The RPG element in MMOs has been washed out over the years. The first MMOs had RPG tools like only slowly understanding a different races /say chat if you spoke to them, or listened to their 'say chat a lot.
Today its all about looking big and strong or small and crafty, that's the extent of the RPG element. The backstory of each race is just a small paragraph in some MMOs, really poor.
This whole discussion is based on the false definition of RPG. You can't go against the definition of word and create a thesis based on that very false definition. It is like opening a debate on how cars freezing gasoline is killing our planet. When cars run by burning gasoline and not freezing it. Role Playing Game. Its your fault you consider those quests and all that text to be completely meaningless. You do realize those quests are actually doing things like saving the princess or helping a farmer walk safely to the store. You expected everyone to use their imagination in a tabletop game and to ignore it completely in a mmo.
5 million people played tabletop rpg's and 1 billion people played graphical rpg's. The billion define the genre and not the few million.
Yes, "role playing" can be defined as doing anything in a certain role, like being a Paladin that saved the farm. In this I agree, technically, but I think the issue is to what degree one is role play in.
It would be like playing a tabletop game and having a script handed to you when you make a decision. You're still making choices in the game, they just aren't any different than the next ten players coming behind you.
Role-playing is there, just a lot more limited than it could be IMO.
Well time and usage establishes the definition of words. These RPGs have been this way for 35 years. A lot of (most?) RPG gamers haven't even been alive that long. Add to that the fact that they have many of the same core traits (unlike more questionable word usage, like applying "MMO" to non-massive multiplayer games.) and there's really just no reason to claim any modern videogame RPG isn't an RPG.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Today's gamers have told the DM (Dungeon Master) (aka MMO) that they don't want to do anything but kill stuff that is thrown at me. Just point me in the direction of stuff and I kill it. That doesn't mean the mmo isn't an rpg it just means the player isn't using it as an rpg. Google what does RPG mean. Yea I'm not making up definitions. Yes some mmo's are more directed in their rpg element but so were dungeon masters. Some of them gave you a direction and didn't let you stray off that path and some of them let you do the sanbox. It is still a RPG either way.
If you look at modern rpg board games you will see that role playing is alive and well and tgry succeed because the board games do not try and simplify to hit a wider market - they embrace what they are - very complex rule sets and scenarios to create an environment where groups of players can adapt the rules to suit how they roleplay. now rpg video games took on the role of the rule set and scenario and enriched the experience - but then in the mid 2000 thing changed - some 'designers' realised more people would play if they simplified the games, turning the games into something else. Thia is the equivelant of changing those wonderful niche board rpg into family board games to sell more., they may sell better, but all you end up with is another simplistic family board game.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
MMORPG's have never really been role playing games. Real rpg's require an imagination. MMORPG'S are more like graphically advanced chat rooms. Old Dungeons and Dragons or Magic plus other card games is where rp is.
This whole discussion is based on the false definition of RPG. You can't go against the definition of word and create a thesis based on that very false definition. It is like opening a debate on how cars freezing gasoline is killing our planet. When cars run by burning gasoline and not freezing it. Role Playing Game. Its your fault you consider those quests and all that text to be completely meaningless. You do realize those quests are actually doing things like saving the princess or helping a farmer walk safely to the store. You expected everyone to use their imagination in a tabletop game and to ignore it completely in a mmo.
5 million people played tabletop rpg's and 1 billion people played graphical rpg's. The billion define the genre and not the few million.
So if we are just going on numbers, the public decided what wines are best, not wine tasters. Veteran cars are rubbish, most people don't drive them. MacDonald's defines cuisine, more people eat there, simple as that.
Ridiculous. The larger group can have their own definition of what anything means, but they do not have the definitive definition. Nor do the smaller/original/more knowledgeable group, both are "correct" for those groups.
This whole discussion is based on the false definition of RPG. You can't go against the definition of word and create a thesis based on that very false definition. It is like opening a debate on how cars freezing gasoline is killing our planet. When cars run by burning gasoline and not freezing it. Role Playing Game. Its your fault you consider those quests and all that text to be completely meaningless. You do realize those quests are actually doing things like saving the princess or helping a farmer walk safely to the store. You expected everyone to use their imagination in a tabletop game and to ignore it completely in a mmo.
5 million people played tabletop rpg's and 1 billion people played graphical rpg's. The billion define the genre and not the few million.
So if we are just going on numbers, the public decided what wines are best, not wine tasters. Veteran cars are rubbish, most people don't drive them. MacDonald's defines cuisine, more people eat there, simple as that.
Ridiculous. The larger group can have their own definition of what anything means, but they do not have the definitive definition. Nor do the smaller/original/more knowledgeable group, both are "correct" for those groups.
The quality of story, quests, or puzzles is irrelevant in the descision if a game is a roleplaying game, or not.
Any shooter or action game can have good story, quests, or puzzles. That makes them better games. But that doesnt make them roleplaying games.
Roleplaying games are distinguished by having the ability to customize your character, i.e. having a lot of information about your character that describes this character however you see fit, meaning you can actually choose a role, and the ability to choose different courses of action, i.e. having chances to actually roleplay.
well, i am sorry to burst your bubbles guys, but PnP RPGs were all about progression.
you think a GM would ever let the team fight a dragon at lvl 1?
we once had that situation where one of our team jumped from the wagon to tame those wolves he heard in the background, and they fucking ate him alive (well, at least the GM had a hard time not to let mr "i am a ranger!" die).
and for the record, dices are NOT required in an RPG, the only reason they had those is because there was no other system to determine weather you hit something or not - which is like COMPLETELY NOT NEEDED on a computer based gaming system.
so, if you wanna roleplay, go for it, NO ONE stops you.
for example, if you'd be with me in a TS when playing games, you'd notice a huge difference between me playing WoW or diablo, different chars, different me.
roleplay is what YOU make of it, stop blaming games.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
It is pretty clear that MMORPGs fall into the RPG genre in the context of CRPGS. First off many CRPGs do not capture table top RPGness some do an ok job of it in a spiritual sort of way (obviously they can't capture a full on 5 group of friends around a table with a DM/GM).
Now having said that let's examine some of the sub-genres of the CRPG and other CRPG examples. Specifically let's look at ARPGs. ARPGs, when you boil it down, are all about one aspect of RPGs (and this existed before CRPGs). Namely Power-Gaming. Now its possible for an ARPG to be about story and other things, but by and large story is incidental. The entire game is about creating a character build via the character progression and gear progression to be as much of a killing machine as possible. Stories are generally a linear excuse to move a long maps and usually pretty shallow (yes diablo and all its sequels have a shallow story line, if you can't admit this you either have a problem or are simply not well informed).
Now lets look at Ultima 4 a huge world where character/party development was important but only one among many aspects of equal importance. Its a huge world with various consequneces and mental quandries, most of it left entirely open to your discovery. Its a world for you to react to as a person/character, both in what you can do in the world (inclduing combat and other things) and what you should do.
Finally let's look at Planscape:Torment, a D&D base game, whose overarching theme is solely about character, specifically your character and what makes you, you. "What can change the nature of a man?" The main villain? An aspect of you. The reason you can't die? Something messed with what makes you what you are. Much of the background lore? All various stories about different incaranations of yourself and you are constantly left with the question: "What made that guy different than me". All of this plays into the base parts of D&D itself and the mechanics of the game. The alignment system. There are various incarantions of yourself who line up to the various alignment combinations. The chaotic crazy you, the selfless you, the manipulative and controling you. And this time around which one are you choosing, unlike many CRPGs, its internally consistent that you can be any of the 9 alignments. In fact you have been them all at one point or another.
Now let's circle back and around and examine what MMORPGs, after examin some of these. To me MMORPGs are mostly just an outgrowth of ARPGs. Sure they started from MUDs really, but by and large they very closely follow the tropes and even the mechanics of ARPGs. They are basically exercises in power gaming and very little else. Could they be something else? Yes, just like ARPGs could have more layered on top of them and a few example have even tried, but by and large that is all decoration a nod to the greater part of the genre but always a side thing just there to provide some direction. Just like ARPGs they are RPGs purely reduced to the mechanics of the combat system. Sure there is a lot of text written into quests or whatever as some sort of story or whatever. But its all just incidental fluff.
When we look at a game like Torment we see something actually quite rare in D&D CRPGs, an actual full phsychological integration of what in the table top game is a key part of the RPG, the alignment system. The root, fundamental theme of the game fits in organically to the system. Your interactions with your followers do as well and even give insight into the various facets of the system. Many other D&D CRPG let you choose an alignment but had very little actual effect on anything. In Pool of Radiance there were a few case where alignment mattered, certain interactions one or two swords had alignment resrtictions. But by and large it was just some bit on your character sheet. Torment itself is almost a novel when it comes to story, if you read all the story you can get its a lot of words. But even more impressive is almost every single bit of it comes back to its original theme "What can change the nature of a man?" and when Ravel Puzzlewell rips something integral to your nature as a human from you what are the consequences to "you" and everyone else? Everything revolves around this. This is the game. In addition you can also make a mechanically powerful party.
MMORPGs are the reverse everything revolves around twinking out your character via RNG, just like an ARPG. Not only is it power gaming but its random. Many CRPGs have actually been non-random in important ways. In addition to power gaming to can get some minor bits of story here and there but they are not the game. They exist in the game but they are not the theme of the entire reason the game was made.
It is essentially a VoIP table top RPG platform to run table top rpg games over the internet. You have a GM and players. Dice rolls, maps with character tokens. You can either RP using voice or text and text has different modes for actions, speaking and ooc. You are ran through modules either created and completely hand made or purchased modules already made. I have an ultimate license where no player has to pay a dime to join in and with skype, communication is free as well. I used to run adventures in the evenings during the week but my former players finished their campaign and went their own way. Might be something to look at.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
The thing is, mmorpg is a rpg... but the people don't "RP" they treat it as a dungeon crawler or a action game gotta get to the end type of deal. If people would take a moment to actually RP most game qualities would skyrocket more then what they are today. Many games out there that have bad rep like swtor, lotro, rift, etc can get boring quick if all you do is race to the end for the "endgame" which mmo shouldn't have due to there is no end. My advice to the community start roleplaying, no that doesn't mean cybering actually means make your own stories within the universe you like to be with.
A man who fears nothing is a man who loves nothing; and if you love nothing, what joy is there in your life?
A game had to cultivate and support role play- when a game punishes role play by devaluing role play elements like crafting/gathering etc then that is a problem. Very difficult to role play being a warrior for example if you must farm x hours every week or you become 1 shot fodder.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by etharn The thing is, mmorpg is a rpg... but the people don't "RP" they treat it as a dungeon crawler or a action game gotta get to the end type of deal. If people would take a moment to actually RP most game qualities would skyrocket more then what they are today. Many games out there that have bad rep like swtor, lotro, rift, etc can get boring quick if all you do is race to the end for the "endgame" which mmo shouldn't have due to there is no end. My advice to the community start roleplaying, no that doesn't mean cybering actually means make your own stories within the universe you like to be with.
Well that specific form of RP was never what videogame RPGs were about. You didn't RP in that way in Ultima or Final Fantasy or Wizardry.
In the broader sense of course you play a role in all of these games, but the degree of control you have over that role varies wildly.
While your advice may improve these games for some people, the simple fact is that most players aren't playing videogame RPGs for that type of gameplay.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Originally posted by etharn The thing is, mmorpg is a rpg... but the people don't "RP" they treat it as a dungeon crawler or a action game gotta get to the end type of deal. If people would take a moment to actually RP most game qualities would skyrocket more then what they are today. Many games out there that have bad rep like swtor, lotro, rift, etc can get boring quick if all you do is race to the end for the "endgame" which mmo shouldn't have due to there is no end. My advice to the community start roleplaying, no that doesn't mean cybering actually means make your own stories within the universe you like to be with.
Well that specific form of RP was never what videogame RPGs were about. You didn't RP in that way in Ultima or Final Fantasy or Wizardry.
In the broader sense of course you play a role in all of these games, but the degree of control you have over that role varies wildly.
While your advice may improve these games for some people, the simple fact is that most players aren't playing videogame RPGs for that type of gameplay.
Most do not that is true. When I played DDO, i ran with a few others and we actually RPed during a dungeon crawl. It was quite a hoot. Me being a Halfling Thief named Calypso, I got pushed around alot and made to scout ahead and get poisoned by a trap or caught on fire by a flaming jet trap. Also in LOTRO there are Kins that also do something like this as well. You just have to want to do it and engage, thats all. Most people though are in much to big a hurry. Not sure why though.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
Originally posted by Axehilt Originally posted by etharnThe thing is, mmorpg is a rpg... but the people don't "RP" they treat it as a dungeon crawler or a action game gotta get to the end type of deal. If people would take a moment to actually RP most game qualities would skyrocket more then what they are today. Many games out there that have bad rep like swtor, lotro, rift, etc can get boring quick if all you do is race to the end for the "endgame" which mmo shouldn't have due to there is no end. My advice to the community start roleplaying, no that doesn't mean cybering actually means make your own stories within the universe you like to be with.
Well that specific form of RP was never what videogame RPGs were about. You didn't RP in that way in Ultima or Final Fantasy or Wizardry.
In the broader sense of course you play a role in all of these games, but the degree of control you have over that role varies wildly.
While your advice may improve these games for some people, the simple fact is that most players aren't playing videogame RPGs for that type of gameplay.
Originally posted by Nadiai'm looking forward to Storiumhttp://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/05/09/storium-pen-and-paper-rpg-pc/“Players take on the role of author in addition to the role of the characters they’re writing about.” Will explains. You’re not just controlling a single character’s actions in a simulated world, you can control anything you can write about. So when you play the last card of a ‘strong’ outcome, you win control of the story from the narrator and get to explain exactly how everyone present, and even the environment itself, responds to you.So why would you ever play a weak card? Well that’s the other big departure Storium makes from videogames: a story where the hero succeeds at everything is boring, so you have to let yourself fail sometimes (or you’ll run out of cards). But unlike so many games where you win the fight but lost the cutscene, how and when that happens is entirely up to you. Jason Morningstar, the creator of Fiasco and one of Storium’s setting authors, puts it like this: “The best stories are told on erratic trajectories – highs and lows, victories and defeats – and games like Storium (and tabletop RPGs generally) systematise this very satisfying arc you see in cinema and literature.” Pen and paper RPGs have been trying to do this for the last ten years. Videogames? Not so much.https://storium.com/
Interesting, but I don't agree where they say you can't do that in a video game... It only takes a dedicated community of players. That's why dev content never really meets the criteria, because it can't create as it goes. Players can, given the tools to do so...
In SWG on the server I played on we created such events, filled in the cast, created the plot, and at times expanded it as we went. Rarely was the point to "kill the guy"... A popular one was capture/rescue missions, we involved everything from PVP, Jump to lightspeed, far off POI's, purchasable NPC's/ bases..etc..
It was a blast.. The sad part is, you could actually do this in any MMO today, but no one does.
I was there for a few of those. It got even better when they introduced the storyteller profession.
Agreed, that was a nice addition.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
The RPG element in MMOs has been washed out over the years. The first MMOs had RPG tools like only slowly understanding a different races /say chat if you spoke to them, or listened to their 'say chat a lot.
Today its all about looking big and strong or small and crafty, that's the extent of the RPG element. The backstory of each race is just a small paragraph in some MMOs, really poor.
This whole discussion is based on the false definition of RPG. You can't go against the definition of word and create a thesis based on that very false definition. It is like opening a debate on how cars freezing gasoline is killing our planet. When cars run by burning gasoline and not freezing it. Role Playing Game. Its your fault you consider those quests and all that text to be completely meaningless. You do realize those quests are actually doing things like saving the princess or helping a farmer walk safely to the store. You expected everyone to use their imagination in a tabletop game and to ignore it completely in a mmo.
5 million people played tabletop rpg's and 1 billion people played graphical rpg's. The billion define the genre and not the few million.
Yes, "role playing" can be defined as doing anything in a certain role, like being a Paladin that saved the farm. In this I agree, technically, but I think the issue is to what degree one is role play in.
It would be like playing a tabletop game and having a script handed to you when you make a decision. You're still making choices in the game, they just aren't any different than the next ten players coming behind you.
Role-playing is there, just a lot more limited than it could be IMO.
Turns out strawberries arn´t berries either...
It is a wild world we live in
This have been a good conversation
Well time and usage establishes the definition of words. These RPGs have been this way for 35 years. A lot of (most?) RPG gamers haven't even been alive that long. Add to that the fact that they have many of the same core traits (unlike more questionable word usage, like applying "MMO" to non-massive multiplayer games.) and there's really just no reason to claim any modern videogame RPG isn't an RPG.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
So if we are just going on numbers, the public decided what wines are best, not wine tasters. Veteran cars are rubbish, most people don't drive them. MacDonald's defines cuisine, more people eat there, simple as that.
Ridiculous. The larger group can have their own definition of what anything means, but they do not have the definitive definition. Nor do the smaller/original/more knowledgeable group, both are "correct" for those groups.
Yeah! Wine, fries, and old pickup trucks!
The quality of story, quests, or puzzles is irrelevant in the descision if a game is a roleplaying game, or not.
Any shooter or action game can have good story, quests, or puzzles. That makes them better games. But that doesnt make them roleplaying games.
Roleplaying games are distinguished by having the ability to customize your character, i.e. having a lot of information about your character that describes this character however you see fit, meaning you can actually choose a role, and the ability to choose different courses of action, i.e. having chances to actually roleplay.
well, i am sorry to burst your bubbles guys, but PnP RPGs were all about progression.
you think a GM would ever let the team fight a dragon at lvl 1?
we once had that situation where one of our team jumped from the wagon to tame those wolves he heard in the background, and they fucking ate him alive (well, at least the GM had a hard time not to let mr "i am a ranger!" die).
and for the record, dices are NOT required in an RPG, the only reason they had those is because there was no other system to determine weather you hit something or not - which is like COMPLETELY NOT NEEDED on a computer based gaming system.
so, if you wanna roleplay, go for it, NO ONE stops you.
for example, if you'd be with me in a TS when playing games, you'd notice a huge difference between me playing WoW or diablo, different chars, different me.
roleplay is what YOU make of it, stop blaming games.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
It is pretty clear that MMORPGs fall into the RPG genre in the context of CRPGS. First off many CRPGs do not capture table top RPGness some do an ok job of it in a spiritual sort of way (obviously they can't capture a full on 5 group of friends around a table with a DM/GM).
Now having said that let's examine some of the sub-genres of the CRPG and other CRPG examples. Specifically let's look at ARPGs. ARPGs, when you boil it down, are all about one aspect of RPGs (and this existed before CRPGs). Namely Power-Gaming. Now its possible for an ARPG to be about story and other things, but by and large story is incidental. The entire game is about creating a character build via the character progression and gear progression to be as much of a killing machine as possible. Stories are generally a linear excuse to move a long maps and usually pretty shallow (yes diablo and all its sequels have a shallow story line, if you can't admit this you either have a problem or are simply not well informed).
Now lets look at Ultima 4 a huge world where character/party development was important but only one among many aspects of equal importance. Its a huge world with various consequneces and mental quandries, most of it left entirely open to your discovery. Its a world for you to react to as a person/character, both in what you can do in the world (inclduing combat and other things) and what you should do.
Finally let's look at Planscape:Torment, a D&D base game, whose overarching theme is solely about character, specifically your character and what makes you, you. "What can change the nature of a man?" The main villain? An aspect of you. The reason you can't die? Something messed with what makes you what you are. Much of the background lore? All various stories about different incaranations of yourself and you are constantly left with the question: "What made that guy different than me". All of this plays into the base parts of D&D itself and the mechanics of the game. The alignment system. There are various incarantions of yourself who line up to the various alignment combinations. The chaotic crazy you, the selfless you, the manipulative and controling you. And this time around which one are you choosing, unlike many CRPGs, its internally consistent that you can be any of the 9 alignments. In fact you have been them all at one point or another.
Now let's circle back and around and examine what MMORPGs, after examin some of these. To me MMORPGs are mostly just an outgrowth of ARPGs. Sure they started from MUDs really, but by and large they very closely follow the tropes and even the mechanics of ARPGs. They are basically exercises in power gaming and very little else. Could they be something else? Yes, just like ARPGs could have more layered on top of them and a few example have even tried, but by and large that is all decoration a nod to the greater part of the genre but always a side thing just there to provide some direction. Just like ARPGs they are RPGs purely reduced to the mechanics of the combat system. Sure there is a lot of text written into quests or whatever as some sort of story or whatever. But its all just incidental fluff.
When we look at a game like Torment we see something actually quite rare in D&D CRPGs, an actual full phsychological integration of what in the table top game is a key part of the RPG, the alignment system. The root, fundamental theme of the game fits in organically to the system. Your interactions with your followers do as well and even give insight into the various facets of the system. Many other D&D CRPG let you choose an alignment but had very little actual effect on anything. In Pool of Radiance there were a few case where alignment mattered, certain interactions one or two swords had alignment resrtictions. But by and large it was just some bit on your character sheet. Torment itself is almost a novel when it comes to story, if you read all the story you can get its a lot of words. But even more impressive is almost every single bit of it comes back to its original theme "What can change the nature of a man?" and when Ravel Puzzlewell rips something integral to your nature as a human from you what are the consequences to "you" and everyone else? Everything revolves around this. This is the game. In addition you can also make a mechanically powerful party.
MMORPGs are the reverse everything revolves around twinking out your character via RNG, just like an ARPG. Not only is it power gaming but its random. Many CRPGs have actually been non-random in important ways. In addition to power gaming to can get some minor bits of story here and there but they are not the game. They exist in the game but they are not the theme of the entire reason the game was made.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Ever heard of Fantasy Grounds? https://www.fantasygrounds.com/?
It is essentially a VoIP table top RPG platform to run table top rpg games over the internet. You have a GM and players. Dice rolls, maps with character tokens. You can either RP using voice or text and text has different modes for actions, speaking and ooc. You are ran through modules either created and completely hand made or purchased modules already made. I have an ultimate license where no player has to pay a dime to join in and with skype, communication is free as well. I used to run adventures in the evenings during the week but my former players finished their campaign and went their own way. Might be something to look at.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
A man who fears nothing is a man who loves nothing; and if you love nothing, what joy is there in your life?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Well that specific form of RP was never what videogame RPGs were about. You didn't RP in that way in Ultima or Final Fantasy or Wizardry.
In the broader sense of course you play a role in all of these games, but the degree of control you have over that role varies wildly.
While your advice may improve these games for some people, the simple fact is that most players aren't playing videogame RPGs for that type of gameplay.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Most do not that is true. When I played DDO, i ran with a few others and we actually RPed during a dungeon crawl. It was quite a hoot. Me being a Halfling Thief named Calypso, I got pushed around alot and made to scout ahead and get poisoned by a trap or caught on fire by a flaming jet trap. Also in LOTRO there are Kins that also do something like this as well. You just have to want to do it and engage, thats all. Most people though are in much to big a hurry. Not sure why though.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
In the broader sense of course you play a role in all of these games, but the degree of control you have over that role varies wildly.
While your advice may improve these games for some people, the simple fact is that most players aren't playing videogame RPGs for that type of gameplay.
OMG! I actually agree with you for once.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Agreed, that was a nice addition.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson