Originally posted by Siug It's a disgrace that they haven't fixed group finder in 2 months or even longer. I haven't had time to play recently but I guess it's still broken which is not acceptable in a P2P MMO. I remember it working properly before 1.5 patch.
Why am i surprised that you haven't played recently, oh yeah it's because of your false statement.OP if you want a group try running to the dungeon entrance theres always people there forming groups.
What eh said is true about LFG. it never worked properly and for last 2 or 3 months it got even worse. And yes being a lower level player i tried this 'dungeon entrance' idea and it was always deserted. Truth is that players don't bother with lower level dungeons anymore because it is too much of a hassle with no proper lfg tool.
This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say MMO's now are so dumbed down since UO or EQ. You don't need a dungeon finder to do dungeons. You need to get your anti-social butt into a guild or make your own group of friends. I swear people are so against guilds or making friends now and want nothing more than to "hit it and quit it" in terms of dungeons. What I missed about vanilla EQ and the difficulty of that MMO is probably the main reason most new MMO's fail, cause you content locusts that skip through quests only to level up to max level and complain that you are bored should just stop playing MMO's altogether. At the very least, you should stick to FPS games or similar products that don't focus on story content or exploration elements, like Planetside 2.
I am not sure who you are referring to in your first paragraph - I, for one love content and quests in ESO and was looking forward to group only for the sake of playing with other people. Would not call myself content locust.
I do not have RL friends playing MMOs, I have a small baby son, so my playing time cannot so well be synchronized with some other online friends. I have joined 5 (FIVE) guilds, and been hanging out in front of the dungeon for good proportion of my playing time. With my freaking tank! No groups at all as a result. When a guy like me, that has 90 minutes of playing time in the evening available, I simply cannot spend it frustratingly "looking for friends".
Is this what all people on this forums are referring to as the "good old days"? Spamming LFG endlessly and calling that a "real" mmorpg hardcore sandbox whatever? To me... it seems frustrating... I am frustrated from this game, and I love all the rest of it.
There are two problems currently with the LFG tool:
This all started when they changed the dungeons to scale to the leader's level making them all repeatable without at the same time changing the LFG to allow you to specify which dungeons you want to Q for. The choices currently are to Q for 1 specific dungeon or all of them.
Before the change "all" in the LFG tool level-restricted the dungeons to the 3 that were in your level range. Now you can be level 40, Q for all and be put in a group for a dungeon from 3 zones ago because someone else Qd for that one. So people Q for just the one they're interested in and the LFG tool tries to find others within 2 levels of you for that one. Consequently people form groups using chat and ignore the tool.
The other problem is that the bulk of the population is in the VR levels running vet dungeons, pledges, trials, or questing/grinding in Craglorn. The lower level areas don't have anywhere near the population they had 9 months ago. The number of people lfg for instances is much lower.
Now this happens in all MMOs but what makes it harder to find a group here than in others is that ESO does not have a dungeon grinding culture for 2 reasons: you only get a skill point for running it the first time and, more importantly, the drops and XP are nothing outstanding. XP in there is actually lower than what you get for same level mob kills outside the dungeons. This last bit excludes anyone who is in any way trying to use their time efficiently for leveling since both grinding outside dungeons and questing are much, much more efficient for both, leveling and getting skill points than dungeon grouping.
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This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say MMO's now are so dumbed down since UO or EQ. You don't need a dungeon finder to do dungeons. You need to get your anti-social butt into a guild or make your own group of friends. I swear people are so against guilds or making friends now and want nothing more than to "hit it and quit it" in terms of dungeons. What I missed about vanilla EQ and the difficulty of that MMO is probably the main reason most new MMO's fail, cause you content locusts that skip through quests only to level up to max level and complain that you are bored should just stop playing MMO's altogether. At the very least, you should stick to FPS games or similar products that don't focus on story content or exploration elements, like Planetside 2.
