Yes, FFXIV does lack updates. How long since it's been launched and still the only worth feature in that game is PvE and single player activities? Yes, WOW did not have content for 14 months, but I wasn't subbed for those 14 months. When a new MMORPG launches I compare it with what I've already invested time and $ on as well if it will have any potential to invest $...
FFXIV, that people here praise it so much failed us hard. I remember vividly when it was launched way before realm reborn, I walked to future shop ready to buy the game, but then I changed my mind. It was a last second thing...and I'm so glad I did, cuz that game failed and then it took god knows how long before 2.0 realm reborn or w/e to come along.
FFXIV had a terrible launch and that costed it big time. FFXIV may have PvE/single player content, but does WOW, yet WOW raiding is far superior and it has competitive PvP. Not to mention the fluid, fast paced combat. Reality is FFIX is another raiding themepark and failed short to be significantly better than what it tried to copy. Then the numbers spoke for itself....
It was almost most evident how 44% of this community choose to get WOW:WoD on launch with 16% undecided. If anything is crystal clear is FFXIV had it's moment and it's evident by now it won't be that next MMORPG.
The Secret World, despite how some praise it here, 200,000 copies sold or something like that says everything. That plus buy to play model and how Funcom failed with Age of Conan as well as all the layoffs...I don't see much bright future for that game.
WoW's ridiculous sub numbers are a result of it's perfect storm timing, marketing and design back when it first came out. Nothing like it will ever exist again, because the situation that allowed for it can't happen again. To be blunt, it's bashing a newly formed developing country, for not achieving the same economy and market share as America or Great Britain. No one does that, because it would be dumb.
FFXIV doesn't have updates = a straight lie. Full stop. You don't even play the game, so I don't know where you get off dismissing the updates it already has and continues to develop as nothing 'worthy.' Worth to who? You who doesn't even research the games they talk about on a public forum where everyone can see that...you don't know what you're talking about?
Pass.
That, plus calling TSW a WoW clone really doesn't help in presenting your opinion as anything worth listening to.
The sky is not green.
The dog is not a cat.
You have no idea what you want, and even less of the games you are bashing. What does 'epic game' even mean?
Wow was successful because then, like now, were are in a MMO famine period and gamers were starved for a good MMO. Additionally it was soon determined that unlike previous MMOs, WoW appealed to the casual players and it exploded from there.
However, what the developers of new games can not seem to figure out is people who want to play WoW, play WoW therefore, they need to be different from WoW. This led to all these new MMOs failing and the industry becoming very gun shy about taking a risk on MMO development.
Also developers post-WoW have gotten very greedy and have forgotten you don't have to have 10 million players to be successful. Even SWTOR which had a massive budget, acknowledged in a shareholders meeting that SWTOR would be profitable with only 500k subscribers and games like EVE Online have managed to not just get by but thrive on about about 250k-350k subscribers. Old School EQ, one of the main games that launched the genre was even considered massively successful with only about 200k subscribers. Point is, game developers need to start focusing on GOOD, NICHE game that are going to appeal to 500k dedicated subscribers, just like they used to do before WoW came out, instead of trying hit it out of the ball park. They do that and we will have a much healthier MMO market, with less risk to the developer and eventually, just like Blizzard, one will hit is big....but only it is REALLY new and innovative. The WoW train has left the station and developers need to quite trying to jump on board. Instead we need a new train.
I noticed the OP mentioned ESO but didn't say anything more. I'll vouch for that one because I too enjoy WoW but have quit recently due to the same old bait and switch WoW likes to do at endgame. Currently playing ESO, which is most assuredly nothing like WoW, and have a BLAST. So much content, I'm never short of anything to do and plenty coming in the next patch, they also implement more changes more often than WoW and it's evident to anyone who has played since launch the game has some passionate devs who are working hard to make their game game great.
So, anyway. OP seems to be just another typical WoW player who can't seem to let go for whatever reason. No offense meant, as I have plenty of RL friends who play WoW but won't step foot in other PC games or MMOs or do and they just go right back to WoW even when WoW gives them a glut of a year with no content updates, yet they happily throw their money at them(something I have to really wonder about). Almost, like they aren't aware that you can stop paying for one game and just pay for another or go F2P with many current games and then come back later to WoW and resub. Rinse/repeat.
