IDK why people think this is a contest. If you are having problems with windows8 then get windows 7 it should work better for you. If you are not having problems then no need to act like no one else has problems. When you try to tell someone who has seen something through their own eyes that they really didn't see that then you are the one who looks like they are trolling. Why on the Earth would anyone think that all computers and drivers are perfectly written for windows 8?
"Correlation does not imply causation is a phrase used in science and statistics to emphasize that a correlation between two variables does not necessarily imply that one causes the other.["
The important issue here is that you are assuming your problems arose from having windows 8, and that installing windows 7 was the fix. The highly likely reality is there was something going on with your install of windows. That could have been a virus, a corrupted driver, a corrupted registry, a corrupted MFT, some program that was installed and running the background causing issues, etc etc.
You VERY likely could have done a clean install of windows 8/8.1 and acheived exactly the same results as installing windows 7.
Windows 7 and Windows 8 are 90%+ identical operating systems. They use the same kernel. Windows 8.1 had some major UI changes, and changes to allow it to use "apps" in the manner of a tablet using apps. Outside of that, and some other security/cloud stuff, they're the same OS. There is nothing fundamentally different between them that would account for the issues you were having.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
So about two years ago I got a new laptop and it had windows 8 64. The laptop was extremely slow and I couldn't open more then one internet browser at once without lagging the thing down and messing everything up. So a year later I got another new computer with 8 64 and this one ran very well. The only problem I had was when closing games it would take a really long time to close them.
Recently I got windows 7 32 and put it on the slow machine hoping it would solve something. Now that computer runs flawlessly on windows 7 32. I was really mad that I put up with that crappy computer for 2 years and it was all because of windows 8 64. So then I took the good laptop and installed windows 7 64 and guess what. It runs better then windows 8. I can close any game and it will close immediately and I can also press ctrl-alt-del and it works right away instead of 40 seconds later.
Conclusion... there is a difference between the two systems and yes windows 7 will give you a better gaming experience.
I had windows 8 pre-installed on my computer. It ran fast but the problem is `licensing`. Ive contacted the manufacturer of my gaming laptop that win8 wouldn't activate. They gave me a new key which is all fine but the moment i rebooted the laptop it would default to the key that was installed on the rom or bios, either of these 2.
Ended up i've got to used some shady software that would put my win8 on an infinite trial... The licensing is quite messed up. I tolerated it for months, for some reason i couldn't upgrade it to 8.1 as it was on infinite trial.
If i used the default OEM key-> I couldn't activate
If i used infinite trial method-> Couldn't upgrade to 8.1 for the `start menu` lol
I was like fk it and went to downgrade to win7. Been running smoothly ever since.
My issue with win8 isnt performance, it ran fast... but its the UI and licensing issue thats screwed up.
Gotta install classic-shell just to get a start menu on my vanilla w8.
Msoft and blizzard pvp balance team had something in common, fixing things that shouldn't be fixed in the first place lol.
Laptops have problems you will never see in the desktop world. Which is why both my laptops had different issues and both were fixed by simply taking an older version of windows. It might be the old drivers were written better and the newer drivers were just pushed out to make some fast money. I really believe its the drivers that cause the problems. Your example has something to do with the oem key which is in the bios. That key wasn't programmed properly so it kept defaulting windows. And there's almost nothing you can do about it.
What money do companies get from pushing drivers for a new OS? What hardware are you using that had so many issues? Seriously, everything you bring up is cryptic and generic, please, give a concrete example of a problem you had with details.
I gave you a concrete example in the OP. Ok i'll explain this a little elementary because you insisted. Laptop companies design a lot of their inner parts. You can't just take the motherboard from one laptop and plug it into another laptop you cant do that with the video card and the dvd drive. They don't have a generic driver that can be downloaded. GOTO Intel and look at their drivers.. They tell you that Laptops are different and you have to get the drivers from the manufacturer's website even though its an intel product. Because the driver is written specifically for that laptop. They save money by trying to use the same driver over and over or hiring a new person who doesn't have a clue on how to write the driver and they do it and there's a problem. Time is money that's not hard to understand at all. On this thread there are several examples of how Windows 7 fixed problems they were having. It's not my job to make sure windows8 runs smoothly on my computer.
You didn't give concrete examples anywhere. Maybe you need to go look up the definition of details, and while it's not your job it sounds like you're doing it wrong.
Originally posted by filmoret IDK why people think this is a contest. If you are having problems with windows8 then get windows 7 it should work better for you. If you are not having problems then no need to act like no one else has problems. When you try to tell someone who has seen something through their own eyes that they really didn't see that then you are the one who looks like they are trolling. Why on the Earth would anyone think that all computers and drivers are perfectly written for windows 8?
This is very bad advice. In general, Windows 8 is fine. It had some issues when it first released and a lot of people hated the new Metro interface for productivity applications. The issues have been fixed so that Windows 8 runs as well as, or better than Windows 7 for almost all systems and applications. The Metro interface issue is easy to get around by installing a third-party Start Menu.
Windows 7 likely worked better for you because it got rid of bloatware that came with your Windows 8 installation. You haven't told us how you obtained the PC (new, used, etc.) and you haven't told us the specs. For all we know, it could have been a used computer with malware from the last user causing performance issues.