As for anyone who complained in this thread that ESO is too hard or broken. Get over your lone wolf attitude and play MMO's as they were intended. This particular MMO is actually one of the most favorable towards the "lone wolf" personalities. Aside from a lack of a working group finder, which is nothing more than a crutch in my opinion, ESO is truly solo friendly.
I disagree to an extent... I agree this game is very solo friendly. However, I don't agree with the content portion. The problem isn't with skipping through the content, the content is just lacking. 99% of the quests are easily soloed and therefore in my mind are unnecessary. Additionally, even the "group" quests can be soloed in numerous cases if you play the right class. In all reality the whole idea behind quests has ruined these games for me. They are too obvious (in what is the easiest way to get it done is). For example, a quest to pick items up or loot items- slower if you group because you share the same dropped items. If it is a quest to kill a specific number of mobs, it is faster as a group because you share kills and they count for the same amount of credit...
I don't think the story is what makes the MMO as much as what players as a whole make of it. And obviously if solo is the easiest path, that is the path people will take.
You mention EQ (my favorite MMO) whats the difference between the quests. Now quests have a clear obvious path to take... some even have markers on the map telling you what to do. Without reading the quest, you can see what needs to be done... collect 10, kill 20 etc. EQ on the other hand, you had to at the very least read the [words inside the squares]... or know what the last [phrase to say is]. To make it better, the quests typically were more difficult requiring you to travel to various zones to obtain all the items (at least the ones that offered anything decent) even the easy quests (4 bonechips etc) offered little. (Bonechips and orc belts (df and cb belts and pads) were about the only time you got a considerable amount of xp at low level- but the sacrifice was those items had a higher player value- which you lost out on... additionally your characters skills may be lacking if you over used these quests)
Epic quests that actually gave decent gear took quite some time... and if done during their time frame also required grouping. Now the difference between a "solo" quest and a "sort of groupable" quest is a green or blue item, that you will easily replace in the next xp zone. (Which is a whole new issue- there are now like 5 zones to level up in compared to hundreds- meaning there is a specific and limited path for you to follow- again making the story in my opinion... less valuable)
Go to ESO... it takes 1 week or less (while working a 40 hour work week) to go lvl 1 to vr12 with minimal effort by grinding. Besides Power Leveling, this would be impossible back in EQ in 1999... even through Luclin.
I quit ESO less than a year ago and yet I barely remember zone names etc, the game did not stick with me. I quit EQ years ago.. and I still remembered 95% of the zones when I went back to it... even going back to play I remembered my way around the zones (on p1999 with no maps). The difference, I was involved in the zones...The zones had a purpose. I was not required to be in every zone, I had options as did every other player. I could solo, I could group, at various stages of the game one could be faster than the other- but in the end there was a good mix required to level and obtain gear.
I have joined 5 (FIVE) guilds, and been hanging out in front of the dungeon for good proportion of my playing time. With my freaking tank! No groups at all as a result. When a guy like me, that has 90 minutes of playing time in the evening available, I simply cannot spend it frustratingly "looking for friends".
^This
And another issue with modern MMO's (or even old 1s now since they have integrated this new guild garbage).
Guild's now are easily made. They typically require 1 player... if they require more- all it requires is people to sign something then leave it. Making too many available guilds. Most guilds end up just being another LFG tool or smaller version of a general chat channel.
People can make a different guild for each of their characters in many games. (not the ones that put all your characters in the same guilds) But these typically let you join multiple guilds.. another issue to me.
A guild almost serve no purpose. You can join and leave a guild with little repercussions. A guild use to have value when it actually required dedication to create and run a guild.
The only guilds now that hold any value are the high end guilds that have higher standards required to join. I remember when joining a guild use to be a process. It would require a trial period (where you joined or sometimes not) but had to have people vouch for you. It use to be something you did not just join because you were invited. You joined because the guild was going a direction that you wanted to go. Whether that was casual raiding, grouping or hardcore raiding. You joined with people you played the game with- building a stronger community within the guild.