"ESO, another themepark MMO with some zergfest open world PvP, that doesn't really have any meaning to do it, not to mention the terrible graphics, animations and tons of bugs that come with any new MMORPG."
OP, I know you and respect you, but in your heart, you know that line was pure bait...
edit- the zergfest no meaning is pretty off too imo. That is opinion though.
edit- Bugs? that went out back in August 2014 man. anyways you got me, I bit.
On popular MMO's that I never spent a dime that came out. In fact I have not spend $ on a new MMO now for 4 years and 2 days (Jan 11th, 2011 was my last DCUO, thx to $35 promo for box + 30 days free and end up spending $120-150 on it through years)
Fortunately not all are like you otherwise nobody would bother spending a lot of money to create this great games. Even when playing games with mixed model I will always sub if I like game, even if free version is satisfactory. If I do not like, will not play at all. Simple as that.
There are tons of ideas out there for MMORPG's that can go along WOW or any other MMORPG out there and prosper, but if you don't deliver quality, you won't get anything, at least not from me...
Given your level of expectation, you're probably confused between "invention" and "innovation". Some of these games you mentioned are "innovative" (TSW for sure, GW2 as well albeit less...).
If you're trying to find new "inventions" in the MMO genre (a completely amazing and new experience), then I think it's simply that you need to switch from MMORPGs to other types of MMOs... for example to MMOFPS (Planetside 2) is a totally different feeling. I had a nice surprise playing this title personally, and it was refreshing from RPGs.
That said, I agree that the delivery on MANY of the titles you mentioned was completely subpar to WoW's production quality. GW2 at launch had higher production quality than WoW was at launch (Wildstar as well, possibly), but TSW, ESO, TOR were poorly produced and felt clunky at launch - which didn't help retaining people.
So it's a mix between finding the right ideas (innovation) AND executing them properly for the mass market, which IMO only WoW and GW2 have done properly at launch so far.
to the OP i suggest to better look for the info for BDO, he will get disappointed ...
but i dunno why he focus on the themeparks and dont try to play games like EVE or Darkfall ... if half of all you who search for a decent sandbox, subscribed and played Darkfall, the game would have more money to continue the development and become even better.
is like someone demanding a small car to react like an off road. Some people shall realize that they represent a small part of the market.
p.s. btw half of the game he mention in the title are ok titles, i dunno what for the OP demands more ...
I'll continue to enjoy and support those that delivered for me, those who take games seriously like Blizzard have with WOW
So you disregard the game with #1 volume and quality of content in the current MMOsphere (FFXIV) while praising the game that spits on its customers by not releasing any meaningful new content for a full year at a time, even though they have ten times the revenue base than FFXIV.
In essence, you seem to hate value and proper dev support.
That's the funny part almost all of the games he mentioned get far more regular content updates than WOW. His threads always look to me as him fabricating reasons why he simply can't leave WOW. My guess is he doesn't want to leave the power behind and be a noob again.
If you all actually read again I said "UPDATES", don't twist it now to "content updates". New content and updates are two complete different things. In updates belong bug fixes, additional features, polishing combat as well as patches. Yes, FFXIV might be pumping content, but that content is again nothing significant. The reality is both WOW and FFXIV can offer enough for the player to single play them through or raid casually with his friends.
PvP on the other hand FFXIV is not even close to WOW arena ranking system and fluid, fast based combat. FFXIV also had a terrible launch if not one of the worst. It was so bad that they had to give out free time to its playerbase for a year+ then redo it and relaunch it.
The fact remains, FFXIV copied WOW's raiding/themepark as most of the MMORPGs listed in this thread. If they don't have raids, they have dungeons or are based around stories that single player games have been doing for decades.
I'll continue to enjoy and support those that delivered for me, those who take games seriously like Blizzard have with WOW
So you disregard the game with #1 volume and quality of content in the current MMOsphere (FFXIV) while praising the game that spits on its customers by not releasing any meaningful new content for a full year at a time, even though they have ten times the revenue base than FFXIV.
