DCUO - Still one of the best in the lot.

Awakened

I'm talking like top 5, easy. I quite playing about a year and a half ago and have tried all the newer games since then. Marvel's competition (Marvel Heroes) did steal my time for a while, but as an ARPG it suffers from being really fun without enough immersion for long term play.

I've been playing online games since Ultima Online in 97' and have tried at least 50 titles in that span. Since leaving DCUO I have tried Elder Scrolls Online (Just... stay... away...), Final Fantasy, Star Trek, Neverwinter (another "fun" game that just suffers from lack of immersion), Rift (probably my top vote for those seeking a conventional Fantasy based MMORPG right now), Age of Connan, GW 2 (same problem as MH and Neverwinter), The Secret World, a few other B-titles made by indie guys, Darkfall (Well, gave it a second chance, it's not getting a third), Archeage (This game was made by the same people that made Rift? wtf?), age of Wushu, some MOBAs like Smite and Infinity Crises (burned out on LoL a while ago), and some other games like World of Tanks and such.

DCUO is still one of the best games out there.

The issues I see over and over again with most other games are as follows:

Horrible monetization system - DCUO's hybrid model is damn near perfect; how every game should model itself. The poor and rich can both get plenty of game for their money and nether ever has a huge advantage over the other from RL funds. You basically pay for variety and "cool" factor. The optional subscription system (what I used) makes micro-transactions a rare act and usually something just for the "cool" factor I mentioned earlier - entirely optional.

Shameless progression - DCUO's "quests" are some of the best in the business, go play Elder Scrolls and drudge through 50 hours of fetching lost pets and turning on light posts if you don't believe me.

Stale combat - DCUO's combat system, while perhaps more "natural" with a controller, is more fun and fluid than almost any other MMORPG on the market right now. I also use a gaming keypad and suped up mouse, so I have no issue with it.

Dumb PvP - I got into MMORPGs for the PvP, that's what got me hooked. I am sad to say that PvP in MMORPGs is near dead; we'll say it's on life support. This is why MOBA's are doing so great - all the PvPers are moving to them. DCUO's open world PvP is about dead as well, but the instanced PvP is far more fun than most of the competitions' right now. The ability to play as iconic heroes and villains doesn't hurt its cause.

End Game - DCUO has a great end game. The game doesn't really even start until you max your character's level. The leveling process itself never feels like a grind. I think I was up to 8 or so characters and enjoyed the leveling process on all of them. It helps that you can change your origin to mix up the experience.

Punchy - In today's games, regardless of genre, the gameplay has to have impact. With physics making its way into games more and visual effects always getting better, people expect some pop in their punch. DCUO does this as well as anyone else currently, and better than many of the brand new games.

Anti-Social - Wow guys, it is 2015 with social media linked into almost everything we do with our daily lives. We have more ways to communication than Orson Welles ever dreamed of. Yet, for some reason, MMORPGs are regressing and becoming less and less social.  DCUO's grouping system is the best I've seen for quickly finding other players to get together with. In literally every other game I've played it is a chore just to find people to group and play with. And it's not just grouping with people, DCUO is a social game. When I played I spent a great deal of time just sitting around chatting with people. Most games I've played are so littered with Chinese gold sellers that most people don't even bother trying to chit-cat, or we're in a dungeon or something and everyone just plows through it as fast as they can without speaking one word.

The aesthetics are awesome - Wtf is up with the Fantasy genre right now? Everything has to be dark and brooding. Why? Fantasy is about light, birth, and revival as much as it is darkness, death, and decay. I feel like a kid saying this, but I like the shiny and bright things in DCUO.

After a year and half break of trying to find something else, I think I'm coming back. There just isn't much else out there worth my time (or money, I've spent about $400 on other games since then, and don't feel like I got my money's worth. Marvel Heroes has a semi-reasonable monetization structure, I don't mind subscriptions, but the ones I tried were not sub worthy). It's also worth noting that while SOE may have some mistakes on their resume, DCUO is not one of them. It is a well polished game in almost every aspect

I know this sounds like a love letter. You probably think I'm a DC fanboy. I actually don't care for DC (I'm a Marvel guy), but coming from someone who deliberately tried to find something better over the last 18 months, take it from me, this is one of the best games out there for gameplay, community, replay value, company support (regular updates and communications) character and story progression, and value.