So I just started with this game, levelled my dps to lvl 13 looking forward to do the dungeon runs. X hours in group finder, in chat or in front of banished cells - nothing. So i rolled a tank (even though a bad idea for a noob i guess). I reach spindleclutch, wait in front, shout in chat and use group finder and... nothing. The tank lfg were not done at peak hours, dps yes.
We have an EU megaserver ffs, are there really NO players in ALL OF EUROPE to do the dungeons with? Or am I missing something?
The game is otherwise great, love the builds, lore, graphics, combat, etc. But big dissapointment in this "dungeons" department.
As others have said pugs in ESO (and other games) are really hit & miss. Best to try and find a guild, but if you start looking for one interview them. I know you won't really know how they will be until after you join but you can join 5 guilds. If one doesn't meet your needs leave it and try another.
I am not sure who you are referring to in your first paragraph - I, for one love content and quests in ESO and was looking forward to group only for the sake of playing with other people. Would not call myself content locust.
I do not have RL friends playing MMOs, I have a small baby son, so my playing time cannot so well be synchronized with some other online friends. I have joined 5 (FIVE) guilds, and been hanging out in front of the dungeon for good proportion of my playing time. With my freaking tank! No groups at all as a result. When a guy like me, that has 90 minutes of playing time in the evening available, I simply cannot spend it frustratingly "looking for friends".
Is this what all people on this forums are referring to as the "good old days"? Spamming LFG endlessly and calling that a "real" mmorpg hardcore sandbox whatever? To me... it seems frustrating... I am frustrated from this game, and I love all the rest of it.
I read your other post saying you were checking out 2 other EU guilds. I hope that works out for you. I'm in 4 guilds, 2 of which are crafting and the other 2 are pure trade. My crafting ones have a really great, helpful, and mature community. Normally, on the weekends, there are rotating guild events for the factions where groups will be formed and dungeon runs will be completed. I hope you can find a similar guild.
It can also be beneficial to ask in chat about setting up a time with some guildies later in the week to do a dungeon. Like, a Monday morning group. A little planning can help if you have a more limited time to be online.
Don't be afraid to ditch a guild that isn't working for you, either. Sometimes it takes a couple of tries to find one that really meshes with you.
And another issue with modern MMO's (or even old 1s now since they have integrated this new guild garbage).
<snip>
A guild almost serve no purpose. You can join and leave a guild with little repercussions. A guild use to have value when it actually required dedication to create and run a guild.
The only guilds now that hold any value are the high end guilds that have higher standards required to join. I remember when joining a guild use to be a process. It would require a trial period (where you joined or sometimes not) but had to have people vouch for you. It use to be something you did not just join because you were invited. You joined because the guild was going a direction that you wanted to go. Whether that was casual raiding, grouping or hardcore raiding. You joined with people you played the game with- building a stronger community within the guild.
I disagree, and I find your post to be really elitist. There is a lot more to a game, especially ESO, than joining a self-perceived "hardcore" raiding guild. That style might suit you, and may be what you are accustomed to, but I can assure you there are many other communities happening around you in-game that are very worthwhile to be a part of.
Thank you all for very interesting responses. I agree with many of you, and it seems I will have to readjust my "dungeon" running mentality for ESO and enjoy other aspects of the game.
And also hopefully they will tweak LFG tool in update 1.6, because the dungeons seem fun in this game.
Originally posted by Orious I still don't think you need an LFG tool to group, but hey... I been playing MMOs since 1999... my bias is there.
LFGs are not required to group, when you have hours upon hours at a time to play...
When you have 2 hours to play, and over an hour of that is spent spamming zone and guild chats for a group, as a tank, something has to give..
Your "i've been playing MMOs since 99" high horse elietism isnt helping the discussion, nor does it make spamming zone/guild chats for hours any less tedius, when it doesnt need to be...
You are basically the real life equivolent of "we don't need cars....in my time, we got around just fine on horses..."
