Single reason why Blade & Soul will fail in the west

Caladiel

RNG in gear progression

 

Your weapon in the game is the single most important thing you own, and the only way to get a good weapon is through the evolution and feeding system. Let me tell you though, the chance of succes is abysmally low at higher levels.

Fail an evolution? Have fun grinding for another week to try again, and forget about doing that instance you otherwise could have done during that time.

Still think it'll pull any number worthy of NCSoft's time?

I have my doubts at this point, since history has told me that games with such systems with high rng might have had a high surge at the start but in the end fatality flopped or went F2P.

(Aion just to name one)

 

Any counter arguments?

Moodsor

At this point I dont even think B&S will release in the west, theres been no news for ages.

Satyros

I used to care.. Once..

kitarad

As a person who has always been treated unkindly by the RNG I shy away from any system that forces me to rely on luck to upgrade my gear in a game because based on my track record I  will do badly . Lady Luck and I are not on speaking terms and let's just say she will never favour me in this lifetime.

stayontarget

And here I thought it would be the heavily instanced world,  static boss fights, and bland questing.

Heretique

If this released in the West when the game was still relevant, probably would have had success with the market that was following it. But not I am not so sure and I think they realize that, hence the hesitation. NCSoft already pissed off a lot of people by pulling the plug on CoX.

GeezerGamer

Originally posted by kitarad
As a person who has always been treated unkindly by the RNG I shy away from any system that forces me to rely on luck to upgrade my gear in a game because based on my track record I  will do badly . Lady Luck and I are not on speaking terms and let's just say she will never favour me in this lifetime.

She's a fickle one.  But hey, I have lots of luck..........all bad.

The flip side of this....or at least the non RNG factor is that I (and I assume many others) will not readily invest in anything NCSoft publishes that even looks shaky. If this game doesn't launch with a very solid start, my hesitation is less on its RNG and more on "Why bother?" I won't invest in a character only to see an official announcement from NCSoft that starts with "It is with heavy hearts..............."

Sovrath

Originally posted by Caladiel

RNG in gear progression

 

 

Any counter arguments?

Doesn't Diablo III have complete RNG in all its gear?

Azaron_Nightblade

Originally posted by kitarad
As a person who has always been treated unkindly by the RNG I shy away from any system that forces me to rely on luck to upgrade my gear in a game because based on my track record I  will do badly . Lady Luck and I are not on speaking terms and let's just say she will never favour me in this lifetime.

Sounds like my relationship with her. And also the reason why I'll avoid anything RNG. Which often means Korean MMOs. Aion has a BS system like that too with the stones, where they all blow up in your face if you're unlucky. (Although there are cash shop items that prevent this from happening IIRC. The other reason to avoid Korean MMOs.)

Caladiel

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Caladiel

RNG in gear progression

 

 

Any counter arguments?

Doesn't Diablo III have complete RNG in all its gear?

There's a factor of control in that you have to just get lucky on the drop itself.

With Blade & Soul it's like this.

You need crystals and essences for evolutions.

Crystals you only get 20 each day through daily quests.

Essences only 2 a day through daily quests.

Alternatively you can buy these two off players for a steep price.

 

To get Shadow weapon you need :

Anger  (drops from Mushin Floor 8 Phase 2)

Soldier (drops from Mushin Floor 7)

Sorceress (drops off Po Hvaran)

Pirate (drops off Mysterious Man)

Get Anger to level 5

Then get Pirate to 5 and break it through with a blue weapon, crystals and essences and gold. This step CAN fail.

Get Pirate to level 10 now.

Attempt to fuse it with Anger Level 5, this will cost you 72 Gold, 170 Crystals, and 20 Essences.

If you fail this step, have fun grinding it out another week on 2 characters to get enough crystals.

 

Now if you're lucky enough to pass this step, Do the same with Sorceress and fusing that sonovabi with Soldier.

Same costs involved again with same risks involved again.

 

If you pass those hurdles, you need 10 Evolution stones and another heep of crystals I bet.

 

Now tell me that Diablo 3 is bad :P

Warlyx

no different than enchanting system f2p like to use...if u fail start over again ~~ mos irritating thing ever

Kyleran

Well I confess, certainly not something I'm interested in.