 

moonbound

I disagree other then the f2p model actually being decent, while the story is kind of immersive the missions are pretty much all the same by clicking on things compared to other games where questing can be more unique like the secret world it doesnt hold a candle to that.

 

The combat is very repetitive and there is nothing unique about the weapons as you are forced to mix using combos for max dps. The rpg elements are shallow as you are already limited to 6 skill slots you barely get much of a choice in powers, there is hardly anything to level, if it was classless then it would be much better.

 

You can max level in like a week, and that is just silly for an mmo, rpgs are about leveling to, its way more repeitive to only do endgame and grind for gear.

 

I personally hate the art style but the power visuals are very much lacking and look very weak compared to many super hero games, and lets not forget your playing an apprentice you arent playing a hero your just playing a bunch of clones.

 

The only real cool thing about dcuo is the pvp and playing the icon characrers thats it really.

maskedweasel

Nah DCUO still has the best combat system of any MMO out there to date.  It almost requires the use of a controller, but who cares.  No other MMO has combat as visceral and exciting.  You have to watch your opponents and determine which combos to use on top of your other skills.

 

Last I played the game fell flat at end game.  All the alerts were okay and the raids were gear gated, and it was tough enough finding teams that could complete the ones I had gear for.

 

Playing the iconic characters was fun, though it was always full of the new character of the month that wasn't balanced properly.  There was robins staff twirl, and Banes ...well everything, then catwomans reflect and whip, then bizarros aoe punch etc. etc.

 

The world and the movement and the stories its all great.  A really great game.. and its very close to being the game for me, but it stops short with end game options and gear gating.  At least in GW2 I can play anything I want anytime.

 

And who cares if you level to max in a week?  I level all my GW2 characters to max in a day?  Thats 80 levels.

moonbound

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Nah DCUO still has the best combat system of any MMO out there to date.  It almost requires the use of a controller, but who cares.  No other MMO has combat as visceral and exciting.  You have to watch your opponents and determine which combos to use on top of your other skills.

 

Last I played the game fell flat at end game.  All the alerts were okay and the raids were gear gated, and it was tough enough finding teams that could complete the ones I had gear for.

 

Playing the iconic characters was fun, though it was always full of the new character of the month that wasn't balanced properly.  There was robins staff twirl, and Banes ...well everything, then catwomans reflect and whip, then bizarros aoe punch etc. etc.

 

The world and the movement and the stories its all great.  A really great game.. and its very close to being the game for me, but it stops short with end game options and gear gating.  At least in GW2 I can play anything I want anytime.

 

And who cares if you level to max in a week?  I level all my GW2 characters to max in a day?  Thats 80 levels.

The combat being best is subjective eso has great combat if not better just as well, then there is tera and other mmorpgs. I care and many people who actually enjoy rpgs care about getting to max level in a week, its an mmorpg its suppose to last not cause me to get bored within a month.

tawess

Well when the lot only contains a burntout wreck, a soviet era Lada and a Quad.... Even a old Mazda will look good... 

 

Or did you imply that it is top of the line in the MMO genre... It ain´t that good. Not by a longshot. 

RedAlert539

I played DCUO a while after launch and till it's convertion to F2P. It's a fun game but becomes repetitve after a while. As a longtime DC fan i wouldn't recommend it to other DC comics fans. As a comic-book MMORPG, especially one with the DC branch on it, the game should be about storytelling, world building and, in general, feeling like a superhero. Not about combat rating and endless feat grinding to earn skill points. I would recommend it though to hardcore progression gamers since the game, essentially, is all about that. Getting to lvl cap in a handful of days and then advancing tier after tier of raids and gear scores.

snoocky

No way hosee

Phry

If the game was any good, or it was somehow the best, then people would be playing it, they aren't so it clearly isn't. 

