Originally posted by NightHaveN WOW combat wasn't better at least in terms of mechanics.
The responsiveness during combat, and the fluid animations were top notch.
In animation I found only Swtor, GW2, and Wildstar at WOW level, and in responsiveness only Wildstar and GW2 a close second. Swtor was in GW2 level imo up to patch 3.0. They screw something that is lagging now.
And FFXIV, try it a couple of days, and what was my experience: panties from level one, 70+ of the quest were delivery with most items were given, and a global 2 second cool down. What a crap.
You might not like FFXIV;ARR but lots do, its one of the few remaining successful P2P games, and its still growing, it is also one of the few games to successfully include both PC and Console players on the same servers, and at peak times there is still login queues, the great thing is that no matter what level you are, there is very little in the way of wait times to do dungeons, not only that but party play is well supported throughout not only the leveling experience, but also at end game, which does take time to get to, it also has a diverse set of character classes, of which you are not limited to just one.
As for global cool downs, if you don't like games with them in, then FPS's are ----> way.
People riding long hype-trains, verbally fighting over those two games.
Wildstar, the supposed WoW-killer, would implement exciting new features and be the next big thing. "Casual ESO does not stand a chance against the hardcore Wildstar", thousands of fans would scream. I wonder how many are still online in that game.. We don't even get news about it anymore. Last I heard was that most hardcore guilds were back to their old games within a couple of months after release.
ESO, promising immersion, promising fair treatment to both the PC and console versions. Giving false hopes to both the single-player and MMO crowds. Breaking every promise, they did actually make the PC subscribers pay the consoles' beta testing. They made their loyal fanbase serve the free-loading masses.
I was at the debate then. I supported ESO.
And there is nothing that can wake you up like a "F2P Trolls and Haters were correct" kind of slap.
So what did I gain by supporting an unfinished product I had not yet tried?
Lesson learned, at least for me.
So you learned a lesson. That's good.
Let's see how many other hype trains the is....without looking there is Camelot Unchained, Crowfall (new entry to the hype), Everquest Next, Star Citizan. I am not saying you will buy into the hype, but it doesn't stop. As each of these games get closer & closer to release the hype is just going to explode...again.
No, I learned my lesson a few years ago. Sure I look forward to games coming out but I stop short of jumping on the hype train. All it gets you is disappointment.
where the hell were you during the Darkfall 1 hype train
or the Warhammer Hype train,
or the Gw2 hype train
or the Archeage hype train
or the Aion hype train
or the SWTOR hype train
huh?!?!?!?
you people keep saying you LLEEAARRNNEEDD A LESSON
BUT YOU KEEP MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES DAMNIT!
i risk my account getting banned here for years trying to expose these overhyped MMOs so people wouldn't get mislead by bull shit marketing, and buying into the bull shit,
and each and every single time somebody comes with a post like this about learning a lesson, but then a year later they doing the same damn thing!!!!
iam done. I have to let you people make your own mistakes and get taken advantage of. Because I am tired of this!
Finally figured out that some things people must learn by themselves did you?
Guess you could even say lesson learned!
My guess is No. He'll be back with the same threads/polls like always.
I vaguely remember getting into an argument with him about ESO. He would argue with 2+2=4 if for whatever reason it didn't line up with his way of thinking.
Also... for the record. ESO is not going F2P. It's going B2P - like Guild Wars 2. You still have to purchase the game. It's still a dick move, though.
Except it isn't, the only difference between SW;TOR, Archeage and ESO is that ESO will also have a box price, other than that it will be a F2P/P2P hybrid, more than likely before too long the box price will also be removed, probably within the next 3 - 4 months.
Speculation based on nothing.
Anytime someone tries to say GW2 is F2P, everyone loses their shit because they have to sepcify "It's B2P." When in reality, the only difference between it and any F2P game is that you have to buy the box. Apparently, that's enough of a difference to warrant specificity.
And in the spirit of that - ESO is NOT going F2P. It's going B2P. You have to buy the box. But you don't have to pay a subscription. It will essentially take on GW2's business model. And given that game's success, there is no reason to assume that ESO will have to drop its box price.
