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Why aren't superhero MMOs more popular?
Kristendom
Member Posts: 5
I've often wondered about this. I play and enjoy a variety of MMOs, and two of my favorite titles are DCUO and Champions Online (although admittedly, I haven't played CO in quite some time.) And before those games, I dabbled in City of Heroes and had a blast with it.
It of course was shut down. Today, DCUO, Marvel Heroes and CO aren't exactly tearing it up in the MMO market. They aren't necessarily doing bad, just not listed as among the more popular titles out there. You rarely hear anyone talk about them whenever a discussion about fun MMOs come up. And I'm not gonna lie to you, this thoroughly confuses me.
Nearly EVERYTHING - and I mean EVERYTHING - about the superhero genre is tailor made for MMOs. Almost as if it was made for this genre specifically. It's customization in the raw. You can literally make any kind of character you want AND in any kind of costume or armor you want it in. It is quite literally limitless. Then there's the cultural impact of comic books in not only geek culture, but mainstream culture today. In short, it now defines both of them.
Hollywood relies solely on comic book movies to save their industry and drive ridiculously high profits. (Memo to aspiring writers out there: if you want to break into the industry, write a comic book movie). And the most popular shows on television as of this writing are Agents of Shield, Agent Carter, The Flash, Arrow, and Constantine with a bevy of new comic book shows on the way.
Being geek is now the new cool. If you doubt that, head on over to any entertainment/media website or blog or social media account and check out what events they all have circled on their calendars. It isn't the Oscars or the Emmys or the Grammys. It's the Comic-Cons. Superheroes rule pop culture at the moment, and that doesn't look to be changing any time soon.
Yet none of this has translated into success in the MMO space - or really even in video games period. MMOs still seem to be the domain of elves and orcs, sword and sorcercy. I get that because of the history of RPGs and MUDs. But superheroes are essentially a retelling of the great myths of the past, and again, seem to be a near perfect fit for MMOs, even down to the grouping and social aspects. (Grouping with other heroes/players to defeat a larger evil; joining a guild/superteam is no different than joining the Avengers or the Justice League, etc.)
So, this begs the question. Why aren't superhero MMOs more popular?
Comments
The same reason that new heroes dont really take off. EVERYONE knows who Batman is, EVERYONE knows who Captain America is, EVERYONE knows who Wolverine/Hulk/Superman ect is.
People seem to like to follow their favorite heroes, with all their established history to dig into, rather than try to start over with a brand new hero, either a new creation by the indurstry or their own game creation. There just isnt alot of meat there at the start.
Plus in a game, things cant really get overly complicated/convoluted in the same way it can with comics
Personally, I think it's largely the gameplay/combat style. People play superhero games they want big action, they wanna feel super strong and powerful and throw enemies all over the place.
I remember often getting my ass kicked in CoH by a gang of Mafia guys... ya... that's how I wanna feel like a superhero. Getting my ass kicked by Joe Pesci and Ray Liotta.
Now, if Cryptic had ever made a superhero MMO with combat similar to Neverwinter... we might be on to something.
Somethings dont work well outside are make sucess like superhero need stay in comics not in mmo
maybe ARENA(i mean mobaa) but not in mmorpg
hum maybe something like APB well
Because they can't seem to figure out how to build a super-hero game world that doesn't suck. I really loved making heroes in Champions online but the worlds, quests, and encounters really left me wanting something better.
I think it's because comic books worlds are generally either really specific or really generic cities. They need some vision, to create a world/universe of varied environments in which super heroes were needed. Think of the world building in games like Bioshock, architecture, history, background, etc. This is what these games need. Characters are only cool if they have somewhere they can exist.
The part about comic books seeming childish for "adults" who want to be an elf or an orc slaying dragons was hilarious.
Your point about TSW was right on, though. I love that game and it is one of my favorites. In fact, SWTOR and TSW are on top for me at the moment.
Didn't Marvel Heroes just win Best MMO of 2014?
(that is semi-sarcastic, btw)
I can't really speak for everyone, but I know why I tend to not play them. It's the progression of the character. It seems kinda silly but when I play a game, I like my character to "look" stronger appearance wise. I like that you typically look like a street urchin at the beginning of an MMO and then and up looking like a total boss. Ya know, the kinda guy who gets the extra shot of espresso in his caramel macchiato... a man's man if you will. When I play superhero mmo's, I just don't get that feeling. Yeah, you get stronger, but you typically look the same, less some uniform color differences. I mean, DCUO was a little different as the gear did progress in appearance, but it still doesn't feel right to me.
Like I said, this is just my personal experience with them. I'm sure others will have different opinions.
I don't know the answer. They just haven't made a good one yet. I'd play a good one but I've tried DCUO and CoX and they were both terrible games. From what I understood Marvel Heroes isn't a MMORPG and don't really have an interest in another aRPG.
I just can't get into a MMO where there are hundreds if not thousands of super heroes around, takes away any of the unique awe super heroes are supposed to be.
Fantasy MMOs aren't quite the same, most players you run by pretty much look and act like average schmoos so it's easier to maintain illusion.
Heck, in EVE I'm practically a moisture farmer these days, devoting much of my time mining, no issues being surrounded by too many heroes.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And yet people have no problems flocking to fantasy MMOs with a completely new setting and no existing "meat" as you call it. If people like to follow their favorite heroes, then what about Age of Conan? People weren't exactly running to that game either but in WoW people were very eager to start over with their new hero.
Sorry, but your argument has some serious flaws.
It would help your argument if you explained WHY you thought they were terrible games.
The problem I have with gear based games is that once you get a particular look that you like, the next big dodad that comes by ruins it so you have to spend more time/resources getting the new dodad to look like the old one. Your reason for not liking superhero games is one of its strengths IMHO. You can adjust your look on YOUR terms not when you get a new item and you don't lose anything if you make the choice to look like street urchin the whole time, it's up to you.
Here are my personal reasons why I chose not to play any Superhero Player-character MMOs:
1.) Usually 20th or 21st Century time period. I will not play any MMOs during this time period.
2.) Player Character is always the Hero or the Villain or trying to be one or the other. I have no wish to play a Hero, or a Sidekick, I want to be the guy fights in the background like some of the minor recurring characters in the Iron Man and Avenger Movies. This Hero/Villain dynamic is my most dislike feature of SWTOR and most of the times I stopped playing TOR it was because of how that MMO resembles a Superhero MMO too much.
3.) Martial Arts a.k.a. my character fighting with it's fist and feet. I don't play any game with fists and feet as primary weapons because it never interested me. I never have liked any game with martial arts as a main focus and every Superhero I ever read about uses their Fists and Feet a good portion of the time.
I guess for some weird reason people prefer fantasy games. I don't get it either. Who wants to live in a world without indoor plumbing?
Superhero games aren't gear based so there's only so much you can do in terms of progression. There's not many skills in superheroing either (unless it's the main focus of your character like Batman). So right there crafting and raiding are going to be sub-par and those seem to be two big things in MMOs (well at least raiding). Another issue is that in superhero games you can have any origin you want which can make it difficult to generate content. So basically once you run through the story arcs you're done. You can't grind for the purple mask because there's no gear and you might not wear a mask.
I love superhero games, but it seems like many people want to spend hours grinding away at a dungeon so they have a chance at getting an aqua-marine gear drop. It's what makes the game sustainable.
Legends in DCUO serves as a pretty good solution for that issue.
For OP's why they aren't more popular question, I think it's because of what Oziius wrote above, the progression. And I think, that's where you missed, OP. "Nearly EVERYTHING - and I mean EVERYTHING - about the superhero genre is tailor made for MMOs." Nope, it's tailor-made for RPGs (and/or adventure games). Since MMOs are less and less RPGs lately, and the mindset of today is all about advancing, grinding, getting the loot, etc. the era is not the best suited for a superhero game...
Superheroes as a genre is all about stories. The characters are aging and experiencing a lot during their adventures, but they're only developing in character and wisdom, not earning new powers or gear and stuff. With the truckload of well-written lore I too believe it's a perfect base for roleplaying, there are nice p'n'p settings for it - but it's not a good match for an advancement-crazed game like mmo. And if you think back, in CoH and in CO too you don't get truckload of powers while leveling up, and in DCUO the leveling part is maybe the shortest one among mmos... and it's a good decision. But for obvious reasons, when everyone is chasing the next shiny and wants to grind über gear and stuff, it's not much popular.
As much as I loathe console cr*ps like Batman AA, those are actually pretty decent implementations of the superhero genre. I'd love to have a more story-oriented approach, just like the investigation missions in TSW, or a Foundry-like tool in a singleplayer rpg where everyone could write stories and share it for others to play, but I accept that nowadays the action and button-mashing rules the industry sadly.
edit: with my slow typing meanwhile Alverant posted a similar answer
play in the instances ... you won't see other players.
But you are right .. that is one issue for me with marvel heroes. It is a great game but i think it would have been better if it is a full instanced lobby game, as opposed to have some mmo features.
In fact, since most players have multiple heroes, it is easy to enforce each group/instance can only have 1 copy of any hero.
Because MMORPGs centered around characters who can do everything, soloing, mindless solo content, and casual gameplay suck and aren't worth playing?
MMORPGs were better when the genre was niche, was about grouping, cooperating, challenge, and danger.
Specifically with superhero lore you don't really have roles - everybody is amazing and does their own thing. Even when superheroes team up they tend to do things as individuals.
Weak groups of super powerful soloists essentially sharing a chat channel is already well done by GW2.
Fantasy tends to latch on easier than other styles. If you bake tanks, dps, and healers into your superhero game and setup superhero abilities that boil down to being spells or melee attacks you basically have weak fantasy in tights - may as well just play a fantasy game and ditch the goofiness.
Superhero stuff is more suited to pure solo (single player). It's superman, not supermen. It's wonderwoman, not wonderwomen. Etc. Some have sidekicks but the hero themselves is still "the man" or "the one"
I think another factor is that most MMORPGs make you out to be a hero but being a "superhero" is a whole different vibe and you just don't feel like a superhero in these games when you spend the bulk of your time fighting legions of minions (that should be trivial for a real superhero but due to pacing and progression are usually actually challenging) and you do tons of mundane and generic MMORPG stuff that isn't all that heroic. Hey, superman, can you deliver this note to joe average over on bland street for me, I'll give you some new tights with +5 agility on them...
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
I didn't have an argument, I had a personal opinion. I'm well aware not everyone shares my opinion. I don't want to go into a bunch of detail that has no relevance to the topic. I think they were both bad games and it had nothing to do with the super hero side of things, we can leave it at that.
My primary issue with CoX was that the combat just wasn't fun at all. My primary issue with DCUO is the PvE side of things was way too static and boring. Those were far from my only complaints but again these aren't really relevant to this discussion.
I love superhero MMOs. I played CoX for many years, and I still go back to DCUO from time to time. CoX was one of the most popular MMOs of its time... it had rave reviews when it first came out, and they were ahead of their time as far as updates and events.
I think the problem with superhero MMOs is multifaceted. Each one has its own issues. Before I get into each of them -- its also important to know that when it comes to heroes.. you also talk about companies. Some people really love Marvel heroes. Some love DC heroes. Some won't play a game simply because they don't like one or the other. This is the kind of world we live in..... its weird.. but it happens.
In CoX the issue was that it didn't age well. The combat system slowly began to feel dated, and the graphics didn't hold true -- the team started falling apart with their new "growth". It felt very much like what you'd expect from an early MMO. It was perfect for the beginner, but fell short as time progressed -- it also didn't have very good PvP, and the worlds and missions were so instanced, it just lost its luster.
CO had a lot of things right, but they were pretty much doomed from the beginning as they wanted to make this a game for consoles and PC, but the console thing fell through... and ultimately they made most of the power sets too similar and threw balance out the window with PvP.
DCUO is probably the best superhero game in terms of getting me to feel like a super hero. They did a lot of things right -- the story aspect, the combat is by far the best combat system in an MMO to date. The open world PvP and the hero battles and even the updates.. they were all great. Even the world was amazing -- but it was too small, generally. Too instanced. And the top end raids were too inaccessible with the gear tiers. I feel like they could have made some of the classes a little more diverse too -- but I did like the power sets and fighting styles.
Marvel Heroes..... isn't really an MMORPG, and while the gameplay is pretty interesting, you can't create your own character.. you can't feel unique... and personally I don't see much longevity in character progression, so it falls flat for me.
I think there is still a huge market for superhero MMOs. I think right now... the saturation rate on superhero MMOs is kind of high... and DCUO does cater to a diverse crowd. (hopefully even more if they release on xboxone) .
I would say, the market will feel right in a few years, with an unknown company, coming up with something fresh, that doesn't cater to a single comic company. Right now, people who want marvel have marvel.. and people who want DC have DC.. but maybe there will come a time again soon where people will want to be their own hero again.
CoX was the only super hero MMO that got it right. That's why. Champions and DCUO are all about the money grabs. You went into character creation in CoX (with a sub) and you didn't see a single $ or ad for $. In Champions and DCUO, about 95% of all the options are behind a paywall. Yes the companies should be able to charge for these things, but when you log in and all you see is $ for this, $ for that, and more $$ for this other thing and almost every thing is $$$$$$$, it makes everyone feel like it's all about the money. This is why I dislike most F2P games. I hate commercials on my TV, so I almost always just watch it recorded to skip them. In F2P games, there's no way to skip the commercial that is 100% up on your screen 24/7/365. Even if it is just a $ symbol button or something small, it's still there annoying me lol.
There's a reason why websites don't use Pop-ups anymore, it's because if your site uses pop-ups your traffic plummets.
Probably you missed the memo, but both CO and DCUO were developed and launched as regular, p2p games, so your comparison is flawed... (and both have the subscribe option to this day)