmberry

Originally posted by Kilsin

Originally posted by Elmberry

Originally posted by Kilsin

This is a great discussion and you are all pretty much spot on with what we want Pantheon to be also.

The idea is to create a similar experience to EQ while using elements from VG that worked well and include some new and exciting/more modern features such as climate etc.

There will not be any ! or ? above Npcs heads and there will not be anywhere near as many quests as VG had, it will be a more about seeking out adventure and finding npcs yourself throughout the world.

We want to have a good mix of big open dungeons and also open world content which will be mainly group based but of course there will be mobs you can solo (some classes better than others depending on skills/gear etc.)

I just wanted to pop in and say thanks, I appreciate mature and civil discussions like this as this is the type of feedback we watch closely.

I think one thing in VG which could work little better was their dungeons. I think that no dungeons should have really hard mobs guarding the entry. It means that those waiting for a group have a really boring time and will probably give up and leave the area if they have nothing todo while waiting for a group. It will also encourage those who solo to eventually join groups to bring down harder named ones if they can solo some inside them. They should instead invite players to visit them and in the end without they know it "lure" them to join groups. In VG the entry in most interresting dungeon was guarded by one or two 4 dots mobs, which indirectly scared away people from dungeons and caused them to be quite empty. Instead I would prefer that it wasn't any dot system at all. More how it was in EQ, named ones (same difficulty) and common mobs (with slightly less difficulty than in EQ).

An MMO which have survival touch built in?

I would like to have really narrow tunnels in dungeons where you are encouraged to use first person view, like in Guk in EQ. The dungeons I have seen in Pantheon so far regarding this could be much better designed. It's really boring to visit wide dungeons. It's much more interresting and scary to visit dungeons with really narrow tunnels (as in EQ/Guk) as you almost have a claustrophobic feeling about them. It's those dungeons which causes memories. That's what I would like to have.

I also prefer darker and humanoid built dungeons than tunnels which looks like the nature have created them as most dungeons in WoW looks like.

I would also like that you need torches when you enter them and you can put torches along the walls to light them up. So you can pull mobs from a dark room into your room which is light up. Dungeons should be scary which causes memories. What lurks behind the corner over there? Anyone wants to go first? Bring back the memories please.

Bring also back the food which means something. Food which doesn't heal (as in WoW), but let you regen health slightly faster during 3-4 hours and water which causes you to regen mana and stamina slightly faster during same period of time. The scary part about this is if you are out of food or water and your regen is really slow.

Bring also back where you walk really slow when you are overburden and carry the heavy treasure back after a really successful adventure in the mountains or dungeons.

 

A number of those idea's we have discussed and a lot of the team enjoy a variety of dungeons types,  so we will of course mix it up to have a few unique experience and there will be different types with different vibes/levels of immersion going on in them depending on where they are located and what the back story may be. We are really trying to entwine our world with our lore, so you get a feel for your location, not just an empty shell you run through, we want it to mean something and be a memorable experience/journey.

I can't speak to the survival aspects yet as I am not sure if they will be included or not but to some degree there will be survival with elements/climate and gear etc. but it's still early in development and a lot of mechanics are being discussed.

Brad has said there will be an encumbrance system of some sort in Pantheon but again, this hasn't been fleshed out yet or implemented, so we can't really talk about it much until we get to that point.

Ok, thanks.

You're Welcome Elmberry

Kilsin

Originally posted by drivendawn

Originally posted by Kilsin

Originally posted by drivendawn
I used to play FFXI and am aware it was modeled off EQ. I was wondering if this game was going to have NM's or open world bosses that will drop loot that will stay relevant and if so how will they work?

The team is big on immersive Dungeons and I am sure we will also have a few overland mobs, as Brad mentioned them when talking about groups, so I think a nice mix of both would best suit Pantheon. It's just getting that balance right though.