Gw2 in contrast to F2P has *NO* subscription fee whatsoever. No subscription fee that boosts your progress or lock content away from you. You don't have to pay a sub to get all your bags.
And yes in Gw2 EVERYTHING is obtainable through in-game means. People are too narrow-thinking and only think how someone would cough up few bucks and have tons of gold. There is however a gold to cash shop currency conversion too. People claim that Gw2 locks your bagss behind a paywall ... that paywall si around 20g last time i checked..which can be farmed casually in 2-3 days.
So therefore, it is, in fact, a B2P. There are no additional fees you have to pay. However I assume it would be mandatory to subscribe for TESO to be competitive, so yeah ... that is a bit of F2P crap. We'll see where this is going.
Not picking on you because what we like is our own, but for me WoW isn't the baseline I compare other games to, especially not the combat. WoW combat isn't better than any other tab-target rng based system. TOR, EQ2, LotRO, and Rift all have combat that is as good or better than WoW.
For action combat I compare it to Neverwinter and Tera. Those have the best combat of any MMO I've played. I haven't played ESO long enough to get a great feel for it and I don't think it's better than those, but it's fun.
I don't think of Wildstar or ESO or any other game out right now a second-best to WoW. WoW is definitely more popular, much like Justin Bieber, but I don't think Bieber makes better music than my favorite musicians either.
The reason why WoW can mandate a sub is that it has the mass and inertia of broad appeal. Studios like Carbine, ZMO, Turbine, SoE or most others don't have that same whitewash. Subs are for mass appeal or very niche games that don't have the same financial pressure as most MMOs have.
None of the other games you mention have the combination of crisp controls and well-tuned rotations that make WOW combat better. And RNG only has very limited influence so not sure why you're even bringing that up.
Neither Neverwinter nor TERA's combat systems felt particularly rewarding of skill and reaction so I felt their action systems were rather dull overall.
Popularity doesn't matter at all to me as long as there's one filled server (which all these games have.) What matters is how much combat rewards skillful play (and therefore maintains my interest.) And while ToR and RIFT came pretty close, the rest of the games you mentioned just lack the deep rotations of WOW.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Originally posted by Scot ESO may not have lived up to the hype, but what MMO does? It is a fine game, the only fiasco is that players believe any game can walk on water.
"lived up" is subjective.
To me, marvel heroes live up to its hype. I get exactly what was promised ... a diablo-ish game that allows me to play marvel characters with some mmo elements.
And not only that, they expand their roster, and now have more marvel characters to play than any previous games (mmo or not).
Originally posted by NightHaveN I don't recall Zenimax advertising TESO as a WOW killer. There will be no WOW killer. You can do some things different and aim for those that don't want or like WOW.
WOW is too big, and well polished to be beaten in all areas by any starting project.
Players need to learn that.
Developers and Publishers too.
I'm sure devs and publishers know that.
These seemingly WoW audience oriented games and campaigns are most likely mainly aimed at the people that have already left WoW or are bored with it and considering to leave soon / if something similar comes along.
They are not trying to go head to head, they are picking up the scraps.
And I don't mean that negatively. WoW is so big that even just the people who are already done with it are a big & specific enough target audience to aim at.
where the hell were you during the Darkfall 1 hype train
or the Warhammer Hype train,
or the Gw2 hype train
or the Archeage hype train
or the Aion hype train
or the SWTOR hype train
huh?!?!?!?
you people keep saying you LLEEAARRNNEEDD A LESSON
BUT YOU KEEP MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES DAMNIT!
i risk my account getting banned here for years trying to expose these overhyped MMOs so people wouldn't get mislead by bull shit marketing, and buying into the bull shit,
and each and every single time somebody comes with a post like this about learning a lesson, but then a year later they doing the same damn thing!!!!
iam done. I have to let you people make your own mistakes and get taken advantage of. Because I am tired of this!
Finally figured out that some things people must learn by themselves did you?
Guess you could even say lesson learned!
My guess is No. He'll be back with the same threads/polls like always.
I vaguely remember getting into an argument with him about ESO. He would argue with 2+2=4 if for whatever reason it didn't line up with his way of thinking.
Also... for the record. ESO is not going F2P. It's going B2P - like Guild Wars 2. You still have to purchase the game. It's still a dick move, though.