Instead of taking the time to properly identify the cause of your issues, you jumped to a conclusion based on a preconceived notion that Windows 8 is bad. You installed Windows 7 32-bit and your software-related problems went away. Your choice of a 32-bit OS in a modern computer further reinforces what several of us thinking: you don't know what you are doing with computers. It isn't possible for us to confirm that without knowing your specs, but I doubt you'll share them at this point for fear of embarrassment.
So, post your specs and how you obtained the computer. Otherwise, this entire thread is based on one person's prejudice against something they know little about. It is likely pointless though, unless you want to learn more about computers. You already spent (wasted) money on Windows 7 and it is too late to get that money back.
Originally posted by filmoret IDK why people think this is a contest. If you are having problems with windows8 then get windows 7 it should work better for you. If you are not having problems then no need to act like no one else has problems. When you try to tell someone who has seen something through their own eyes that they really didn't see that then you are the one who looks like they are trolling. Why on the Earth would anyone think that all computers and drivers are perfectly written for windows 8?
This is very bad advice. In general, Windows 8 is fine. It had some issues when it first released and a lot of people hated the new Metro interface for productivity applications. The issues have been fixed so that Windows 8 runs as well as, or better than Windows 7 for almost all systems and applications. The Metro interface issue is easy to get around by installing a third-party Start Menu.
Windows 7 likely worked better for you because it got rid of bloatware that came with your Windows 8 installation. You haven't told us how you obtained the PC (new, used, etc.) and you haven't told us the specs. For all we know, it could have been a used computer with malware from the last user causing performance issues.
Instead of taking the time to properly identify the cause of your issues, you jumped to a conclusion based on a preconceived notion that Windows 8 is bad. You installed Windows 7 32-bit and your software-related problems went away. Your choice of a 32-bit OS in a modern computer further reinforces what several of us thinking: you don't know what you are doing with computers. It isn't possible for us to confirm that without knowing your specs, but I doubt you'll share them at this point for fear of embarrassment.
So, post your specs and how you obtained the computer. Otherwise, this entire thread is based on one person's prejudice against something they know little about. It is likely pointless though, unless you want to learn more about computers. You already spent (wasted) money on Windows 7 and it is too late to get that money back.
Pretty much this. Uh-oh, the check engine light in my car is on, better go buy last years model.
Ok I will stop and listen to see what is said or done. They are both brand new computers straight out of the box from BestBuy. They were unopened and brand spanking new not refurbished. The boxes were not tampered with and had original seal and packing.
Ok I will stop and listen to see what is said or done. They are both brand new computers straight out of the box from BestBuy. They were unopened and brand spanking new not refurbished. The boxes were not tampered with and had original seal and packing.
Now that you have the specs maybe there is a very good reason I had problems with both of these laptops brand spanking new out of the box.
Yup, you bought an off the shelf laptop from bestbuy, those come LOADED with bloatware. A fresh Win8 install would have netted the same results as your downgrade to Windows 7.
What 2 specific issues did you have?
Edit: Also, those are newer machines, odds are you'd have more issues with finding Win7 drivers than Win8, I'd suggest peeking at your device manager and seeing if there are any warnings (devices with yellow !)
Ok I will stop and listen to see what is said or done. They are both brand new computers straight out of the box from BestBuy. They were unopened and brand spanking new not refurbished. The boxes were not tampered with and had original seal and packing.
Now that you have the specs maybe there is a very good reason I had problems with both of these laptops brand spanking new out of the box.
The issue you're having, is the factory images are configured wrong, the laptops were configured wrong from the factory, and it's incredibly likely that the factory imaging process is/was screwed up as well.
To try and make a long story short, many PC manufacturers were so dead-set on keeping their special little garbage on the computers, and also not bright enough to figure out how to update them to actually support windows 8, they ended up shooting themselves in the knee with an arrow.
So, the fix:
-Get windows 8 x64 media (not 8.1, you'll need 8 to match the embedded key) If you have a friend in an IT department with access to MSDN or VL, they can get it for you.
-Burn the ISO to DVD, if you need/want usb, search for the instructions to make bootable win 8 USB via diskpart. Follow the instructions EXCEPT, format the USB with Fat32 (most instructions I've run across say NTFS, that is wrong, you'll need Fat32).
-Go into the bios, turn on UEFI, turn off legacy boot and turn on Secure boot. You should also check the storage, make sure the mode is IRRT (if there is no IRRT, you can use AHCI, but IRRT is better).
-Boot from your win 8 media, do the custom install option.
-When you hit the partition selection, delete all the partitions, and do new on the unallocated space to let windows set up the proper UEFI partitions. And then just install.
-After install, do windows updates (only load drivers that didn't load from media that are critical to updates, like network drivers). During updates, make sure to go to other and select drivers for install.
-Once all that's done, open up device manager to see what things didn't get picked up via windows update, and go hunting for those drivers (typically, I go to the manufacturer site to figure out what the devices are, then go to the device manufacturer for drivers first, if the manufacturer doesn't have it, then I use the laptop makers drivers).