Ok, I was wondering because I like the idea of it but didn't like 24 hour spawn times with 3% drop rates with everyone camping them. I always thought having an item you have to work for and can use to make the over world boss appear for your group only, was a good way around all the camping. Also maybe make it doable once a day or week depending on the how awsome it's drops. 

We were actually having a discussion about this on the developer/community forums the other day, a lot of good idea's were being tossed around too.

Website is: https://www.pantheonrotf.com if you were interested in searching "camp" and checking out the threads.

mrbungle419

Originally posted by Kilsin

Originally posted by drivendawn

Originally posted by Kilsin

Originally posted by drivendawn
I used to play FFXI and am aware it was modeled off EQ. I was wondering if this game was going to have NM's or open world bosses that will drop loot that will stay relevant and if so how will they work?

The team is big on immersive Dungeons and I am sure we will also have a few overland mobs, as Brad mentioned them when talking about groups, so I think a nice mix of both would best suit Pantheon. It's just getting that balance right though.

Ok, I was wondering because I like the idea of it but didn't like 24 hour spawn times with 3% drop rates with everyone camping them. I always thought having an item you have to work for and can use to make the over world boss appear for your group only, was a good way around all the camping. Also maybe make it doable once a day or week depending on the how awsome it's drops. 

We were actually having a discussion about this on the developer/community forums the other day, a lot of good idea's were being tossed around too.

Website is: https://www.pantheonrotf.com if you were interested in searching "camp" and checking out the threads.

I'm already worried that this game will end up being in the middle of what made EQ great and what killed VG (for me).  VG had named NPCs spawned all the time.  It encouraged groups do just do named jumping, where people would just carry tombstones around and rez at a named. 

This game seems to be a niche game, I hope they embrace that and make an immersive game world that can be intimidating and difficult.  A game that has penalties and frustration.  I find these types of games to be the most fun.  Allowing a player to just spawn an overland world boss specifically for their group would indicate to me that this is already a lost cause. 

Karble

I think there needs to be a bit more attention payed to character and mob animations than before. With motion capture you can have far more realistic movements in combat.

 

I like mob patterns as well that you have to learn a bit, but not with huge glowing tells on the ground unless totally needed.

For instance: your group is fighting a named evil martial skilled creature (Shadow Ninja?). He casts 2 duplicates of himself and they have lower hp but higher attacks. Once the duplicates are dead he uses something similar to a flashbang and goes invisible to attack the weakest health player. After this he goes into channeling state with a shield up that needs to be broken thru with burst damage before he gets back all his health.  His attacks range from triple punch to roundhouse to foot sweeps, to blowing blinding powder in player's face and more.

Sure it cost a bit, but the gameplay would be alot of fun and draw many many players.

 

Kilsin

Originally posted by mrbungle419

Originally posted by Kilsin

Originally posted by drivendawn

Originally posted by Kilsin

Originally posted by drivendawn
I used to play FFXI and am aware it was modeled off EQ. I was wondering if this game was going to have NM's or open world bosses that will drop loot that will stay relevant and if so how will they work?

The team is big on immersive Dungeons and I am sure we will also have a few overland mobs, as Brad mentioned them when talking about groups, so I think a nice mix of both would best suit Pantheon. It's just getting that balance right though.

Ok, I was wondering because I like the idea of it but didn't like 24 hour spawn times with 3% drop rates with everyone camping them. I always thought having an item you have to work for and can use to make the over world boss appear for your group only, was a good way around all the camping. Also maybe make it doable once a day or week depending on the how awsome it's drops. 

We were actually having a discussion about this on the developer/community forums the other day, a lot of good idea's were being tossed around too.

Website is: https://www.pantheonrotf.com if you were interested in searching "camp" and checking out the threads.

I'm already worried that this game will end up being in the middle of what made EQ great and what killed VG (for me).  VG had named NPCs spawned all the time.  It encouraged groups do just do named jumping, where people would just carry tombstones around and rez at a named. 

