Originally posted by QuizzicalYou're not familiar with Intel's pricing schemes. Go try to find a Core i5-2500K, -3570K, or -4670K today. See if you can find it for $100. Or $150. Or anything other than within rounding of the original price tag and up. Older Intel CPUs don't get price drops. They get discontinued.Furthermore, I'd like to point out that you're the one who introduced the K-series to this discussion, not me. This is a Core i5-4690:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116989No K on it, but it does have turbo up to 3.9 GHz rather than 3.2 GHz as VastoHorde recommends or 3.4 GHz as you recommend.And even if it did have a K on it, just because it can be overclocked doesn't mean that you have to. You'd recommend a Core i5-4690K over a Core i5-4460 if they were the same price, wouldn't you? Actually, you might not, but most people would.
Go find ANY brand new sandy/ivy bridge CPU - you won't find any. Upgrading later and for full price as you suggested is not going to happen. It will be either second hand for the price of 100-150 USD or new platform.
I did pointed all that out already. Yet again you like to repeat what others have said, even when it is rebutting your own previous points...
Recommending non K i5-4690 is plain silly and would be difficult to fit into a budget, so it is a moot point anyway.
i5-4460 is not the same price as i5-4690(k), so what is your point again? You trying to be even more pointless there?
A H81 chipset mobo is never a good choice except for a basic office-only like use of a computer, so that's a really bad choice.
a 4460 over a 4690 is almost never a good choice, expect in select circumstances and it is better 99% of the time to save money on a gpu or something else.
The rule of thumb is : if u cant afford less than 4670, and want to keep your current gpu choice and not get a slower card, always go for AMD, the choice to go with AMD is not governed by a specific price range ($500-$600) like some would like u to believe but on other factors.
edit: After considering the current newegg stock, the cheapest i5 cpu that is not a pretty bad choice is the 4590 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116991 and that saves you $25, however it is always better to save those $25 with a Quizzical recommended combo.
And also as Quizzical mentioned Valens series does not have a good OEM, general rule of thumb for PSUs is to always be sure who the original manufacturer is, that will be over 75% of the decision which PSU to choose, rosewill capstone series has one of the best up and coming psu manufacturers in the world, and the specs are too good to be true which makes it an instant buy and the best 80 gold series performance/price on Newegg.
Which is why recommending Valens series over an EVGA B(much more well known, and respected OEM) series is a really bad choice, much worse than choosing H81 chipset as a matter of fact (H81 will not burn and destroy 2/3 of the components in your pc, a bad PSU however will).
Originally posted by 13lake A H81 chipset mobo is never a good choice except for a basic office-only like use of a computer, so that's a really bad choice. a 4460 over a 4690 is almost never a good choice, expect in select circumstances and it is better 99% of the time to save money on a gpu or something else.
Interesting, bold statements...pity you have nothing to back them up with.
What makes H81 and 4460 so much "never good choice" ? Where is your performance comparison with supposed AMD build?
Putting a i5 into a H81 is like putting a V-12 engine into into a broke-ass 1970s-1990s Ford Escort or some equivalent ancient small town car, it just doesnt work unless all u ever do is turn on the pc and browse the internet.
Obsessing over Intel and ignoring and hating AMD at every turn makes the validity of your price/performance suggestions non-objective and pretty bad.
Please be more objective with your suggestions, or stop assaulting and impeding Quizzical and everyone else who doesn't agree with you on every turn.
Now that we've got these silly shenanigans out of the way let's actually focus on proposing a sensible solution to the op,
Tweaking Quizzical's build a little bit there's basically 2 main options, and a 3rd which i prefer the most but is more expensive:
In the 3rd build u sacrifice none of the core components but it does go over $900, however, with a newegg combo it's very possible to come to the $900 sweetspot, or to ~$810 with a 280 GPU for the first suggestion or ~$810 with a good combo for the second suggestion.