And that should get everything working great. Windows 8 largest and best change, was the hefty UEFI integration. Most of the "just make it frigging faster!" options require UEFI mode.
Oh, and lastly, don't buy computers from best buy. The idiot squad opens them up and install more garbage on them, and charges extra to remove the garbage that they added... and they'll still leave the garbage the thing came with anyways.
Ok I will stop and listen to see what is said or done. They are both brand new computers straight out of the box from BestBuy. They were unopened and brand spanking new not refurbished. The boxes were not tampered with and had original seal and packing.
Now that you have the specs maybe there is a very good reason I had problems with both of these laptops brand spanking new out of the box.
Yup, you bought an off the shelf laptop from bestbuy, those come LOADED with bloatware. A fresh Win8 install would have netted the same results as your downgrade to Windows 7.
What 2 specific issues did you have?
Edit: Also, those are newer machines, odds are you'd have more issues with finding Win7 drivers than Win8, I'd suggest peeking at your device manager and seeing if there are any warnings (devices with yellow !)
I think you have a poor understanding of what drivers are, and Win 7 is more of a 'side grade' than a 'downgrade'
Now that you have the specs maybe there is a very good reason I had problems with both of these laptops brand spanking new out of the box.
The first computer has a low-end processor for today's standards. It wouldn't take much bloatware to slow that thing to a crawl.
The second computer's specs are better. Without knowing your issues, it is impossible to guess how to fix it. I'm betting it wasn't related to Windows 8, directly. If you installed Windows 7 32-bit on the second computer, you just made half of your RAM unusable due to the 32-bit memory limit. It won't cost you anything (aside from a DVD to burn the iso) to change to a 64-bit OS, but you'll lose all of your installed programs.
Have to say I've noticed my windows 8.1 system's faster than 7 myself. (I do a yearly reformat so yeah it's not just the new os) I do set my boot option to the desktop though I kept metro for my start button as I actually found it useful for email, certain apps, ect. It's still not perfect as it's still a split os... but they look to be fixing that in 10 so... the next os is going to be awesome. That and the os should be getting bigger better apps because of the universal push that they didn't quite get right with 8. It is a very much better two monitor set up os and does 4k a heck of a lot better than the previous iteration but otherwise 7's still awsome... that said I can't imagine why anyone would stick to it once 10 comes out as it's going to be a free upgrade.
Ok I will stop and listen to see what is said or done. They are both brand new computers straight out of the box from BestBuy. They were unopened and brand spanking new not refurbished. The boxes were not tampered with and had original seal and packing.
Now that you have the specs maybe there is a very good reason I had problems with both of these laptops brand spanking new out of the box.
Yup, you bought an off the shelf laptop from bestbuy, those come LOADED with bloatware. A fresh Win8 install would have netted the same results as your downgrade to Windows 7.
What 2 specific issues did you have?
Edit: Also, those are newer machines, odds are you'd have more issues with finding Win7 drivers than Win8, I'd suggest peeking at your device manager and seeing if there are any warnings (devices with yellow !)
I think you have a poor understanding of what drivers are, and Win 7 is more of a 'side grade' than a 'downgrade'
I have a solid understanding, new hardware that is put into laptops after OEMs quit using WIndows 7 normally do not even have a Windows 7 driver at all. I tried pushing an HP laptop that came with Windows 8 to Windows 7 and it was a nightmare making every driver work. Seriously, look at all the replies, you bought laptops loaded with garbage and blamed the OS. A clean Win 8 install would have worked just the same as installing Win 7.
Originally posted by Trionicus So...open and shut case, he bought off the shelf laptops that came loaded with bloatware and blamed Win8?
Seems so.
It actually amazes me that people who are in younger generations, lets say 30 and under, that don't know how computers work at a basic level. People have been bitching about bloatware for the better part of 15 years. The fact that you get people like this, who buy a comp loaded with bloatware, then complain about it to people who know what they're talking about, then don't actually listen to what those people are telling them, and instead argue with them... its just mind blowing.
If i go to a bunch of mechanical engineers and ask them why i might be having problems with my differential, i shut the hell up and listen, i don't snap get all indignant, etc.
Anyways, pretty much a dead thread, but, just felt like adding that little bit.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
It actually amazes me that people who are in younger generations, lets say 30 and under, that don't know how computers work at a basic level.
The newest iPad generation knows less about PC than previous generations who grew up with computers.
Most ppl can't explain how a pointer works in memory, most can't explain how a memory stack and heap works. Even though most ppl know what RAM is, they don't know anything about how it works.
Most ppl who grew up with PC instead of iPads know how RAM works, since they taught ppl in most high schools, nowadays, they don't teach that anymore, they teach kids how their iPad works.
It actually amazes me that people who are in younger generations, lets say 30 and under, that don't know how computers work at a basic level.
The newest iPad generation knows less about PC than previous generations who grew up with computers.
Most ppl can't explain how a pointer works in memory, most can't explain how a memory stack and heap works. Even though most ppl know what RAM is, they don't know anything about how it works.
Most ppl who grew up with PC instead of iPads know how RAM works, since they taught ppl in most high schools, nowadays, they don't teach that anymore, they teach kids how their iPad works.