In essence, you seem to hate value and proper dev support.
That's the funny part almost all of the games he mentioned get far more regular content updates than WOW. His threads always look to me as him fabricating reasons why he simply can't leave WOW. My guess is he doesn't want to leave the power behind and be a noob again.
If you all actually read again I said "UPDATES", don't twist it now to "content updates". New content and updates are two complete different things. In updates belong bug fixes, additional features, polishing combat as well as patches. Yes, FFXIV might be pumping content, but that content is again nothing significant. The reality is both WOW and FFXIV can offer enough for the player to single play them through or raid casually with his friends.
PvP on the other hand FFXIV is not even close to WOW arena ranking system and fluid, fast based combat. FFXIV also had a terrible launch if not one of the worst. It was so bad that they had to give out free time to its playerbase for a year+ then redo it and relaunch it.
The fact remains, FFXIV copied WOW's raiding/themepark as most of the MMORPGs listed in this thread. If they don't have raids, they have dungeons or are based around stories that single player games have been doing for decades.
So you went for semantics to prove your point. Great. We're all glad to have an authority telling us from his ivory tower the true definition of the word "update". If only this attempt did not remind me of the Hindenburg..
I bet WoW needs lots of these (the one and only definition of) updates but sadly for you FFXIV doesn't have the constant need to fix bugs and polish combat. The features come out 99% bug free and the combat and class balance is better than WoW could have ever hoped for. Surely, sometimes the feature design doesn't work as well as hoped but it is never something that isn't improved within a week or two. Updates come on a need-basis, not every X period "because WoW does it too". It's as simple as that.
What's incredibly funny is how you want FFXIV to update like WoW even though they're completely different games with different needs to even update such things in the first place. It's the most pointless change I've ever heard anyone wish for (and goes back to you being unable to move on from WoW which we all can see). Then you turn around and criticize FFXIV for copying WoW's raiding. WoW copied raiding from its predecessors, while changing some things. Hey, that's just like FFXIV!
Stop acting like anything you say holds any truth outside of your imagination. You can choose to be this way but there's no need to pollute the environment around you with it.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I'm always having fun and playing something and right now it's sadly WOW. This thread although is the very best example why so many MMORPG's have come and failed to open my wallet. For good or bad reality is it's all about awareness. Find one product there that's most reliable for you that you think have done more than anything else and continue supporting it until something else comes along the way that you think will push this genre forward into the direction you want to envision it.
All these MMORPG's that been coming after WOW might appear to be "successful" but they are far from great. Naturally, you'll be seeing companies delivering mediocrity or short lasting products if they are cheap, fast to be made and generate profit. Sadly, we are living in reality if not all come to deliver games for $ rather than actually playing em for themselves. So, it's like PvP between producers and consumers.
Producers want your $, consumers want enjoyable product for their $ and whoever is more resilient will prevail. If we want to see MMORPG's that are on a whole new level compared to what we have today, we have to create awareness and be patient. At the end if I see my life go by knowing that we had the technology and tools to truly create amazing things, but they never were created because of greed, ignorance and so forth...it will be sad, but I won't have any regrets. If others are pleased and can enjoy playing mediocre, garbage games and consider them fun like I did when I was in my early childhood then props to them.
Happiness does not depend on knowledge but knowledge sure helps me at least experience something more than I had before out of what I got left from this life. It was natural for me once I experienced some of the best things out of this genre over the last 14 years to not settle for less unless that less is truly the best option available in the entire gaming industry.
I want to see companies to think big and deliver big. I want to see risks taken and creativity. I want to see quality and seriousness when they made these projects. The irony here is how the MMORPG's that have come over the last couple years minus the graphics are on subpar level than many MMORPG's that have come in the past. Then of course the market won't be there. Of course there will be thousands rather than millions playing them. Of course forums like these will generate just fraction of the traffic some other sites do out there.
If anything I'm sure that if a lot of gamers out there had constraint and high standard on what they are playing a lot of companies out there would have to either stop existing and move on to different fields or push the standards to a whole new level that we deserve to have for our $ today.