Except it isn't, the only difference between SW;TOR, Archeage and ESO is that ESO will also have a box price, other than that it will be a F2P/P2P hybrid, more than likely before too long the box price will also be removed, probably within the next 3 - 4 months.
Speculation based on nothing.
Anytime someone tries to say GW2 is F2P, everyone loses their shit because they have to sepcify "It's B2P." When in reality, the only difference between it and any F2P game is that you have to buy the box. Apparently, that's enough of a difference to warrant specificity.
And in the spirit of that - ESO is NOT going F2P. It's going B2P. You have to buy the box. But you don't have to pay a subscription. It will essentially take on GW2's business model. And given that game's success, there is no reason to assume that ESO will have to drop its box price.
Gw2 in contrast to F2P has *NO* subscription fee whatsoever. No subscription fee that boosts your progress or lock content away from you. You don't have to pay a sub to get all your bags.
And yes in Gw2 EVERYTHING is obtainable through in-game means. People are too narrow-thinking and only think how someone would cough up few bucks and have tons of gold. There is however a gold to cash shop currency conversion too. People claim that Gw2 locks your bagss behind a paywall ... that paywall si around 20g last time i checked..which can be farmed casually in 2-3 days.
So therefore, it is, in fact, a B2P. There are no additional fees you have to pay. However I assume it would be mandatory to subscribe for TESO to be competitive, so yeah ... that is a bit of F2P crap. We'll see where this is going.
...
You're not understanding things very well.
"Gw2 in contrast to F2P has *NO* subscription fee whatsoever."
F2P has no subscription fee in the first place. So I don't know how you can contrast a F2P game with a B2P game, since neither one of them has a subscription to compare against. They're both the same thing. The only difference between a B2P game and a F2P game is that a B2P game requires you to buy the game. In a F2P game... you don't have to buy the game. Either way - they both have the exact same kinds of Cash Shops - complete with play gating.
And I'm sorry to break it to you... but there is plenty of play gating in GW2. Unless you want to devote a very unrealistic amount of time grinding and doing things over and over again... there is a play gate. Don't get me wrong - I understand there is going to be a grind in any MMO. But there is a typical MMO grind... and then there is a Cash Shop play gating grind. And GW2 definitely has plenty of Cash Shop play gating.
Once ESO goes B2P, there won't BE a subscription. So I don't even know what the hell you're talking about when you say you might need to subscribe to stay competitive.
To my knowledge, the only game that has a Cash Shop and still practically forces you to subscribe, is SWTOR. Anyone who participates in that is just falling for the biggest scam there ever was. ESO won't be doing that as far as I am aware. So, unless you can provide me with a link that shows some information that it will continue to have an option subscription fee... I don't know what else to say.
where the hell were you during the Darkfall 1 hype train
or the Warhammer Hype train,
or the Gw2 hype train
or the Archeage hype train
or the Aion hype train
or the SWTOR hype train
huh?!?!?!?
you people keep saying you LLEEAARRNNEEDD A LESSON
BUT YOU KEEP MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES DAMNIT!
i risk my account getting banned here for years trying to expose these overhyped MMOs so people wouldn't get mislead by bull shit marketing, and buying into the bull shit,
and each and every single time somebody comes with a post like this about learning a lesson, but then a year later they doing the same damn thing!!!!
iam done. I have to let you people make your own mistakes and get taken advantage of. Because I am tired of this!
Well some times it takes a big kick to the head. I sure the heck hope I learned my lesson. Thanks for the kick and OH YOU ARE RIGHT!
Originally posted by Kaladin Originally posted by zzaxOriginally posted by ESSKAOriginally posted by MMOExposedLesson learned?LESSON LEARNED!!!!?!?!?!where the hell were you during the Darkfall 1 hype trainor the Warhammer Hype train,or the Gw2 hype trainor the Archeage hype trainor the Aion hype trainor the SWTOR hype trainhuh?!?!?!?you people keep saying you LLEEAARRNNEEDD A LESSON BUT YOU KEEP MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES DAMNIT!i risk my account getting banned here for years trying to expose these overhyped MMOs so people wouldn't get mislead by bull shit marketing, and buying into the bull shit, and each and every single time somebody comes with a post like this about learning a lesson, but then a year later they doing the same damn thing!!!!iam done. I have to let you people make your own mistakes and get taken advantage of. Because I am tired of this!
