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"This isn't just a game to me. I'm on a mission."
I've read countless posts by dozens of game developers over the years but I'm not sure I've ever read anything quite as transparent and compelling as what J. Todd Coleman just shared on the official Crowfall forums.
In a thread called "Ask the Team", the community was invited to ask members of the recently announced dev team personal questions about their involvement in the Crowfall, hobbies or games past and present. The entire thread is a good read and worth checking out for sure. What I didn't expect was Co-Founder and Creative Director J. Todd Coleman's brutally honest post discussing his successes, failures and most of all, what Crowfall means to him on a personal level. In my opinion, his words highlight how the highest cost of developing MMO's isn't the money - it's the sacrifices made by those who live to make them.
Here's the post:
Source: Official Crowfall Forums
In a thread called "Ask the Team", the community was invited to ask members of the recently announced dev team personal questions about their involvement in the Crowfall, hobbies or games past and present. The entire thread is a good read and worth checking out for sure. What I didn't expect was Co-Founder and Creative Director J. Todd Coleman's brutally honest post discussing his successes, failures and most of all, what Crowfall means to him on a personal level. In my opinion, his words highlight how the highest cost of developing MMO's isn't the money - it's the sacrifices made by those who live to make them.
Here's the post:
Originally posted by J. Todd Coleman:
I am ALL IN on Crowfall. I've invested a big chunk of my savings. I left my cushy job. I gave up my safe little nest, and took a bold (arguably foolhardy) leap into the unknown.Now, to be sure - I'm as skeptical as anyone considering that Crowfall isn't even made yet. However, if this is the honest and true passion of those behind it - I'm all in too.
Why?
Because I HAVE to make this game.
March, 2004: Shadowbane basically ruined me. I put everything I had into Wolfpack; I crunched for years. I spent all the money that I made from selling my previous company. I lost friends. I alienated family members. I'm not going to go so far as to say "shadowbane caused my divorce", but I will say: it certainly didn't help.
We shipped it, yes. and it sold well. But it was riddled with issues (technical, design, and operational) that caused it to bleed players like a sieve.
All that effort, all that cost, all that pain. and it just didn't work. We lost.
We sold the company to find a soft landing for the team. The founders? No such luck. Unemployed.
I had invested everything in Shadowbane, and walked away with almost nothing. For about a year, I basically fell off the grid, didn't do much of anything but think about what went wrong.
I'm over that, now. I'm not longer haunted by 'this went wrong' or 'that went wrong'. I'm years past the autopsy.
What haunts me is this: it ALMOST worked.
The vision we (the Wolfpack founders) had was amazing. The vision was right there, so perfectly clear in our minds. It was tangible. And, every now and then in development, the rarest of moments. A break in the storm clouds, the sunlight would pour through like a light from heaven and everything would just WORK. For a few moments, you could FEEL it. Ask the folks who played the SB beta, they can tell you what it felt like:
THIS IS IT.
THIS IS THE GAME.
THIS IS THE VISION.
IT IS REAL.
IT WORKS.
...and then the clouds would roll back in, fires would erupt all around me, and everything would go to hell again.
The idea behind Crowfall -- the original idea that pre-dates Shadowbane, that was born in a pizza joint as a scribble on a paper napkin -- that vision is my white whale. We had it once, right there, in our grasps. It was so close!
It ALMOST worked.
I've spent every day of the last decade learning how to build MMOs. Shadowbane was the first game that I ever worked on, remember. I made a ton of newbie mistakes. Say what you like about Wizard101, but we had a flawless launch and amassed over 50 million players. I've picked up a few tricks.
I learned what I need to learn about building MMOs. Launching MMOs. Running a live service. and with Gordon here, and the team that we have recruited, we can do this. We can make this game great.
This isn't just a game to me. I'm on a mission.
It is time to right a great wrong.
Source: Official Crowfall Forums
Comments
Passion, features, hype, they all mean nothing until we see it functioning as described in front of our eyes.
The MMO community has been sold quite a lot of beach front property in Arizona over the years. These guys need to deliver if they don't want to find themselves broke and unemployed again.
The drive and passion are inspiring. No question there. I have nothing but respect for anyone who can come out and admit they screwed up and were the reason something (SB in this case) didn't work out. It's become so typical to see people blame everything/anything for their games' problems... if they acknowledge any issues at all.
I wish them all the absolute best and hope they nail it this time. I've wished so many times I could go back and play Shadowbane again (and not on an emulator).
I like the honesty and passion and believe it will help the game succeed. I'm sure lots of devs, at least from the early days, have similar stories, but as he said, those were the early days and first tries. Taking all that success, failure, and knowledge and applying it to a new product can be a win.
Obviously have to see the game (18 days and ticking), but it sure does sound good. More so then a big company and a PR team going "come on everyone, this will be awesome!"