XAleX360

Perhaps if they changed the engine to UE4, then it would be more interesting for many players.

moonbound

Originally posted by RedAlert539
I played DCUO a while after launch and till it's convertion to F2P. It's a fun game but becomes repetitve after a while. As a longtime DC fan i wouldn't recommend it to other DC comics fans. As a comic-book MMORPG, especially one with the DC branch on it, the game should be about storytelling, world building and, in general, feeling like a superhero. Not about combat rating and endless feat grinding to earn skill points. I would recommend it though to hardcore progression gamers since the game, essentially, is all about that. Getting to lvl cap in a handful of days and then advancing tier after tier of raids and gear scores.

Exactly! Id much rather spend my time with marvel which is mostly free in the first place if I want to play clones at least the combat is awesome and the powers feel powerful and look amazing. Hek it has so many power sets so many heroes to play.

Nailzzz

 I recently gave DCO a try and it wasn't too bad. Unfortunately the mouse driven combat system eventually became too much for me. I prefer games that are more skill driven in game combat without turning into a fighting game where I have to remember button combo's. It takes away a bit from being able to react to your opponents if your too busy trying to get your combo off. Otherwise I didn't think it was half bad. Not quite CoH, but not bad either. It was actually better than I expected.

Jyiiga

I will admit that you make a lot of valid points. The foundation of the game is very solid, but ultimately it takes to much from the console side of things.

It lacks the "RP" of "MMORPG". It has a lack luster social interface. No way to fill out any information about your character. Now add in the fact that its cross platform and most of the players are on PS3/4 and those folks never speak (and can't really type either). This leads to a very dreary existence for the characters I made. Just something else to grind levels and grind gear in. I sometimes wonder just how many recall greater and more feature rich titles of the past. 

I looked around for two days for RP forums and groups. I found next to nothing. 

This game has a fair sized population and games with much smaller communities have much more active social groups. 

This is a nice solid beat them up game, but I could never justify spending money on it. 

holdenhamlet

I enjoyed it a lot.  Unfortunately I found the PVP very lacking.  Seemed pretty inbalanced and all over the place.  Playing as iconic characters is fun and all, but that wears thin unless the gameplay is solid.

I don't disagree with the rest of your assessment.  I felt it was a really solid game, and definitely deserves a shot if people haven't tried it, especially if you like action combat.

IsilithTehroth

It was pretty fun at launch, but exploits and lack of meaningful pvp and stuff to do ruined it. It could have been alot better. I am giving it another go to see what changed since launch.

waynejr2

Phry said:

If the game was any good, or it was somehow the best, then people would be playing it, they aren't so it clearly isn't. 

That is the difference between being the best and being the best fit for the marketplace.  Also, people do change games.  Do you eat the same meal all the time?  No, people need some variety.

maskedweasel

moonbound said:

Originally posted by maskedweasel
Nah DCUO still has the best combat system of any MMO out there to date.  It almost requires the use of a controller, but who cares.  No other MMO has combat as visceral and exciting.  You have to watch your opponents and determine which combos to use on top of your other skills.   Last I played the game fell flat at end game.  All the alerts were okay and the raids were gear gated, and it was tough enough finding teams that could complete the ones I had gear for.   Playing the iconic characters was fun, though it was always full of the new character of the month that wasn't balanced properly.  There was robins staff twirl, and Banes ...well everything, then catwomans reflect and whip, then bizarros aoe punch etc. etc.   The world and the movement and the stories its all great.  A really great game.. and its very close to being the game for me, but it stops short with end game options and gear gating.  At least in GW2 I can play anything I want anytime.   And who cares if you level to max in a week?  I level all my GW2 characters to max in a day?  Thats 80 levels.

The combat being best is subjective eso has great combat if not better just as well, then there is tera and other mmorpgs. I care and many people who actually enjoy rpgs care about getting to max level in a week, its an mmorpg its suppose to last not cause me to get bored within a month.