(...) people should go do their own research on a game before listening to anyone on this website.Some people dont have time to do detailed research on every "next-fail-wannabe" MMO on the market. I really appreciate someone else doing it for me - saves me money and time.Nothing wrong with this approach in my opinion. as long as you are certain that you share similar interests with the reviewer.
which is impossible unless you know them personally. if someone is to come to this website and make decisions to buy a game or not based on what people here say about it, they may as well quit playing mmo's all together because they all get bashed here......every single one of them.
the only ones that do not are the really bad ones that nobody cares about or the low budget indie games, which most of them fail much harder than the rest.
where the hell were you during the Darkfall 1 hype train
or the Warhammer Hype train,
or the Gw2 hype train
or the Archeage hype train
or the Aion hype train
or the SWTOR hype train
huh?!?!?!?
you people keep saying you LLEEAARRNNEEDD A LESSON
BUT YOU KEEP MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES DAMNIT!
i risk my account getting banned here for years trying to expose these overhyped MMOs so people wouldn't get mislead by bull shit marketing, and buying into the bull shit,
and each and every single time somebody comes with a post like this about learning a lesson, but then a year later they doing the same damn thing!!!!
iam done. I have to let you people make your own mistakes and get taken advantage of. Because I am tired of this!
People get mislead becasue they want to be. Each and every one of those games had the signs that they were overhyped and could not deliver the full experience the community collectively expected.
I really don't care about who chooses to get mislead.
What I care about are the one doing the misleading. The developers and publishers. All I want is to call them out on thier exagerations and hold them to thier words. Of course, I am in the minority when I do this, but I don't care, I have earned a cynnical reputation on this site but it is becasue I want to see the genre improved and companies actually give a shit about the products they release. And instead we get H1Z1, A hyped up regurgitation of something that's already been done in order to make a quick buck to extend financing for other projects. I dare say no one at SOE really gives a shit about the long term viability of that game, they want to wring it out now so they can perfect and repeat the same exact process on EQN. And anyone who doesn't think EQN will be managed, developed and rushed out with the same greedy monetization methods SOE "released" H1Z1 with is deluding themselves.
But this is where I see the biggest problems with what is going on in these games. And I don't care who's cheerios I pee in, I'll say what I think needs to be said.
When Trion announced that they would be looking into the Labor system's inherent P2W mechanics, they were being vague and non-committal. Sure sign they knew it was P2W. Yet everyone took that replay as Gospel that Trion was going to re-work that cash shop so t he game wasn't P2W. Even when YouTubers proved it was going to be P2W in the form Trion had intended to release, so many here rushed to the game's defense with all kinds of made up references "proving" the game wasn't P2W.
It's P2W just like most games with a cash shop out there.
Now we have StarCitizen promising to deliver the best space sim experience. Everything about this game in pre development suggest it will be P2W, but the developer promises it won't be, yet continues to publish a fully functional cash shop with no game. Really people? When this game releases and it's another rover the top P2W whaling fest, dominated by the "Backers" who contributed the most, what are you going to do, go back to CR who has all your money now and say "But, you promised.......!" with tears in your eyes?
We now have Ralph Koster swinging words around like "SWG Crafting" and we'll watch that hype train go for a long loop around the tracks before he even puts any code on a computer.
Why? Why does this happen over and over and over?
I see two reasons.
1. Gamers are far too impatient.
2. Gamers will believe anything they are told, not because they are gullible, but because they want to believe in the "promise" which developers love to prey on.
I think we have hashed and rehashed this. I tend to steer my ship away from those rocks of folly. New games/mmos are quite exciting and it is natural to build up that excitement, but do we not have some responsibility as experience gamers to balance our enthusiasm with a bit of wisdom?
Yes, I think we should "open our eyes" wide open to what happened in 2014. But we should also take a look at the actions and reactions that have happened all the way back to 2006/2007, when the same hype train went slamming through about Vanguard. Remember those days?
ESO/Wildstar didn't measure up to their expectations. What have the studios learned? What are they doing to correct their listing ships? Most importantly, what have we, the consumers learned if anything about "bandwagon hype"?
