1. Superdata lumps all types of games together as 'MMOs'. Many of these would truly be better defined as MO (Multiplayer Online). The information that they make public is averages of all these games... and is a good generalization, but not very accurate for any particular genre. However... they SELL the reports that have breakdowns by genre and type, because while the averages may garner attention, the specifics are worth money.
2.F2P has a lot lower retention than P2P (within the same genre). Most of the attrition in F2P games is in the first 3 days (with the majority in the first day/first session), P2P generally can get a user to log in more than once. However, when you measure spenders in a F2P environment vs spenders in a P2P environment you find that F2P has a much better retention, due to the fact that they typically do not become a spender immediately.
3. F2P has a lot lower Cost per Acquisition (CPA) than P2P, which is the main benefit of F2P. However, without immediate monetization (Founders packs etc) F2P does not initially monetize as well as P2P and can take as long as a year to catch up. It is usually the third year that bring in the best monetization. F2P is a much longer investment than P2P. The best scenario is to launch P2P, then convert to F2P when the sales slow (after 1 year, before 2 years).
Lastly. I want to say that the 'reasons' that are commonly attributed to why new players leave have more often than not proven to be incorrect. Things like game balance issues, or even how aggressive the cash shop is (P2W) have very little to do with the majority of attrition. The reality is that F2P games have a very short time in the initial play session to hook a new user, else they never log in again. This can be as short as 10 seconds in a mobile game, or as long as 10 minutes in a PC MMORPG. This is really what determines the largest amount of churn, and it is where it is most critical to retain a new player. P2P games have much more time (usually 2-3 play sessions) to hook a new user.
Its very simple people are searching for more meaning in life ..drugs,sex,parties,gaming you name it . These activities seem to fill that inter void in us for a moment but we never seem to have that satisfaction so we keep on searching and looking for that great awesome experience
I feel bad for this generation because all you people grew up in this artificial reality playing video games before you could walk talk or think for yourself and and you play these games looking for answers,looking for thrills, looking for a turn on, looking for a sign
Its time to stop playing games and seek your true inner self, you have a soul and that soul has a deep desire to find real truth you will not inter in by a machine, program or game ..you know the one I speak of . God loves you just take 10 minutes a day and play a game of reality and pray a simple request ---> If you are out there show me
Its very simple people are searching for more meaning in life ..drugs,sex,parties,gaming you name it . These activities seem to fill that inter void in us for a moment but we never seem to have that satisfaction so we keep on searching and looking for that great awesome experience
I feel bad for this generation because all you people grew up in this artificial reality playing video games before you could walk talk or think for yourself and and you play these games looking for answers,looking for thrills, looking for a turn on, looking for a sign
Its time to stop playing games and seek your true inner self, you have a soul and that soul has a deep desire to find real truth you will not inter in by a machine, program or game ..you know the one I speak of . God loves you just take 10 minutes a day and play a game of reality and pray a simple request ---> If you are out there show me
Thanks for sharing. All the best.
Reality is a 12 hour shift at work and when I pray it is simply for it to end!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Games made now a days don't hook me like they used too. I play FTPs and subs. I give em about 2 maybe 3 months then cancel. I'm a lot older and more wiser to the MMO market now, and due to a few failed relationships from my past as being a power gamer and not playing all day and night, and calling in to work for that BIG raid only to achieve nothing (hind sight). I stayed interested in FF reborn 2 months. the PvP sucked for my tastes and I didn't want to do the WOW PVE side of it.
I realize at this point in my life I cant put my family on hold for a raid. This has made me become more casual and thus not spending as much on the game or trying to compete with the powergamer. I was in denial at first, but I recognize if I cant keep up with the power gamer in the beginning of a new launch then I am doomed to be THAT guy that solos. I don't play MMOs to solo.
So for various reasons I have listed, the current MMO market doesn't keep my interests for very long. I don't know if its a value/age/maturity that I have acquired in playing MMOs since UOs first launch but they just aren't interesting to me as much or require too much time I cant offer for end game. I have even gone back to Dark Age of Cheat A lot several times and the way the Devs delay getting out important content instead of fluff makes me click on the <cancel Sub> button.
F2P is not the devil it's when they make their games Pay to Progress. That's what all these sub only supporters should be talking about but instead, the go over to Buy to Play games and then completely ignore the fact that they are paying to progress instead of playing to progress but they'll hypocritically turn right back around and attack F2P games that don't support that model such as the ones with cosmetics only in the stores or sub games with stores with nothing of consequence but fun items like pets and mounts that you don't NEED but are fun to have.
They seriously need to stop being duped into paying for these pay to progress models and get on board with economic models like Rift. But I'm sure some of them will read which games I put into that category and throw our their brainwashed theories as to why those games aren't pay to progress all the while giving those developers their hard earned cash because it happens to be the in thing to do right now.
I wish superdata wouldn't lump everything into their MMO category. Moba and world of tank population is far greater than mmorpg's so its impossible to draw any conclusions how f2p works for mmorpg's.
To make their numbers even more of a mess, they count swtor, tera, lotro and rift as P2P games, while counting gw2 as f2p.
Superdata is beyond a mess, I'm surprised this site is even using their name let alone their "data". These guys couldn't classify colours let alone video games.
For shame, mmorpg.com.
When you list Hearthstone a 1v1 digital trading card game as a MMO you lose any and all credibility.
Agreeing - superdata is cruddy date. I'm surprised it made it to a promoted article. Once I saw that I can't take the article seriously because of the source.
They know that they misuse the terms and call things MMOs that aren't - right here they accentuate it by calling them what they are. So, something is a 'MOBA' or 'Shooter Game' when you want to do honest comparison... any other time it's an MMO because it opens for reporting that free to play is the bees knees both in earnings and population - so very two-faced and marketing driven - that's their logic.
Despite the recent trend toward so-called MOBAs, we see a distinct difference in earnings per player within even a single company. Take Valve. Despite being on the same digital platform (Steam) and likely relying on the same in-house experience with regards to sales tactics, Team Fortress 2 earns almost three times more per player than DotA2. One explanation is the growing trend toward user-generated content: letting players share in the riches stimulates both the production of and demand for in-game items.
"
Why do people still quote Superdata? All they do is manipulate data for marketing purposes. That's their job.
I wish superdata wouldn't lump everything into their MMO category. Moba and world of tank population is far greater than mmorpg's so its impossible to draw any conclusions how f2p works for mmorpg's.
To make their numbers even more of a mess, they count swtor, tera, lotro and rift as P2P games, while counting gw2 as f2p.
Superdata is beyond a mess, I'm surprised this site is even using their name let alone their "data". These guys couldn't classify colours let alone video games.
For shame, mmorpg.com.
When you list Hearthstone a 1v1 digital trading card game as a MMO you lose any and all credibility.
Agreeing - superdata is cruddy date. I'm surprised it made it to a promoted article. Once I saw that I can't take the article seriously because of the source.
They know that they misuse the terms and call things MMOs that aren't - right here they accentuate it by calling them what they are. So, something is a 'MOBA' or 'Shooter Game' when you want to do honest comparison... any other time it's an MMO because it opens for reporting that free to play is the bees knees both in earnings and population - so very two-faced and marketing driven - that's their logic.
Despite the recent trend toward so-called MOBAs, we see a distinct difference in earnings per player within even a single company. Take Valve. Despite being on the same digital platform (Steam) and likely relying on the same in-house experience with regards to sales tactics, Team Fortress 2 earns almost three times more per player than DotA2. One explanation is the growing trend toward user-generated content: letting players share in the riches stimulates both the production of and demand for in-game items.
"
Why do people still quote Superdata? All they do is manipulate data for marketing purposes. That's their job.
No their job is to sell their data to companies, which they do.
They information they have is proprietary which means they wont release a more in depth. So they are certainly more accurate than you are or else they would be buying the data from you. It seems to me that you are simply not happy, the numbers do no match your version of reality.
The chart is just a bone they throw to the cheapstakes aka you.
Why do people still quote Superdata? All they do is manipulate data for marketing purposes. That's their job.
IT'S NOT WHAT I WANT TO BLEIVE ITS WRONG ITS EVIL MAKE IT GO AWAY
*grabs pitchfork and joins in*
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Why do people still quote Superdata? All they do is manipulate data for marketing purposes. That's their job.
IT'S NOT WHAT I WANT TO BLEIVE ITS WRONG ITS EVIL MAKE IT GO AWAY
*grabs pitchfork and joins in*
Well of course, it must be true, they say it on the internet after all.
How about...companies publish said data on their own...wait, they don't, they keep it to themselves, but of course they will freely provide it to SuperData for some reason.
Skepticism of these numbers is not totally unfounded.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Why do people still quote Superdata? All they do is manipulate data for marketing purposes. That's their job.
IT'S NOT WHAT I WANT TO BLEIVE ITS WRONG ITS EVIL MAKE IT GO AWAY
*grabs pitchfork and joins in*
Well of course, it must be true, they say it on the internet after all.
How about...companies publish said data on their own...wait, they don't, they keep it to themselves, but of course they will freely provide it to SuperData for some reason.
Skepticism of these numbers is not totally unfounded.
Honestly the data and numbers don't even matter if you can't classify the categories your putting them in correctly.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Why do people still quote Superdata? All they do is manipulate data for marketing purposes. That's their job.
IT'S NOT WHAT I WANT TO BLEIVE ITS WRONG ITS EVIL MAKE IT GO AWAY
*grabs pitchfork and joins in*
Well of course, it must be true, they say it on the internet after all.
How about...companies publish said data on their own...wait, they don't, they keep it to themselves, but of course they will freely provide it to SuperData for some reason.
Skepticism of these numbers is not totally unfounded.
Honestly the data and numbers don't even matter if you can't classify the categories your putting them in correctly.
Wish people put this much skepticism into other data...like climate, vaccines, and government reports.
Why do people still quote Superdata? All they do is manipulate data for marketing purposes. That's their job.
IT'S NOT WHAT I WANT TO BLEIVE ITS WRONG ITS EVIL MAKE IT GO AWAY
*grabs pitchfork and joins in*
What an ironic post coming from you of all people. You are always holding people accountable for the information they post.
No, actually, what I do is ask that people have data or facts to support what they are trying to pass off as fact. Look, the crazy around SuperData on these forums is at a level far beyond even New Earth Creationism. You've been told where the data comes from, what entities contribute to it and what entities find it viable. It has been selling for years now, so logic (if we dare to do go there) would dictate that if it was bullshit, the industry would have long since called them on it, as none of these companies or their employees exist in a bubble.
But it's not what you or many others here want to see. It conflicts with your beliefs, so in complete defiaNce of logic and reason you point and laugh at it, get angry when it is presented, and ... well, you act like crazy people, man. You act like Columbus just told you the earth is ... now, now, don't laugh here. he's trying to be cool.... he says... get this... The earth is round! LOL! Who let that guy off the boat anyway, amiright? AMIRIGHT?
I'm sorry, but the lunacy is the biggest hindrance to any kind of reasonable discussion here.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Why do people still quote Superdata? All they do is manipulate data for marketing purposes. That's their job.
IT'S NOT WHAT I WANT TO BLEIVE ITS WRONG ITS EVIL MAKE IT GO AWAY
*grabs pitchfork and joins in*
What an ironic post coming from you of all people. You are always holding people accountable for the information they post.
No, actually, what I do is ask that people have data or facts to support what they are trying to pass off as fact. Look, the crazy around SuperData on these forums is at a level far beyond even New Earth Creationism. You've been told where the data comes from, what entities contribute to it and what entities find it viable. It has been selling for years now, so logic (if we dare to do go there) would dictate that if it was bullshit, the industry would have long since called them on it, as none of these companies or their employees exist in a bubble.
But it's not what you or many others here want to see. It conflicts with your beliefs, so in complete defiaNce of logic and reason you point and laugh at it, get angry when it is presented, and ... well, you act like crazy people, man. You act like Columbus just told you the earth is ... now, now, don't laugh here. he's trying to be cool.... he says... get this... The earth is round! LOL! Who let that guy off the boat anyway, amiright? AMIRIGHT?
I'm sorry, but the lunacy is the biggest hindrance to any kind of reasonable discussion here.
It's not lunacy to question a list of top MMOs that features Hearthstone in it. It's not the validity of their sources, but the context in which it's presented that makes this data look "Cherry-Picked" for better marketing material.
You argue that those questioning Superdata are the ones who are not acting rational. But what about those who continue to post it? The obvious agendas behind the posts and the attempts to prove something that, at this point in time, really cannot be proven, seems more like lunacy to me than questioning unverifiable information sources.
Why do people still quote Superdata? All they do is manipulate data for marketing purposes. That's their job.
IT'S NOT WHAT I WANT TO BLEIVE ITS WRONG ITS EVIL MAKE IT GO AWAY
*grabs pitchfork and joins in*
What an ironic post coming from you of all people. You are always holding people accountable for the information they post.
No, actually, what I do is ask that people have data or facts to support what they are trying to pass off as fact. Look, the crazy around SuperData on these forums is at a level far beyond even New Earth Creationism. You've been told where the data comes from, what entities contribute to it and what entities find it viable. It has been selling for years now, so logic (if we dare to do go there) would dictate that if it was bullshit, the industry would have long since called them on it, as none of these companies or their employees exist in a bubble.
But it's not what you or many others here want to see. It conflicts with your beliefs, so in complete defiaNce of logic and reason you point and laugh at it, get angry when it is presented, and ... well, you act like crazy people, man. You act like Columbus just told you the earth is ... now, now, don't laugh here. he's trying to be cool.... he says... get this... The earth is round! LOL! Who let that guy off the boat anyway, amiright? AMIRIGHT?
I'm sorry, but the lunacy is the biggest hindrance to any kind of reasonable discussion here.
It's not lunacy to question a list of top MMOs that features Hearthstone in it. It's not the validity of their sources, but the context in which it's presented that makes this data look "Cherry-Picked" for better marketing material.
You argue that those questioning Superdata are the ones who are not acting rational. But what about those who continue to post it? The obvious agendas behind the posts and the attempts to prove something that, at this point in time, really cannot be proven, seems more like lunacy to me than questioning unverifiable information sources.
Pretty sure if it conflicted with his beliefs he'd be on your side.
Actually what I think Geezer is saying is that the data, does not conflict his belief, but it is irrelevant to the issue, because it is flawed from the perspective that it does not represent the issue.
Anyway go ahead and believe it if you like. Many obviously do, probably because it agrees with their beliefs.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
All game analysts have to do is login to these games and try to do any progression to see that these aren't F2P or B2P models they are Pay to Progress economically and that's never ever good for the game design. And before some idiot comes on here and says that's all they can do, Rift and LOTRO are two great examples of what to do with your shop.
It's not lunacy to question a list of top MMOs that features Hearthstone in it. It's not the validity of their sources, but the context in which it's presented that makes this data look "Cherry-Picked" for better marketing material.
You argue that those questioning Superdata are the ones who are not acting rational. But what about those who continue to post it? The obvious agendas behind the posts and the attempts to prove something that, at this point in time, really cannot be proven, seems more like lunacy to me than questioning unverifiable information sources.
It's pretty telling just how little people know about the genre when a new genre evolves from RTS mods goes from DOTA to MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) gets crazy popular with LOL and then people want to call 5v5 match based gameplay a MMO.
The most basic of common sense can be applied to figure out the fact that Hearthstone a 1v1 CCG is not a MMO. Yet there it is listed on superdata, they have no clue wtf a MMO is.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Comments
A few quick comments:
1. Superdata lumps all types of games together as 'MMOs'. Many of these would truly be better defined as MO (Multiplayer Online). The information that they make public is averages of all these games... and is a good generalization, but not very accurate for any particular genre. However... they SELL the reports that have breakdowns by genre and type, because while the averages may garner attention, the specifics are worth money.
2.F2P has a lot lower retention than P2P (within the same genre). Most of the attrition in F2P games is in the first 3 days (with the majority in the first day/first session), P2P generally can get a user to log in more than once. However, when you measure spenders in a F2P environment vs spenders in a P2P environment you find that F2P has a much better retention, due to the fact that they typically do not become a spender immediately.
3. F2P has a lot lower Cost per Acquisition (CPA) than P2P, which is the main benefit of F2P. However, without immediate monetization (Founders packs etc) F2P does not initially monetize as well as P2P and can take as long as a year to catch up. It is usually the third year that bring in the best monetization. F2P is a much longer investment than P2P. The best scenario is to launch P2P, then convert to F2P when the sales slow (after 1 year, before 2 years).
Lastly. I want to say that the 'reasons' that are commonly attributed to why new players leave have more often than not proven to be incorrect. Things like game balance issues, or even how aggressive the cash shop is (P2W) have very little to do with the majority of attrition. The reality is that F2P games have a very short time in the initial play session to hook a new user, else they never log in again. This can be as short as 10 seconds in a mobile game, or as long as 10 minutes in a PC MMORPG. This is really what determines the largest amount of churn, and it is where it is most critical to retain a new player. P2P games have much more time (usually 2-3 play sessions) to hook a new user.
Thanks for sharing. All the best.
Reality is a 12 hour shift at work and when I pray it is simply for it to end!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
I am more than casually familiar with the Games (US).... so no, I have not forgotten.
Games made now a days don't hook me like they used too. I play FTPs and subs. I give em about 2 maybe 3 months then cancel. I'm a lot older and more wiser to the MMO market now, and due to a few failed relationships from my past as being a power gamer and not playing all day and night, and calling in to work for that BIG raid only to achieve nothing (hind sight). I stayed interested in FF reborn 2 months. the PvP sucked for my tastes and I didn't want to do the WOW PVE side of it.
I realize at this point in my life I cant put my family on hold for a raid. This has made me become more casual and thus not spending as much on the game or trying to compete with the powergamer. I was in denial at first, but I recognize if I cant keep up with the power gamer in the beginning of a new launch then I am doomed to be THAT guy that solos. I don't play MMOs to solo.
So for various reasons I have listed, the current MMO market doesn't keep my interests for very long. I don't know if its a value/age/maturity that I have acquired in playing MMOs since UOs first launch but they just aren't interesting to me as much or require too much time I cant offer for end game. I have even gone back to Dark Age of Cheat A lot several times and the way the Devs delay getting out important content instead of fluff makes me click on the <cancel Sub> button.
F2P is not the devil it's when they make their games Pay to Progress. That's what all these sub only supporters should be talking about but instead, the go over to Buy to Play games and then completely ignore the fact that they are paying to progress instead of playing to progress but they'll hypocritically turn right back around and attack F2P games that don't support that model such as the ones with cosmetics only in the stores or sub games with stores with nothing of consequence but fun items like pets and mounts that you don't NEED but are fun to have.
They seriously need to stop being duped into paying for these pay to progress models and get on board with economic models like Rift. But I'm sure some of them will read which games I put into that category and throw our their brainwashed theories as to why those games aren't pay to progress all the while giving those developers their hard earned cash because it happens to be the in thing to do right now.
Why do people still quote Superdata? All they do is manipulate data for marketing purposes. That's their job.
No their job is to sell their data to companies, which they do.
They information they have is proprietary which means they wont release a more in depth. So they are certainly more accurate than you are or else they would be buying the data from you. It seems to me that you are simply not happy, the numbers do no match your version of reality.
The chart is just a bone they throw to the cheapstakes aka you.
IT'S NOT WHAT I WANT TO BLEIVE ITS WRONG ITS EVIL MAKE IT GO AWAY
*grabs pitchfork and joins in*
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Well of course, it must be true, they say it on the internet after all.
How about...companies publish said data on their own...wait, they don't, they keep it to themselves, but of course they will freely provide it to SuperData for some reason.
Skepticism of these numbers is not totally unfounded.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Honestly the data and numbers don't even matter if you can't classify the categories your putting them in correctly.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Wish people put this much skepticism into other data...like climate, vaccines, and government reports.
What an ironic post coming from you of all people. You are always holding people accountable for the information they post.
No, actually, what I do is ask that people have data or facts to support what they are trying to pass off as fact. Look, the crazy around SuperData on these forums is at a level far beyond even New Earth Creationism. You've been told where the data comes from, what entities contribute to it and what entities find it viable. It has been selling for years now, so logic (if we dare to do go there) would dictate that if it was bullshit, the industry would have long since called them on it, as none of these companies or their employees exist in a bubble.
But it's not what you or many others here want to see. It conflicts with your beliefs, so in complete defiaNce of logic and reason you point and laugh at it, get angry when it is presented, and ... well, you act like crazy people, man. You act like Columbus just told you the earth is ... now, now, don't laugh here. he's trying to be cool.... he says... get this... The earth is round! LOL! Who let that guy off the boat anyway, amiright? AMIRIGHT?
I'm sorry, but the lunacy is the biggest hindrance to any kind of reasonable discussion here.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It's not lunacy to question a list of top MMOs that features Hearthstone in it. It's not the validity of their sources, but the context in which it's presented that makes this data look "Cherry-Picked" for better marketing material.
You argue that those questioning Superdata are the ones who are not acting rational. But what about those who continue to post it? The obvious agendas behind the posts and the attempts to prove something that, at this point in time, really cannot be proven, seems more like lunacy to me than questioning unverifiable information sources.
Pretty sure if it conflicted with his beliefs he'd be on your side.
Actually what I think Geezer is saying is that the data, does not conflict his belief, but it is irrelevant to the issue, because it is flawed from the perspective that it does not represent the issue.
Anyway go ahead and believe it if you like. Many obviously do, probably because it agrees with their beliefs.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
The average person always presents data that supports their beliefs/or lack of.
....
Often that data is base on another analyst research.
.....
The average analyst research data based on a theory they are trying to support.
.......
Conclusion
...........
You can't authenticate anything unless you do your own research however, given the statistics you're probably doing it to support your own point.
.................
Which makes most research data biased and pointless.
It's pretty telling just how little people know about the genre when a new genre evolves from RTS mods goes from DOTA to MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) gets crazy popular with LOL and then people want to call 5v5 match based gameplay a MMO.
The most basic of common sense can be applied to figure out the fact that Hearthstone a 1v1 CCG is not a MMO. Yet there it is listed on superdata, they have no clue wtf a MMO is.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/