Originally posted by 13lake A H81 chipset mobo is never a good choice except for a basic office-only like use of a computer, so that's a really bad choice.
a 4460 over a 4690 is almost never a good choice, expect in select circumstances and it is better 99% of the time to save money on a gpu or something else.
Interesting, bold statements...pity you have nothing to back them up with.
What makes H81 and 4460 so much "never good choice" ? Where is your performance comparison with supposed AMD build?
Really curious...
Click on the picture to see a larger version. My argument is pretty simple: don't buy a red dot. Either of the black dots are fine, though your budget may push you strongly toward one or the other. But don't buy a red dot.
In this case, for gaming use, the black dots are an FX-6300 and a Core i5-4690 with appropriate motherboards. The red dots are higher end FX-series processors and lower end Core i5 processors.
Go find ANY brand new sandy/ivy bridge CPU - you won't find any. Upgrading later and for full price as you suggested is not going to happen. It will be either second hand for the price of 100-150 USD or new platform.
So much fail in this thread. Instead of trying to get him a slightly better cpu that he wont even notice any difference when gaming why not use that extra cash and get a better GPU. That's going to be the #1 thing that gives him his performance.
Thank you for the replies and spirited debate, my computer at work seems to have trouble with the links, it just keeps putting me on a newegg page without items. I will have to look at everything, but I hate not having them get a i5-4690, as it is stuck in my head, right or wrong, the core i5 'value gaming' chip is the way to go.
I will take a look at everything, but they may have to do the 900-1k range to make sure they have something nice that will last them a while. Hate to have them save 50-100 dollars and have a greatly inferior build. It sounds like trying to hit the 800-900 range may be causing that, with the debating. I have to wait till I can look at the links to see what all the options are for AMD/Intel (I prefer the i5 chip that is the best gaming value, as it is what I have used in my last build, which seems to be the i5-4690 at this time).
I don't know what the deal is, but when I click on these links they just take me to a general Newegg page, without the product. Figured once I got home, it would change, but didn't.
Originally posted by 13lake Putting a i5 into a H81 is like putting a V-12 engine into into a broke-ass 1970s-1990s Ford Escort or some equivalent ancient small town car, it just doesnt work unless all u ever do is turn on the pc and browse the internet.
Ok..so you have absolutely NOTHING to support your stance. Yet, you do not hesitate to call me out.
Sure, if one goes with pricepicker instead of newegg, you can squeeze in better components, who would have thought so... Also, you and Quizz argued about 4690, not 4590 you used in your builds(because 4690 is not worthy, huh). I do agree that 4590 would be better choice over 4460 but newegg made the budget very tight.
They live near Atlanta, so I am going to find out if they live near one of the 2 microcenters, they have the i5-4690k for $199.99 there. They have a combo deal with a Asus Z97-AR motherboard for $310, but not sure how good that board is, seems like a older model, as most people do not carry it anymore, and can't find out much about it. Found a copy of Windows 8.1 64bit on Amazon for $92 (not confirmed, but think they will offer a free Windows 10 upgrade to probably the Windows 8 users).
Originally posted by Xthos Thank you for the replies and spirited debate, my computer at work seems to have trouble with the links, it just keeps putting me on a newegg page without items. I will have to look at everything, but I hate not having them get a i5-4690, as it is stuck in my head, right or wrong, the core i5 'value gaming' chip is the way to go. I will take a look at everything, but they may have to do the 900-1k range to make sure they have something nice that will last them a while. Hate to have them save 50-100 dollars and have a greatly inferior build. It sounds like trying to hit the 800-900 range may be causing that, with the debating. I have to wait till I can look at the links to see what all the options are for AMD/Intel (I prefer the i5 chip that is the best gaming value, as it is what I have used in my last build, which seems to be the i5-4690 at this time).Thanks again everyone.
Forget i5-4690, it is not worth the money. i5-4590 is a good deal for the price(especially the one on pricepicker posted above) over i5-4460 baseline but in the life cycle of that CPU, those few MGhz won't matter anyway.
