Ok the update for 9pm est is EP 10 castles AD 0 and DC 8 They are all pop locked meaning they all have the same numbers playing on the map right now. I got no clue why AD and DC steamrolled EP all weekend. Maybe the EP main crew doesn't play on weekends.
Having played DAoC for quite a while and now ESO I think the problems in Cyrodiil go beyond the gamer types playing today vs. 14 years ago.
Chief among them is the megaserver tech that doesn't keep the players that PVP together, leveling together. In DAoC's servers (I was Albion in Guinevere) we knew each other well and had a chat hierarchy beyond guilds into alliance chat for several guilds that were in an alliance.
We planned and coordinated a lot more and we all knew who was leading and what the objectives were. And the alliance leaders knew who the leaders were on the other two sides so two sides could indeed coordinate and take out the dominant side a lot of the time.
Cyrodiil in ESO is more like a "drop-in" version of DAoC where a lot of people who don't know each other all that well come up with impromptu plans and you have a whole bunch of random rogue groups or individuals often acting against the best interest of the alliance at any given time just farming wherever they feel like farming,
We had night caps in DaoC too and we also had coordinated volunteer night-owls to counter them. But in order to do that you need coordination and leadership... neither of which is particularly evident in ESO.
There's people that only do Cyrodiil. I play with them all the time. I know their styles and even if they change gear design or costume. I can say the same for my enemies. They know me too. Then there is the group that drops in with there "Master Wizard" titles too.
I've been around a lot of these guys close to a year now. We're pretty tight. I don't even group out there.
Originally posted by filmoret Ok the update for 9pm est is EP 10 castles AD 0 and DC 8 They are all pop locked meaning they all have the same numbers playing on the map right now. I got no clue why AD and DC steamrolled EP all weekend. Maybe the EP main crew doesn't play on weekends.
I know this hasn't been posted in in about 23 days, but I figured I would point out the major difference between DAOC and gw2/teso pvp.
DAOC had no scoreboard....
Players in DAOC pvped because it was fun, even if your faction was getting destroyed, it didn't matter. Now with GW2 and TESO we have scoreboards. People log in, see that they are behind by 3k points, or down 6 keeps, and they simply don't queue for pvp. It's disheartening.
Yes DAOC had nightcappers etc. But the total lack of scoreboard just meant that those of us day players could flop the map right back, and no massive damage was done. Yes we might have lost a relic overnight etc.... but that just gave us something to work toward gaining back.
Scoreboards ruin 3 faction pvp... it's plain and simple. The funny thing is i was in both the beta for TESO and GW2, and said as much many times, and was always told I didn't know what I was talking about.
I know this hasn't been posted in in about 23 days, but I figured I would point out the major difference between DAOC and gw2/teso pvp.
DAOC had no scoreboard....
Players in DAOC pvped because it was fun, even if your faction was getting destroyed, it didn't matter. Now with GW2 and TESO we have scoreboards. People log in, see that they are behind by 3k points, or down 6 keeps, and they simply don't queue for pvp. It's disheartening.
Yes DAOC had nightcappers etc. But the total lack of scoreboard just meant that those of us day players could flop the map right back, and no massive damage was done. Yes we might have lost a relic overnight etc.... but that just gave us something to work toward gaining back.
Scoreboards ruin 3 faction pvp... it's plain and simple. The funny thing is i was in both the beta for TESO and GW2, and said as much many times, and was always told I didn't know what I was talking about.
QFE..
I think people forget you're meant to lose every now and then in games like this, as that's what is intended to fuel your next outing to gain back what you lost. That's the entire point of Relics/Scrolls.Keeps..etc... It's your proverbial flag, it just has a more interesting skin..
In short, what people really don't like anymore is losing. In turn they don't actually PVP.. they flip, it detracts from their inflated sense of self worth in a game to actually lose, it puts them in their place shattering their delusions of being a leet. Which has always been there (I've witnessed such behavior since 02), but just more so now, probably has something to do with MMORPG veteran status.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I know this hasn't been posted in in about 23 days, but I figured I would point out the major difference between DAOC and gw2/teso pvp.
DAOC had no scoreboard....
What do you mean it had no scoreboards? The Camelot Herald wasn't inside the game but the official scoreboards there went far beyond anything ESO has: Individual weekly, monthly and all time rankings... by class, guild rankings, keep status for each server, etc.
What it didn't have was an end to the campaign and the cheesy Emperor thing, but scoreboards it had.
EDIT: and I should explain why I say "cheesy Emperor"... it's an individual accomplishment in a group campaign that, IMHO, detracts from the "our alliance" concept that should be the sole focus,
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Before ESO, a lot of people said Warhammer failed because it had only two factions. Three factions were supposed to ensure a kind of balance because the two underdog factions would join against the dominant one -- hearkening back to the good old (rose tinted?) glory days of DAoC. But it doesn't seem to be working out in ESO right now.
How did three factions work in DAoC? Was it balanced? Is there anything ESO can do differently (like DAoC or otherwise) to make 3-way pvp work in Cyrodiil?
Do you think the NA campaigns are faction-imbalanced now? (If you give an opinion, please say what faction you mainly pvp for.)
Are there any games that have managed to solve this type of problem? What can be done?
The missing element here is 'realm pride'.
Back in DAoC people actually gave a crap about their factions, and about winning. If you're territory was being invaded (or you lost DF) it was a big deal.
