12000 hours of playing mobas and counting, I've played mobas for more hours than I've been in school (preschool, elementary, highschool + university 5 years
I've seen and experienced so many people in dota and lol games, more people that 90% of the planet will ever meet in their lives xD, so trust me when i explain to you the psychology and mentality behind what u will encounter in mobas, I'm probably right, just by averaging the insane statistical number of experiences I've had in mobas
My instincts after 10000 hours + of feeders, flamers, trolls, elitist, apologists, sociopaths, psychopaths, noobs, newbies, "pros" are nothing short of superbly honed.
Freud and Jung would have had a field day with esports in general, they would have literally died out of hunger and thirst like a kid in a candy store the size of a city if they were alive today
Part of the problem is that MOBAs breed this kind of behavior. Yes, it's the dev's fault, too. For example, in SMITE, at the end of a match, is there any reason to allow players to spam mocking laughter? And other than the pre-game dance, is jump used as anything other than a way to antagonize the other team during battle? In 1v1 league, when a player is obviously outmatched, is there any reason not to farm the crap out of him to run up kill count (other than sportsmanship, respect, and consideration)?
MOBA developers want to be taken seriously as eSports contenders, but they encourage gamesmanship over sportsmanship. The devs actively try to combat the toxicity that players bring there, but seem to completely overlook the toxicity they themselves breed once players get there.
real sports have independent institutions, observers, judges and executioners in place to force sportsmanship at all turns and punish bad conduct, and to force good behaviour, and minimize everything not related to the gameplay itself.
However that only applies to professional play, feeders, flamers, trolls, elitist, apologists, sociopaths, psychopaths, noobs, newbies and wannabe "pros" are all still there in everyday playing of all sports, everywhere near and around you on courts and fields, and FIFA, NBA, and etc, ... are not involved in all these sport games.
Nobody gets worked up and much goes and whines all around much if they go to a basketball court, start playing bad, and then get their ball stolen, possible beaten and thrown out by "regular pros". It's become just a part of life, and we chug it down to, bad people and good people doing bad things, just ignore them.
However the same is not true in e-sports, the whine is at an all time high and everyone is demanding social justice like we're in a socialistic marxist utopia, ...
The problem is that ranked play in mobas is a professional type of play, while having the construct of a everyday friendly match of football or basketball.
It's like if they allowed everyone to participate in the nba, no matter how short, weak, incompetent or mentally unstable. The exact same would happen as what is happening in esports in general now.
It's a whole new wide world with new rules and old constructs, and we are in the wild wild west phase atm before we figure out how to regulate all of this and to make people chug any bad experience in esports and mobas down to, good and bad people doing bad things, what u gonna do eh, not esports, moba, game or communities fault.
12000 hours of playing mobas and counting, I've played mobas for more hours than I've been in school (preschool, elementary, highschool + university 5 years
I've seen and experienced so many people in dota and lol games, more people that 90% of the planet will ever meet in their lives xD, so trust me when i explain to you the psychology and mentality behind what u will encounter in mobas, I'm probably right, just by averaging the insane statistical number of experiences I've had in mobas
My instincts after 10000 hours + of feeders, flamers, trolls, elitist, apologists, sociopaths, psychopaths, noobs, newbies, "pros" are nothing short of superbly honed.
Freud and Jung would have had a field day with esports in general, they would have literally died out of hunger and thirst like a kid in a candy store the size of a city if they were alive today
Part of the problem is that MOBAs breed this kind of behavior. Yes, it's the dev's fault, too. For example, in SMITE, at the end of a match, is there any reason to allow players to spam mocking laughter? And other than the pre-game dance, is jump used as anything other than a way to antagonize the other team during battle? In 1v1 league, when a player is obviously outmatched, is there any reason not to farm the crap out of him to run up kill count (other than sportsmanship, respect, and consideration)?
MOBA developers want to be taken seriously as eSports contenders, but they encourage gamesmanship over sportsmanship. The devs actively try to combat the toxicity that players bring there, but seem to completely overlook the toxicity they themselves breed once players get there.
real sports have independent institutions, observers, judges and executioners in place to force sportsmanship at all turns and punish bad conduct, and to force good behaviour, and minimize everything not related to the gameplay itself.