Check out 13lake's links on pricepicker, they provide much better prices than newegg, which in turn allows for better build. The option 1) keeps you within the budget and it is a solid machine.
whatever you do, just make sure you get a gtx 970. they are only about $330 now and they are apparently MUCH better than anything of the previous series, save for maybe 780 Ti. AMD cards, i'm not sure. But all I know is the gtx 970 came out about 2 months after I got my gtx 770 4gb for $380 and I was pretty upset when I found out how much of a difference there was AND that was it was cheaper. CPUs... a lot of ppl recommend i5s because "most games don't support hyperthreading" but that's probably going to change with nextgen games, so if you could afford another $150 or so, i'd get an i7. now the question of whether or not to go with the brand new 5th gen i7's and ddr4 chipsets... i would probably wait on that unless price isn't a concern and you're bent on making sure you have the latest and greatest. oh, and don't forget.. any intel cpus ending with K means they're unlockable and can be overclocked easily (which I highly recommend!). Also, Coolermaster Hyper 212 EVO is a great cpu cooler.
Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim
Originally posted by Xthos They live near Atlanta, so I am going to find out if they live near one of the 2 microcenters, they have the i5-4690k for $199.99 there. They have a combo deal with a Asus Z97-AR motherboard for $310, but not sure how good that board is, seems like a older model, as most people do not carry it anymore, and can't find out much about it. Found a copy of Windows 8.1 64bit on Amazon for $92 (not confirmed, but think they will offer a free Windows 10 upgrade to probably the Windows 8 users).
The thing about those bundles is that very often they won't help you with your budget, you will have to shell out 300 USD for i5-4690k one way or another. With the budle, you might get better "deal" tho...
The bundle on Microcenter is 300 USD, which is the same price for i5-4690k and the MB included in build above from pricepicker.
And the links do not work due MMORPG.COM skimmlinks
A new motherboard usually means a new OS, unless you assume that he's going to pirate it or perhaps that he has a relatively rare full version rather than an OEM version from his previous system.
Nope.
99% of the Windows out there can be reactivated within 5 minutes through phone after a major hardware update.
Did it countless times on my desktop and laptops....automated system, annoying 50-ish numbers you have to p ut in but after that you're done till the next major update.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
99% of the Windows out there can be reactivated within 5 minutes through phone after a major hardware update.
Did it countless times on my desktop and laptops....automated system, annoying 50-ish numbers you have to p ut in but after that you're done till the next major update.
You are pointing out Quizzical being wrong?
Please be more objective with your suggestions, or stop assaulting and impeding Quizzical and everyone else who doesn't agree with you on every turn.
Yes I am saying he is wrong, dead wrong.
Him saying you can not reuse a legally purchased OS after a mobo replacement is plain dead wrong.
Done it countless times at home, at my office and my companyi's office so sorry if I burst your bubble.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Originally posted by Mukeyes I am saying he is wrong.Him saying you can not reuse a OS after a mobo is plain dead wrong.
I was pointing out to the comment above and what is so common sight on this site - apperently Quizzical is never wrong and any criticism or just disagreement is not allowed.
Him saying you can not reuse a OS after a mobo is plain dead wrong.
I was pointing out to the comment above and what is so common sight on this site - apperently Quizzical is never wrong and any criticism or just disagreement is not allowed.
No he isn't because he knows his stuff pretty well. When it comes to computer advice Quizzical > Gdemami (or any other random dude) any day.
I have put together atleast 3 machines with his help and he never strayed me wrong.
Originally posted by BigdaddyxI have put together atleast 3 machines with his help and he never strayed me wrong.
From the perspective of someone who needs help to build computers, you can't tell the difference so what is your point anyway... You could have bought a pre-built and would be equally happy.
A new motherboard usually means a new OS, unless you assume that he's going to pirate it or perhaps that he has a relatively rare full version rather than an OEM version from his previous system.
Nope.
99% of the Windows out there can be reactivated within 5 minutes through phone after a major hardware update.
Did it countless times on my desktop and laptops....automated system, annoying 50-ish numbers you have to p ut in but after that you're done till the next major update.