This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say MMO's now are so dumbed down since UO or EQ. You don't need a dungeon finder to do dungeons. You need to get your anti-social butt into a guild or make your own group of friends. I swear people are so against guilds or making friends now and want nothing more than to "hit it and quit it" in terms of dungeons. What I missed about vanilla EQ and the difficulty of that MMO is probably the main reason most new MMO's fail, cause you content locusts that skip through quests only to level up to max level and complain that you are bored should just stop playing MMO's altogether. At the very least, you should stick to FPS games or similar products that don't focus on story content or exploration elements, like Planetside 2.
As for anyone who complained in this thread that ESO is too hard or broken. Get over your lone wolf attitude and play MMO's as they were intended. This particular MMO is actually one of the most favorable towards the "lone wolf" personalities. Aside from a lack of a working group finder, which is nothing more than a crutch in my opinion, ESO is truly solo friendly.
EQ was not difficult. I could be really succesful in that game and still faceroll my keyboard. All I needed was time. Lots of it. Besides no one in this topic talked about difficulty, it's about finding groups.
If I have 1 hour to play, I could easily pop a LFG queue in a game like WoW and play. If I had to spend 1 hour spamming group chat, I would not even bother logging into the game.
IF EQ was so successful, why did everyone jump onto WoW as soon as that game made MMOS accessible for people who didn't have 5-10 hours a day to play a game. EQ was not a game for people with lives. This is a small detail all the nostalgic EQ fans fail to mention. Every single time!
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Thank you all for very interesting responses. I agree with many of you, and it seems I will have to readjust my "dungeon" running mentality for ESO and enjoy other aspects of the game.
And also hopefully they will tweak LFG tool in update 1.6, because the dungeons seem fun in this game.
I think the biggest issue with low level doungeons is they don't give much XP and the rewards are only good for a day or two. If it is tweaked during 1.6 they would need to add more XP gain. If they did that I'm sure queues would come quick if not much quicker.
This is a very well known problem when the majority of the population reaches end game and not enough new players join the game, low level content that needs grouping is impossible to complete.
FFXIV for example uses a system that encourages high level players to run these low level dungeons by making them part of daily/weekly quests or part of relic weapon upgrades etc. It's very important that the developers actively encourage high level players to group with low level players. IT works great in FFXIV.
If there are no measures in place to address these issues then the game will fail since new players do not find help with their content and will abandon the game in the early levels. You want new players to stay not leave.
Well, this isn't good news for me LOL. I just installed it last night and was going to play later tonight, I loved the one dungeon I was able to do during beta, nobody knew what to do, it was pretty tough. But if nobody even plays anymore.. that's kinda sucky.
When all is said and done, more is always said than done.
This is a very well known problem when the majority of the population reaches end game and not enough new players join the game, low level content that needs grouping is impossible to complete.
FFXIV for example uses a system that encourages high level players to run these low level dungeons by making them part of daily/weekly quests or part of relic weapon upgrades etc. It's very important that the developers actively encourage high level players to group with low level players. IT works great in FFXIV.
If there are no measures in place to address these issues then the game will fail since new players do not find help with their content and will abandon the game in the early levels. You want new players to stay not leave.
That's not the issue in ESO though. Low levels are everywhere. I'm sure in fact there are many more people below cap than at cap. I think there's just not much benifit to running low level dungeons. The just don't give good xp or gear that's useful more than a day. You kinda get the feeling like you wasted an hour where you could have gained a couple levels. Couple that with a borked group finder, and you get the issue we are talking about.
Originally posted by OhhPaigey Well, this isn't good news for me LOL. I just installed it last night and was going to play later tonight, I loved the one dungeon I was able to do during beta, nobody knew what to do, it was pretty tough. But if nobody even plays anymore.. that's kinda sucky.
Of course people play.
Obviously the best thing to do is to join a guild and a good guild.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by OhhPaigey Well, this isn't good news for me LOL. I just installed it last night and was going to play later tonight, I loved the one dungeon I was able to do during beta, nobody knew what to do, it was pretty tough. But if nobody even plays anymore.. that's kinda sucky.
Of course people play.
Obviously the best thing to do is to join a guild and a good guild.