Not sure to which generation you are referring to when you say grew up with PCs but I can tell you that more poeple than not don't know how RAM works. A lot of people who "grew up" with PCS 30+ don't even know the difference between GPU, CPU, RAM, Hard Drive. It's so retarded when someone asks me is this computer with 512 GB RAM fast enough?
I am in my early 20s and I can tell you that most of my friends have no clue about RAM. Obviously not a representative sample but it's just my personal experience.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
It actually amazes me that people who are in younger generations, lets say 30 and under, that don't know how computers work at a basic level.
The newest iPad generation knows less about PC than previous generations who grew up with computers.
Most ppl can't explain how a pointer works in memory, most can't explain how a memory stack and heap works. Even though most ppl know what RAM is, they don't know anything about how it works.
Most ppl who grew up with PC instead of iPads know how RAM works, since they taught ppl in most high schools, nowadays, they don't teach that anymore, they teach kids how their iPad works.
Not sure to which generation you are referring to when you say grew up with PCs but I can tell you that more poeple than not don't know how RAM works. A lot of people who "grew up" with PCS 30+ don't even know the difference between GPU, CPU, RAM, Hard Drive. It's so retarded when someone asks me is this computer with 512 GB RAM fast enough?
I am in my early 20s and I can tell you that most of my friends have no clue about RAM. Obviously not a representative sample but it's just my personal experience.
512 GB of ram is barely sufficient.
=P
Honestly , I have to agree. I am almost 40 and was at the beginning stage of the "PC" and the computer classes in school. I saw the evolution of the PC from a luxury item that very few had to something closer to television which wasowned by the masses....And it all changed.
-Not just the knowledge base but also the games and the programs which were dumbed down for the masses who would be the largest user base.
I think the PC knowledge (what was taught in school)peaked around 2004 and has been going downhill ever since. The most recent generation knows very little about computers while the group just slightly older than therm seem to be VERY well informed.
It actually amazes me that people who are in younger generations, lets say 30 and under, that don't know how computers work at a basic level.
The newest iPad generation knows less about PC than previous generations who grew up with computers.
Most ppl can't explain how a pointer works in memory, most can't explain how a memory stack and heap works. Even though most ppl know what RAM is, they don't know anything about how it works.
Most ppl who grew up with PC instead of iPads know how RAM works, since they taught ppl in most high schools, nowadays, they don't teach that anymore, they teach kids how their iPad works.
Not sure to which generation you are referring to when you say grew up with PCs but I can tell you that more poeple than not don't know how RAM works. A lot of people who "grew up" with PCS 30+ don't even know the difference between GPU, CPU, RAM, Hard Drive. It's so retarded when someone asks me is this computer with 512 GB RAM fast enough?
I am in my early 20s and I can tell you that most of my friends have no clue about RAM. Obviously not a representative sample but it's just my personal experience.
512 GB of ram is barely sufficient.
=P
Honestly , I have to agree. I am almost 40 and was at the beginning stage of the "PC" and the computer classes in school. I saw the evolution of the PC from a luxury item that very few had to something closer to television which wasowned by the masses....And it all changed.
-Not just the knowledge base but also the games and the programs which were dumbed down for the masses who would be the largest user base.
I think the PC knowledge (what was taught in school)peaked around 2004 and has been going downhill ever since. The most recent generation knows very little about computers while the group just slightly older than therm seem to be VERY well informed.
512 GB of ram is barely sufficient... on which planet?
While i get by just fine with just 8 GB, admittedly its DDR2, i also have a GPU with 2 GB of GDDR5, okay so my ram is probably the bottleneck at the moment, but it works fine, even if its not utilising its full potential.
I think the most ironic statement is about the level of PC knowledge going downhill, all things considered. I think the confusion here exists between types of memory, and in this case, Ram or working memory, and storage memory that you have in a Hard Drive or SSD, and for a HD 512 GB would be 'barely sufficient'. But i don't agree that PC knowledge is going downhill really, just look at 2013/2014, in terms of PC sales, actual units moved were in steep decline, no doubt due to the Win 8 effect, but in terms of actual hardware, it was a different picture entirely, people are far more comfortable with self upgrading now than ever before, and replacing Ram and HD's for that matter is a piece of cake, as is replacing an aging GPU for a newer version, and yet those are often the parts that have the most effect in any upgrade. I think the fact that hardware sales remained so high is because the overall level of PC 'knowledge' has increased that much, most PC users either have it themselves, or they have a close friend or relative that does, so upgrading is no longer a specialist option.
It actually amazes me that people who are in younger generations, lets say 30 and under, that don't know how computers work at a basic level.
The newest iPad generation knows less about PC than previous generations who grew up with computers.
Most ppl can't explain how a pointer works in memory, most can't explain how a memory stack and heap works. Even though most ppl know what RAM is, they don't know anything about how it works.
Most ppl who grew up with PC instead of iPads know how RAM works, since they taught ppl in most high schools, nowadays, they don't teach that anymore, they teach kids how their iPad works.