Unfortunately, I am certain there will be other mmos that will receive way too much in accolades, before they are released. The cycle continues, partly because of greedy studios and partly because of a rabid bunch of gaming enthusiasts bent on seeing WoW die and thousand deaths...
Eyes open, think freely
Alyn
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
I think we have hashed and rehashed this. I tend to steer my ship away from those rocks of folly. New games/mmos are quite exciting and it is natural to build up that excitement, but do we not have some responsibility as experience gamers to balance our enthusiasm with a bit of wisdom?
Yes, I think we should "open our eyes" wide open to what happened in 2014. But we should also take a look at the actions and reactions that have happened all the way back to 2006/2007, when the same hype train went slamming through about Vanguard. Remember those days?
ESO/Wildstar didn't measure up to their expectations. What have the studios learned? What are they doing to correct their listing ships? Most importantly, what have we, the consumers learned if anything about "bandwagon hype"?
Unfortunately, I am certain there will be other mmos that will receive way too much in accolades, before they are released. The cycle continues, partly because of greedy studios and partly because of a rabid bunch of gaming enthusiasts bent on seeing WoW die and thousand deaths...
Eyes open, think freely
Alyn
There is one WoW killer out there.
It's been owned and operated by Blizzard for the last 10 years.
People riding long hype-trains, verbally fighting over those two games.
Wildstar, the supposed WoW-killer, would implement exciting new features and be the next big thing. "Casual ESO does not stand a chance against the hardcore Wildstar", thousands of fans would scream. I wonder how many are still online in that game.. We don't even get news about it anymore. Last I heard was that most hardcore guilds were back to their old games within a couple of months after release.
ESO, promising immersion, promising fair treatment to both the PC and console versions. Giving false hopes to both the single-player and MMO crowds. Breaking every promise, they did actually make the PC subscribers pay the consoles' beta testing. They made their loyal fanbase serve the free-loading masses.
I was at the debate then. I supported ESO.
And there is nothing that can wake you up like a "F2P Trolls and Haters were correct" kind of slap.
So what did I gain by supporting an unfinished product I had not yet tried?
Lesson learned, at least for me.
and again (seriously, getting quite tired of saying that AGAIN AND AGAIN).
the only persons who called it a "WoW killer" were to fans, the community.
so could you PLEASE stop making those threads every year?
it's good you learned, people did before you, people will go after you again. but why do we need a "i was so cheated by the devs!" each year?
it's what you hear. not what they say. seriously.
and for the record, all this will start again on EVERY new mmo release, because PEOPLE always expect a bloody WoW killer, but you cannot kill that which has no life, but only 10 million players.
name ONE game that EVER got killed and came from blizzard - and that was NOT killed by blizz itself, ty and see ya on our next "oh look another dead WoW killer" post
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
where the hell were you during the Darkfall 1 hype train
or the Warhammer Hype train,
or the Gw2 hype train
or the Archeage hype train
or the Aion hype train
or the SWTOR hype train
huh?!?!?!?
you people keep saying you LLEEAARRNNEEDD A LESSON
BUT YOU KEEP MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES DAMNIT!
i risk my account getting banned here for years trying to expose these overhyped MMOs so people wouldn't get mislead by bull shit marketing, and buying into the bull shit,
and each and every single time somebody comes with a post like this about learning a lesson, but then a year later they doing the same damn thing!!!!
iam done. I have to let you people make your own mistakes and get taken advantage of. Because I am tired of this!
Are you solely on here to just try and attempt to convince posters to not play any mmo? Do you even like mmos? What mmo's have you played and would be worthy? Are you an old school mmo gamer pre-2004 and can't stand the direction of the genre?
They've been devoted to telling people not to have fun playing MMOs for YEARS. That's dedication. /s
I'm an old school mmo gamer pre-2000 and personally I've enjoyed every major MMO release. Some more than others, but I've never regretted buying a game, paying a sub for a game, or playing a free game. I don't mind the direction the genre is going in at all. Compared to when there was just UO and EQ there is a HUGE amount of variety in play styles available now.