Or find an MMO more tuned to your play style.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
This is a very well known problem when the majority of the population reaches end game and not enough new players join the game, low level content that needs grouping is impossible to complete.
FFXIV for example uses a system that encourages high level players to run these low level dungeons by making them part of daily/weekly quests or part of relic weapon upgrades etc. It's very important that the developers actively encourage high level players to group with low level players. IT works great in FFXIV.
If there are no measures in place to address these issues then the game will fail since new players do not find help with their content and will abandon the game in the early levels. You want new players to stay not leave.
That's not the issue in ESO though. Low levels are everywhere. I'm sure in fact there are many more people below cap than at cap. I think there's just not much benifit to running low level dungeons. The just don't give good xp or gear that's useful more than a day. You kinda get the feeling like you wasted an hour where you could have gained a couple levels. Couple that with a borked group finder, and you get the issue we are talking about.
Wow, that is really bad game design. If they can't even get the basics like dungeons right then all is lost i am afraid.
This is a very well known problem when the majority of the population reaches end game and not enough new players join the game, low level content that needs grouping is impossible to complete.
FFXIV for example uses a system that encourages high level players to run these low level dungeons by making them part of daily/weekly quests or part of relic weapon upgrades etc. It's very important that the developers actively encourage high level players to group with low level players. IT works great in FFXIV.
If there are no measures in place to address these issues then the game will fail since new players do not find help with their content and will abandon the game in the early levels. You want new players to stay not leave.
That's not the issue in ESO though. Low levels are everywhere. I'm sure in fact there are many more people below cap than at cap. I think there's just not much benifit to running low level dungeons. The just don't give good xp or gear that's useful more than a day. You kinda get the feeling like you wasted an hour where you could have gained a couple levels. Couple that with a borked group finder, and you get the issue we are talking about.
Wow, that is really bad game design. If they can't even get the basics like dungeons right then all is lost i am afraid.
Most mmo's have this game design. Especially after they have been out for some time.
That's why they eventually try to incorporate systems where high level players can delevel or become a patron, etc. to low level players.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The evil twin part of me can't help but chuckle at some of the people who in the past referred to us who played the game at release as "early adopters" or "paying to beta a bug-ridden mess" struggling to group in low level areas when they pick up the game several months later.
I mean, everything else we've said about dungeon grouping in ESO is true: poor XP, the loot is meh, much better ways of getting skill points, it's better in a guild... but back in April all of those things were also true and even DPS got groups in seconds.
It's always more fun at release. Sorry, but it's true.
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You know a game like FFXIV ARR which has been out longer I have never had any problem getting a group to do dungeons and I can do them back to back and if I wanted run them all day. The dungeons in FFXIV ARR are very good but I have finally left it now since I got tired of the gear grind after reaching 50 ( materia infusion I am looking at you) and I am trying ESO now. It does make me feel a bit disappointed that I might not get to experience the dungeons because for me grouping is the best aspect of MMORPGS. They seriously should fix this problem and it is not good for newer gamers if they cannot find groups easily it is in fact a bad thing if you are trying to bring in new players.
The evil twin part of me can't help but chuckle at some of the people who in the past referred to us who played the game at release as "early adopters" or "paying to beta a bug-ridden mess" struggling to group in low level areas when they pick up the game several months later.
I mean, everything else we've said about dungeon grouping in ESO is true: poor XP, the loot is meh, much better ways of getting skill points, it's better in a guild... but back in April all of those things were also true and even DPS got groups in seconds.
It's always more fun at release. Sorry, but it's true.
+1, and during beta xp was good everywhere, dungeons, grinding mobs, pvp, then they nerfed it cause they wanted players to level by questing. Probably because players were hitting 50 to quick and there was pvp only for end game.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
The evil twin part of me can't help but chuckle at some of the people who in the past referred to us who played the game at release as "early adopters" or "paying to beta a bug-ridden mess" struggling to group in low level areas when they pick up the game several months later.