Everything is subjective,  but the fact of the matter is, DCUO has combat like DCUO only,  all these other games you've mentioned are similarly rehashed systems with different skills.  If nothing else DCUO melded combat only seen in Single Player games and brought it to the MMO space.   It wasn't perfect by any means, but to me it was the most fun and rewarding because it took skill, actual skill.  Not aimbots,  not macroing, not rotations,  every ability had a counter, every class could beat any other class if your combat prowess was high enough.

In the beginning I was able to fight opponents over a dozen levels higher than me just because I had a strong grasp of the combat.  It was that good.

Also GW2 is one of the more popular games on the market and you can autolevel a character to 80 when you buy the new expansion taking... what.. less than a minute?  Level restrictions have their place in old grind-it-out games,  but I like the ability to do what I want when I want to do it.

Limnic

Actually, Seal Online, Latale, Divine Souls, Dungeon Fighter, Grand Chase, Dragon Nest, even Blade&Soul all have similar basic combat mechanics (be it skinned in a very different way at times). It's pretty similar to the one's mentioned for it's rather button-mashy combo system and simple skill trees.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. Simple fundamentals to the combat means that it's easy enough to grasp and you can keep combat from hitching too often on random details. However, it's not really a game to speak of in terms of actual variety to it's core features and mechanics in play. This is sort of the same way in which Secret World's combat system is often overhyped in it's description.

maskedweasel

Limnic said:

Actually, Seal Online, Latale, Divine Souls, Dungeon Fighter, Grand Chase, Dragon Nest, even Blade&Soul all have similar basic combat mechanics (be it skinned in a very different way at times). It's pretty similar to the one's mentioned for it's rather button-mashy combo system and simple skill trees.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. Simple fundamentals to the combat means that it's easy enough to grasp and you can keep combat from hitching too often on random details. However, it's not really a game to speak of in terms of actual variety to it's core features and mechanics in play. This is sort of the same way in which Secret World's combat system is often overhyped in it's description.

I haven't played every single one of those but no, blade n soul and dungeon fighter aren't similar in the same way, not even close,  they do have some combos, but they aren't close to the combat reactive styles of DCUO, nor the way the vertical and movement styles play into it,  and the "simple" skill trees are anything but.  While the basic classes have simplistic trees, the movement trees, the iconic trees all have powers that you can pull from opening up more abilities than most games have per class. 

Limnic

Ehhh....that's an entirely personal view superimposed over insubstantial claims.

The interplay of certain game elements does impact the feel of the gameplay, yes, but point there was that the fundamentals are the same. That is why it was said as "all have similar basic combat mechanics (be it skinned in a very different way at times)", because the fundamentals are there even if the implementation varies.

And honestly the skill trees, even including movement and iconic, are very flat experiences and changes to the way the game plays. That variety claim as well is pretty overblown. I am not saying it's a bad game, but the claims being made are not congruent with reality.

I have a hard time seeing any objectivity in your statement, which is fine so long as you are sharing it solely as your opinion. However if that's the case, then I am also under no obligation to agree with your opinion.

maskedweasel

Limnic said:

Ehhh....that's an entirely personal view superimposed over insubstantial claims.

The interplay of certain game elements does impact the feel of the gameplay, yes, but point there was that the fundamentals are the same. That is why it was said as "all have similar basic combat mechanics (be it skinned in a very different way at times)", because the fundamentals are there even if the implementation varies.

And honestly the skill trees, even including movement and iconic, are very flat experiences and changes to the way the game plays. That variety claim as well is pretty overblown. I am not saying it's a bad game, but the claims being made are not congruent with reality.

I have a hard time seeing any objectivity in your statement, which is fine so long as you are sharing it solely as your opinion. However if that's the case, then I am also under no obligation to agree with your opinion.

No you don't, but the games you listed are basically very similar more so to games like Tera, or TSW than DCUO.

I begin to question whether you've actually played it to any depth to understand the differences in basic mechanics.   People tried to equate ESO to DCUO due to the fact there are weapon attacks, and equally so with games like Tera, but tera is similarly a rehash of what PSU was.  