However that only applies to professional play, feeders, flamers, trolls, elitist, apologists, sociopaths, psychopaths, noobs, newbies and wannabe "pros" are all still there in everyday playing of all sports, everywhere near and around you on courts and fields, and FIFA, NBA, and etc, ... are not involved in all these sport games.
Nobody gets worked up and much goes and whines all around much if they go to a basketball court, start playing bad, and then get their ball stolen, possible beaten and thrown out by "regular pros". It's become just a part of life, and we chug it down to, bad people and good people doing bad things, just ignore them.
However the same is not true in e-sports, the whine is at an all time high and everyone is demanding social justice like we're in a socialistic marxist utopia, ...
The problem is that ranked play in mobas is a professional type of play, while having the construct of a everyday friendly match of football or basketball.
It's like if they allowed everyone to participate in the nba, no matter how short, weak, incompetent or mentally unstable. The exact same would happen as what is happening in esports in general now.
It's a whole new wide world with new rules and old constructs, and we are in the wild wild west phase atm before we figure out how to regulate all of this and to make people chug any bad experience in esports and mobas down to, good and bad people doing bad things, what u gonna do eh, not esports, moba, game or communities fault.
That must be it... these whiny social justice warriors need to leave their Marxist utopia and suck it up... or something.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy, the glaring disregard(and not knowing) of history, lack of foresight, absence of vision, and general complacency, ...
Once the correct institutions and rules are in place, there's going to be a significant decrease in all of this(primarily the "toxic community")
But of course in my personal opinion it will never reach the levels of real sports, simply because of how easier it is to compete in competitive environments, and how many more people are in various stages of competing in the aformentioned environments.
The playing field is similar, but has evolved in different ways, as has everything since the advent of the internet, and the increased global social connectivity.
But don't kid yourself, you're actively avoiding perfecting your playstyle. Every game's matchmaking are designed to try and give you the fairest games possible at any given time. What you're essentially doing is gaming that system, to make sure you're constantly playing below your active skill level. Aka smurfing.
This is something a lot of top-tier players do to play with lower tier friends. It's something I do when playing w/ some of my friends newer to the genre. It can be fun in short bursts, but it's definitely not fair to the people you are playing with. You usually just end up ruining games by stomping on those on the enemy team. It's certainly better than having your friends get destroyed by experienced players, but it also hinders their experience as well.
I've heard of smurfing, yes. I'd even go as far as saying the elitism I don't want to experience made that term up in the first place. Same with PUG. I actually like random groups.
Really I only have 2 LoL accounts, 1 smite account I haven't played since beta (fun game though), and 1 DOTA2. I am pretty good with the few heroes I have (except when I play again I have to relearn most strategies), but I haven't really played them enough to be considered a real "smurf". By the time I relearn the strategies and consistently do well on a personal level, I'm bored and stop playing again . Just want to get in game, have a good time, experiment with lesser played characters (this is the big deal for me really). If I wanted to really ruin people's day, I'd try to pick the "best" heroes against playing new players, learn them inside and out. I also don't play ranked, which is really the esport part of the game. And the part that ends up turning me off in particular. I know my bro mutes everyone lol. He's usually near top performer, so it's not like he's bad just doesn't want to deal with the RAGE.
Lol indeed.
I also tend to mute a lot of people who rage. Thanks to that feature for existing. The 'fun curve' for MOBAs is a lot more extreme than other games in my experience. The highs are much more fun than most other games, but the lows are also a lot more frustrating. Seriously, some of the people I've had to deal with could win a darwin award.
On the flip side I've also met a lot of cool / chill people through MOBAs. Some pro, some trying to be, some just smart people who enjoy the strategy of these games. We usually just play w/e to have fun, even if it's not the best pick. But we also understand the game we're playing and expect some level of that if we're teamed up with other random people as well. It sucks when that doesn't happen, but it's a complicated issue. Part of the problem is game population, part of it is matchmaking, part of it is players getting carried into higher brackets than their skill level warrants.