This game seems to be a niche game, I hope they embrace that and make an immersive game world that can be intimidating and difficult.  A game that has penalties and frustration.  I find these types of games to be the most fun.  Allowing a player to just spawn an overland world boss specifically for their group would indicate to me that this is already a lost cause. 

I didn't say anything about spawning mobs!

I just said we are looking at a mix of Dungeons and some overlands and the discussion about that and camps is on the forums now. You are welcome to join that discussion and have your say.

The game is being made for a niche audience and as I posted earlier, it will be modelled off of EQ with some mechanics and systems from VG that worked well, not ones that were broken

But instead of jumping to conclusions too early, you can instead head on over to the forums and have your say while we are creating these mechanics and systems.

I agree with you about challenges and frustrations, I think that is what made EQ so good and that is the type of challenge we are looking for with Pantheon.

Kilsin

Originally posted by Karble

I think there needs to be a bit more attention payed to character and mob animations than before. With motion capture you can have far more realistic movements in combat.

 

I like mob patterns as well that you have to learn a bit, but not with huge glowing tells on the ground unless totally needed.

For instance: your group is fighting a named evil martial skilled creature (Shadow Ninja?). He casts 2 duplicates of himself and they have lower hp but higher attacks. Once the duplicates are dead he uses something similar to a flashbang and goes invisible to attack the weakest health player. After this he goes into channeling state with a shield up that needs to be broken thru with burst damage before he gets back all his health.  His attacks range from triple punch to roundhouse to foot sweeps, to blowing blinding powder in player's face and more.

Sure it cost a bit, but the gameplay would be alot of fun and draw many many players.

 

Yeah I am with you on the pathing patterns, I think it's important to try and get the Npcs to react in a way that is as natural to their surrounding, story and character as possible.

I like your idea's on a named mob too, I am not sure a ninja would fit Pantheon but I know you were using that as an example, we could turn that into a more lore friendly mob and create a challenging encounter, good ideas mate

mrbungle419

Originally posted by Kilsin

Originally posted by mrbungle419

Originally posted by Kilsin

Originally posted by drivendawn

Originally posted by Kilsin

Originally posted by drivendawn
I used to play FFXI and am aware it was modeled off EQ. I was wondering if this game was going to have NM's or open world bosses that will drop loot that will stay relevant and if so how will they work?

The team is big on immersive Dungeons and I am sure we will also have a few overland mobs, as Brad mentioned them when talking about groups, so I think a nice mix of both would best suit Pantheon. It's just getting that balance right though.

Ok, I was wondering because I like the idea of it but didn't like 24 hour spawn times with 3% drop rates with everyone camping them. I always thought having an item you have to work for and can use to make the over world boss appear for your group only, was a good way around all the camping. Also maybe make it doable once a day or week depending on the how awsome it's drops. 

We were actually having a discussion about this on the developer/community forums the other day, a lot of good idea's were being tossed around too.

Website is: https://www.pantheonrotf.com if you were interested in searching "camp" and checking out the threads.

I'm already worried that this game will end up being in the middle of what made EQ great and what killed VG (for me).  VG had named NPCs spawned all the time.  It encouraged groups do just do named jumping, where people would just carry tombstones around and rez at a named. 

This game seems to be a niche game, I hope they embrace that and make an immersive game world that can be intimidating and difficult.  A game that has penalties and frustration.  I find these types of games to be the most fun.  Allowing a player to just spawn an overland world boss specifically for their group would indicate to me that this is already a lost cause. 

I didn't say anything about spawning mobs!

I just said we are looking at a mix of Dungeons and some overlands and the discussion about that and camps is on the forums now. You are welcome to join that discussion and have your say.

The game is being made for a niche audience and as I posted earlier, it will be modelled off of EQ with some mechanics and systems from VG that worked well, not ones that were broken

But instead of jumping to conclusions too early, you can instead head on over to the forums and have your say while we are creating these mechanics and systems.