In these newer games, it's really hard to tell whether is a game mechanics problem, or just an issue with player apathy. How do you make people give a crap about winning PvP, without having too punishing gameplay? How do you keep enough people interested in a neverending PvP cycle, instead of constantly hopping to the next best thing? These are pretty important questions that affect the survival of such game mechanics. You need a lot of active players, and a lot of players who care for this type of PvP to be fun.
You lose either, or both of those, and the fun's over.
Cyrodiil is still the best made feature in ESO to date. There's not a whole lot 'wrong' with how it was made, and many people played ESO for Cyrodiil alone (though many also left due to a lot of bugs and server stability issues). It seems much more likely that today's gaming climate just doesn't support this type of PvP very well. That there are too many gamers that will game hop, or become disinterested.
World PvP only work in games that have a longterm / stable population.
Yea. I think its just a different generation and people give up too easily. League of Legends is a prime example when you are in a ranked game and the score is 10-7 the other team will surrender instead of fighting for a win. You don't see much realm pride in GW2 but you do see it in ESO. We have laughed about people getting kicked out of guilds and having fights about the ESO rvr. They do have pride about its just called points instead of pride and scrolls instead of relics. Honestly its the same system done much better and with a 100x better combat system.
Comments
There's people that only do Cyrodiil. I play with them all the time. I know their styles and even if they change gear design or costume. I can say the same for my enemies. They know me too. Then there is the group that drops in with there "Master Wizard" titles too.
I've been around a lot of these guys close to a year now. We're pretty tight. I don't even group out there.
EP has 4 keeps now and 2 under attack
edit - 1 keep now
I know this hasn't been posted in in about 23 days, but I figured I would point out the major difference between DAOC and gw2/teso pvp.
DAOC had no scoreboard....
Players in DAOC pvped because it was fun, even if your faction was getting destroyed, it didn't matter. Now with GW2 and TESO we have scoreboards. People log in, see that they are behind by 3k points, or down 6 keeps, and they simply don't queue for pvp. It's disheartening.
Yes DAOC had nightcappers etc. But the total lack of scoreboard just meant that those of us day players could flop the map right back, and no massive damage was done. Yes we might have lost a relic overnight etc.... but that just gave us something to work toward gaining back.
Scoreboards ruin 3 faction pvp... it's plain and simple. The funny thing is i was in both the beta for TESO and GW2, and said as much many times, and was always told I didn't know what I was talking about.
QFE..
I think people forget you're meant to lose every now and then in games like this, as that's what is intended to fuel your next outing to gain back what you lost. That's the entire point of Relics/Scrolls.Keeps..etc... It's your proverbial flag, it just has a more interesting skin..
In short, what people really don't like anymore is losing. In turn they don't actually PVP.. they flip, it detracts from their inflated sense of self worth in a game to actually lose, it puts them in their place shattering their delusions of being a leet. Which has always been there (I've witnessed such behavior since 02), but just more so now, probably has something to do with MMORPG veteran status.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What do you mean it had no scoreboards? The Camelot Herald wasn't inside the game but the official scoreboards there went far beyond anything ESO has: Individual weekly, monthly and all time rankings... by class, guild rankings, keep status for each server, etc.
What it didn't have was an end to the campaign and the cheesy Emperor thing, but scoreboards it had.
EDIT: and I should explain why I say "cheesy Emperor"... it's an individual accomplishment in a group campaign that, IMHO, detracts from the "our alliance" concept that should be the sole focus,
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The missing element here is 'realm pride'.
Back in DAoC people actually gave a crap about their factions, and about winning. If you're territory was being invaded (or you lost DF) it was a big deal.
In these newer games, it's really hard to tell whether is a game mechanics problem, or just an issue with player apathy. How do you make people give a crap about winning PvP, without having too punishing gameplay? How do you keep enough people interested in a neverending PvP cycle, instead of constantly hopping to the next best thing? These are pretty important questions that affect the survival of such game mechanics. You need a lot of active players, and a lot of players who care for this type of PvP to be fun.
You lose either, or both of those, and the fun's over.
Cyrodiil is still the best made feature in ESO to date. There's not a whole lot 'wrong' with how it was made, and many people played ESO for Cyrodiil alone (though many also left due to a lot of bugs and server stability issues). It seems much more likely that today's gaming climate just doesn't support this type of PvP very well. That there are too many gamers that will game hop, or become disinterested.
World PvP only work in games that have a longterm / stable population.
You get rewards for being on the winning team (in gw2 you get small xp and other % bonuses, I assume there is something like it in ESO)
You are given an easy way to switch teams.
People switch to the winning team because they want to be winning and to get the rewards for winning.
I don't see any problem with the players here, they are simply making the logical choice and choosing the winning team.
Waiting for:
The Repopulation
Albion Online
People who play GW2 rvr 1 million
People who play ESO rvr 500k
People who played Daoc rvr 5k
Yea. I think its just a different generation and people give up too easily. League of Legends is a prime example when you are in a ranked game and the score is 10-7 the other team will surrender instead of fighting for a win. You don't see much realm pride in GW2 but you do see it in ESO. We have laughed about people getting kicked out of guilds and having fights about the ESO rvr. They do have pride about its just called points instead of pride and scrolls instead of relics. Honestly its the same system done much better and with a 100x better combat system.