Its confirmed its in the game on some level. Sounds like its not something that will happen in all situations but it will in some. How do you feel about that in a PvP game? Want it, or please make it gone!!!
I think it's positive. It adds a further dimension to pvp combat that is rarely seen in other games. And you certainly would avoid the disco floor of other games. Teamwork is heavily rewarded with this feature.
Would it be too much to assume the players would know about this before getting the game?
I can fly higher than an aeroplane. And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes. Hurt - Wars
I think it's positive. It adds a further dimension to pvp combat that is rarely seen in other games. And you certainly would avoid the disco floor of other games. Teamwork is heavily rewarded with this feature.
Would it be too much to assume the players would know about this before getting the game?
At this point we know now. As for what kind of skills we dont know. Maybe all AoE skills or siege weapons will hurt both sides. No firm details. I really wonder myself. Personally I am not a fan. To many dumb players as it stands and IMO people who will greef their own side because its fun.
EDIT: Even in faction wars I could see sending someone to play the other side to mess them up would be a tactic. =-D
I vote "it depends". In maps where I can have more say in who is on my team, bring it on! In maps where any yahoo can start killing and looting his teammates, nope!
Originally posted by Arawulf I vote "it depends". In maps where I can have more say in who is on my team, bring it on! In maps where any yahoo can start killing and looting his teammates, nope!
I have to agree. I hate dueling in games and this would bring an entire new problem if it was just open at any time. I'm sure they will put some type of restriction in certain areas. It would suck to be checking items in your inventory and to just start being bludgeoned by someone in your own faction, or telling someone you were going afk for a bio break and come back and you were murdered! o.O
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I think it's positive. It adds a further dimension to pvp combat that is rarely seen in other games. And you certainly would avoid the disco floor of other games. Teamwork is heavily rewarded with this feature.
Would it be too much to assume the players would know about this before getting the game?
At this point we know now. As for what kind of skills we dont know. Maybe all AoE skills or siege weapons will hurt both sides. No firm details. I really wonder myself. Personally I am not a fan. To many dumb players as it stands and IMO people who will greef their own side because its fun.
EDIT: Even in faction wars I could see sending someone to play the other side to mess them up would be a tactic. =-D
RE: Too many dumb players: Yes, and I never believed Crowfall was for the players that wanted to point and click willy nilly. Another reason why I have said it will be niche. In the same way that EVE is.
RE: EDIT: Which would be amazing for a pvp community. Rivalries will be enhanced (on worlds that allow for that behavior, which is not all of them)
I can fly higher than an aeroplane. And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes. Hurt - Wars
I think it's positive. It adds a further dimension to pvp combat that is rarely seen in other games. And you certainly would avoid the disco floor of other games. Teamwork is heavily rewarded with this feature.
Would it be too much to assume the players would know about this before getting the game?
At this point we know now. As for what kind of skills we dont know. Maybe all AoE skills or siege weapons will hurt both sides. No firm details. I really wonder myself. Personally I am not a fan. To many dumb players as it stands and IMO people who will greef their own side because its fun.
EDIT: Even in faction wars I could see sending someone to play the other side to mess them up would be a tactic. =-D
RE: Too many dumb players: Yes, and I never believed Crowfall was for the players that wanted to point and click willy nilly. Another reason why I have said it will be niche. In the same way that EVE is.
RE: EDIT: Which would be amazing for a pvp community. Rivalries will be enhanced (on worlds that allow for that behavior, which is not all of them)
I know myself the less cheating the better. If the other faction can play the other side and hinder the other faction that way with friendly fire, I would rather it removed.
I think it's positive. It adds a further dimension to pvp combat that is rarely seen in other games. And you certainly would avoid the disco floor of other games. Teamwork is heavily rewarded with this feature.
Would it be too much to assume the players would know about this before getting the game?
At this point we know now. As for what kind of skills we dont know. Maybe all AoE skills or siege weapons will hurt both sides. No firm details. I really wonder myself. Personally I am not a fan. To many dumb players as it stands and IMO people who will greef their own side because its fun.