Another post about WoW being the only game you'll ever play? Hmm.
Edit: No offense of course, but I really do think you should broaden your horizons a bit. You say you haven't spent money on those MMOs, so how do you know if you'd even like them or not, as most of those you listed are either B2P or sub. I mean I know WoW has a lot of players and a lot of content, but you seem to be blaming other MMOs for being WoW clones and you are a WoW player. It's kind of an oxymoron don't you think? If all those MMOs you mentioned are just WoW clones, then you'd feel right at home. The problem is they aren't.
Most MMOs nowdays are trying to be different. In the case of some of those games, ESO for example, you can't say is anything like WoW (though it is more MMO than TES). ArcheAge is an open world sandbox, nothing like WoW. Guild Wars 2 is also nothing like WoW.
FFXIV is more like WoW, the producer even admitted it, and said it was a successful formula, so why not use it? It has hard raids, which imo is important for any MMO. Maybe what you're looking for is actually a WoW clone that is better than WoW. Well, let me say this... I've seen WoW's new raids on twitch, and I wasn't impressed. The fights look very easy, and I couldn't understand why people were dying to mechanics my grandmother's dog could avoid.
So my suggestion is to maybe try to look for something that is more like WoW that has challenging content.
Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim
Comments
If you don't like what's available now either make your own game or switch genres.
WoW's ridiculous sub numbers are a result of it's perfect storm timing, marketing and design back when it first came out. Nothing like it will ever exist again, because the situation that allowed for it can't happen again. To be blunt, it's bashing a newly formed developing country, for not achieving the same economy and market share as America or Great Britain. No one does that, because it would be dumb.
FFXIV doesn't have updates = a straight lie. Full stop. You don't even play the game, so I don't know where you get off dismissing the updates it already has and continues to develop as nothing 'worthy.' Worth to who? You who doesn't even research the games they talk about on a public forum where everyone can see that...you don't know what you're talking about?
Pass.
That, plus calling TSW a WoW clone really doesn't help in presenting your opinion as anything worth listening to.
The sky is not green.
The dog is not a cat.
You have no idea what you want, and even less of the games you are bashing. What does 'epic game' even mean?
Wow was successful because then, like now, were are in a MMO famine period and gamers were starved for a good MMO. Additionally it was soon determined that unlike previous MMOs, WoW appealed to the casual players and it exploded from there.
However, what the developers of new games can not seem to figure out is people who want to play WoW, play WoW therefore, they need to be different from WoW. This led to all these new MMOs failing and the industry becoming very gun shy about taking a risk on MMO development.
Also developers post-WoW have gotten very greedy and have forgotten you don't have to have 10 million players to be successful. Even SWTOR which had a massive budget, acknowledged in a shareholders meeting that SWTOR would be profitable with only 500k subscribers and games like EVE Online have managed to not just get by but thrive on about about 250k-350k subscribers. Old School EQ, one of the main games that launched the genre was even considered massively successful with only about 200k subscribers. Point is, game developers need to start focusing on GOOD, NICHE game that are going to appeal to 500k dedicated subscribers, just like they used to do before WoW came out, instead of trying hit it out of the ball park. They do that and we will have a much healthier MMO market, with less risk to the developer and eventually, just like Blizzard, one will hit is big....but only it is REALLY new and innovative. The WoW train has left the station and developers need to quite trying to jump on board. Instead we need a new train.
I noticed the OP mentioned ESO but didn't say anything more. I'll vouch for that one because I too enjoy WoW but have quit recently due to the same old bait and switch WoW likes to do at endgame. Currently playing ESO, which is most assuredly nothing like WoW, and have a BLAST. So much content, I'm never short of anything to do and plenty coming in the next patch, they also implement more changes more often than WoW and it's evident to anyone who has played since launch the game has some passionate devs who are working hard to make their game game great.