- Also, while it's a common misconception, 'ranked' isn't the esports part of the game. It's often a gateway to meeting that side of the game, but there are a lot of differences. Many things that carry ranked games simply don't work in the esports scene, because people know how to punish them. But in a team of random people who may or may not play well together, it's much easier to get away with things like cheese, or exploiting the weakest link of the enemy team until you have such a big lead that it's too difficult for your team to lose. It's unfortunate that such things happen, but it's pretty common in all team-based competitive games.
real sports have independent institutions, observers, judges and executioners in place to force sportsmanship at all turns and punish bad conduct, and to force good behaviour, and minimize everything not related to the gameplay itself.
However that only applies to professional play, feeders, flamers, trolls, elitist, apologists, sociopaths, psychopaths, noobs, newbies and wannabe "pros" are all still there in everyday playing of all sports, everywhere near and around you on courts and fields, and FIFA, NBA, and etc, ... are not involved in all these sport games.
Nobody gets worked up and much goes and whines all around much if they go to a basketball court, start playing bad, and then get their ball stolen, possible beaten and thrown out by "regular pros". It's become just a part of life, and we chug it down to, bad people and good people doing bad things, just ignore them.
However the same is not true in e-sports, the whine is at an all time high and everyone is demanding social justice like we're in a socialistic marxist utopia, ...
The problem is that ranked play in mobas is a professional type of play, while having the construct of a everyday friendly match of football or basketball.
It's like if they allowed everyone to participate in the nba, no matter how short, weak, incompetent or mentally unstable. The exact same would happen as what is happening in esports in general now.
It's a whole new wide world with new rules and old constructs, and we are in the wild wild west phase atm before we figure out how to regulate all of this and to make people chug any bad experience in esports and mobas down to, good and bad people doing bad things, what u gonna do eh, not esports, moba, game or communities fault.
You'd be surprised.
For one, esports actually do have independant judges, and institutions that enforce good behavior. In fact most pro teams self-enforce 'professional' / sportsmanly behavior amongst there team, and there have been numerous cases of pro players being kicked from teams for being toxic. This has happened across multiple games, from Starcraft to MOBAs, and to a lesser extent CS:GO.
Conversely, I've known schools to severely handhold people when playing competitive sports like basketball. Implementing rules that essentially make it impossible for anyone to lose (i.e. scores not being tallied, rules not being enforced, etc. etc.). This doesn't always carry over to friends on a public field / court, but it is there. I don't agree with it, but the mentality still exists. I'm glad I did not grow up within such an environment, because the real world doesn't work that way.
I mentioned this in my last post, but ranked play is not professional. There is a difference. A lot of players think they're 'the sh@%' because they're good at ranked, but it's not uncommon to see good ranked players fail in a professional setting. There is a reason for that. Ranked is basically for players who want to play the game as it's intended, and want to improve / play at a high level. It's sort of the equivelant of joining a chess club. You share strats, game knowledge, and expand your own understanding of the game.
Professional play is esports, period. As I previously state there are a number of strategies and playstyle that work great in ranked, but backfire severely in professional play.
MOBA's are probably the simplest pvp lobby games ever made. It really does not take more than a couple of hours to understand what to do and how to play them effectively. They are extremely casual and if you are not able to play a MOBA after 3-4h you need to ask yourself if gaming is really for you.
All MOBA's are repetitive and follow an extremely simplistic script that pretty much never changes.
If you understand Rock-Paper-Scissors you can play any MOBA.
Comments
real sports have independent institutions, observers, judges and executioners in place to force sportsmanship at all turns and punish bad conduct, and to force good behaviour, and minimize everything not related to the gameplay itself.
However that only applies to professional play, feeders, flamers, trolls, elitist, apologists, sociopaths, psychopaths, noobs, newbies and wannabe "pros" are all still there in everyday playing of all sports, everywhere near and around you on courts and fields, and FIFA, NBA, and etc, ... are not involved in all these sport games.
Nobody gets worked up and much goes and whines all around much if they go to a basketball court, start playing bad, and then get their ball stolen, possible beaten and thrown out by "regular pros". It's become just a part of life, and we chug it down to, bad people and good people doing bad things, just ignore them.