Its like a cat fight and the on looker is the one getting clawed. Rofl the poor fella wont be able to buy anything . Id say one of you fellas need to build it for him and then sell it to him. Simple as that.
But then again that doesnt happen in the real world.
Comments
Go find ANY brand new sandy/ivy bridge CPU - you won't find any. Upgrading later and for full price as you suggested is not going to happen. It will be either second hand for the price of 100-150 USD or new platform.
I did pointed all that out already. Yet again you like to repeat what others have said, even when it is rebutting your own previous points...
Recommending non K i5-4690 is plain silly and would be difficult to fit into a budget, so it is a moot point anyway.
i5-4460 is not the same price as i5-4690(k), so what is your point again? You trying to be even more pointless there?
3 points you made there, all moot...gratz.
A H81 chipset mobo is never a good choice except for a basic office-only like use of a computer, so that's a really bad choice.
a 4460 over a 4690 is almost never a good choice, expect in select circumstances and it is better 99% of the time to save money on a gpu or something else.
The rule of thumb is : if u cant afford less than 4670, and want to keep your current gpu choice and not get a slower card, always go for AMD, the choice to go with AMD is not governed by a specific price range ($500-$600) like some would like u to believe but on other factors.
edit: After considering the current newegg stock, the cheapest i5 cpu that is not a pretty bad choice is the 4590 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116991 and that saves you $25, however it is always better to save those $25 with a Quizzical recommended combo.
And also as Quizzical mentioned Valens series does not have a good OEM, general rule of thumb for PSUs is to always be sure who the original manufacturer is, that will be over 75% of the decision which PSU to choose, rosewill capstone series has one of the best up and coming psu manufacturers in the world, and the specs are too good to be true which makes it an instant buy and the best 80 gold series performance/price on Newegg.
Which is why recommending Valens series over an EVGA B(much more well known, and respected OEM) series is a really bad choice, much worse than choosing H81 chipset as a matter of fact (H81 will not burn and destroy 2/3 of the components in your pc, a bad PSU however will).
Interesting, bold statements...pity you have nothing to back them up with.
What makes H81 and 4460 so much "never good choice" ? Where is your performance comparison with supposed AMD build?
Really curious...
Putting a i5 into a H81 is like putting a V-12 engine into into a broke-ass 1970s-1990s Ford Escort or some equivalent ancient small town car, it just doesnt work unless all u ever do is turn on the pc and browse the internet.
Obsessing over Intel and ignoring and hating AMD at every turn makes the validity of your price/performance suggestions non-objective and pretty bad.
Please be more objective with your suggestions, or stop assaulting and impeding Quizzical and everyone else who doesn't agree with you on every turn.
Now that we've got these silly shenanigans out of the way let's actually focus on proposing a sensible solution to the op,
Tweaking Quizzical's build a little bit there's basically 2 main options, and a 3rd which i prefer the most but is more expensive:
1)Slightly tweaked Quizzical build with intel cpu(i5-4590+285) @$852 : http://pcpartpicker.com/user/Dogzilla/saved/27yypg
2)Slightly tweaked Quizzical amd build(fx-6350+290) @$838: http://pcpartpicker.com/user/Dogzilla/saved/cqWPxr
U either sacrifice the graphic card or the cpu, and the 3rd build is my recommended build :
3) i5-4590+290 @ $919 http://pcpartpicker.com/user/Dogzilla/saved/PVbdnQ
In the 3rd build u sacrifice none of the core components but it does go over $900, however, with a newegg combo it's very possible to come to the $900 sweetspot, or to ~$810 with a 280 GPU for the first suggestion or ~$810 with a good combo for the second suggestion.
Click on the picture to see a larger version. My argument is pretty simple: don't buy a red dot. Either of the black dots are fine, though your budget may push you strongly toward one or the other. But don't buy a red dot.
In this case, for gaming use, the black dots are an FX-6300 and a Core i5-4690 with appropriate motherboards. The red dots are higher end FX-series processors and lower end Core i5 processors.
