I think they are placing a lot of hope on the idea of Opening Day Excitement. Periodic new worlds, new starts, new chances to be First, or at least ahead of the curve.
They also mention how the highest populations would occur right after resets in Beta.
But will this hold true if a game *plans* around it? Can you *really* get the same interest in internal resets as you do on the Go Live day, or new Server starts? IMO there's a real danger in a MEH reaction - Oh goodie, I get to grind out the process all over again!
Let's say I've been playing for months in Campaign #1. Now I'm forced to restart in #2. If I was winning in #1, it's a natural reaction to ponder whether more time spent is worth it. If I was losing in #1, then maybe I'm excited about a shot at #2 to do better.
Now extend it out with #3, #4, #10. Add parallel campaigns, so you have more than one to choose your focus. At some point - MEH. It'll get old, and BORING. And all the "magic" of playing a game opening day will go down the drain, as the uniqueness of a one-time event vanishes.
I haven't even mentioned the real possibility that a group can still DOMINATE across campaigns just as well as a single one.
TL;DR: New, exciting mechanics can become old, boring ones if overused - and the Crowfall devs seem eager to overuse some.
I'm rapidly approaching the "too much talk" point. Show me something. If you have nothing sthu and start building.
It seems this is a build up to sell a low feature, high concept alpha early access. I hope I'm wrong. With all this talk I hope they can atleast deliver a feature complete beta.
Thats quite possible, and I wouldnt mind them selling us alpha (or the controversial cash shop) if they deliver good game in the end.
It is like playing an Action RPG like Dragon Nest or VIndictus or C9 but on a massive level. In other word : Glorified Lobby based Action RPG. But still looking forward to it, at the very least the instances or "hunger worlds" will be different each time and we will have lot more players playing in the same world. good good..finally an ARPG that i can look forward to.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
I just don't understand why this is hard. You resolve the end game issue but eliminating the end game. Simple.
This is one thing old school vanilla EQ had right. Leveling needs to be a process that takes times and the reward needs to be the journey, not the destination. Reaching max level should be a major accomplishment taking months, if not years, not something that just happens in a few weeks.
I played EQ for something like 2-3 years and I can honestly say that there were probably at least a dozen zones or more that I had never once stepped foot in. Also even at max level, I had 100s of AA points I could acquire to keep leveling my character slowly while I adventuring and working to get into a position where I could move on to another zone or take on another adventure. It was for all intents and purpses an EVER QUEST, something that never ended, that had no stupid term like ENDGAME. Endgame came about because WoW had such a rapid leveling curve that player found themselves with nothing to do and Blizzard had to scramble to find something, anything to keep players in the game. Honestly, WoWs ENDGAME is the worst thing that ever happened to MMOs.
I feel the same, but we will never get a game like that again. If we do one day, I'll be shocked, amazed, and ecstatic...but it's not worth it to pine over something I can't go out and get myself.
The idea of instant gratification killed our hopes. Now every game is about hitting max level and running the same damn raids over and over again.
It's not "getting to the good part" if the good part is doing the same thing over and over.
Pages upon pages of people who don't actually get it.
Well it's good that people who pay so little attention lose interest now, rather than complain later when their dream version of the game doesn't exist.
So everyone loves Crowfall, but camelot unchained is crapped on? How come? At least CU is in internal and soon to be alpha..
Yet every other story on mmorpg.com is about crowfall.
Biased much?
I think a lot of people here have a hard time understanding Camelot Unchained. They don't "get it", because there are a lot of unique ideas and a lot to read.
But yeah, people are pretty biased against it because it's a Kickstarter game, and because some people blame Jacobs instead of EA for Warhammer.
Just because there will be campaigns which will end, does not mean that all your efforts have been in vain.
There will be a base world where you or your guild have a base on. When you join a campaign world you and your guilds goal will be to gain as much resources as possible and try to dominate that world so you can make sure you get even more resources. Resources that after the campaign ends, you bring back to your persistent world where your base is.
You then improve your base with the resources and can probably gain some advantages for when your enter your next campaign.
The campaign worlds use voxel farm, if the worlds didnt end it would look messed up after some time. Just log onto any long running Minecraft server and see how messed up it is.
I think it sounds great and i look forward to play a Guinea guy digging my way into peoples bases.
Another thing is that ive been playing the Albion Online alpha which will end soon and then come back in some months. Despite knowing the alpha will end and ill lose all my things and my progression i still play, and look forward to the next alpha. Because in the next alpha ill have learned so much from this alpha that i can bring with me to the next alpha. The knowledge i have gained will give me an advantage the next time the alpha rolls around. Ill know exactly what i want to do, how i want to do it and when i want to do it.