However the same is not true in e-sports, the whine is at an all time high and everyone is demanding social justice like we're in a socialistic marxist utopia, ...
The problem is that ranked play in mobas is a professional type of play, while having the construct of a everyday friendly match of football or basketball.
It's like if they allowed everyone to participate in the nba, no matter how short, weak, incompetent or mentally unstable. The exact same would happen as what is happening in esports in general now.
It's a whole new wide world with new rules and old constructs, and we are in the wild wild west phase atm before we figure out how to regulate all of this and to make people chug any bad experience in esports and mobas down to, good and bad people doing bad things, what u gonna do eh, not esports, moba, game or communities fault.
That must be it... these whiny social justice warriors need to leave their Marxist utopia and suck it up... or something.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy, the glaring disregard(and not knowing) of history, lack of foresight, absence of vision, and general complacency, ...
Once the correct institutions and rules are in place, there's going to be a significant decrease in all of this(primarily the "toxic community")
But of course in my personal opinion it will never reach the levels of real sports, simply because of how easier it is to compete in competitive environments, and how many more people are in various stages of competing in the aformentioned environments.
The playing field is similar, but has evolved in different ways, as has everything since the advent of the internet, and the increased global social connectivity.
Lol indeed.
I also tend to mute a lot of people who rage. Thanks to that feature for existing. The 'fun curve' for MOBAs is a lot more extreme than other games in my experience. The highs are much more fun than most other games, but the lows are also a lot more frustrating. Seriously, some of the people I've had to deal with could win a darwin award.
On the flip side I've also met a lot of cool / chill people through MOBAs. Some pro, some trying to be, some just smart people who enjoy the strategy of these games. We usually just play w/e to have fun, even if it's not the best pick. But we also understand the game we're playing and expect some level of that if we're teamed up with other random people as well. It sucks when that doesn't happen, but it's a complicated issue. Part of the problem is game population, part of it is matchmaking, part of it is players getting carried into higher brackets than their skill level warrants.
- Also, while it's a common misconception, 'ranked' isn't the esports part of the game. It's often a gateway to meeting that side of the game, but there are a lot of differences. Many things that carry ranked games simply don't work in the esports scene, because people know how to punish them. But in a team of random people who may or may not play well together, it's much easier to get away with things like cheese, or exploiting the weakest link of the enemy team until you have such a big lead that it's too difficult for your team to lose. It's unfortunate that such things happen, but it's pretty common in all team-based competitive games.
You'd be surprised.
For one, esports actually do have independant judges, and institutions that enforce good behavior. In fact most pro teams self-enforce 'professional' / sportsmanly behavior amongst there team, and there have been numerous cases of pro players being kicked from teams for being toxic. This has happened across multiple games, from Starcraft to MOBAs, and to a lesser extent CS:GO.
Conversely, I've known schools to severely handhold people when playing competitive sports like basketball. Implementing rules that essentially make it impossible for anyone to lose (i.e. scores not being tallied, rules not being enforced, etc. etc.). This doesn't always carry over to friends on a public field / court, but it is there. I don't agree with it, but the mentality still exists. I'm glad I did not grow up within such an environment, because the real world doesn't work that way.
I mentioned this in my last post, but ranked play is not professional. There is a difference. A lot of players think they're 'the sh@%' because they're good at ranked, but it's not uncommon to see good ranked players fail in a professional setting. There is a reason for that. Ranked is basically for players who want to play the game as it's intended, and want to improve / play at a high level. It's sort of the equivelant of joining a chess club. You share strats, game knowledge, and expand your own understanding of the game.
Professional play is esports, period. As I previously state there are a number of strategies and playstyle that work great in ranked, but backfire severely in professional play.
MOBA's are probably the simplest pvp lobby games ever made. It really does not take more than a couple of hours to understand what to do and how to play them effectively. They are extremely casual and if you are not able to play a MOBA after 3-4h you need to ask yourself if gaming is really for you.
All MOBA's are repetitive and follow an extremely simplistic script that pretty much never changes.
If you understand Rock-Paper-Scissors you can play any MOBA.