Well on one hand you have Raph Koster, the magician behind swg working on this game. But you also have Gordon Walton, the guy who made Trammel and basically ruined UO.
Cautiously optimistic would probably be the best bet here.
You mean the Trammel that stopped the hemorrhaging of subscriptions, allowed people to play as they wanted (and they voted with their feet, moving to the new servers), and lead to the peaks of player numbers in UO. That one?
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Originally posted by Arglebargle Originally posted by FoomerangWell on one hand you have Raph Koster, the magician behind swg working on this game. But you also have Gordon Walton, the guy who made Trammel and basically ruined UO.Cautiously optimistic would probably be the best bet here.
You mean the Trammel that stopped the hemorrhaging of subscriptions, allowed people to play as they wanted (and they voted with their feet, moving to the new servers), and lead to the peaks of player numbers in UO. That one?
Yep. The one even Walton himself admitted he sacrificed the soul of the game for more subs.
Yep. The one even Walton himself admitted he sacrificed the soul of the game for more subs.
Sounds like me made the smart move for the company, game, and fans as a whole. That's someone I'd want on the team, not someone willing to watch it all burn just because.
If Trammel had resulted in them instantly closing the doors, I'd say bad move, but it didn't.
Unfortunately, we can't always have our cake and eat it too. Luckily times have changed and it is much easier to find a decent sized group of players to keep a niche game a live.
I'm honestly shocked when I see how many people (millions) play individual F2P browser games and what not. Never heard of them, yet they are packed with players making the company money.
If these smaller companies can keep the costs down while producing a decent product, we shouldn't need for Trammels to come along to save the day. Allowing the original vision to remain and for devs to keep their word without bending to the will of $$$ or whatever.
Originally posted by XcomVic Then don't be? No one is asking you to. This game is what a lot of players over the years have been waiting for. I will be playing League of Legends until beta:)
If i had a nickle for every time someone says that for every new upcoming MMO i would be billionaire by now.
You seem to assume that devs moving from X game bring elements from that game to the game they are working with. It's just not true.
Only leaders can greatly affect the game. Devs can only program what their leader tells them to. Sure they can raise their opinion about certain aspects of the game but it's still up the the leaders to decide if those aspects get fixed or changed.
I agree, but it doesn't sound like they are trying to make Shadowbane 2 or UO + SWG + SB or whatever. The devs in this case were also leaders of previous games and or the minds behind some of the features that really made those games what they were, despite their shortcomings. Sounds like are taking what they've learned from the past 15+ years and trying to cook up something new, not simply copy crafting from SWG or whatever because people liked it. Time will tell, but comparing this team to some of the other AAA or indies out there is pretty night and day as far as past work and memorable features.
More like they haven't learned anything and are trying to recreate Shadowbane. SB was a great game in my opinion but in business sense it was terrible (since they had to close it down).
Well they stated that Crowfall will NOT be a Shadowbane 2.0.
They can say whatever they want. When 80% of design decisions come directly from SB it's SB2 for me.
They can say whatever they want. When 80% of design decisions come directly from SB it's SB2 for me.
Interesting when above you said "You seem to assume that devs moving from X game bring elements from that game to the game they are working with. It's just not true." I'm probably taking that out of context, but I think it still applies a bit.
What parts of SB were bad for business that appear to be in Crowfall at the Alpha stage?
Honestly not sure what your point of this thread was beyond you aren't able to wait. CF looks good/bad, don't care?
I'm pretty cautious about following another game that's not gonna appease any interests forever as well, if they say 2+ years we can expect 4 unless its some FTP early access fiasco. And than, no matter how well they make the game, direction for the income scheme could ruin the product anyway, which is the result of most experimental MMOs which attempt to attract new audiences.
No matter where the designers ambitions lie, some investor or producer/publisher could drive the monetization and even the related gameplay into the ground in an attempt to just cash in on the easily addicted. In a game which is touting depth on this level, I predict the rejection would be even greater than normal, because players who like infinite complexity are far more scrupulous.
But their specifically soliciting discussion and contribution on the design of the game, so there is a meaningful reason to reveal the game so early. In order for overall direction of the game to be impacted by the community, it has to be discussed before the foundation is set so they can attempt to fit it within the scope of the game.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
Originally posted by FoomerangWell on one hand you have Raph Koster, the magician behind swg working on this game. But you also have Gordon Walton, the guy who made Trammel and basically ruined UO.Cautiously optimistic would probably be the best bet here.
You mean the Trammel that stopped the hemorrhaging of subscriptions, allowed people to play as they wanted (and they voted with their feet, moving to the new servers), and lead to the peaks of player numbers in UO. That one?
Yep. The one even Walton himself admitted he sacrificed the soul of the game for more subs.
At the end of the day, more revenue is really the name of the game, and developers have to design for it, soul be damned.
Very few Devs will be like CCP and stick with very unpopular designs at the cost of greater subs.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Nanfoodle Waiting 2 years for an MMO is not long. I followed some MMOs for 4-6 years.
Hell, whats another 2 years? I've been waiting 2 years over and over again for the last 10 years, only to find fail after fail of buggy, themeparked, unfinished crap being released. I will probably be 50 by the time another good mmo comes out, but I suppose it will be a good one after a good 20 year wait, then again, things aren't looking good in the industry so we shall see.
SOE changes name to Daybreak games, cause dey break games.
They can say whatever they want. When 80% of design decisions come directly from SB it's SB2 for me.
Interesting when above you said "You seem to assume that devs moving from X game bring elements from that game to the game they are working with. It's just not true." I'm probably taking that out of context, but I think it still applies a bit.
What parts of SB were bad for business that appear to be in Crowfall at the Alpha stage?
Honestly not sure what your point of this thread was beyond you aren't able to wait. CF looks good/bad, don't care?
My point was that normal devs can't really do that "transfer" but leaders can.
All of those elements seem to be there already. Heavy PvP focus and heavy sandbox focus. 90% of MMORPGs are themeparks some even claim to be sandboxes but aren't. Being a pure sandbox game is enough to drive some players away. Same thing can be said about about heavy PvP focus.
Time will tell, but every bit of info they release is making it sound better to me. Going with the campaign design is pretty new territory for mmorpgs which is unlike previous games the devs worked on. 18 days to go.
When a game is good, we'll know it. I'm not buying into another Alpha or Beta or spending anymore money in a cash shop. If a game isn't backed by a sub and good player reviews after release, I'm not interested. I don't know why games are going PVP and being made for console gamers when the attention span is what, 3 months for most who prefer to play these kinds of games? Doesn't WoW, EQ2 and LOTRO mean anything? Or the growing amount of Emulated older MMORPG games, most of which are PVE. You'd think a game company would get the hint but apparently they do not.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
You seem to assume that devs moving from X game bring elements from that game to the game they are working with. It's just not true.
Only leaders can greatly affect the game. Devs can only program what their leader tells them to. Sure they can raise their opinion about certain aspects of the game but it's still up the the leaders to decide if those aspects get fixed or changed.
I agree, but it doesn't sound like they are trying to make Shadowbane 2 or UO + SWG + SB or whatever. The devs in this case were also leaders of previous games and or the minds behind some of the features that really made those games what they were, despite their shortcomings. Sounds like are taking what they've learned from the past 15+ years and trying to cook up something new, not simply copy crafting from SWG or whatever because people liked it. Time will tell, but comparing this team to some of the other AAA or indies out there is pretty night and day as far as past work and memorable features.
More like they haven't learned anything and are trying to recreate Shadowbane. SB was a great game in my opinion but in business sense it was terrible (since they had to close it down).
Well they stated that Crowfall will NOT be a Shadowbane 2.0.
They can say whatever they want. When 80% of design decisions come directly from SB it's SB2 for me.
You seem to assume that devs moving from X game bring elements from that game to the game they are working with. It's just not true.
Only leaders can greatly affect the game. Devs can only program what their leader tells them to. Sure they can raise their opinion about certain aspects of the game but it's still up the the leaders to decide if those aspects get fixed or changed.
I agree, but it doesn't sound like they are trying to make Shadowbane 2 or UO + SWG + SB or whatever. The devs in this case were also leaders of previous games and or the minds behind some of the features that really made those games what they were, despite their shortcomings. Sounds like are taking what they've learned from the past 15+ years and trying to cook up something new, not simply copy crafting from SWG or whatever because people liked it. Time will tell, but comparing this team to some of the other AAA or indies out there is pretty night and day as far as past work and memorable features.
More like they haven't learned anything and are trying to recreate Shadowbane. SB was a great game in my opinion but in business sense it was terrible (since they had to close it down).
Well they stated that Crowfall will NOT be a Shadowbane 2.0.
They can say whatever they want. When 80% of design decisions come directly from SB it's SB2 for me.