To be it seems like Crowfall will be similar, but instead of an alpha that gets completly wiped. Its campaign worlds that get wiped and i keep a little bit of progress for the next world.
So everyone loves Crowfall, but camelot unchained is crapped on? How come? At least CU is in internal and soon to be alpha..
Yet every other story on mmorpg.com is about crowfall.
Biased much?
I think a lot of people here have a hard time understanding Camelot Unchained. They don't "get it", because there are a lot of unique ideas and a lot to read.
But yeah, people are pretty biased against it because it's a Kickstarter game, and because some people blame Jacobs instead of EA for Warhammer.
Irony huh? They blame SOE for SWG, But not Koster... who just so happens is a big part of crowfall
Just because there will be campaigns which will end, does not mean that all your efforts have been in vain.
There will be a base world where you or your guild have a base on. When you join a campaign world you and your guilds goal will be to gain as much resources as possible and try to dominate that world so you can make sure you get even more resources. Resources that after the campaign ends, you bring back to your persistent world where your base is.
You then improve your base with the resources and can probably gain some advantages for when your enter your next campaign.
The campaign worlds use voxel farm, if the worlds didnt end it would look messed up after some time. Just log onto any long running Minecraft server and see how messed up it is.
I think it sounds great and i look forward to play a Guinea guy digging my way into peoples bases.
Another thing is that ive been playing the Albion Online alpha which will end soon and then come back in some months. Despite knowing the alpha will end and ill lose all my things and my progression i still play, and look forward to the next alpha. Because in the next alpha ill have learned so much from this alpha that i can bring with me to the next alpha. The knowledge i have gained will give me an advantage the next time the alpha rolls around. Ill know exactly what i want to do, how i want to do it and when i want to do it.
To be it seems like Crowfall will be similar, but instead of an alpha that gets completly wiped. Its campaign worlds that get wiped and i keep a little bit of progress for the next world.
Crowfall seems to be just the game for me.
It's a glorified lobby game at this point.. come on, how can anyone call this a mmo? DAOC had save zone housing too, so was the rest of the world considered a "eternal kingdom" ?
Why do a reset? It is not like they guys who were on top before the reset is not going to be the guys on top again after the reset unless you somehow fprce people to make new "teams" (which woudl be quite bad for comunities). They won the last round for a reason, and on top of that they will now have some nice bonues for winning the last round. Those bonues better NOT be worth anything int the "battle world".
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa Originally posted by will75So everyone loves Crowfall, but camelot unchained is crapped on? How come? At least CU is in internal and soon to be alpha..Yet every other story on mmorpg.com is about crowfall.Biased much?
I think a lot of people here have a hard time understanding Camelot Unchained. They don't "get it", because there are a lot of unique ideas and a lot to read.
But yeah, people are pretty biased against it because it's a Kickstarter game, and because some people blame Jacobs instead of EA for Warhammer.
crowfall will also be a kickstarter game. and btw im not interested in either.
The reset sounds a lot like the one Pirates of the Burning Sea uses. For a mmo a reset is just boring. Why do you fight. But I agree with those who could say then why raid pve in a mmo. Over and over the same instance untill you have all gear.
So everyone loves Crowfall, but camelot unchained is crapped on? How come? At least CU is in internal and soon to be alpha..
Yet every other story on mmorpg.com is about crowfall.
Biased much?
Who is crapping on CU? Looking at the feedback of both, plenty of critical comments thrown all around, this is mmorpg.com afterall
If you take a look at the articles in the CU section, basically the same as CF. They broke down all the main features.
MJ's ramblings, I mean updates, aren't exactly breaking news or that interesting. Like the guy, but his style isn't the easiest to read, especially for what I'm assuming isn't amazing attention spans of readers here.
So far, the news/details about CF are much easier to get through.
It's a glorified lobby game at this point.. come on, how can anyone call this a mmo? DAOC had save zone housing too, so was the rest of the world considered a "eternal kingdom" ?
I believe this is why they are calling it a Throne War Simulator and not simply a "mmo" even though that term really doesn't mean a lot these days.
They don't appear to be claiming it is like X game or Y model. Actually they are saying it is unlike anything before, so take it however you wish.
CU & CF may both be similar, but I think it is superficially so. CU is going for a 3 realm PVP mmo with whatever sand in the "sandbox" while CF is blending board/strategy/RTS games with what I would call an mmo. Different designs with shared fans.
DAoC/WAR are two of my all time favorite games and I hope CU is great, but CF sounds better at this point. Couple days that might change though. I fear CU will suffer just as Andred/Mordred did and pretty much all PVP focused mmos have. CF might have the missing element, start/finish.
Clearly some are missing the whole Board-Strategy-RTS elements they are going for. Look at all the popular games/genres. MOBAs, FPS, RTS, CCG, and instanced PVP in traditional mmos, all have a start and finish.
People love conflict and competition, but seems games do much better when a clear end is reachable. Win some, lose some, have fun in all of um. Keeps people coming back for more.
When victory is impossible, game over. When victory is assured, game over. Challenge and achievement come from the unknown.
Crowfall is not a traditional PVP mmo, open world "sandbox" or whatever buzzword. If you can't handle having an end point, probably isn't the game for you. But then again, you probably don't like Risk, Chess, tic tac toe, battleship, Starcraft, LoL, CS:GO, insert whatever esport people are in love with these days, etc.
Two biggest issues I've seen with open ended PVP games are the eventual alliance of big guilds that run over the smaller guilds with both sides growing bored of winning/losing and having no real point.
Endless games of capture the flag, king of the hill, tag, and tug of war are not very deep. "You took my castle!" "Look now, I took yours!" "Oh but you took mine again." Fun for sure, but how long can that go on until players cry out for "more more more" from the devs? Seems some connect this to "sandbox" and I think it holds true as these games are something you'd find children playing around a sandbox. Not a lot of complex strategy going into a game of KOTH.
No clue how fun CF will actually be, but it sounds a lot more entertaining on paper to me. I don't mind losing over and over if I still have a chance to win the next campaign. That's the point, improve, overcome obstacles, and win. Then do it all over again with a different set of variables (enemies, resources, map, victory conditions, etc). Not sit on my virtual throne forever. "Woohoo, I'm the best, yay for me!" now what?
I'm glad that they are at least trying to break away from what hasn't really "worked" in the past. Might not work this time around either, but at least they are taking the risk and are willing to make changes to improve the experience. Unlike some games that are XYZ and will always be XYZ, regardless if they ride it to the bank full of cash or off a cliff.
With voxel farm and friendly fire in you will have lots of ways to deal with the xerg. Pit traps and avalanches and choke points will all be viable. Dont like getting ganked, then dont play on the dregs and make sure you have a good group to play with. This will not be a solo player game.
"Its better to look ugly and win than pretty and lose"
When I first read about that 'reset-system', I wasn't that delighted aswell. But, as I thought closer about it, I changed my mind. Seriously, this is just like buying and downloading a dozen MMO's for the price of one! Could it be any better?
Comments
aaand whose fault is that?
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I think they are placing a lot of hope on the idea of Opening Day Excitement. Periodic new worlds, new starts, new chances to be First, or at least ahead of the curve.
They also mention how the highest populations would occur right after resets in Beta.
But will this hold true if a game *plans* around it? Can you *really* get the same interest in internal resets as you do on the Go Live day, or new Server starts? IMO there's a real danger in a MEH reaction - Oh goodie, I get to grind out the process all over again!
Let's say I've been playing for months in Campaign #1. Now I'm forced to restart in #2. If I was winning in #1, it's a natural reaction to ponder whether more time spent is worth it. If I was losing in #1, then maybe I'm excited about a shot at #2 to do better.
Now extend it out with #3, #4, #10. Add parallel campaigns, so you have more than one to choose your focus. At some point - MEH. It'll get old, and BORING. And all the "magic" of playing a game opening day will go down the drain, as the uniqueness of a one-time event vanishes.
I haven't even mentioned the real possibility that a group can still DOMINATE across campaigns just as well as a single one.
TL;DR: New, exciting mechanics can become old, boring ones if overused - and the Crowfall devs seem eager to overuse some.
Avatars are people too
Thats quite possible, and I wouldnt mind them selling us alpha (or the controversial cash shop) if they deliver good game in the end.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
So everyone loves Crowfall, but camelot unchained is crapped on? How come? At least CU is in internal and soon to be alpha..
Yet every other story on mmorpg.com is about crowfall.
Biased much?
I feel the same, but we will never get a game like that again. If we do one day, I'll be shocked, amazed, and ecstatic...but it's not worth it to pine over something I can't go out and get myself.
The idea of instant gratification killed our hopes. Now every game is about hitting max level and running the same damn raids over and over again.
It's not "getting to the good part" if the good part is doing the same thing over and over.
Pages upon pages of people who don't actually get it.
Well it's good that people who pay so little attention lose interest now, rather than complain later when their dream version of the game doesn't exist.
PSA: NOT EVERYTHING RESETS.
I think a lot of people here have a hard time understanding Camelot Unchained. They don't "get it", because there are a lot of unique ideas and a lot to read.
But yeah, people are pretty biased against it because it's a Kickstarter game, and because some people blame Jacobs instead of EA for Warhammer.
Just because there will be campaigns which will end, does not mean that all your efforts have been in vain.
There will be a base world where you or your guild have a base on. When you join a campaign world you and your guilds goal will be to gain as much resources as possible and try to dominate that world so you can make sure you get even more resources. Resources that after the campaign ends, you bring back to your persistent world where your base is.
You then improve your base with the resources and can probably gain some advantages for when your enter your next campaign.
The campaign worlds use voxel farm, if the worlds didnt end it would look messed up after some time. Just log onto any long running Minecraft server and see how messed up it is.
I think it sounds great and i look forward to play a Guinea guy digging my way into peoples bases.
Another thing is that ive been playing the Albion Online alpha which will end soon and then come back in some months. Despite knowing the alpha will end and ill lose all my things and my progression i still play, and look forward to the next alpha. Because in the next alpha ill have learned so much from this alpha that i can bring with me to the next alpha. The knowledge i have gained will give me an advantage the next time the alpha rolls around. Ill know exactly what i want to do, how i want to do it and when i want to do it.
To be it seems like Crowfall will be similar, but instead of an alpha that gets completly wiped. Its campaign worlds that get wiped and i keep a little bit of progress for the next world.
Crowfall seems to be just the game for me.
Irony huh? They blame SOE for SWG, But not Koster... who just so happens is a big part of crowfall
Contradictory, no?
It's a glorified lobby game at this point.. come on, how can anyone call this a mmo? DAOC had save zone housing too, so was the rest of the world considered a "eternal kingdom" ?
Why would hype be dead, we knew this information from the day one.
But yeah, people are pretty biased against it because it's a Kickstarter game, and because some people blame Jacobs instead of EA for Warhammer.
crowfall will also be a kickstarter game. and btw im not interested in either.
Who is crapping on CU? Looking at the feedback of both, plenty of critical comments thrown all around, this is mmorpg.com afterall
If you take a look at the articles in the CU section, basically the same as CF. They broke down all the main features.
MJ's ramblings, I mean updates, aren't exactly breaking news or that interesting. Like the guy, but his style isn't the easiest to read, especially for what I'm assuming isn't amazing attention spans of readers here.
So far, the news/details about CF are much easier to get through.
I believe this is why they are calling it a Throne War Simulator and not simply a "mmo" even though that term really doesn't mean a lot these days.
They don't appear to be claiming it is like X game or Y model. Actually they are saying it is unlike anything before, so take it however you wish.
CU & CF may both be similar, but I think it is superficially so. CU is going for a 3 realm PVP mmo with whatever sand in the "sandbox" while CF is blending board/strategy/RTS games with what I would call an mmo. Different designs with shared fans.
DAoC/WAR are two of my all time favorite games and I hope CU is great, but CF sounds better at this point. Couple days that might change though. I fear CU will suffer just as Andred/Mordred did and pretty much all PVP focused mmos have. CF might have the missing element, start/finish.
Clearly some are missing the whole Board-Strategy-RTS elements they are going for. Look at all the popular games/genres. MOBAs, FPS, RTS, CCG, and instanced PVP in traditional mmos, all have a start and finish.
People love conflict and competition, but seems games do much better when a clear end is reachable. Win some, lose some, have fun in all of um. Keeps people coming back for more.
When victory is impossible, game over. When victory is assured, game over. Challenge and achievement come from the unknown.
Crowfall is not a traditional PVP mmo, open world "sandbox" or whatever buzzword. If you can't handle having an end point, probably isn't the game for you. But then again, you probably don't like Risk, Chess, tic tac toe, battleship, Starcraft, LoL, CS:GO, insert whatever esport people are in love with these days, etc.
Two biggest issues I've seen with open ended PVP games are the eventual alliance of big guilds that run over the smaller guilds with both sides growing bored of winning/losing and having no real point.
Endless games of capture the flag, king of the hill, tag, and tug of war are not very deep. "You took my castle!" "Look now, I took yours!" "Oh but you took mine again." Fun for sure, but how long can that go on until players cry out for "more more more" from the devs? Seems some connect this to "sandbox" and I think it holds true as these games are something you'd find children playing around a sandbox. Not a lot of complex strategy going into a game of KOTH.
No clue how fun CF will actually be, but it sounds a lot more entertaining on paper to me. I don't mind losing over and over if I still have a chance to win the next campaign. That's the point, improve, overcome obstacles, and win. Then do it all over again with a different set of variables (enemies, resources, map, victory conditions, etc). Not sit on my virtual throne forever. "Woohoo, I'm the best, yay for me!" now what?
I'm glad that they are at least trying to break away from what hasn't really "worked" in the past. Might not work this time around either, but at least they are taking the risk and are willing to make changes to improve the experience. Unlike some games that are XYZ and will always be XYZ, regardless if they ride it to the bank full of cash or off a cliff.
"Its better to look ugly and win than pretty and lose"
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