So, anyway. OP seems to be just another typical WoW player who can't seem to let go for whatever reason. No offense meant, as I have plenty of RL friends who play WoW but won't step foot in other PC games or MMOs or do and they just go right back to WoW even when WoW gives them a glut of a year with no content updates, yet they happily throw their money at them(something I have to really wonder about). Almost, like they aren't aware that you can stop paying for one game and just pay for another or go F2P with many current games and then come back later to WoW and resub. Rinse/repeat.
I don't really get why people assume every game is a failure if it doesn't hold their attention for a decade.
Calling GW2, FFXIV, ESO, SWTOR failures even though they still have plenty of players and get frequent updates makes little sense.
I will agree that Wildstar and AA imploded extremely quickly but its still dumb to say revolutionary or failure are the only ways to rate a game.
"ESO, another themepark MMO with some zergfest open world PvP, that doesn't really have any meaning to do it, not to mention the terrible graphics, animations and tons of bugs that come with any new MMORPG."
OP, I know you and respect you, but in your heart, you know that line was pure
bait...
edit- the zergfest no meaning is pretty off too imo. That is opinion though.
edit- Bugs? that went out back in August 2014 man. anyways you got me, I bit.
Fortunately not all are like you otherwise nobody would bother spending a lot of money to create this great games. Even when playing games with mixed model I will always sub if I like game, even if free version is satisfactory. If I do not like, will not play at all. Simple as that.
Given your level of expectation, you're probably confused between "invention" and "innovation". Some of these games you mentioned are "innovative" (TSW for sure, GW2 as well albeit less...).
If you're trying to find new "inventions" in the MMO genre (a completely amazing and new experience), then I think it's simply that you need to switch from MMORPGs to other types of MMOs... for example to MMOFPS (Planetside 2) is a totally different feeling. I had a nice surprise playing this title personally, and it was refreshing from RPGs.
That said, I agree that the delivery on MANY of the titles you mentioned was completely subpar to WoW's production quality. GW2 at launch had higher production quality than WoW was at launch (Wildstar as well, possibly), but TSW, ESO, TOR were poorly produced and felt clunky at launch - which didn't help retaining people.
So it's a mix between finding the right ideas (innovation) AND executing them properly for the mass market, which IMO only WoW and GW2 have done properly at launch so far.
Do you often think pear and apple are the same fruit?
to the OP i suggest to better look for the info for BDO, he will get disappointed ...
but i dunno why he focus on the themeparks and dont try to play games like EVE or Darkfall ... if half of all you who search for a decent sandbox, subscribed and played Darkfall, the game would have more money to continue the development and become even better.
is like someone demanding a small car to react like an off road. Some people shall realize that they represent a small part of the market.
p.s. btw half of the game he mention in the title are ok titles, i dunno what for the OP demands more ...
He hasn't spent any money on them, but thinks he knows how every game plays and all of what it's content offers.
Did love DCUO though. Never paid for it since I was part of the friends/family beta.
They are both fruit ... if you eat one after dinner, you probably won't eat the other. So people do make choices between the two.
Just like if I spend 2 hours watching a movie, it is 2 hours I am not playing a video game.
So pear is a clone of apple and video game is a clone of movie?
Or are you simply talking of a completely different topic altogether?
Nah .. there is no such thing as a clone ....
If you all actually read again I said "UPDATES", don't twist it now to "content updates". New content and updates are two complete different things. In updates belong bug fixes, additional features, polishing combat as well as patches. Yes, FFXIV might be pumping content, but that content is again nothing significant. The reality is both WOW and FFXIV can offer enough for the player to single play them through or raid casually with his friends.
PvP on the other hand FFXIV is not even close to WOW arena ranking system and fluid, fast based combat. FFXIV also had a terrible launch if not one of the worst. It was so bad that they had to give out free time to its playerbase for a year+ then redo it and relaunch it.
The fact remains, FFXIV copied WOW's raiding/themepark as most of the MMORPGs listed in this thread. If they don't have raids, they have dungeons or are based around stories that single player games have been doing for decades.
So you went for semantics to prove your point. Great. We're all glad to have an authority telling us from his ivory tower the true definition of the word "update". If only this attempt did not remind me of the Hindenburg..
I bet WoW needs lots of these (the one and only definition of) updates but sadly for you FFXIV doesn't have the constant need to fix bugs and polish combat. The features come out 99% bug free and the combat and class balance is better than WoW could have ever hoped for. Surely, sometimes the feature design doesn't work as well as hoped but it is never something that isn't improved within a week or two. Updates come on a need-basis, not every X period "because WoW does it too". It's as simple as that.
What's incredibly funny is how you want FFXIV to update like WoW even though they're completely different games with different needs to even update such things in the first place. It's the most pointless change I've ever heard anyone wish for (and goes back to you being unable to move on from WoW which we all can see). Then you turn around and criticize FFXIV for copying WoW's raiding. WoW copied raiding from its predecessors, while changing some things. Hey, that's just like FFXIV!
Stop acting like anything you say holds any truth outside of your imagination. You can choose to be this way but there's no need to pollute the environment around you with it.
Now we know your cognitive capacity.
I'm always having fun and playing something and right now it's sadly WOW. This thread although is the very best example why so many MMORPG's have come and failed to open my wallet. For good or bad reality is it's all about awareness. Find one product there that's most reliable for you that you think have done more than anything else and continue supporting it until something else comes along the way that you think will push this genre forward into the direction you want to envision it.
All these MMORPG's that been coming after WOW might appear to be "successful" but they are far from great. Naturally, you'll be seeing companies delivering mediocrity or short lasting products if they are cheap, fast to be made and generate profit. Sadly, we are living in reality if not all come to deliver games for $ rather than actually playing em for themselves. So, it's like PvP between producers and consumers.
Producers want your $, consumers want enjoyable product for their $ and whoever is more resilient will prevail. If we want to see MMORPG's that are on a whole new level compared to what we have today, we have to create awareness and be patient. At the end if I see my life go by knowing that we had the technology and tools to truly create amazing things, but they never were created because of greed, ignorance and so forth...it will be sad, but I won't have any regrets. If others are pleased and can enjoy playing mediocre, garbage games and consider them fun like I did when I was in my early childhood then props to them.
Happiness does not depend on knowledge but knowledge sure helps me at least experience something more than I had before out of what I got left from this life. It was natural for me once I experienced some of the best things out of this genre over the last 14 years to not settle for less unless that less is truly the best option available in the entire gaming industry.
I want to see companies to think big and deliver big. I want to see risks taken and creativity. I want to see quality and seriousness when they made these projects. The irony here is how the MMORPG's that have come over the last couple years minus the graphics are on subpar level than many MMORPG's that have come in the past. Then of course the market won't be there. Of course there will be thousands rather than millions playing them. Of course forums like these will generate just fraction of the traffic some other sites do out there.
If anything I'm sure that if a lot of gamers out there had constraint and high standard on what they are playing a lot of companies out there would have to either stop existing and move on to different fields or push the standards to a whole new level that we deserve to have for our $ today.
Another post about WoW being the only game you'll ever play? Hmm.
Edit: No offense of course, but I really do think you should broaden your horizons a bit. You say you haven't spent money on those MMOs, so how do you know if you'd even like them or not, as most of those you listed are either B2P or sub. I mean I know WoW has a lot of players and a lot of content, but you seem to be blaming other MMOs for being WoW clones and you are a WoW player. It's kind of an oxymoron don't you think? If all those MMOs you mentioned are just WoW clones, then you'd feel right at home. The problem is they aren't.
Most MMOs nowdays are trying to be different. In the case of some of those games, ESO for example, you can't say is anything like WoW (though it is more MMO than TES). ArcheAge is an open world sandbox, nothing like WoW. Guild Wars 2 is also nothing like WoW.
FFXIV is more like WoW, the producer even admitted it, and said it was a successful formula, so why not use it? It has hard raids, which imo is important for any MMO. Maybe what you're looking for is actually a WoW clone that is better than WoW. Well, let me say this... I've seen WoW's new raids on twitch, and I wasn't impressed. The fights look very easy, and I couldn't understand why people were dying to mechanics my grandmother's dog could avoid.
So my suggestion is to maybe try to look for something that is more like WoW that has challenging content.
Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim