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Older MMO felt like world instead of McDonalds drive throughs.
Kiyoris
Member RarePosts: 2,130
Everyone who's been there knows what I mean when watching this video.
Comments
Know what you mean. ^^
It's just a change in times i'm afraid. When you can get most everything now with a click of a button, well...patience also flies with it. Any game that takes longer than 2 weeks to achieve max level is now called a "korean grinder". Which is really a shame I believe, maybe some day a game will come along and dispel with"end game" and levels and stuff like that...we can only hope.
Until then ...just play what ever game makes you happy weather it be mmo or single player, console or computer...just keep your eye towards the light. ^^
An interesting feature of the Chernarus map for Arma 2, is how every place seem original. That map was inspired by real terrain, but they had to keep the size down from what I read.
Every ridge, ditch, hill seem unique. A really strong sense of place. No wonder people love moving around on that big map.
Making a map is probably the only thing the devs at Bohemia Interactive know how to do though. Because they imo seem to be quality and immersion challenged.
This is pretty much how I feel too.
Now I know there are going to be people who come in here and get offended by that statement but that is how it feels. I don't hate new games (i do hate some practices) but they aren't what im looking for and theres nothing to take the place of what I used to get from the genre.
In reality, theres nearly that many who play classic EQ emu servers, not to mention those who actually play the live game.
Reality.
Sad but true.
One must also look at the context of when EQ came out and what other choices were there in Mmo's? It had a lot going for it at the time but since then the changes the industry has seen has garnered many more players.
Whether or not that change was a good thing is a topic for another thread though...
I actually do this, not with everquest but with a different game (ffxi) and still enjoy it despite extra hurdles that come as a result of it no longer being supported officially. I would easily take a newer game in that same vein over every single mmo that has come out since 2003 and any on the horizon at the moment. It isn't nostalgia in my case, I legitimately enjoy that style of game better.
You aren't allowed to say that. It can't possibly be true, and there's definitely no one else that feels that way. Also, any attempt to make a game for less than a million people to play is a waste of time and could never be profitable.
Think I covered all the bases.
Without getting into specifics, because its against policy, just one particular emu on its own hits 2k concurrent between its pve and pvp server and the active players exceed 10k players. Thats one project of the 10-20 populated ones, and theres another one thats about to launch that includes a couple more expansions. Its the most emulated game of all time, but I'm sure thats because theres only 20k people total that would play a new game with upgraded graphics and other new features 17 years later.
Despite the bad press over the air drops, small map and the early access bugs, H1Z1 reminds me a lot of the older games. I go out and make my own fun. No levels no grinding just living in the world. Barring any unpleasantness from the new bosses at daybreak I think the game has a silly amount of potential and if you want the no risk option just wait out the early access.
Almost went over my head with that.
In response to an old school game not being market-viable currently, where is the data supporting this? I spend a ton of time (way more than I should) looking through all kinds of mmo articles and data and I have never seen any evidence in support of this. Yes, a lot of people are ASKING for fast paced things these days but that does not mean that a slower paced game can't be enjoyed.
Just look at other genres with throwback games and the great success they have been having recently. Many of those have returned to slower pace and older mechanics too and yet have met with great success.
Basically, without actual data I don't think its reasonable to conclude that it couldn't work. Its a shame that you would write it off so easily that being the case even if you personally find old school mmos to be insufferable (as it doesnt have to have anything to do with you).
Thats faulty logic. People will often choose against something because the way it looks or because it lacks some feature that they're accustomed to, even if they like everything else about a game.
A real test will be when a game with better visuals and a few other modern features launches with those same classic mechanics underneath.
If you don't support games with features that you like, well enough to provide a living for the developers, you won't see any of those sorts of games. And developers have to be realistic about the number of players (and money) that their game will bring in. Or it will fail, or morph into something that will.
While I like immersion and virtual worlds, EQ (and UO too) had too many negatives for me play them at the time. It's not like those early game designers didn't make a ton of bad (or unintended consequences) decisions.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I do miss some of the immersion of those older games, but nostalgia does play a large part of it (even for those that don't believe so). I periodically go back and play older games I liked, and they're almost never exactly how you remember them. You tend to remember the good, and forget a lot of the bad.
EQ1 is no exception to this. While it did have some elements I'd love to see more of in newer games, I'm also aware enough to understand that such games wouldn't sell well enough in the current market. You could literaly take the exact build of current EQ (or even vanilla for that matter), and update all the models / textures as much as the game would allow without being reworked, and it's arguable whether or not you would actually recoup the cost of production. And it certainly wouldn't do much to help fund future projects.
Keep in mind, EQ was designed during a time of discovery. MMOs were still a new thing, and we were still trying to figure out what was possible with the technology. The internet was still in its youth, and the amount of spoiler info available wasn't nearly as instant as it is today. Now we know what's possible, and studios are trying to do what they can with current tech. Just like a magic show, it's a lot less fun once you glimpse behind the curtain. That's the world we live in now, whereas in the '90s MMOs were like a prolonged magic show. We had no idea what kind of tricks were possible.
It's unfortunate the things that were lost, but we've also gained a lot of good in return. Times change, and while it's fun to dwell a little, it's pointless to spend much time on it.
He was being sarcastic.
He actually likes old school Mmo's.
I think that is too much of an assumption really. I mean, why go off of an assumption? We have real throwback titles that are hitting solid popularity in todays market. I will grant that big name companies are not likely to take that risk but perhaps some of the not quite the same old school throwback mmos will show that the practices are not as reviled as people think they would be (like camelot unchained even though that is pvp focused ... or even look at lineage original which fairly recently was still the biggest money maker for its publisher despite its very advanced age). As said they arent quite the same thing but they're at least in a similar vein.
I do grow tired of the pseudo-facts you inject into every thread out of context.
Yes, those are the figures on modern mmos because thats the way they play. They are literally built that way. Usually within the first month all content can be completed and theres little to nothing left to accomplish, so yes, thats correct.
Now trying to apply that same principle to a game thats fundamentally different is where you err.
Frankly that is a logical fallacy kano. Yes, companies get statistical data but that does not mean that said statistics are telling the companies that nobody will play an EQ style game or even that the statistics are correct.
So until you have data that explicitly says that people are not interested in it, it remains an assumption on your part. Now, don't get me wrong, I and all the others here supporting old school mmos are ALSO making assumptions, the difference is that our assumption has no negative implications for you (you can keep playing what you like or requesting that which you do like) but your assumption would have us abandon that which we seek without evidence.
All it takes is one to break the trend.
Most follow what some may call 'conventional wisdom' in the business world but all it takes is one to challenge that perspective and, with its success, nudge the industry to at least have variety in the genre.
Will it happen? Unsure.
Can it happen? Absolutely.
They feel more like the kiddie play area than the drive thru to me...
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/I am aware of why companies seek the data they do but that doesnt make it infailable. I mean the one you linked had listed carbine as a customer and look how well they're doing.
And it is a logical fallacy, I explained exactly why it is. Im not saying your statement isn't valid, just the conclusion. Since you yourself have not seen the statistics you do not know what statistics were gathered. For all you know the only statistic gathered was related to the viability of the product they wanted to sell (say, wow style mmos). Do you see why I call that a logical fallacy? You are taking one POSSIBLE reason and assuming that to be the cause when in reality there are numerous possible reasons so the support is not anywhere near strong enough for that to be relied upon.
Well, im perfectly fine with the questions you pose. I think your opinion is perfectly valid but is just that, opinion. I don't think you should be standing in opposition to this especially if you like old school mmos and would perhaps like to see a more modern version of one. As you are saying, the companies can handle the business aspects, why should a player such as yourself who doesnt have all the information that they have speak out on their behalf?
I understand WHY you think what you do, I just don't see that as a reason not to ask for an mmo of this type (as if it truely isn't viable it never will be made regardless of requests). Better I think, to hope for the best and prepare for the worst. (in fact, i have found a lot of people who would love an mmo like this but refuse to ask for one because they have in their mind decided its not possible as you have. Just think, the statistical tables could actually be flipped if people chose to speak out in defense of these games regardless of if they felt it could be done. We need to stand and be counted so that real statistics can actually be drawn in the first place)
I feel like you really need to go deeper than just slow paced. Sure it was but to that I would say a happy medium could be reached and 3 days to max level is even worse than taking it slow.
That and the whole "throwing the baby out with the bath water" thing. EQ had corpse runs, exp lose of death, camping, kill stealing, ninja looting, a horrible UI and other less than stellar features. Thing is the races, classes, open world (well zones), starting cities, factions, epic quests, progression, items, dungeons, swimming in water/lava, weather system, holy trinity class dependance creating a more social group focused game and tight nit community and lot's of other things are not just nostalgia they are solid game design.
So remaking EQ with the best of the old and new could be done.
Better graphics, UI, animations, and in general just a sexy modern EQ would be a game I feel myself and many others would enjoy.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Well said.
The problem isn't the statistics, its the application of statistics to something almost completely irrelevant. Outside of being loosely part of the same genre (an ever expanding genre), there is little else.
Its like saying its proven that children hate vegetables, but while that's true in general, few dislike carrots specifically. Then concluding meals with carrots will lack popularity with children because "children hate vegetables" and there's plenty of other food for them to eat besides vegetables.
The fact remains, there are no games like Everquest. There are, therefore, no sources of relevant data to prove or disprove their viability other than the lack of them, which is nothing less than subjective.
To continually misapply data lacking relevance is nothing short of dishonest.
The continuous hopping from one game to another does little to help too. I doubt personally any large company is willing to invest in this type of game but Pantheon is there. However Brad and his reputation put that game in jeopardy.
That video I have seen it before and each time I do I fell a tightness in my chest for lost times and good memories.