I agree with you about challenges and frustrations, I think that is what made EQ so good and that is the type of challenge we are looking for with Pantheon.

I should have quoted the person you were responding too directly, and not you.  My response was to him and not you.  My mistake.  This is pretty much the only game I am interested in right now, so I am certainly still rooting for it and hope it does take the good from EQ and VG and expands on those ideas, and doesn't try and cater to everyone.  I'll continue following the game until it is released, or some specifics are released that I think will compromise my desire to play.

mrbungle419

Originally posted by drivendawn

Originally posted by mrbungle419

Originally posted by Kilsin

Originally posted by drivendawn

Originally posted by Kilsin

Originally posted by drivendawn
I used to play FFXI and am aware it was modeled off EQ. I was wondering if this game was going to have NM's or open world bosses that will drop loot that will stay relevant and if so how will they work?

The team is big on immersive Dungeons and I am sure we will also have a few overland mobs, as Brad mentioned them when talking about groups, so I think a nice mix of both would best suit Pantheon. It's just getting that balance right though.

Ok, I was wondering because I like the idea of it but didn't like 24 hour spawn times with 3% drop rates with everyone camping them. I always thought having an item you have to work for and can use to make the over world boss appear for your group only, was a good way around all the camping. Also maybe make it doable once a day or week depending on the how awsome it's drops. 

We were actually having a discussion about this on the developer/community forums the other day, a lot of good idea's were being tossed around too.

Website is: https://www.pantheonrotf.com if you were interested in searching "camp" and checking out the threads.

I'm already worried that this game will end up being in the middle of what made EQ great and what killed VG (for me).  VG had named NPCs spawned all the time.  It encouraged groups do just do named jumping, where people would just carry tombstones around and rez at a named. 

This game seems to be a niche game, I hope they embrace that and make an immersive game world that can be intimidating and difficult.  A game that has penalties and frustration.  I find these types of games to be the most fun.  Allowing a player to just spawn an overland world boss specifically for their group would indicate to me that this is already a lost cause. 

Um, well if they still had a small % chance drop and could only be done once a week it could still take time but on XI we had to compete with people bot claiming. For example my bro camped King Arthro for over a year for the Velocious Belt for his haste build on ninja and gave up because the bots, drop rate and 24 hour spawn time put together was retarded. Also you could get the items you need to pop the mobs in dungeons maybe in a chest deep inside said dungeon or on another boss inside the dungeon.

It has nothing to do with the loot.  It has to do with actually killing the boss that was scouted by everyone.  It is about the challenge the boss presents.  It is about the team effort required to kill it and scout it.  It is about the rarity of getting an opportunity to kill it.  It is knowing that one wipe means another team can come in and swoop up your kill.  It is about competition.

The example given feels nothing like a world boss.  It feels like an instanced boss with a low drop rate and a lockout timer.  What's the difference between that and an attunement put on an instance?  You complete a quest, you get unlimited access to the boss until it dies, and then a week later you get to do it again.  Sounds familiar and terrible.

Kilsin

Originally posted by mrbungle419

Originally posted by Kilsin

Originally posted by mrbungle419

Originally posted by Kilsin

Originally posted by drivendawn

Originally posted by Kilsin

Originally posted by drivendawn
I used to play FFXI and am aware it was modeled off EQ. I was wondering if this game was going to have NM's or open world bosses that will drop loot that will stay relevant and if so how will they work?

The team is big on immersive Dungeons and I am sure we will also have a few overland mobs, as Brad mentioned them when talking about groups, so I think a nice mix of both would best suit Pantheon. It's just getting that balance right though.

Ok, I was wondering because I like the idea of it but didn't like 24 hour spawn times with 3% drop rates with everyone camping them. I always thought having an item you have to work for and can use to make the over world boss appear for your group only, was a good way around all the camping. Also maybe make it doable once a day or week depending on the how awsome it's drops. 

We were actually having a discussion about this on the developer/community forums the other day, a lot of good idea's were being tossed around too.