Phry

Originally posted by Caladiel

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Caladiel

RNG in gear progression

 

 

Any counter arguments?

Doesn't Diablo III have complete RNG in all its gear?

There's a factor of control in that you have to just get lucky on the drop itself.

With Blade & Soul it's like this.

You need crystals and essences for evolutions.

Crystals you only get 20 each day through daily quests.

Essences only 2 a day through daily quests.

Alternatively you can buy these two off players for a steep price.

 

To get Shadow weapon you need :

Anger  (drops from Mushin Floor 8 Phase 2)

Soldier (drops from Mushin Floor 7)

Sorceress (drops off Po Hvaran)

Pirate (drops off Mysterious Man)

Get Anger to level 5

Then get Pirate to 5 and break it through with a blue weapon, crystals and essences and gold. This step CAN fail.

Get Pirate to level 10 now.

Attempt to fuse it with Anger Level 5, this will cost you 72 Gold, 170 Crystals, and 20 Essences.

If you fail this step, have fun grinding it out another week on 2 characters to get enough crystals.

 

Now if you're lucky enough to pass this step, Do the same with Sorceress and fusing that sonovabi with Soldier.

Same costs involved again with same risks involved again.

 

If you pass those hurdles, you need 10 Evolution stones and another heep of crystals I bet.

 

Now tell me that Diablo 3 is bad :P

Needlessly complicated and in all probability, not something i would be interested in doing, i doubt they would try and release something like that in NA/EU because i doubt it would have any appeal, doesn't matter how good the graphics are, gameplay features like that are imo, a huge turn off, the only way they could make it work in NA/EU imo, would be to change the game mechanics, because what you have described is not a game, but an 'ordeal'.

ThumbtackJ

Originally posted by Caladiel

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Caladiel

RNG in gear progression

 

 

Any counter arguments?

Doesn't Diablo III have complete RNG in all its gear?

There's a factor of control in that you have to just get lucky on the drop itself.

With Blade & Soul it's like this.

You need crystals and essences for evolutions.

Crystals you only get 20 each day through daily quests.

Essences only 2 a day through daily quests.

Alternatively you can buy these two off players for a steep price.

 

To get Shadow weapon you need :

Anger  (drops from Mushin Floor 8 Phase 2)

Soldier (drops from Mushin Floor 7)

Sorceress (drops off Po Hvaran)

Pirate (drops off Mysterious Man)

Get Anger to level 5

Then get Pirate to 5 and break it through with a blue weapon, crystals and essences and gold. This step CAN fail.

Get Pirate to level 10 now.

Attempt to fuse it with Anger Level 5, this will cost you 72 Gold, 170 Crystals, and 20 Essences.

If you fail this step, have fun grinding it out another week on 2 characters to get enough crystals.

 

Now if you're lucky enough to pass this step, Do the same with Sorceress and fusing that sonovabi with Soldier.

Same costs involved again with same risks involved again.

 

If you pass those hurdles, you need 10 Evolution stones and another heep of crystals I bet.

 

Now tell me that Diablo 3 is bad :P

Damn. o.O I thought getting gear to +12 in TERA was bad. This sounds like an absolute nightmare.

reeereee

Originally posted by Caladiel

RNG in gear progression

 

Your weapon in the game is the single most important thing you own, and the only way to get a good weapon is through the evolution and feeding system. Let me tell you though, the chance of succes is abysmally low at higher levels.

Fail an evolution? Have fun grinding for another week to try again, and forget about doing that instance you otherwise could have done during that time.

Still think it'll pull any number worthy of NCSoft's time?

I have my doubts at this point, since history has told me that games with such systems with high rng might have had a high surge at the start but in the end fatality flopped or went F2P.

(Aion just to name one)

 

Any counter arguments?

You're a poor student of history then.  A high surge at launch followed by a plummeting subscription rate describes every MMO release in the last 8 years (with the lone exception of FFXIV) so your statement in red is pure false attribution as nearly all games with no rng have experienced exactly the same phenomenon. 

 

I don't disagree that rng sucks but what you are pointing out occurs much more broadly than just Korea games in the Western market.