I guess some people are just able to find joy in the things they do more than others. I wish I could be a fly on the wall of some of the people that complain how horrible games are. I'm pretty sure very few of them loaded the game and from the moment they entered character creation they grumbled and mumbled about how they hate the game they're playing or how little fun they had as they played it for many hours.
Pay $20 for a couple hours at the movies and it's no big deal. Pay $60 for 20+ hours (or hundreds, or thousands) of fun in an MMO and complain that they got robbed. It just never made sense to me.
I think we have hashed and rehashed this. I tend to steer my ship away from those rocks of folly. New games/mmos are quite exciting and it is natural to build up that excitement, but do we not have some responsibility as experience gamers to balance our enthusiasm with a bit of wisdom?
Yes, I think we should "open our eyes" wide open to what happened in 2014. But we should also take a look at the actions and reactions that have happened all the way back to 2006/2007, when the same hype train went slamming through about Vanguard. Remember those days?
ESO/Wildstar didn't measure up to their expectations. What have the studios learned? What are they doing to correct their listing ships? Most importantly, what have we, the consumers learned if anything about "bandwagon hype"?
Unfortunately, I am certain there will be other mmos that will receive way too much in accolades, before they are released. The cycle continues, partly because of greedy studios and partly because of a rabid bunch of gaming enthusiasts bent on seeing WoW die and thousand deaths...
Eyes open, think freely
Alyn
There is one WoW killer out there.
It's been owned and operated by Blizzard for the last 10 years.
True that and we have been saying the "only game that will kill WoW is WoW" for how long now?
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
2. Gamers will believe anything they are told, not because they are gullible, but because they want to believe in the "promise" which developers love to prey on."
I raise my hand...guilty as charged, Sir Geezer
Yes, my faith in SoE is an example of these points. Thanks Geezer for yet another wise post on this forum, sir!
/bows humbily
Alyn
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
Comments
ESO fiasko? lol its best game ever
You might not like FFXIV;ARR but lots do, its one of the few remaining successful P2P games, and its still growing, it is also one of the few games to successfully include both PC and Console players on the same servers, and at peak times there is still login queues, the great thing is that no matter what level you are, there is very little in the way of wait times to do dungeons, not only that but party play is well supported throughout not only the leveling experience, but also at end game, which does take time to get to, it also has a diverse set of character classes, of which you are not limited to just one.
As for global cool downs, if you don't like games with them in, then FPS's are ----> way.
So you learned a lesson. That's good.
Let's see how many other hype trains the is....without looking there is Camelot Unchained, Crowfall (new entry to the hype), Everquest Next, Star Citizan. I am not saying you will buy into the hype, but it doesn't stop. As each of these games get closer & closer to release the hype is just going to explode...again.
No, I learned my lesson a few years ago. Sure I look forward to games coming out but I stop short of jumping on the hype train. All it gets you is disappointment.
I took a break for a few months simply due to the PvP problems they admit to having.
I always intended to return, but I wasn't going to pay anymore when my entire guild couldn't play due to the lag.
However, it really does feel like PC players paid to beta test
The issue was they wanted skyrim online. Even if Zos delivers they will find something to whine about.Lessons learned? People are hard to please and mmo crowd are just rotten.
Gw2 in contrast to F2P has *NO* subscription fee whatsoever. No subscription fee that boosts your progress or lock content away from you. You don't have to pay a sub to get all your bags.
And yes in Gw2 EVERYTHING is obtainable through in-game means. People are too narrow-thinking and only think how someone would cough up few bucks and have tons of gold. There is however a gold to cash shop currency conversion too. People claim that Gw2 locks your bagss behind a paywall ... that paywall si around 20g last time i checked..which can be farmed casually in 2-3 days.
So therefore, it is, in fact, a B2P. There are no additional fees you have to pay. However I assume it would be mandatory to subscribe for TESO to be competitive, so yeah ... that is a bit of F2P crap. We'll see where this is going.
None of the other games you mention have the combination of crisp controls and well-tuned rotations that make WOW combat better. And RNG only has very limited influence so not sure why you're even bringing that up.
Neither Neverwinter nor TERA's combat systems felt particularly rewarding of skill and reaction so I felt their action systems were rather dull overall.