The main difference here are the mechanics of combat.  Basically the rock paper scissors gameplay of the ACTUAL combat, not the classes.  Block breakers, Dodge Rolling, Roll Stunning, Blocking and Combo variations that intertwine these on the fly are unlike anything that pertains to a combat system currently.  

It's easy to not understand the system, I've seen it over and over again where people that are used to traditional MMOs don't get how the combat works at all.  The skill trees play into it in interesting ways as they also include stun breakers, evasion, block breakers, and damage, etc. the way regular MMOs do..  the difference is,  to be successful in this combat system, you don't just spam a few buttons and the oppoenent does and you have the occasional dodge put in.  If you aren't actively determining what the player is doing, and actively pushing your own combos you will fail every time.

A simple example is the Dual Pistols tree, with one combo string, you can put together a stun, block breaker, offensive attack, knock up, and end on a knock back without ever using a single other power.  Any opponent can block or counter any one of those in the course of their attack, based solely on their own combo string.  Most games don't even allow you to block, and if they do, they time gate it instead of allowing a combative counter for it.

No other game has that type of interactive combat, and for the simple fact that you listed several games you deem as "comparable" but aren't remotely shows that you're reaching at best to come up with something similar.

The closest combat you'll find would be akin to DMC or Prototype.  Maybe to a lesser degree the Batman Arkham games, Those are all Single Player Games. 

It's fine if you have a different opinion, but when subjecting a counterargument you should at least know the source material you're referencing. 

Like it or hate it, it's unlike any other MMO thats hit the market while you can very easily point to comparable styles of gameplay from one MMO to the next, whether you choose WoW,  TSW, ESO, Tera, Wildstar or whatever else out there... DCUO does stand alone.  

sumdumguy1

I played DCUO for about 3 months. The story was immersive too a point.  I did like the games mechanics, but the limitations of the f2p model and eventual boredom I had at max level when I finished did me in.  I came back 9 months ago, made another toon and maxed it out as well but came to the same problem I had previously.  Something was missing for me that other games have to keep me immersed and playing.

Limnic

Actually this would be you overblowing things again.

Literally everything you claimed as unique in regards to combos, blocks, breaks, etc of the basic combat is present across a variety of action MMOs, Champions Online included which is perhaps the most notable parallel anyone could make.

It's far simpler and more common than you seem to think, and the parallels I made was about the fundamentals of the combat not how they were dressed up to "look" different. The assertions you're making simply aren't aligning with the rest of the information out there, not to mention my personal experience on the matter.

To turn your argument into claiming "Well obviously I just know more about this game than you." is not a meaningful argument nor a reasonable one. "Like it or hate it", your opinion is not gospel, and saying "nu-uh" whenever someone mentions some game has a feature you claim is unique is silly at best.

Enjoy your opinions as the opinions they are.

maskedweasel

Limnic said:

Actually this would be you overblowing things again.

Literally everything you claimed as unique in regards to combos, blocks, breaks, etc of the basic combat is present across a variety of action MMOs, Champions Online included which is perhaps the most notable parallel anyone could make.

It's far simpler and more common than you seem to think, and the parallels I made was about the fundamentals of the combat not how they were dressed up to "look" different. The assertions you're making simply aren't aligning with the rest of the information out there, not to mention my personal experience on the matter.

To turn your argument into claiming "Well obviously I just know more about this game than you." is not a meaningful argument nor a reasonable one. "Like it or hate it", your opinion is not gospel, and saying "nu-uh" whenever someone mentions some game has a feature you claim is unique is silly at best.

Enjoy your opinions as the opinions they are.

Champions online isn't even relatively close.  I was there in beta when they created champions online.  It' NOTHING like it in terms of combat, not even remotely close in combat, again this shows you have no idea what you're talking about.  

Champions online has a block,  but again its time gated, and there aren't any real specific combat mechanics dictating string combos or evasion.   Champions was an "evolution" of CoH.  You've really picked the wrong conversation here - one where you don't know what the combat mechanics are of half the games you're talking about and you're trying to speak with authority.  