Your opinion doesn't change facts.
I think the only fact here is it won't be called Shadowbane 2. I'd figure any MMO Player worth his salt would know better to trust the word of a developer this early.
You seem to assume that devs moving from X game bring elements from that game to the game they are working with. It's just not true.
Only leaders can greatly affect the game. Devs can only program what their leader tells them to. Sure they can raise their opinion about certain aspects of the game but it's still up the the leaders to decide if those aspects get fixed or changed.
I agree, but it doesn't sound like they are trying to make Shadowbane 2 or UO + SWG + SB or whatever. The devs in this case were also leaders of previous games and or the minds behind some of the features that really made those games what they were, despite their shortcomings. Sounds like are taking what they've learned from the past 15+ years and trying to cook up something new, not simply copy crafting from SWG or whatever because people liked it. Time will tell, but comparing this team to some of the other AAA or indies out there is pretty night and day as far as past work and memorable features.
More like they haven't learned anything and are trying to recreate Shadowbane. SB was a great game in my opinion but in business sense it was terrible (since they had to close it down).
Well they stated that Crowfall will NOT be a Shadowbane 2.0.
They can say whatever they want. When 80% of design decisions come directly from SB it's SB2 for me.
Your opinion doesn't change facts.
I think the only fact here is it won't be called Shadowbane 2.
Comments
You mean the Trammel that stopped the hemorrhaging of subscriptions, allowed people to play as they wanted (and they voted with their feet, moving to the new servers), and lead to the peaks of player numbers in UO. That one?
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Yep. The one even Walton himself admitted he sacrificed the soul of the game for more subs.
Sounds like me made the smart move for the company, game, and fans as a whole. That's someone I'd want on the team, not someone willing to watch it all burn just because.
If Trammel had resulted in them instantly closing the doors, I'd say bad move, but it didn't.
Unfortunately, we can't always have our cake and eat it too. Luckily times have changed and it is much easier to find a decent sized group of players to keep a niche game a live.
I'm honestly shocked when I see how many people (millions) play individual F2P browser games and what not. Never heard of them, yet they are packed with players making the company money.
If these smaller companies can keep the costs down while producing a decent product, we shouldn't need for Trammels to come along to save the day. Allowing the original vision to remain and for devs to keep their word without bending to the will of $$$ or whatever.
If i had a nickle for every time someone says that for every new upcoming MMO i would be billionaire by now.
They can say whatever they want. When 80% of design decisions come directly from SB it's SB2 for me.
Interesting when above you said "You seem to assume that devs moving from X game bring elements from that game to the game they are working with. It's just not true." I'm probably taking that out of context, but I think it still applies a bit.
What parts of SB were bad for business that appear to be in Crowfall at the Alpha stage?
Honestly not sure what your point of this thread was beyond you aren't able to wait. CF looks good/bad, don't care?
No matter where the designers ambitions lie, some investor or producer/publisher could drive the monetization and even the related gameplay into the ground in an attempt to just cash in on the easily addicted. In a game which is touting depth on this level, I predict the rejection would be even greater than normal, because players who like infinite complexity are far more scrupulous.
But their specifically soliciting discussion and contribution on the design of the game, so there is a meaningful reason to reveal the game so early. In order for overall direction of the game to be impacted by the community, it has to be discussed before the foundation is set so they can attempt to fit it within the scope of the game.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
At the end of the day, more revenue is really the name of the game, and developers have to design for it, soul be damned.
Very few Devs will be like CCP and stick with very unpopular designs at the cost of greater subs.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Hell, whats another 2 years? I've been waiting 2 years over and over again for the last 10 years, only to find fail after fail of buggy, themeparked, unfinished crap being released. I will probably be 50 by the time another good mmo comes out, but I suppose it will be a good one after a good 20 year wait, then again, things aren't looking good in the industry so we shall see.
Losing a hand isn't bad....I lost my whole arm.
My point was that normal devs can't really do that "transfer" but leaders can.
All of those elements seem to be there already. Heavy PvP focus and heavy sandbox focus. 90% of MMORPGs are themeparks some even claim to be sandboxes but aren't. Being a pure sandbox game is enough to drive some players away. Same thing can be said about about heavy PvP focus.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
Your opinion doesn't change facts.
Witty & Wicked
I think the only fact here is it won't be called Shadowbane 2. I'd figure any MMO Player worth his salt would know better to trust the word of a developer this early.
My point.
Witty & Wicked