Popularity doesn't matter at all to me as long as there's one filled server (which all these games have.) What matters is how much combat rewards skillful play (and therefore maintains my interest.) And while ToR and RIFT came pretty close, the rest of the games you mentioned just lack the deep rotations of WOW.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Unless you are very, very new to the world of MMO's, then there's not much to "learn" from the unfolding of these two games' lifecycles.
It has served as another reinforcement to the central theme of all MMO's:
"Everything is subject to change"
I had fun once, it was terrible.
"lived up" is subjective.
To me, marvel heroes live up to its hype. I get exactly what was promised ... a diablo-ish game that allows me to play marvel characters with some mmo elements.
And not only that, they expand their roster, and now have more marvel characters to play than any previous games (mmo or not).
I'm sure devs and publishers know that.
These seemingly WoW audience oriented games and campaigns are most likely mainly aimed at the people that have already left WoW or are bored with it and considering to leave soon / if something similar comes along.
They are not trying to go head to head, they are picking up the scraps.
And I don't mean that negatively. WoW is so big that even just the people who are already done with it are a big & specific enough target audience to aim at.
...
You're not understanding things very well.
"Gw2 in contrast to F2P has *NO* subscription fee whatsoever."
F2P has no subscription fee in the first place. So I don't know how you can contrast a F2P game with a B2P game, since neither one of them has a subscription to compare against. They're both the same thing. The only difference between a B2P game and a F2P game is that a B2P game requires you to buy the game. In a F2P game... you don't have to buy the game. Either way - they both have the exact same kinds of Cash Shops - complete with play gating.
And I'm sorry to break it to you... but there is plenty of play gating in GW2. Unless you want to devote a very unrealistic amount of time grinding and doing things over and over again... there is a play gate. Don't get me wrong - I understand there is going to be a grind in any MMO. But there is a typical MMO grind... and then there is a Cash Shop play gating grind. And GW2 definitely has plenty of Cash Shop play gating.
Once ESO goes B2P, there won't BE a subscription. So I don't even know what the hell you're talking about when you say you might need to subscribe to stay competitive.
To my knowledge, the only game that has a Cash Shop and still practically forces you to subscribe, is SWTOR. Anyone who participates in that is just falling for the biggest scam there ever was. ESO won't be doing that as far as I am aware. So, unless you can provide me with a link that shows some information that it will continue to have an option subscription fee... I don't know what else to say.
I rather enjoy ESO.
I'm actually wondering when the naysayers will learn their lesson.
Well some times it takes a big kick to the head. I sure the heck hope I learned my lesson. Thanks for the kick and OH YOU ARE RIGHT!
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Some people dont have time to do detailed research on every "next-fail-wannabe" MMO on the market. I really appreciate someone else doing it for me - saves me money and time.
Nothing wrong with this approach in my opinion. as long as you are certain that you share similar interests with the reviewer.
which is impossible unless you know them personally. if someone is to come to this website and make decisions to buy a game or not based on what people here say about it, they may as well quit playing mmo's all together because they all get bashed here......every single one of them.
the only ones that do not are the really bad ones that nobody cares about or the low budget indie games, which most of them fail much harder than the rest.
People get mislead becasue they want to be. Each and every one of those games had the signs that they were overhyped and could not deliver the full experience the community collectively expected.
I really don't care about who chooses to get mislead.
What I care about are the one doing the misleading. The developers and publishers. All I want is to call them out on thier exagerations and hold them to thier words. Of course, I am in the minority when I do this, but I don't care, I have earned a cynnical reputation on this site but it is becasue I want to see the genre improved and companies actually give a shit about the products they release. And instead we get H1Z1, A hyped up regurgitation of something that's already been done in order to make a quick buck to extend financing for other projects. I dare say no one at SOE really gives a shit about the long term viability of that game, they want to wring it out now so they can perfect and repeat the same exact process on EQN. And anyone who doesn't think EQN will be managed, developed and rushed out with the same greedy monetization methods SOE "released" H1Z1 with is deluding themselves.
But this is where I see the biggest problems with what is going on in these games. And I don't care who's cheerios I pee in, I'll say what I think needs to be said.