Website is: https://www.pantheonrotf.com if you were interested in searching "camp" and checking out the threads.

I'm already worried that this game will end up being in the middle of what made EQ great and what killed VG (for me).  VG had named NPCs spawned all the time.  It encouraged groups do just do named jumping, where people would just carry tombstones around and rez at a named. 

This game seems to be a niche game, I hope they embrace that and make an immersive game world that can be intimidating and difficult.  A game that has penalties and frustration.  I find these types of games to be the most fun.  Allowing a player to just spawn an overland world boss specifically for their group would indicate to me that this is already a lost cause. 

I didn't say anything about spawning mobs!

I just said we are looking at a mix of Dungeons and some overlands and the discussion about that and camps is on the forums now. You are welcome to join that discussion and have your say.

The game is being made for a niche audience and as I posted earlier, it will be modelled off of EQ with some mechanics and systems from VG that worked well, not ones that were broken

But instead of jumping to conclusions too early, you can instead head on over to the forums and have your say while we are creating these mechanics and systems.

I agree with you about challenges and frustrations, I think that is what made EQ so good and that is the type of challenge we are looking for with Pantheon.

I should have quoted the person you were responding too directly, and not you.  My response was to him and not you.  My mistake.  This is pretty much the only game I am interested in right now, so I am certainly still rooting for it and hope it does take the good from EQ and VG and expands on those ideas, and doesn't try and cater to everyone.  I'll continue following the game until it is released, or some specifics are released that I think will compromise my desire to play.

Ok thanks for clearing that up mate and for the support, have a listen to the Dev Round Table podcast if you haven't already, it clears up a lot of worries that some people had.

You can find it here: 

mrbungle419

Originally posted by Kilsin

Ok thanks for clearing that up mate and for the support, have a listen to the Dev Round Table podcast if you haven't already, it clears up a lot of worries that some people had.

You can find it here: 

Was probably about half way through listening to it when you posted this.  The details they have talked about that they are firm on are just what I hoped to hear.  Sub model is the only type of game I will play. 

 

Keep up the good work and keep the dream alive.  I have no doubts, with how awesome VG was at release (sans bugs), that so long as they stick to their vision, they will make an awesome game.  Just hope that nothing comes along and screws things up like SoE did with VG. 

mrbungle419

Originally posted by drivendawn

It was just an Idea.I never said the boss wouldn't be challenging. If you ask me if you have to go in a dungeon as a group to kill a boss for said pop item or find a treasure chest in a random spot every time with a possibility of not getting the pop item you need is working for it/challenging and adds depth without the need for indirect pvp over boss mobs.  Whats your Idea for stopping botting and the like from keeping people from getting their drops for way to long and causing problems in general? If you like indirect pvp with other players over boss mobs then I guess we fundamentally disagree and I'll stop right here.

I don't understand the dilema.  Difficult overland or dungeon bosses shouldn't be able to be killed by bots.  They don't despawn until they are killed.  They are on long respawn timers.  I don't understand what the problem of bots has to do with getting kills in competitive dungeons or overland spawns.  If you are saying they use bots for scouts and then can organize a raid/group faster than you, I don't see the problem.

SlyLoK

Originally posted by Kilsin

This is a great discussion and you are all pretty much spot on with what we want Pantheon to be also.

The idea is to create a similar experience to EQ while using elements from VG that worked well and include some new and exciting/more modern features such as climate etc.

There will not be any ! or ? above Npcs heads and there will not be anywhere near as many quests as VG had, it will be a more about seeking out adventure and finding npcs yourself throughout the world.

Agreed. But I think there should be some sort of indicator that will let a player know that they need help. It could be a simple text of NPC : " Oh drats. I am out of spider silk " as you walk by or maybe even them waving at you + " Can you help me?" text.

We want to have a good mix of big open dungeons and also open world content which will be mainly group based but of course there will be mobs you can solo (some classes better than others depending on skills/gear etc.)