I don't think you've tried any of these games.  If you can't very quickly tell the stark combat differences between DCUO and a game like Champions Online, then you're obviously arguing for the sake of arguing and clearly showing your bias.

DCUO is F2P so is Champions.. go play them both, I'll join you in both of them and lets see what happens where combat is concerned.  We can PvP.   You'll learn first hand the differences.

Below are two videos I just picked up randomly.  Look at the major differences between the two... it's quite clear how different the combat is.  DCUO is much more tactical, if you know what you're looking for you can see clearly, different blocks, block breaks, evasion, powers... Look at the champions video.. even sped up its pretty bad,  how often do they use block in those fights?  

Limnic

That comparison video actually shows the champs char using multiple defensive powers in addition to the basic block to counter the enemy. That champs video is displaying a defensive build where the character is stacking defensive skills together to basically be unkillable since they can counter a wide range of potential attacks. The minority of his abilities are offensive CC powers he uses to whittle his enemy down. 

That DUCO video you can actually see a good amount of repeating an attack chain to knock down an enemy and then a repeated loop. He only blocked early in the video whenever he was waiting for enemies to stand back up, and in the second half he stopped bothering to block altogether. Seriously, that was a seven and a half minute video of a dude mostly just repeating the same 5 second long attack chain until the other person would die. The ones displaying variety in their moves is ironically the person dying in that DCUO video, so not sure that "random draw" of yours is all it's cracked up to be.

Champions being an "evolution" of CoH is both irrelevant as well as not entirely accurate since Champs is based on a third party rule system (the Hero System) and aimed to be more arcade-action combat styled. Champion's block isn't "time gated" the basic block ability you can use whenever you want (even as a cancel for other abilities) and you can augment it with many secondary effect options. This is in addition to many powers you can pick in the game having effects that tether to use of another power, or even the basic combat having the cycling count for attacks that you can use to time abilities to trigger their effects.

You're grasping desperately at straws to argue something that so far proven to be untrue, and for a reason I can't even fathom in the first place. Is the only way for you to enjoy a game for you to believe it's a special snowflake? The fact that it's not has no bearing on whether you find it fun, so stop taking this information so hard.

Since you already devolved this discussion by declaring "fight me bro", stroking your e-peen for the sake of ego and pride for some game is not helpful in a reasonable discussion. This is like when Uwe Boll tried to prove his movies were good by challenging people to a boxing match.

If you really feel a pointless random fight in these games if of more benefit than, say, going into the games and looking through different player builds and a variety of gameplay strategies, then sure I'd be happy to entertain you some time. That's not going to change the point made that most of these games share the same basic mechanics as the likes of DCUO, just that it's been dolled up in different ways given other ancillary features.

cheyane

This game was good but I could never get the combat down because even with a programmable mouse the click twice with RMB and once LMB and so on was difficult. I could not program that to my mouse so I dropped the game. City of Heroes/Villains was a better game for me.

Po_gg

I like both (but CO better ) but I don't give a sh.t about combat so I don't really care how good or bad are they - that's up to each player's liking anyways. Still, as a "PC master race" member (   sarcasm, if wasn't clear) I agree @cheyane . It is now a bit better, compared to how it was at launch, where it was a real pain to play on PC (as in, mouse and keyboard). Not only the combat, but the menu structure, the interface, etc. as well. Even if you arrived without any knowledge of the history (a console action game with a slight pinch of MMO flavour on top, built by Sony for the very goal of having a console MMO(ish) game on their gear and was advertised as such), it was clear from the first moment that it's just a console port and it's aimed mainly on PS3. Luckily they upgraded the UI a lot since launch, and slightly even the controls.

Anyhow, since I'm not interested in the "who's combat is the bestestest" contest (for me neither of them is bad or off-putting, and I don't need more in that totally unimportant aspect of an mmorpg ), just wanted to reflect this:

maskedweasel said:

  Not aimbots,  not macroing, not rotations, 

khm... where were you when the banhammer cleared tons of macroers and glitchers from the game a couple years ago?