I mean, everything else we've said about dungeon grouping in ESO is true: poor XP, the loot is meh, much better ways of getting skill points, it's better in a guild... but back in April all of those things were also true and even DPS got groups in seconds.
It's always more fun at release. Sorry, but it's true.
+1, and during beta xp was good everywhere, dungeons, grinding mobs, pvp, then they nerfed it cause they wanted players to level by questing. Probably because players were hitting 50 to quick and there was pvp only for end game.
Yeah I remember the nerfs to PVP, dungeon and grinding XP.
ESO has just never really been set-up for dungeon running as a feature with incentives. Compared to WOW and the many games that have cloned its systems there is very little reason other than fun to run dungeons here.
In WOW as you're leveling you get much better gear from dungeon drops and the XP is outstanding. Not to mention the extra loot and XP you get by grouping for a random one. So everyone Qs for dungeons while questing and it's part of the culture there.
In some ways, WOW overdoes it to the extent that many treat it like a lobby game and park themselves by the AH doing not much while Q'd. It's pretty obvious that ESO wanted to outright reject some WOW features and in some cases they may have gone too far the other way.
Dungeon running in particular seems to be one feature they have been ambivalent about. Make them fun and interesting, but give poor XP and rewards; make them scalable but keep the drops and XP nerfed. Make a LFG tool and give it an "all" or single dungeon option, but don't include the ability to pick the 2 or 3 you're interested in.
It's not the only ESO feature that has given me the impression of competing game design philosophies in the dev team.
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Comments
What eh said is true about LFG. it never worked properly and for last 2 or 3 months it got even worse. And yes being a lower level player i tried this 'dungeon entrance' idea and it was always deserted. Truth is that players don't bother with lower level dungeons anymore because it is too much of a hassle with no proper lfg tool.
^This
There are two problems currently with the LFG tool:
This all started when they changed the dungeons to scale to the leader's level making them all repeatable without at the same time changing the LFG to allow you to specify which dungeons you want to Q for. The choices currently are to Q for 1 specific dungeon or all of them.
Before the change "all" in the LFG tool level-restricted the dungeons to the 3 that were in your level range. Now you can be level 40, Q for all and be put in a group for a dungeon from 3 zones ago because someone else Qd for that one. So people Q for just the one they're interested in and the LFG tool tries to find others within 2 levels of you for that one. Consequently people form groups using chat and ignore the tool.
The other problem is that the bulk of the population is in the VR levels running vet dungeons, pledges, trials, or questing/grinding in Craglorn. The lower level areas don't have anywhere near the population they had 9 months ago. The number of people lfg for instances is much lower.
Now this happens in all MMOs but what makes it harder to find a group here than in others is that ESO does not have a dungeon grinding culture for 2 reasons: you only get a skill point for running it the first time and, more importantly, the drops and XP are nothing outstanding. XP in there is actually lower than what you get for same level mob kills outside the dungeons. This last bit excludes anyone who is in any way trying to use their time efficiently for leveling since both grinding outside dungeons and questing are much, much more efficient for both, leveling and getting skill points than dungeon grouping.
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I disagree to an extent... I agree this game is very solo friendly. However, I don't agree with the content portion. The problem isn't with skipping through the content, the content is just lacking. 99% of the quests are easily soloed and therefore in my mind are unnecessary. Additionally, even the "group" quests can be soloed in numerous cases if you play the right class. In all reality the whole idea behind quests has ruined these games for me. They are too obvious (in what is the easiest way to get it done is). For example, a quest to pick items up or loot items- slower if you group because you share the same dropped items. If it is a quest to kill a specific number of mobs, it is faster as a group because you share kills and they count for the same amount of credit...
I don't think the story is what makes the MMO as much as what players as a whole make of it. And obviously if solo is the easiest path, that is the path people will take.