Hmm...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115095&cm_re=Core_i7_2700-_-19-115-095-_-Product
New. Not second hand. Not discounted. Not in a new platform. In stock.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005X64OA8/?tag=extension-kb-20
Same CPU. 11 in stock at the time I viewed it, ships today.
Reputable retailers even, I didn't even have to go to some out-of-the-way spot and hope they just had leftover inventory.
I don't often read Gdemami's posts, but when I do, I usually giggle, or cringe, or both, at them.
Thank you for the replies and spirited debate, my computer at work seems to have trouble with the links, it just keeps putting me on a newegg page without items. I will have to look at everything, but I hate not having them get a i5-4690, as it is stuck in my head, right or wrong, the core i5 'value gaming' chip is the way to go.
I will take a look at everything, but they may have to do the 900-1k range to make sure they have something nice that will last them a while. Hate to have them save 50-100 dollars and have a greatly inferior build. It sounds like trying to hit the 800-900 range may be causing that, with the debating. I have to wait till I can look at the links to see what all the options are for AMD/Intel (I prefer the i5 chip that is the best gaming value, as it is what I have used in my last build, which seems to be the i5-4690 at this time).
Thanks again everyone.
Ok..so you have absolutely NOTHING to support your stance. Yet, you do not hesitate to call me out.
Sure, if one goes with pricepicker instead of newegg, you can squeeze in better components, who would have thought so... Also, you and Quizz argued about 4690, not 4590 you used in your builds(because 4690 is not worthy, huh). I do agree that 4590 would be better choice over 4460 but newegg made the budget very tight.
Forget i5-4690, it is not worth the money. i5-4590 is a good deal for the price(especially the one on pricepicker posted above) over i5-4460 baseline but in the life cycle of that CPU, those few MGhz won't matter anyway.
Check out 13lake's links on pricepicker, they provide much better prices than newegg, which in turn allows for better build. The option 1) keeps you within the budget and it is a solid machine.
Whole 1 i7 on newegg, the rest are low end Celerons and Pentium. You are trying too hard..
While Amazon provides better choice, my point still stands - you cannot rely on availability of older platform.
Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim
The thing about those bundles is that very often they won't help you with your budget, you will have to shell out 300 USD for i5-4690k one way or another. With the budle, you might get better "deal" tho...
The bundle on Microcenter is 300 USD, which is the same price for i5-4690k and the MB included in build above from pricepicker.
And the links do not work due MMORPG.COM skimmlinks
I see the prices as 874 USD, 868 USD and 949 USD. Did the prices change that much since?
Also, I see you save a lot of money on rebates rather than actual lower prices, that is not what all might be comfortable with.
Nope.
99% of the Windows out there can be reactivated within 5 minutes through phone after a major hardware update.
Did it countless times on my desktop and laptops....automated system, annoying 50-ish numbers you have to p ut in but after that you're done till the next major update.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Yes I am saying he is wrong, dead wrong.
Him saying you can not reuse a legally purchased OS after a mobo replacement is plain dead wrong.
Done it countless times at home, at my office and my companyi's office so sorry if I burst your bubble.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
I was pointing out to the comment above and what is so common sight on this site - apperently Quizzical is never wrong and any criticism or just disagreement is not allowed.
No he isn't because he knows his stuff pretty well. When it comes to computer advice Quizzical > Gdemami (or any other random dude) any day.
I have put together atleast 3 machines with his help and he never strayed me wrong.
From the perspective of someone who needs help to build computers, you can't tell the difference so what is your point anyway... You could have bought a pre-built and would be equally happy.
Thanks for proving the point tho.
You're basically telling him to pirate the OS.
meh, pointless debate...
Its like a cat fight and the on looker is the one getting clawed. Rofl the poor fella wont be able to buy anything . Id say one of you fellas need to build it for him and then sell it to him. Simple as that.
But then again that doesnt happen in the real world.
And you are telling him the same since using OEM licence for personal use is illegal too...