Gordon Walton replied to someone a while ago on the CF forums about UO and Trammel, and he was honest (that I could tell). It's nice to see individuals in what should be respected positions, just saying it how it is, while taking into consideration how their words and decisions impact fans (Smedley....).
Could be wishful thinking, but I'm hoping they have Star Citizen success or at least it goes in that direction. Mark Jacobs is also a passionate guy and has loyal fans because of DAoC/WAR, but didn't really bring in too much funding for CU. Crowfall and the team behind it seem to have a little something more that could really hit the right buttons (including Support Now) for many gamers out there.
They definitely have passion working in their favor. Its something thats been missing from most of the last decade of mmorpgs, and it shows. If you're making a game to make a buck, it just doesn't work out.
I still think its more passion than good ideas based on what they've shown us and said thus far, but I can't help to appreciate someone working towards their dream, however implausible I think it may be.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
What he's saying is that game studios are more concerned with inflating profit margins than they are about making an outstanding game. Take Archeage as a prime example. The idea of Archeage, the premise upon which the game was built, and the mechanics it employs to drive character progression and player interaction are exactly what I'm looking for in a game. The devs obviously had some passion and creativity when making it. However, the pay to win mentality and regrettably shortsighted game decisions they've made for the sole purpose of pump and dump cash grabbing makes me sick. They've ruined a perfectly good game because instead of being satisfied with a great game that makes X profit they would rather have a shit game that makes X+1 profit.
Sorry, but gonna have to call BS on this.
I have played these games too, and they have little to no vision. Its been far more common for developers to emulate rather than innovate in the last decade. They might have good ideas, maybe great artists and talented people who are passionate about their individual work, but as a whole, the driving force - the underlying ideas and concepts - behind *most* MMOs in the last decade has been whatever is likely to get funded and make the most money. I'm not talking about indie projects that may or may not ever get released, I'm talking major developers and mainstream games that have made it to launch. Its not all their fault though. The people with funding are creating games that are "safe" and they can pitch to investors based on previous successful games.
WoW Clones everywhere. Where are the Shadowbane clones at?With this team they will get it right this time. Last time it was inexperienced developers making Shadowbane. Now 12 years later they have an amazingly experienced team. The only thing they have wrong is thinking they are working on a niche game. They are not!
^Fully agree.
Witty & Wicked
Bravo on that response. Some people think that these forums are solely for the benefit of themselves.
Newsflash..... There are many of us, who would love to discuss a new and exciting game that will potentially hit the market. And yes, one per day by the OP is not too much for me.
For me, it is the personal interest that devs have in a product that makes a difference. In this case and like many indie games, the main investors are the people behind the game and if it goes belly up, they are at a loss in multiple ways, financially being a big one.
Someone working on WoW, ESO, GW2, EQN, AA, etc probably isn't going to be too negatively impacted if a game goes sour. Might be let go or whatever, but they aren't going to be out personal financial investment, they were collecting a check from day 1 to pink slip.
Obviously this only goes so far once crowdfunding and other funding starts funneling in and the devs can start eating, but to me that is the difference between having passion for a product that the company you work for is producing and living that passion because you personally depend on the success.
This also bleeds into the design as well. While many of the early games also had a lot of backing, the devs behind them, put their own ideas into the games, we saw originality. Such as the names behind CF, people know who they are by name and what they did for better or worse. How many modern games have devs people mention by name or care about? Just another team churning out a product for a company. Played WoW for several years and the only dev I know anything about is because he was famous from EQ/FOH, rest of the team is faceless. Maybe I don't pay attention or something, but I don't believe that is the only reason.
Yea that was just a straight up troll post. >.>
Like, don't act like someone forced you to look at this stuff. lol
Witty & Wicked
Two idioms come to mind:
"The devil is in the details"
"The road to ruin is paved with good intentions"
I don't doubt their passion is there, but that's not exactly an uncommon thing when it comes to games development. You just don't get into this industry without a passion for making games. I hope they can pull it off, I really do, but I'm going to wait until i see the actual features INGAME before I get too hyped.
A risk indeed, "they almost had it with shadowbane".. that's just the thing, it's really not devs who ruin games like this, their vision was probably sound, as they are now. It's the nature of the crowd that makes it a real risk, not the vision. Their vision probably works when approached right, mainly because devs think like this... "people can really RP with these systems".. "This is what they always ask for".. For a lot of players that's probably true. However what goes wrong is the something awful's and gank squad thugs... Those who take their freedom too far, because they can..
It's this crowd that is the biggest risk to play your cards on. There's no real way to combat them, without taking freedom's away... in turn...Alienating the main players you're seeking.. It can be a catch 22, damned if you don't damned if you do.. scenario. All I can say is, think about that when you read words like this from those behind the project. It's not just a game with no real life consequence to them..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That passion is stalker level red flag passion to me.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
yeah, anything something awful is a part of...does tend to drive tons of players away. Then the mmo dies and they move on to the next thing to devour.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
I havnt looked to much into this game yet but i would just like to say this.
If its a game that isnt free to play ( pay to win ) and it isnt another wow clone then I hope it does great, im really pulling for something different.
BUT
as a long time MMO player that has been burnt many times, you will not win me over with hype or passion or words in general. You can say it a million times how great it will be and i will not believe you, the only way anymore is to put up or shut up.
Sure, but you're now arguing besides the point, and perhaps kind of missing it.
No one's arguing that a business shouldn't want to make money, nor be successful. The thing is, and this is territory you seem to be treading on, Kano, is that you're presuming a desired level of success for the developers of Crowfall, which you can't do, unless you know what their plans/vision/goal is with it.
It's in the same stable as people who assume that, to be a successful MMO dev, you need to spend 10s of millions of dollars, have systems and content that appeal to tons of people, and be able to go up against WoW. All of that is only true if you're trying to target WoW's market, and attract their numbers.
If you're targeting a smaller audience with a more specific playstyle, and your development/operating budget is planned out with the revenue from a smaller player-base in mind, then you could do just fine. It's not a "go big or go home" situation. Success isn't "one size fits all".
It's all in the approach. I saw a great way of explaining it some time ago, and I can't remember where, so unfortunately I can't cite it. But, there are two mindsets you can approach it with.
To put it another way...
Imagine a couple wants to open a small, mom-and-pop style pizzeria. They have their own recipes for pizza, subs, pastas, etc. They have the name picked. They have the logo sketched out. They have the menu written up, etc. They want to go into business for themselves. It's something they're passionate about.
While they're setting the place up, someone comes up to them and says "Why are you opening your own place? Why don't you buy into an established franchise? You'll never be able to compete with Papa John's and Dominos and Pizza Hut. They have proven recipes, get far more business and make far more money. Why not just go with one of them instead? Why risk doing it your own way? Don't you want to make a lot of money and be successful?"
The response from one of the owners is, "Because we don't want to use someone else's logo, someone else's recipes and all this. We want to create something of our own, with our own recipes made with our own hand-picked ingredients, our own menu, our own dining experience, our own flavor of hospitality and service. We don't care if we aren't as big as those franchises, because we're not trying to be like them. We want to provide something more personal and close to home. As long as we can do well enough to keep the business going, to bring some money in, pay our staff and be happy, that's all the success we need or could ever want".
"But you'll never be able to compete with the big names".
"We don't need to, and we aren't trying to".
The above example is one I've actually seen myself, in person. When I was younger, a school mate's folks were opening their own pizzeria/Italian restaurant. And that's exactly the cynicism they were shown.. "why waste your time and money? You'll never do as well as the big franchises". Their reason was right in line with what I said in my hypothetical example.
And you know what happened? They did great. They found a core customer base of people who were looking for a more personal, home-made style pizzeria - exactly what they were offering. Word got around about the place, and they got to the point, several years on, where they were able to open a second location across town, which also did well. Were they doing as well as Papa John's or Dominos? No. But they were doing better than they imagined they would. They were successful.
Now, could they have failed? Of course. Their recipes could have been awful. Service could have been poor, etc. But it wasn't. They followed their gut and their dreams, and it worked.
"Making tons of money" wasn't their goal. That wasn't their idea of "success". Opening their own place and being successful enough to do something they were passionate about was.
And *that's* the difference.
That's the difference between the typical commerical, mainstream MMO, and something more tightly focused and targeted like Crowfall.
One side wants to make as much money as possible through a game they're developing. The other side wants to earn enough money to develop the kind of game they want to make.
Success isn't always measured in how many $$$s you have in your bottom line.
Could the Crowfall folks go the safer route, more guaranteed to make "more money"? Sure. But then they wouldn't be making the game they want to make... and that would kinda defeat the purpose, wouldn't it?
They know what's at stake. They tried once already and failed. So no one needs to tell them how big a risk they're taking. They've already lived it. Yet, they're doing it anyway. Because there's a game they have in their mind, that they have yet to make a reality... and they want to make it one. That, to me, speaks volumes more than someone who's just looking to tick all the correct marketing check-boxes to make a game "commercially viable" by mainstream standards - the genre's already full of those.
Well, of course.
Though, a lot of that disappointment has been at the hands of the hype players build themselves. How often have we seen players saying things about an upcoming game that the devs have either not said themselves, or have actually said the opposite. Players get psyched about the game they imagine in their heads. Then they feel "cheated" when the actual game doesn't live up to what they imagined it would be.
Not saying that devs don't have a history of drinking their own kool-aid, and hyping up their own products to levels the actual game could never reach (*cough*SWTOR*cough*). Some PR Departments really need to be muzzled. However, they're not solely to blame.
The only "safe" way to approach any MMO (or any game, or really anything for that matter), is with a healthy dose of cautious optimism.
I'm very excited about Crowfall. I'm also keeping my expectations in check and plan to go in with an open mind.
Words are cheap and mean nothing these days.
Ah okay. Yeah, I misunderstood ya, then.