Caladiel

Originally posted by reeereee

Originally posted by Caladiel

RNG in gear progression

 

Your weapon in the game is the single most important thing you own, and the only way to get a good weapon is through the evolution and feeding system. Let me tell you though, the chance of succes is abysmally low at higher levels.

Fail an evolution? Have fun grinding for another week to try again, and forget about doing that instance you otherwise could have done during that time.

Still think it'll pull any number worthy of NCSoft's time?

I have my doubts at this point, since history has told me that games with such systems with high rng might have had a high surge at the start but in the end fatality flopped or went F2P.

(Aion just to name one)

 

Any counter arguments?

You're a poor student of history then.  A high surge at launch followed by a plummeting subscription rate describes every MMO release in the last 8 years (with the lone exception of FFXIV) so your statement in red is pure false attribution as nearly all games with no rng have experienced exactly the same phenomenon. 

 

I don't disagree that rng sucks but what you are pointing out occurs much more broadly than just Korea games in the Western market.

I'm talking Korean mmo's here. Western mmo's will always have the up-down phenomenon because western players are more fickle and impatient when it comes to games.

Overhyping (which almost every dumb publisher does) does not help a game, which is what happened to most of the games (Age of Conan, Wildstar, SWOTOR, and then some others). Too much excitement followed by disappointment.

I have Lineage 2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, and then also Blade & Soul as an example. I've played these and then a few more inbetween that I forgot because of their abysmal mechanics.

FFXIV is a japanese mmo, and a Final Fantasy game. They (Square Enix) have more of a grip of what frustrates players in a game since they've been in the RPG business for ages.

They have next to no RNG in their game except for the drops from bosses, which I do not mind at all.

reeereee

Originally posted by Caladiel

Originally posted by reeereee

Originally posted by Caladiel

RNG in gear progression

 

Your weapon in the game is the single most important thing you own, and the only way to get a good weapon is through the evolution and feeding system. Let me tell you though, the chance of succes is abysmally low at higher levels.

Fail an evolution? Have fun grinding for another week to try again, and forget about doing that instance you otherwise could have done during that time.

Still think it'll pull any number worthy of NCSoft's time?

I have my doubts at this point, since history has told me that games with such systems with high rng might have had a high surge at the start but in the end fatality flopped or went F2P.

(Aion just to name one)

 

Any counter arguments?

You're a poor student of history then.  A high surge at launch followed by a plummeting subscription rate describes every MMO release in the last 8 years (with the lone exception of FFXIV) so your statement in red is pure false attribution as nearly all games with no rng have experienced exactly the same phenomenon. 

 

I don't disagree that rng sucks but what you are pointing out occurs much more broadly than just Korea games in the Western market.

I'm talking Korean mmo's here. Western mmo's will always have the up-down phenomenon because western players are more fickle and impatient when it comes to games.

Overhyping (which almost every dumb publisher does) does not help a game, which is what happened to most of the games (Age of Conan, Wildstar, SWOTOR, and then some others). Too much excitement followed by disappointment.

I have Lineage 2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, and then also Blade & Soul as an example. I've played these and then a few more inbetween that I forgot because of their abysmal mechanics.

FFXIV is a japanese mmo, and a Final Fantasy game. They (Square Enix) have more of a grip of what frustrates players in a game since they've been in the RPG business for ages.

They have next to no RNG in their game except for the drops from bosses, which I do not mind at all.

Ah, so your thesis is that even though every game (with one exception) entering the Western market in the last 10 years experiences exactly the same up and down phenomenon you can magically parse out that for Western developed games it's because of overhyping and for Korean games it's because of rng.

 

It's a bit like saying when I throw and apple up in the air and it comes back down to earth that is because of gravity, but if I throw an orange up in the air and it comes back down, well, that is some other force that is completely different than gravity because gravity is only for apples.

Sojhin

I think it has failed already due to word of mouth. My friends and I tried the beta and all hype died.

reeereee

Originally posted by Sojhin
I think it has failed already due to word of mouth. My friends and I tried the beta and all hype died.

If negative word of mouth could sink a Korean game before it reached the Western market then there should have been like 5 people signing up for Trion's Archage beta.

Caladiel

Originally posted by reeereee

Originally posted by Caladiel

Originally posted by reeereee

Originally posted by Caladiel

RNG in gear progression

 

Your weapon in the game is the single most important thing you own, and the only way to get a good weapon is through the evolution and feeding system. Let me tell you though, the chance of succes is abysmally low at higher levels.

Fail an evolution? Have fun grinding for another week to try again, and forget about doing that instance you otherwise could have done during that time.

Still think it'll pull any number worthy of NCSoft's time?

I have my doubts at this point, since history has told me that games with such systems with high rng might have had a high surge at the start but in the end fatality flopped or went F2P.

(Aion just to name one)

 

Any counter arguments?

You're a poor student of history then.  A high surge at launch followed by a plummeting subscription rate describes every MMO release in the last 8 years (with the lone exception of FFXIV) so your statement in red is pure false attribution as nearly all games with no rng have experienced exactly the same phenomenon. 

 

I don't disagree that rng sucks but what you are pointing out occurs much more broadly than just Korea games in the Western market.

I'm talking Korean mmo's here. Western mmo's will always have the up-down phenomenon because western players are more fickle and impatient when it comes to games.

Overhyping (which almost every dumb publisher does) does not help a game, which is what happened to most of the games (Age of Conan, Wildstar, SWOTOR, and then some others). Too much excitement followed by disappointment.

I have Lineage 2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, and then also Blade & Soul as an example. I've played these and then a few more inbetween that I forgot because of their abysmal mechanics.

FFXIV is a japanese mmo, and a Final Fantasy game. They (Square Enix) have more of a grip of what frustrates players in a game since they've been in the RPG business for ages.

They have next to no RNG in their game except for the drops from bosses, which I do not mind at all.

Ah, so your thesis is that even though every game (with one exception) entering the Western market in the last 10 years experiences exactly the same up and down phenomenon you can magically parse out that for Western developed games it's because of overhyping and for Korean games it's because of rng.

 

It's a bit like saying when I throw and apple up in the air and it comes back down to earth that is because of gravity, but if I throw an orange up in the air and it comes back down, well, that is some other force that is completely different than gravity because gravity is only for apples.

I honestly don't see your point in comparing mmo's with gravity. Your analogy is complete bull. You should practice some reading comprehension.

For korean/eastern games is due to overhyping and later on it dies (when more people reach a decent level) due to the RNG involved in progression. Overhyping kills anything if the product disappoints, regardless of where the product originated.

The western developers sadly have a heavier hand at this, so it's more prominent.

Eastern market is more "adjusted" to the mechanic of RNG, the western market is more adjusted to the concept of impatience and "right now matters".

Boneserino

Gambling and luck is a huge part of Asian culture.   They absolutely love it or at least respect it in all parts their life.

 

Here in NA it is simply a get rich quick scheme.

 

So different games for different cultures that don't always mesh.

Pepeq

Why would they release the game in the west when all the people who ever cared to play it already are?

JJ82

Originally posted by Caladiel

RNG in gear progression

Any counter arguments?

 Yes.

You don't play a game because its fun, you play only if you have the best gear, thus your opinion holds no value on this topic.

The game will never be released here anyway due to prudes that cant take seeing skin in a game...because of some sky god priest that lived together behind stone walls during the dark ages believed it was immoral.

Anyway, the game is a blast and I will continue to play the Japanese version until something better comes along.

axtranti

Diablo 3 is shit it self, if excrement had a predecessor, Diablo 3 would be it.

skeaser

That's supposedly what NC is working on before release. They claim the translation/localization is done, now they're focused on fixing mechanics that would not appeal to the west. We'll see...

Darksworm

Originally posted by Torval

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Caladiel

RNG in gear progression

Any counter arguments?

Doesn't Diablo III have complete RNG in all its gear?

He explained in the follow up post, but you can summarize it by saying NCSoft heavily monetizes RNG in their gear progression, whether that is by subscription and time-sinks or through a cash shop. I think this is why NCSoft's Korean games stumble here (Lineage, L2, Aion).

This. The issue is that NCSoft builds this into their game to make money via their shops and by locking players in. Its a lot harder to quit when you've put toms of time and effort into something, and they exploit the psychology of that. Its why Lineage 2 still runs. That game isn't that good but lots of people won't quit because they've dumped ridiculous amounts of time and/or money into it n