Not sure to which generation you are referring to when you say grew up with PCs but I can tell you that more poeple than not don't know how RAM works. A lot of people who "grew up" with PCS 30+ don't even know the difference between GPU, CPU, RAM, Hard Drive. It's so retarded when someone asks me is this computer with 512 GB RAM fast enough?
I am in my early 20s and I can tell you that most of my friends have no clue about RAM. Obviously not a representative sample but it's just my personal experience.
512 GB of ram is barely sufficient.
=P
Honestly , I have to agree. I am almost 40 and was at the beginning stage of the "PC" and the computer classes in school. I saw the evolution of the PC from a luxury item that very few had to something closer to television which wasowned by the masses....And it all changed.
-Not just the knowledge base but also the games and the programs which were dumbed down for the masses who would be the largest user base.
I think the PC knowledge (what was taught in school)peaked around 2004 and has been going downhill ever since. The most recent generation knows very little about computers while the group just slightly older than therm seem to be VERY well informed.
512 GB of ram is barely sufficient... on which planet?
While i get by just fine with just 8 GB, admittedly its DDR2, i also have a GPU with 2 GB of GDDR5, okay so my ram is probably the bottleneck at the moment, but it works fine, even if its not utilising its full potential.
I think the most ironic statement is about the level of PC knowledge going downhill, all things considered. I think the confusion here exists between types of memory, and in this case, Ram or working memory, and storage memory that you have in a Hard Drive or SSD, and for a HD 512 GB would be 'barely sufficient'. But i don't agree that PC knowledge is going downhill really, just look at 2013/2014, in terms of PC sales, actual units moved were in steep decline, no doubt due to the Win 8 effect, but in terms of actual hardware, it was a different picture entirely, people are far more comfortable with self upgrading now than ever before, and replacing Ram and HD's for that matter is a piece of cake, as is replacing an aging GPU for a newer version, and yet those are often the parts that have the most effect in any upgrade. I think the fact that hardware sales remained so high is because the overall level of PC 'knowledge' has increased that much, most PC users either have it themselves, or they have a close friend or relative that does, so upgrading is no longer a specialist option.
Just because PC sales have gone up and more people use tech devices doesn't mean they have a basic working knowledge of how they operate. People are lazy, they don't have any curiousity and don't want to learn about something they're not forced to. All they care about is if it works and what it does for them. Just because someone knows they have 8gb of ram doesn't mean they have the slightest clue about what ram does and how it affects the performance of their computer.
Just like the OP. He attributed the performance gains to Windows 7, when the reality was because he did a fresh install of ANY os, he removed all the pre loaded bloatware that was on the comp when he bought it from the store. Its called false equivocation. People commit it ALL THE TIME. They see some corrolary between something and use their confirmation bias to attribute X to Y when the reality is it might have been Z that was causing Y, or a combination of Z and D causing Y. Etc.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
You know, I'm ok with people not understanding how computers work.
My dad knows how to rebuild carburetors and transmissions. I don't know that I've ever driven a car that uses a carburetor, and I haven't driven a manual transmission in several years (although I do really want one in a Mustang GT). If anything goes wrong with my vehicle, I take it into a mechanic.
Years ago, if you drove a car a lot, it was important to understand a lot about how it worked. Today, not so much. I think computers fall in that general vein as well.
But in that same vein, if my Mechanic (or Dad) tells me that I should steer clear of Car Y, or get options XYZ - I generally listen, because he probably knows what he's talking about.
It actually amazes me that people who are in younger generations, lets say 30 and under, that don't know how computers work at a basic level.
The newest iPad generation knows less about PC than previous generations who grew up with computers.
Most ppl can't explain how a pointer works in memory, most can't explain how a memory stack and heap works. Even though most ppl know what RAM is, they don't know anything about how it works.
Most ppl who grew up with PC instead of iPads know how RAM works, since they taught ppl in most high schools, nowadays, they don't teach that anymore, they teach kids how their iPad works.
Not sure to which generation you are referring to when you say grew up with PCs but I can tell you that more poeple than not don't know how RAM works. A lot of people who "grew up" with PCS 30+ don't even know the difference between GPU, CPU, RAM, Hard Drive. It's so retarded when someone asks me is this computer with 512 GB RAM fast enough?
I am in my early 20s and I can tell you that most of my friends have no clue about RAM. Obviously not a representative sample but it's just my personal experience.
512 GB of ram is barely sufficient.
=P
Honestly , I have to agree. I am almost 40 and was at the beginning stage of the "PC" and the computer classes in school. I saw the evolution of the PC from a luxury item that very few had to something closer to television which wasowned by the masses....And it all changed.
-Not just the knowledge base but also the games and the programs which were dumbed down for the masses who would be the largest user base.
I think the PC knowledge (what was taught in school)peaked around 2004 and has been going downhill ever since. The most recent generation knows very little about computers while the group just slightly older than therm seem to be VERY well informed.
512 GB of ram is barely sufficient... on which planet?
While i get by just fine with just 8 GB, admittedly its DDR2, i also have a GPU with 2 GB of GDDR5, okay so my ram is probably the bottleneck at the moment, but it works fine, even if its not utilising its full potential.