You mention EQ (my favorite MMO) whats the difference between the quests. Now quests have a clear obvious path to take... some even have markers on the map telling you what to do. Without reading the quest, you can see what needs to be done... collect 10, kill 20 etc. EQ on the other hand, you had to at the very least read the [words inside the squares]... or know what the last [phrase to say is]. To make it better, the quests typically were more difficult requiring you to travel to various zones to obtain all the items (at least the ones that offered anything decent) even the easy quests (4 bonechips etc) offered little. (Bonechips and orc belts (df and cb belts and pads) were about the only time you got a considerable amount of xp at low level- but the sacrifice was those items had a higher player value- which you lost out on... additionally your characters skills may be lacking if you over used these quests)
Epic quests that actually gave decent gear took quite some time... and if done during their time frame also required grouping. Now the difference between a "solo" quest and a "sort of groupable" quest is a green or blue item, that you will easily replace in the next xp zone. (Which is a whole new issue- there are now like 5 zones to level up in compared to hundreds- meaning there is a specific and limited path for you to follow- again making the story in my opinion... less valuable)
Go to ESO... it takes 1 week or less (while working a 40 hour work week) to go lvl 1 to vr12 with minimal effort by grinding. Besides Power Leveling, this would be impossible back in EQ in 1999... even through Luclin.
I quit ESO less than a year ago and yet I barely remember zone names etc, the game did not stick with me. I quit EQ years ago.. and I still remembered 95% of the zones when I went back to it... even going back to play I remembered my way around the zones (on p1999 with no maps). The difference, I was involved in the zones...The zones had a purpose. I was not required to be in every zone, I had options as did every other player. I could solo, I could group, at various stages of the game one could be faster than the other- but in the end there was a good mix required to level and obtain gear.
And another issue with modern MMO's (or even old 1s now since they have integrated this new guild garbage).
Guild's now are easily made. They typically require 1 player... if they require more- all it requires is people to sign something then leave it. Making too many available guilds. Most guilds end up just being another LFG tool or smaller version of a general chat channel.
People can make a different guild for each of their characters in many games. (not the ones that put all your characters in the same guilds) But these typically let you join multiple guilds.. another issue to me.
A guild almost serve no purpose. You can join and leave a guild with little repercussions. A guild use to have value when it actually required dedication to create and run a guild.
The only guilds now that hold any value are the high end guilds that have higher standards required to join. I remember when joining a guild use to be a process. It would require a trial period (where you joined or sometimes not) but had to have people vouch for you. It use to be something you did not just join because you were invited. You joined because the guild was going a direction that you wanted to go. Whether that was casual raiding, grouping or hardcore raiding. You joined with people you played the game with- building a stronger community within the guild.
As others have said pugs in ESO (and other games) are really hit & miss. Best to try and find a guild, but if you start looking for one interview them. I know you won't really know how they will be until after you join but you can join 5 guilds. If one doesn't meet your needs leave it and try another.
I read your other post saying you were checking out 2 other EU guilds. I hope that works out for you. I'm in 4 guilds, 2 of which are crafting and the other 2 are pure trade. My crafting ones have a really great, helpful, and mature community. Normally, on the weekends, there are rotating guild events for the factions where groups will be formed and dungeon runs will be completed. I hope you can find a similar guild.
It can also be beneficial to ask in chat about setting up a time with some guildies later in the week to do a dungeon. Like, a Monday morning group. A little planning can help if you have a more limited time to be online.
Don't be afraid to ditch a guild that isn't working for you, either. Sometimes it takes a couple of tries to find one that really meshes with you.
I disagree, and I find your post to be really elitist. There is a lot more to a game, especially ESO, than joining a self-perceived "hardcore" raiding guild. That style might suit you, and may be what you are accustomed to, but I can assure you there are many other communities happening around you in-game that are very worthwhile to be a part of.
Thank you all for very interesting responses. I agree with many of you, and it seems I will have to readjust my "dungeon" running mentality for ESO and enjoy other aspects of the game.
And also hopefully they will tweak LFG tool in update 1.6, because the dungeons seem fun in this game.
LFGs are not required to group, when you have hours upon hours at a time to play...
When you have 2 hours to play, and over an hour of that is spent spamming zone and guild chats for a group, as a tank, something has to give..