I just wanted to pop in and say thanks, I appreciate mature and civil discussions like this as this is the type of feedback we watch closely.

I know it is a very long way off but I had a thought about the sub model or more about the cost. There has been so much made about all the f2p games out there now and how nearly every ( all as far as I know ) p2p MMO is set at 14.99 a month.. Why not try a different approach to gather more players? Maybe its 7.99/month or 9.99/month. Those that are already playing another p2p MMO or prefer f2p may see 7.99 / 9.99 worth it for a change of pace game or just for a look see. 14.99 is fine with me.. Just thinking about the population and such.

It is a good idea to have dungeons progressively get harder the deeper you go.. I really didnt like how VG almost always had 3 and 4 dots at the entrance. Giving players a taste just makes them want to see what else is further in and more likely to group up.

Harvesting and crafting is something that I think wont make it in for release and maybe not for awhile down the road. But I would definitely want to see harvesting in the same way Vanguard had it. I had tons of fun group harvesting and how the amount gained just ticked up based on your tool and skill. On the crafting side.. While I loved VGs crafting I would like to see it simplified just a hair.. I had fun selling weapons and harvesting tools. First time since UO I felt like crafting had a purpose.

As far as all dungeons and mobs being open and contested at anytime.. I am unsure on this one. I remember a good amount of headaches it caused. But at the same time it caused people to hang around areas and groups would form that may not have happened had players been able to quickly get an item they needed before moving on..

I do look forward to seeing the graphical updates that are being worked on and I do hope that animations / physics are a high priority. Those need to change or else the game could give folks a bad impression that may not have seen the game before or those that are just mildly interesting. I would be fine with canned physics ( or animations in this case ) for hair and clothing which is something games even now seem to forget.. Cardboard hair is sooo 1990s. But realtime physics for certain things would do really well for the game even if it isnt a technical marvel from a polygon standpoint.. Flowing cloaks and robes and hair..etc. 

When it comes to the UI I really enjoy a minimal approach and show only what is needed for whatever situation that you are in. If you arent in combat just have the chat box up but as soon as you go into combat mode all of your needed information comes up like your hotbar , health , mana , stamina..etc. For me it really brings the exploration aspect out even more. I really love it in ESO ( and Skyrim ).

Kilsin

Originally posted by mrbungle419

Originally posted by Kilsin

Ok thanks for clearing that up mate and for the support, have a listen to the Dev Round Table podcast if you haven't already, it clears up a lot of worries that some people had.

You can find it here: 

Was probably about half way through listening to it when you posted this.  The details they have talked about that they are firm on are just what I hoped to hear.  Sub model is the only type of game I will play. 

 

Keep up the good work and keep the dream alive.  I have no doubts, with how awesome VG was at release (sans bugs), that so long as they stick to their vision, they will make an awesome game.  Just hope that nothing comes along and screws things up like SoE did with VG. 

Thanks man, your support is appreciated

Kilsin

Originally posted by SlyLoK

Originally posted by Kilsin

This is a great discussion and you are all pretty much spot on with what we want Pantheon to be also.

The idea is to create a similar experience to EQ while using elements from VG that worked well and include some new and exciting/more modern features such as climate etc.

There will not be any ! or ? above Npcs heads and there will not be anywhere near as many quests as VG had, it will be a more about seeking out adventure and finding npcs yourself throughout the world.

Agreed. But I think there should be some sort of indicator that will let a player know that they need help. It could be a simple text of NPC : " Oh drats. I am out of spider silk " as you walk by or maybe even them waving at you + " Can you help me?" text.

Yes, this is still being discussed too, we are even throwing around ideas like movements and emotions like waving hands, whispering and beckoning with your finger/arm or verbal sound cues. We are looking at a range of mechanics for this but there may be some Npcs who are just minding their own business with a problem that are too shy to ask a complete stranger that they have never met before for help, you may have to ask them and communicate to them properly to get them to open up

We want to have a good mix of big open dungeons and also open world content which will be mainly group based but of course there will be mobs you can solo (some classes better than others depending on skills/gear etc.)

I just wanted to pop in and say thanks, I appreciate mature and civil discussions like this as this is the type of feedback we watch closely.

I know it is a very long way off but I had a thought about the sub model or more about the cost. There has been so much made about all the f2p games out there now and how nearly every ( all as far as I know ) p2p MMO is set at 14.99 a month.. Why not try a different approach to gather more players? Maybe its 7.99/month or 9.99/month. Those that are already playing another p2p MMO or prefer f2p may see 7.99 / 9.99 worth it for a change of pace game or just for a look see. 14.99 is fine with me.. Just thinking about the population and such.

The sub model has not been fully set in stone yet but we do want a subscription model after X free levels to test the game in the very early stages, the price of the Sub model has not been set yet but it will be a reasonable price that suits our game.

It is a good idea to have dungeons progressively get harder the deeper you go.. I really didnt like how VG almost always had 3 and 4 dots at the entrance. Giving players a taste just makes them want to see what else is further in and more likely to group up.

Brad addressed this in the Dev Round Table but dungeons will be all different levels and they will be tough, sure some classes will be able to solo into them and down a fair way if they have the skill, gear and determination, we will not stop that but one or two mistakes and they will end up having a bad day, dungeons are going to be designed for the most part for different sized groups.

Harvesting and crafting is something that I think wont make it in for release and maybe not for awhile down the road. But I would definitely want to see harvesting in the same way Vanguard had it. I had tons of fun group harvesting and how the amount gained just ticked up based on your tool and skill. On the crafting side.. While I loved VGs crafting I would like to see it simplified just a hair.. I had fun selling weapons and harvesting tools. First time since UO I felt like crafting had a purpose.

This is something I am passionate about too, i would love to see both Crafting and Harvesting in the game from launch but for that to happen we would need an investor or a big influx in crowd funding so we can get the devs needed to work on these systems. They will most likely be added as DLC, I would also like to see harvesting down like VG and even crafting but with a few tweaks

As far as all dungeons and mobs being open and contested at anytime.. I am unsure on this one. I remember a good amount of headaches it caused. But at the same time it caused people to hang around areas and groups would form that may not have happened had players been able to quickly get an item they needed before moving on..

I understand the concern but I also see the positives in it, healthy competition helps a community thrive, it also shows peoples frustrations and reactions which help to sort the good/friendly from the bad/unfriendly and the community will quickly form opinions on players and guilds who act selfishly instead of with the community in mind and police that behaviour within the community. I personally think contested content is a good thing in MMORPGs as long as it is balanced and monitored.

I do look forward to seeing the graphical updates that are being worked on and I do hope that animations / physics are a high priority. Those need to change or else the game could give folks a bad impression that may not have seen the game before or those that are just mildly interesting. I would be fine with canned physics ( or animations in this case ) for hair and clothing which is something games even now seem to forget.. Cardboard hair is sooo 1990s. But realtime physics for certain things would do really well for the game even if it isnt a technical marvel from a polygon standpoint.. Flowing cloaks and robes and hair..etc. 

There is some great stuff coming up over the next couple of months, I can't talk much about it at this stage but I am excited and can't wait to get it out to you guys!

When it comes to the UI I really enjoy a minimal approach and show only what is needed for whatever situation that you are in. If you arent in combat just have the chat box up but as soon as you go into combat mode all of your needed information comes up like your hotbar , health , mana , stamina..etc. For me it really brings the exploration aspect out even more. I really love it in ESO ( and Skyrim ).

We have discussed this heavily on the Dev forums and the community is split on this, so I think creating a UI with good functionality, appearance and ease of use with toggle options to add/remove parts would be the way to go personally but again, it is something that we continue to take feedback on.

Thanks for the feedback SlyLok, I hope my answers were of some help