I think the most ironic statement is about the level of PC knowledge going downhill, all things considered. I think the confusion here exists between types of memory, and in this case, Ram or working memory, and storage memory that you have in a Hard Drive or SSD, and for a HD 512 GB would be 'barely sufficient'. But i don't agree that PC knowledge is going downhill really, just look at 2013/2014, in terms of PC sales, actual units moved were in steep decline, no doubt due to the Win 8 effect, but in terms of actual hardware, it was a different picture entirely, people are far more comfortable with self upgrading now than ever before, and replacing Ram and HD's for that matter is a piece of cake, as is replacing an aging GPU for a newer version, and yet those are often the parts that have the most effect in any upgrade. I think the fact that hardware sales remained so high is because the overall level of PC 'knowledge' has increased that much, most PC users either have it themselves, or they have a close friend or relative that does, so upgrading is no longer a specialist option.
Just because PC sales have gone up and more people use tech devices doesn't mean they have a basic working knowledge of how they operate. People are lazy, they don't have any curiousity and don't want to learn about something they're not forced to. All they care about is if it works and what it does for them. Just because someone knows they have 8gb of ram doesn't mean they have the slightest clue about what ram does and how it affects the performance of their computer.
Just like the OP. He attributed the performance gains to Windows 7, when the reality was because he did a fresh install of ANY os, he removed all the pre loaded bloatware that was on the comp when he bought it from the store. Its called false equivocation. People commit it ALL THE TIME. They see some corrolary between something and use their confirmation bias to attribute X to Y when the reality is it might have been Z that was causing Y, or a combination of Z and D causing Y. Etc.
I'm glad you assume to know me and you haven't even read my posts in this thread. If you had then you'd know I was blaming the drivers or the setup from the manufacturer for the problem. I assumed this forum would be filled with people with common sense therefore I did not mention the bloatware which any dumbass would have immediately removed from their computer. And I TRIED TO INSTALL WINDOWS 8 from a clean disk but it WOULDNT VALIDATE because it DID NOT PICK UP THE BIOS KEY. So I just installed windows 7 and now the problems are all gone. So you think what you want and be all high and mighty on your stool. Sit on the phone with tech support for 2 hours trying to get a key and see how that works out.
You know, I'm ok with people not understanding how computers work.
My dad knows how to rebuild carburetors and transmissions. I don't know that I've ever driven a car that uses a carburetor, and I haven't driven a manual transmission in several years (although I do really want one in a Mustang GT). If anything goes wrong with my vehicle, I take it into a mechanic.
Years ago, if you drove a car a lot, it was important to understand a lot about how it worked. Today, not so much. I think computers fall in that general vein as well.
But in that same vein, if my Mechanic (or Dad) tells me that I should steer clear of Car Y, or get options XYZ - I generally listen, because he probably knows what he's talking about.
I guess i get where you're coming from, but what i'm more referring to is BASIC understanding.
Using the car example. It would be like not knowing that the engine burns the gasoline that you're putting into the tank. Like just yesterday i took my car in to get the tires rotated and balanced, and a lady was there complaining to one of the guys that she was told she had an exhaust leak, and wanted the guy to look for any big holes "in the bottom of the car". The guy told her there weren't any holes in the exhaust, and it was likely just a gasket or something along those lines, and the lady kept getting pissy and saying she wanted him to go check again for any holes under the car, etc.
Maybe its cus im more of a technical person, but i try to understand at a basic level how something i am using operates. Whether thats a stove, a vacuum cleaner, etc. I can't even tell you how many people ive met our general age that didnt know the difference between an LCD and an LED.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Comments
The issue Filmoret is described here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
"Correlation does not imply causation is a phrase used in science and statistics to emphasize that a correlation between two variables does not necessarily imply that one causes the other.["
The important issue here is that you are assuming your problems arose from having windows 8, and that installing windows 7 was the fix. The highly likely reality is there was something going on with your install of windows. That could have been a virus, a corrupted driver, a corrupted registry, a corrupted MFT, some program that was installed and running the background causing issues, etc etc.
You VERY likely could have done a clean install of windows 8/8.1 and acheived exactly the same results as installing windows 7.
Windows 7 and Windows 8 are 90%+ identical operating systems. They use the same kernel. Windows 8.1 had some major UI changes, and changes to allow it to use "apps" in the manner of a tablet using apps. Outside of that, and some other security/cloud stuff, they're the same OS. There is nothing fundamentally different between them that would account for the issues you were having.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
You didn't give concrete examples anywhere. Maybe you need to go look up the definition of details, and while it's not your job it sounds like you're doing it wrong.
This is very bad advice. In general, Windows 8 is fine. It had some issues when it first released and a lot of people hated the new Metro interface for productivity applications. The issues have been fixed so that Windows 8 runs as well as, or better than Windows 7 for almost all systems and applications. The Metro interface issue is easy to get around by installing a third-party Start Menu.
Windows 7 likely worked better for you because it got rid of bloatware that came with your Windows 8 installation. You haven't told us how you obtained the PC (new, used, etc.) and you haven't told us the specs. For all we know, it could have been a used computer with malware from the last user causing performance issues.