When Trion announced that they would be looking into the Labor system's inherent P2W mechanics, they were being vague and non-committal. Sure sign they knew it was P2W. Yet everyone took that replay as Gospel that Trion was going to re-work that cash shop so t he game wasn't P2W. Even when YouTubers proved it was going to be P2W in the form Trion had intended to release, so many here rushed to the game's defense with all kinds of made up references "proving" the game wasn't P2W.
It's P2W just like most games with a cash shop out there.
Now we have StarCitizen promising to deliver the best space sim experience. Everything about this game in pre development suggest it will be P2W, but the developer promises it won't be, yet continues to publish a fully functional cash shop with no game. Really people? When this game releases and it's another rover the top P2W whaling fest, dominated by the "Backers" who contributed the most, what are you going to do, go back to CR who has all your money now and say "But, you promised.......!" with tears in your eyes?
We now have Ralph Koster swinging words around like "SWG Crafting" and we'll watch that hype train go for a long loop around the tracks before he even puts any code on a computer.
Why? Why does this happen over and over and over?
I see two reasons.
1. Gamers are far too impatient.
2. Gamers will believe anything they are told, not because they are gullible, but because they want to believe in the "promise" which developers love to prey on.
No mmo will ever "kill" WoW. Period!
I think we have hashed and rehashed this. I tend to steer my ship away from those rocks of folly. New games/mmos are quite exciting and it is natural to build up that excitement, but do we not have some responsibility as experience gamers to balance our enthusiasm with a bit of wisdom?
Yes, I think we should "open our eyes" wide open to what happened in 2014. But we should also take a look at the actions and reactions that have happened all the way back to 2006/2007, when the same hype train went slamming through about Vanguard. Remember those days?
ESO/Wildstar didn't measure up to their expectations. What have the studios learned? What are they doing to correct their listing ships? Most importantly, what have we, the consumers learned if anything about "bandwagon hype"?
Unfortunately, I am certain there will be other mmos that will receive way too much in accolades, before they are released. The cycle continues, partly because of greedy studios and partly because of a rabid bunch of gaming enthusiasts bent on seeing WoW die and thousand deaths...
Eyes open, think freely
Alyn
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
There is one WoW killer out there.
It's been owned and operated by Blizzard for the last 10 years.
and again (seriously, getting quite tired of saying that AGAIN AND AGAIN).
the only persons who called it a "WoW killer" were to fans, the community.
so could you PLEASE stop making those threads every year?
it's good you learned, people did before you, people will go after you again. but why do we need a "i was so cheated by the devs!" each year?
it's what you hear. not what they say. seriously.
and for the record, all this will start again on EVERY new mmo release, because PEOPLE always expect a bloody WoW killer, but you cannot kill that which has no life, but only 10 million players.
name ONE game that EVER got killed and came from blizzard - and that was NOT killed by blizz itself, ty and see ya on our next "oh look another dead WoW killer" post
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
They've been devoted to telling people not to have fun playing MMOs for YEARS. That's dedication. /s
I'm an old school mmo gamer pre-2000 and personally I've enjoyed every major MMO release. Some more than others, but I've never regretted buying a game, paying a sub for a game, or playing a free game. I don't mind the direction the genre is going in at all. Compared to when there was just UO and EQ there is a HUGE amount of variety in play styles available now.
I guess some people are just able to find joy in the things they do more than others. I wish I could be a fly on the wall of some of the people that complain how horrible games are. I'm pretty sure very few of them loaded the game and from the moment they entered character creation they grumbled and mumbled about how they hate the game they're playing or how little fun they had as they played it for many hours.
Pay $20 for a couple hours at the movies and it's no big deal. Pay $60 for 20+ hours (or hundreds, or thousands) of fun in an MMO and complain that they got robbed. It just never made sense to me.
True that and we have been saying the "only game that will kill WoW is WoW" for how long now?
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
"I see two reasons.
1. Gamers are far too impatient.
2. Gamers will believe anything they are told, not because they are gullible, but because they want to believe in the "promise" which developers love to prey on."
I raise my hand...guilty as charged, Sir Geezer
Yes, my faith in SoE is an example of these points. Thanks Geezer for yet another wise post on this forum, sir!
/bows humbily
Alyn
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
The lesson is easy.
DO NOT MAKE SUBSCRIPTION MMO'S, THEY ARE DEAD.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!