Your "i've been playing MMOs since 99" high horse elietism isnt helping the discussion, nor does it make spamming zone/guild chats for hours any less tedius, when it doesnt need to be...
You are basically the real life equivolent of "we don't need cars....in my time, we got around just fine on horses..."
EQ was not difficult. I could be really succesful in that game and still faceroll my keyboard. All I needed was time. Lots of it. Besides no one in this topic talked about difficulty, it's about finding groups.
If I have 1 hour to play, I could easily pop a LFG queue in a game like WoW and play. If I had to spend 1 hour spamming group chat, I would not even bother logging into the game.
IF EQ was so successful, why did everyone jump onto WoW as soon as that game made MMOS accessible for people who didn't have 5-10 hours a day to play a game. EQ was not a game for people with lives. This is a small detail all the nostalgic EQ fans fail to mention. Every single time!
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I think the biggest issue with low level doungeons is they don't give much XP and the rewards are only good for a day or two. If it is tweaked during 1.6 they would need to add more XP gain. If they did that I'm sure queues would come quick if not much quicker.
This is a very well known problem when the majority of the population reaches end game and not enough new players join the game, low level content that needs grouping is impossible to complete.
FFXIV for example uses a system that encourages high level players to run these low level dungeons by making them part of daily/weekly quests or part of relic weapon upgrades etc. It's very important that the developers actively encourage high level players to group with low level players. IT works great in FFXIV.
If there are no measures in place to address these issues then the game will fail since new players do not find help with their content and will abandon the game in the early levels. You want new players to stay not leave.
That's not the issue in ESO though. Low levels are everywhere. I'm sure in fact there are many more people below cap than at cap. I think there's just not much benifit to running low level dungeons. The just don't give good xp or gear that's useful more than a day. You kinda get the feeling like you wasted an hour where you could have gained a couple levels. Couple that with a borked group finder, and you get the issue we are talking about.
Of course people play.
Obviously the best thing to do is to join a guild and a good guild.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Or find an MMO more tuned to your play style.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Wow, that is really bad game design. If they can't even get the basics like dungeons right then all is lost i am afraid.
Most mmo's have this game design. Especially after they have been out for some time.
That's why they eventually try to incorporate systems where high level players can delevel or become a patron, etc. to low level players.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The evil twin part of me can't help but chuckle at some of the people who in the past referred to us who played the game at release as "early adopters" or "paying to beta a bug-ridden mess" struggling to group in low level areas when they pick up the game several months later.
I mean, everything else we've said about dungeon grouping in ESO is true: poor XP, the loot is meh, much better ways of getting skill points, it's better in a guild... but back in April all of those things were also true and even DPS got groups in seconds.
It's always more fun at release. Sorry, but it's true.
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+1, and during beta xp was good everywhere, dungeons, grinding mobs, pvp, then they nerfed it cause they wanted players to level by questing. Probably because players were hitting 50 to quick and there was pvp only for end game.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Yeah I remember the nerfs to PVP, dungeon and grinding XP.
ESO has just never really been set-up for dungeon running as a feature with incentives. Compared to WOW and the many games that have cloned its systems there is very little reason other than fun to run dungeons here.
In WOW as you're leveling you get much better gear from dungeon drops and the XP is outstanding. Not to mention the extra loot and XP you get by grouping for a random one. So everyone Qs for dungeons while questing and it's part of the culture there.
In some ways, WOW overdoes it to the extent that many treat it like a lobby game and park themselves by the AH doing not much while Q'd. It's pretty obvious that ESO wanted to outright reject some WOW features and in some cases they may have gone too far the other way.
Dungeon running in particular seems to be one feature they have been ambivalent about. Make them fun and interesting, but give poor XP and rewards; make them scalable but keep the drops and XP nerfed. Make a LFG tool and give it an "all" or single dungeon option, but don't include the ability to pick the 2 or 3 you're interested in.
It's not the only ESO feature that has given me the impression of competing game design philosophies in the dev team.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
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