Instead of taking the time to properly identify the cause of your issues, you jumped to a conclusion based on a preconceived notion that Windows 8 is bad. You installed Windows 7 32-bit and your software-related problems went away. Your choice of a 32-bit OS in a modern computer further reinforces what several of us thinking: you don't know what you are doing with computers. It isn't possible for us to confirm that without knowing your specs, but I doubt you'll share them at this point for fear of embarrassment.
So, post your specs and how you obtained the computer. Otherwise, this entire thread is based on one person's prejudice against something they know little about. It is likely pointless though, unless you want to learn more about computers. You already spent (wasted) money on Windows 7 and it is too late to get that money back.
Pretty much this. Uh-oh, the check engine light in my car is on, better go buy last years model.
Ok I will stop and listen to see what is said or done. They are both brand new computers straight out of the box from BestBuy. They were unopened and brand spanking new not refurbished. The boxes were not tampered with and had original seal and packing.
First laptop that ran like crap was http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-Satellite-C855-S5107-processor-Multiformat/dp/B00BRYLOI0/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top/188-0614216-2235962#productDetails
The second laptop ran very well but had two issues http://www.samsung.com/us/support/owners/product/NP470R5E-K01UB
Now that you have the specs maybe there is a very good reason I had problems with both of these laptops brand spanking new out of the box.
Yup, you bought an off the shelf laptop from bestbuy, those come LOADED with bloatware. A fresh Win8 install would have netted the same results as your downgrade to Windows 7.
What 2 specific issues did you have?
Edit: Also, those are newer machines, odds are you'd have more issues with finding Win7 drivers than Win8, I'd suggest peeking at your device manager and seeing if there are any warnings (devices with yellow !)
The issue you're having, is the factory images are configured wrong, the laptops were configured wrong from the factory, and it's incredibly likely that the factory imaging process is/was screwed up as well.
To try and make a long story short, many PC manufacturers were so dead-set on keeping their special little garbage on the computers, and also not bright enough to figure out how to update them to actually support windows 8, they ended up shooting themselves in the knee with an arrow.
So, the fix:
-Get windows 8 x64 media (not 8.1, you'll need 8 to match the embedded key) If you have a friend in an IT department with access to MSDN or VL, they can get it for you.
-Burn the ISO to DVD, if you need/want usb, search for the instructions to make bootable win 8 USB via diskpart. Follow the instructions EXCEPT, format the USB with Fat32 (most instructions I've run across say NTFS, that is wrong, you'll need Fat32).
-Go into the bios, turn on UEFI, turn off legacy boot and turn on Secure boot. You should also check the storage, make sure the mode is IRRT (if there is no IRRT, you can use AHCI, but IRRT is better).
-Boot from your win 8 media, do the custom install option.
-When you hit the partition selection, delete all the partitions, and do new on the unallocated space to let windows set up the proper UEFI partitions. And then just install.
-After install, do windows updates (only load drivers that didn't load from media that are critical to updates, like network drivers). During updates, make sure to go to other and select drivers for install.
-Once all that's done, open up device manager to see what things didn't get picked up via windows update, and go hunting for those drivers (typically, I go to the manufacturer site to figure out what the devices are, then go to the device manufacturer for drivers first, if the manufacturer doesn't have it, then I use the laptop makers drivers).
And that should get everything working great. Windows 8 largest and best change, was the hefty UEFI integration. Most of the "just make it frigging faster!" options require UEFI mode.
Oh, and lastly, don't buy computers from best buy. The idiot squad opens them up and install more garbage on them, and charges extra to remove the garbage that they added... and they'll still leave the garbage the thing came with anyways.
I think you have a poor understanding of what drivers are, and Win 7 is more of a 'side grade' than a 'downgrade'
The first computer has a low-end processor for today's standards. It wouldn't take much bloatware to slow that thing to a crawl.
The second computer's specs are better. Without knowing your issues, it is impossible to guess how to fix it. I'm betting it wasn't related to Windows 8, directly. If you installed Windows 7 32-bit on the second computer, you just made half of your RAM unusable due to the 32-bit memory limit. It won't cost you anything (aside from a DVD to burn the iso) to change to a 64-bit OS, but you'll lose all of your installed programs.
I have a solid understanding, new hardware that is put into laptops after OEMs quit using WIndows 7 normally do not even have a Windows 7 driver at all. I tried pushing an HP laptop that came with Windows 8 to Windows 7 and it was a nightmare making every driver work. Seriously, look at all the replies, you bought laptops loaded with garbage and blamed the OS. A clean Win 8 install would have worked just the same as installing Win 7.
Seems so.
Why did you not just reformat with Windows 8.1?
(\ /) ?
( . .)
c('')('')
It actually amazes me that people who are in younger generations, lets say 30 and under, that don't know how computers work at a basic level. People have been bitching about bloatware for the better part of 15 years. The fact that you get people like this, who buy a comp loaded with bloatware, then complain about it to people who know what they're talking about, then don't actually listen to what those people are telling them, and instead argue with them... its just mind blowing.
If i go to a bunch of mechanical engineers and ask them why i might be having problems with my differential, i shut the hell up and listen, i don't snap get all indignant, etc.
Anyways, pretty much a dead thread, but, just felt like adding that little bit.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
The newest iPad generation knows less about PC than previous generations who grew up with computers.