EDIT: Even in faction wars I could see sending someone to play the other side to mess them up would be a tactic. =-D
RE: Too many dumb players: Yes, and I never believed Crowfall was for the players that wanted to point and click willy nilly. Another reason why I have said it will be niche. In the same way that EVE is.
RE: EDIT: Which would be amazing for a pvp community. Rivalries will be enhanced (on worlds that allow for that behavior, which is not all of them)
I know myself the less cheating the better. If the other faction can play the other side and hinder the other faction that way with friendly fire, I would rather it removed.
Then I wouldn't make a character on the FFA server, rather faction vs faction, which will limit that.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane. And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes. Hurt - Wars
Very good news and reassuring to hear they've gone down the FF-route, in FFA world for sure and trying to make it work in the other worlds as best they can.
I've said that I think they'll be forced to turn FF off outside of the free-for-all zone. I have that dim a view of the potential playerbase.
However, I do hope they find a solution that works. I like the idea of FF, but hate what the "friendlies" will do with it.
Historically, they have screwed themselves over and ranted that such accountability is ruining the game for them. Eventually the FF gets removed. However, to a certain degree, it's not the ones firing that are the problem in FF griefing.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
If they do this then Crowfall is already the ultimate troll game. If it is one thing I have learned from playing MMOs it is way too many players will go out of their way to exploit features in a game that can be used to trolls others. I will be passing on this game if this is going to be another Archeage-like troll/griefer playground.
Have any of those that are not fans of FF actually played games that have it?
While any system can and will be abused, it isn't insanely difficult to put in consequences that will keep it to a minimum.
Off the top of my head:
Can't loot or receive any rewards from friendly corpse
Each attack on friendly does equal or much greater damage to attacker
Each attack causes some sort of debuff that can persist for X amount of time (-10% dmg/hp, stacks, last 1+ hour live time)
Killing blow instantly kills attacker and or damages all gear to unusable state
All penalties transfer to friends/guildies/group mates near by
Causing X amount of damage to Y number of players and or killing them will result in very long duration penalties which could reflect/impact guilds as well.
If attacker completes X successive attacks in Y period and or does Z damage to another, "victim" along with group/guildies can freely respond without consequence
Repeated FF attacks result in complete screen black out "blind"
Could take it a step further and kick them from the server or whatever else as well
Any or all of these would deter individuals or even small groups of "trolls" or players trying to abuse the system or those that simply don't know what the heck they are doing or what is going on. Sometimes people just aren't any good and that super cool looking AOE fire spell is too awesome to not use, they need to quickly learn when and where to use it.
Now of course larger groups/guilds can form and attempt to get around any system, but as CF won't have traditional levels, I'm assuming those that actually play as intended and for a while will have some "power" over a random group that makes 50 new characters to terrorize the locals.
As there will be several different worlds with different rulesets, they could easily make a Faction vs Faction server with or without FF and see how it goes. Great thing about not being stuck with tunnel vision. If it doesn't work, oh well, but if it does, even better.
I've played a lot of my FPS time on FF servers and as funny as trolls can be, usually the consequences win and quickly. FFA mmorpgs are a bit different, but even then, players usually handle situations quickly if needed.
Fear shouldn't keep devs from trying things that could result in a lot of fun.
For me, if someone or a group of someones take the time to "infiltrate" and become spies or whatever, good for them for fooling everyone for however long. That's kind of the point. Obviously every server isn't a FFA and people expect some degree of "friendly" mechanics, but in a game all about player conflict and strategy, trust is a pricey resource.
Edit: Just to add, I wouldn't want to see a jail system or mini-game to break out, work off, or otherwise wash away the actions some choose to make. Attack/Kill someone, suffer the consequences. Ideal for me would make the game unenjoyable or playable for X amount of real live game time. Have it account wide.
Why have FF at all if it just carries massive punishment? Would increase team work, strategy, and skill, not just a means to mess with others or punish people from not paying attention. Would decrease zerg mentality and overall mindless playing. Again, not perfect or ideal for every world/rule set, but could add an extra layer of fun if done well.
Originally posted by Viper482 If they do this then Crowfall is already the ultimate troll game. If it is one thing I have learned from playing MMOs it is way too many players will go out of their way to exploit features in a game that can be used to trolls others. I will be passing on this game if this is going to be another Archeage-like troll/griefer playground.
I haven't played AA, how do trolls take advantage of the system?
I've read some what about the criminal points and prison, but it like Wushu, seem to make it into a fun game and not really a penalty. Are there any instant consequences or reasons to not kill/attack those of the same faction? Are there penalties for FF or only killing others? To me this is a huge difference that usually only accounts for actual deaths.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle Its confirmed its in the game on some level. Sounds like its not something that will happen in all situations but it will in some. How do you feel about that in a PvP game? Want it, or please make it gone!!!
I like the idea behind it, but I've played enough games with it to know that stupidity ruins mechanics like this. There are just too many players who don't like to think about what they are doing. People who just fire off abilities (spray & prey tactics), tunnel vision (kill, regardless of who is in the way), don't pay attention to surroundings (walk into your line of fire without realizing it), etc. etc. etc.
In most PvP games I've played with FF enabled, your teammates end up doing more damage to your team than the enemy does. It almost turns into a battle of who can commit suicide faster.
Sadly, it's for that reason that I think it should probably not be in the game, or at least hopefully it stays limited to certain abilities (maybe certain AoEs). Even then it's very easy to troll your teammates with it. We'll see how it turns out.
To be honest I hate how almost every mmo deals with aoe abilities. I love how a pbaoe somehow magically hits only those you want it to hit, even though they are all within the circle. I also love how in most mmo's aoe deal as much damage as a single target ability before calculating in the extra targets. When aoe's are so damn easy to cast, taking no thought about placement, and deal as much damage as single target abilities, it ruins the idea of tactics and ability choice. I would prefer the aoe deal more damage than the single target ability only when it hits 2 or more targets.
Friendly fire is a good method of limiting the aoe spam that dominates PvP in most games. I would love for them to take it even further allowing miscast heals to heal enemies. You would have to make tough calls and possibly hold that pbaoe heal until a good moment where maybe only 1 enemy is in its range, then cast it. MMO's are going the way to mindless button pressing. The more you make the player think the better and friendly fire is one step toward this.
In most PvP games I've played with FF enabled, your teammates end up doing more damage to your team than the enemy does. It almost turns into a battle of who can commit suicide faster.
The games with friendly fire that I've played were UO, SB, and EVE Online. My experience as a player and, in some of the cases, support team member I have not found that to be the norm, common, or even a remotely regular occurrence. This is not to say that people won't abuse it if it's designed poorly (ex: early UO- field spells and the original notoriety system), just that it was nowhere near as prevalent in those games as in the ones you unfortunately played.
Which MMOs did you play where friendly fire was as detrimental to gameplay as you describe?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
In most PvP games I've played with FF enabled, your teammates end up doing more damage to your team than the enemy does. It almost turns into a battle of who can commit suicide faster.
I have not found this to be the case at all. The games I've played with FF are UO, Darkfall, EVE, Planetside 2, and others. FF was never a significant problem.
Comments
I think it's positive. It adds a further dimension to pvp combat that is rarely seen in other games. And you certainly would avoid the disco floor of other games. Teamwork is heavily rewarded with this feature.
Would it be too much to assume the players would know about this before getting the game?
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
At this point we know now. As for what kind of skills we dont know. Maybe all AoE skills or siege weapons will hurt both sides. No firm details. I really wonder myself. Personally I am not a fan. To many dumb players as it stands and IMO people who will greef their own side because its fun.
EDIT: Even in faction wars I could see sending someone to play the other side to mess them up would be a tactic. =-D
I have to agree. I hate dueling in games and this would bring an entire new problem if it was just open at any time. I'm sure they will put some type of restriction in certain areas. It would suck to be checking items in your inventory and to just start being bludgeoned by someone in your own faction, or telling someone you were going afk for a bio break and come back and you were murdered! o.O
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Depending on how its done, there is that =-)
I've said that I think they'll be forced to turn FF off outside of the free-for-all zone. I have that dim a view of the potential playerbase.
However, I do hope they find a solution that works. I like the idea of FF, but hate what the "friendlies" will do with it.
Avatars are people too
RE: Too many dumb players: Yes, and I never believed Crowfall was for the players that wanted to point and click willy nilly. Another reason why I have said it will be niche. In the same way that EVE is.
RE: EDIT: Which would be amazing for a pvp community. Rivalries will be enhanced (on worlds that allow for that behavior, which is not all of them)
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
I know myself the less cheating the better. If the other faction can play the other side and hinder the other faction that way with friendly fire, I would rather it removed.
Then I wouldn't make a character on the FFA server, rather faction vs faction, which will limit that.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
Cool but i believe its specify ruleset
and since Crowfall have abudant rulesets to player chossen and feel comfortable
Darkfall Unholy Wars:
Zushakon Odi
Historically, they have screwed themselves over and ranted that such accountability is ruining the game for them. Eventually the FF gets removed. However, to a certain degree, it's not the ones firing that are the problem in FF griefing.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The only problem is this is not what it will be used for by the griefers and trolls who will flock to this game like flies to crap.
Yes.
Have any of those that are not fans of FF actually played games that have it?
While any system can and will be abused, it isn't insanely difficult to put in consequences that will keep it to a minimum.
Off the top of my head:
Edit: Just to add, I wouldn't want to see a jail system or mini-game to break out, work off, or otherwise wash away the actions some choose to make. Attack/Kill someone, suffer the consequences. Ideal for me would make the game unenjoyable or playable for X amount of real live game time. Have it account wide.
Why have FF at all if it just carries massive punishment? Would increase team work, strategy, and skill, not just a means to mess with others or punish people from not paying attention. Would decrease zerg mentality and overall mindless playing. Again, not perfect or ideal for every world/rule set, but could add an extra layer of fun if done well.
I haven't played AA, how do trolls take advantage of the system?
I've read some what about the criminal points and prison, but it like Wushu, seem to make it into a fun game and not really a penalty. Are there any instant consequences or reasons to not kill/attack those of the same faction? Are there penalties for FF or only killing others? To me this is a huge difference that usually only accounts for actual deaths.
I like the idea behind it, but I've played enough games with it to know that stupidity ruins mechanics like this. There are just too many players who don't like to think about what they are doing. People who just fire off abilities (spray & prey tactics), tunnel vision (kill, regardless of who is in the way), don't pay attention to surroundings (walk into your line of fire without realizing it), etc. etc. etc.
In most PvP games I've played with FF enabled, your teammates end up doing more damage to your team than the enemy does. It almost turns into a battle of who can commit suicide faster.
Sadly, it's for that reason that I think it should probably not be in the game, or at least hopefully it stays limited to certain abilities (maybe certain AoEs). Even then it's very easy to troll your teammates with it. We'll see how it turns out.
To be honest I hate how almost every mmo deals with aoe abilities. I love how a pbaoe somehow magically hits only those you want it to hit, even though they are all within the circle. I also love how in most mmo's aoe deal as much damage as a single target ability before calculating in the extra targets. When aoe's are so damn easy to cast, taking no thought about placement, and deal as much damage as single target abilities, it ruins the idea of tactics and ability choice. I would prefer the aoe deal more damage than the single target ability only when it hits 2 or more targets.
Friendly fire is a good method of limiting the aoe spam that dominates PvP in most games. I would love for them to take it even further allowing miscast heals to heal enemies. You would have to make tough calls and possibly hold that pbaoe heal until a good moment where maybe only 1 enemy is in its range, then cast it. MMO's are going the way to mindless button pressing. The more you make the player think the better and friendly fire is one step toward this.
The games with friendly fire that I've played were UO, SB, and EVE Online. My experience as a player and, in some of the cases, support team member I have not found that to be the norm, common, or even a remotely regular occurrence. This is not to say that people won't abuse it if it's designed poorly (ex: early UO- field spells and the original notoriety system), just that it was nowhere near as prevalent in those games as in the ones you unfortunately played.
Which MMOs did you play where friendly fire was as detrimental to gameplay as you describe?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I have not found this to be the case at all. The games I've played with FF are UO, Darkfall, EVE, Planetside 2, and others. FF was never a significant problem.
Love it, nothing like playing competitive smash bros doubles, having to worry about hitting your partner increases the skill ceiling drastically.
Waiting for:
The Repopulation
Albion Online