Most ppl can't explain how a pointer works in memory, most can't explain how a memory stack and heap works. Even though most ppl know what RAM is, they don't know anything about how it works.
Most ppl who grew up with PC instead of iPads know how RAM works, since they taught ppl in most high schools, nowadays, they don't teach that anymore, they teach kids how their iPad works.
Not sure to which generation you are referring to when you say grew up with PCs but I can tell you that more poeple than not don't know how RAM works. A lot of people who "grew up" with PCS 30+ don't even know the difference between GPU, CPU, RAM, Hard Drive. It's so retarded when someone asks me is this computer with 512 GB RAM fast enough?
I am in my early 20s and I can tell you that most of my friends have no clue about RAM. Obviously not a representative sample but it's just my personal experience.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
512 GB of ram is barely sufficient.
=P
Honestly , I have to agree. I am almost 40 and was at the beginning stage of the "PC" and the computer classes in school. I saw the evolution of the PC from a luxury item that very few had to something closer to television which wasowned by the masses....And it all changed.
-Not just the knowledge base but also the games and the programs which were dumbed down for the masses who would be the largest user base.
I think the PC knowledge (what was taught in school)peaked around 2004 and has been going downhill ever since. The most recent generation knows very little about computers while the group just slightly older than therm seem to be VERY well informed.
512 GB of ram is barely sufficient... on which planet?
While i get by just fine with just 8 GB, admittedly its DDR2, i also have a GPU with 2 GB of GDDR5, okay so my ram is probably the bottleneck at the moment, but it works fine, even if its not utilising its full potential.
I think the most ironic statement is about the level of PC knowledge going downhill, all things considered. I think the confusion here exists between types of memory, and in this case, Ram or working memory, and storage memory that you have in a Hard Drive or SSD, and for a HD 512 GB would be 'barely sufficient'. But i don't agree that PC knowledge is going downhill really, just look at 2013/2014, in terms of PC sales, actual units moved were in steep decline, no doubt due to the Win 8 effect, but in terms of actual hardware, it was a different picture entirely, people are far more comfortable with self upgrading now than ever before, and replacing Ram and HD's for that matter is a piece of cake, as is replacing an aging GPU for a newer version, and yet those are often the parts that have the most effect in any upgrade. I think the fact that hardware sales remained so high is because the overall level of PC 'knowledge' has increased that much, most PC users either have it themselves, or they have a close friend or relative that does, so upgrading is no longer a specialist option.
Just because PC sales have gone up and more people use tech devices doesn't mean they have a basic working knowledge of how they operate. People are lazy, they don't have any curiousity and don't want to learn about something they're not forced to. All they care about is if it works and what it does for them. Just because someone knows they have 8gb of ram doesn't mean they have the slightest clue about what ram does and how it affects the performance of their computer.
Just like the OP. He attributed the performance gains to Windows 7, when the reality was because he did a fresh install of ANY os, he removed all the pre loaded bloatware that was on the comp when he bought it from the store. Its called false equivocation. People commit it ALL THE TIME. They see some corrolary between something and use their confirmation bias to attribute X to Y when the reality is it might have been Z that was causing Y, or a combination of Z and D causing Y. Etc.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
You know, I'm ok with people not understanding how computers work.
My dad knows how to rebuild carburetors and transmissions. I don't know that I've ever driven a car that uses a carburetor, and I haven't driven a manual transmission in several years (although I do really want one in a Mustang GT). If anything goes wrong with my vehicle, I take it into a mechanic.
Years ago, if you drove a car a lot, it was important to understand a lot about how it worked. Today, not so much. I think computers fall in that general vein as well.
But in that same vein, if my Mechanic (or Dad) tells me that I should steer clear of Car Y, or get options XYZ - I generally listen, because he probably knows what he's talking about.
I'm glad you assume to know me and you haven't even read my posts in this thread. If you had then you'd know I was blaming the drivers or the setup from the manufacturer for the problem. I assumed this forum would be filled with people with common sense therefore I did not mention the bloatware which any dumbass would have immediately removed from their computer. And I TRIED TO INSTALL WINDOWS 8 from a clean disk but it WOULDNT VALIDATE because it DID NOT PICK UP THE BIOS KEY. So I just installed windows 7 and now the problems are all gone. So you think what you want and be all high and mighty on your stool. Sit on the phone with tech support for 2 hours trying to get a key and see how that works out.
I guess i get where you're coming from, but what i'm more referring to is BASIC understanding.
Using the car example. It would be like not knowing that the engine burns the gasoline that you're putting into the tank. Like just yesterday i took my car in to get the tires rotated and balanced, and a lady was there complaining to one of the guys that she was told she had an exhaust leak, and wanted the guy to look for any big holes "in the bottom of the car". The guy told her there weren't any holes in the exhaust, and it was likely just a gasket or something along those lines, and the lady kept getting pissy and saying she wanted him to go check again for any holes under the car, etc.
Maybe its cus im more of a technical person, but i try to understand at a basic level how something i am using operates. Whether thats a stove, a vacuum cleaner, etc. I can't even tell you how many people ive met our general age that didnt know the difference between an LCD and an LED.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche