I really feel bad for the fans of this game. Brads name in this industry is so bad it makes you wonder if any project with his name can fly. Seems every thread turns into a Bard thread.
Originally posted by Mavolence I chose not to back it because of tons of reasons. One of the biggest one though was I saw that crafting wasn't even part of the core game it was only a stretch goal. I mean seriously...a stretch goal for crafting?! What if i fund a game it doesn't reach the stretch goal and they dont add crafting. I'd be furious. So i refused.
agree - the use of stretch goals was horrible
many kickstarters rely on presentation and a prototype
Its all about presentation. Ideas are great, and they might fund some games, but being able to demonstrate you're capable of delivering on promises means everything.
Right now Pantheon is almost in a place where a crowdfunding campaign would be successful. At this point its as simple as a video presenting a few races, classes and combat. Throw in a few shots of a capital city and they're golden.
Personally, I think a lot of the potential backers were already onboard for SOTA. Even though there are a lot of differences, I think there was plenty of crossover especially considering many people might have backed SOTA before even knowing Pantheon existed. Richard Garriet even tried to do a cross promotional support reward thing.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle I really feel bad for the fans of this game. Brads name in this industry is so bad it makes you wonder if any project with his name can fly. Seems every thread turns into a Bard thread.
You have said the exact same thing 8 times on this thread. Why are you still trolling around here unless you have other motives.
I've never supported any KS, and I never will, because I refuse to pay for nothing less than a finished product.
Apart from that, I agree 100% with the rest of your post.
It's all because it's Brad.
Its just a shame that even when they put games in boxes, their not exactly finished these days, but I understand the sentiment, just made me smile when I read it
So true - which is why I rarely buy games at release date, either. I tend to wait a few days to check reviews.
Wow, interesting thread, to say the least. First, while I was also disappointed in some of the decisions late in Vanguard's development, where it seemed as if some on the team were pushing to make it more like Wow, at the end of the day it was a great game. It's subsequent move to F2P and resulting failure says more about SOE and the direction they took Vanguard than about Vanguard itself.
The real question is should what happened within Vanguard be an indication of what to expect in Pantheon, and for my part I'd say no. Brad is most likely not the same person and the team is not the same one that made Vanguard. There are a lot of smart decisions being made: making sure the team is of a like mind, not going after the "big guys", targeting a niche market (IMHO a much surer road to success), and having Brads role be appropriate to his expertise.
It is difficult to say whether Brad's involvement hurt Pantheon's kickstarter campaign. If I were a betting person I'd say more people liked the games he has made and contributed, than did not because they were "burned" by Vanguard." We will never know.
What interests me though is judging the "success" of any kickstarter campaign by whether it reached it's goal. Does that mean everyone would have been raving about VRI's success if it had set a goal of $300,000? What about if one person came in and donated $500,000 for whatever reason, would it have then been a success? I honestly don't know how to judge success or failure in a situation like kickstarter, since success seems to be a better indication of your ability to guess what you can raise. It seems to me that in the end the goal is to raise awareness, gauge demand, and bring in starter capital. By that measure Panthoen was at least a partial success.
Edit: Since writing this I have realized that if Kickstarter ventures don't reach their goal they don't get the money. That makes the idea that it was a failure much clearer to me. However, the kickstarter campaign was not a total loss, they gained visibility and since have launched their own private kickstarter like campaign.
Also, "...and most of the current team are volunteers. "
Disgusting. This is not some high school glee club or boy scout project. This is not a non-profit venture or a charity. This is a product being marketed and expecting, even allowing, people to work for free when the end intent is profit is horrible. They're playing around with real peoples' money here. These blurred lines between business and charity project are completely unacceptable.
You don't know what arrangement they may have with regards to a stake in the company. Remember Apple Computers was started by three guys with no major backing, working in a garage.
Also, "...and most of the current team are volunteers. "
Disgusting. This is not some high school glee club or boy scout project. This is not a non-profit venture or a charity. This is a product being marketed and expecting, even allowing, people to work for free when the end intent is profit is horrible. They're playing around with real peoples' money here. These blurred lines between business and charity project are completely unacceptable.
You don't know what arrangement they may have with regards to a stake in the company. Remember Apple Computers was started by three guys with no major backing, working in a garage.
Well said. Its a shame that they don't have any big backers (that I know of) yet, but you have to admire the work which is being done on probably just a few bucks coming in from the diehard fans on their forums.
As much as they have said they don't really want to do another kickstarter, I really hope that once they get to a place where they have the basics built out they can launch some really great videos demonstrating some classes, combat mechanics and some vanity shots of a city or two. I really feel like thats all this game ever really needed to fund a kickstarter, but they simply jumped the gun.
Whether you like Crowfall or not, you really have to admire the way they did it. Perfectly executed hype campaign trickling in info and features followed by a decent little demo video and bam, they doubled their 800k goal for a new type of game that really has no proof of concept. I believe a spiritual successor to games loved by so many could successfully raise some money if they followed suit.
Comments
agree - the use of stretch goals was horrible
many kickstarters rely on presentation and a prototype
Pantheon KS lacked on presentation
EQ2 fan sites
Its all about presentation. Ideas are great, and they might fund some games, but being able to demonstrate you're capable of delivering on promises means everything.
Right now Pantheon is almost in a place where a crowdfunding campaign would be successful. At this point its as simple as a video presenting a few races, classes and combat. Throw in a few shots of a capital city and they're golden.
You have said the exact same thing 8 times on this thread. Why are you still trolling around here unless you have other motives.
So true - which is why I rarely buy games at release date, either. I tend to wait a few days to check reviews.
Wow, interesting thread, to say the least. First, while I was also disappointed in some of the decisions late in Vanguard's development, where it seemed as if some on the team were pushing to make it more like Wow, at the end of the day it was a great game. It's subsequent move to F2P and resulting failure says more about SOE and the direction they took Vanguard than about Vanguard itself.
The real question is should what happened within Vanguard be an indication of what to expect in Pantheon, and for my part I'd say no. Brad is most likely not the same person and the team is not the same one that made Vanguard. There are a lot of smart decisions being made: making sure the team is of a like mind, not going after the "big guys", targeting a niche market (IMHO a much surer road to success), and having Brads role be appropriate to his expertise.
It is difficult to say whether Brad's involvement hurt Pantheon's kickstarter campaign. If I were a betting person I'd say more people liked the games he has made and contributed, than did not because they were "burned" by Vanguard." We will never know.
What interests me though is judging the "success" of any kickstarter campaign by whether it reached it's goal. Does that mean everyone would have been raving about VRI's success if it had set a goal of $300,000? What about if one person came in and donated $500,000 for whatever reason, would it have then been a success? I honestly don't know how to judge success or failure in a situation like kickstarter, since success seems to be a better indication of your ability to guess what you can raise. It seems to me that in the end the goal is to raise awareness, gauge demand, and bring in starter capital. By that measure Panthoen was at least a partial success.
Edit: Since writing this I have realized that if Kickstarter ventures don't reach their goal they don't get the money. That makes the idea that it was a failure much clearer to me. However, the kickstarter campaign was not a total loss, they gained visibility and since have launched their own private kickstarter like campaign.
You don't know what arrangement they may have with regards to a stake in the company. Remember Apple Computers was started by three guys with no major backing, working in a garage.
Well said. Its a shame that they don't have any big backers (that I know of) yet, but you have to admire the work which is being done on probably just a few bucks coming in from the diehard fans on their forums.
As much as they have said they don't really want to do another kickstarter, I really hope that once they get to a place where they have the basics built out they can launch some really great videos demonstrating some classes, combat mechanics and some vanity shots of a city or two. I really feel like thats all this game ever really needed to fund a kickstarter, but they simply jumped the gun.
Whether you like Crowfall or not, you really have to admire the way they did it. Perfectly executed hype campaign trickling in info and features followed by a decent little demo video and bam, they doubled their 800k goal for a new type of game that really has no proof of concept. I believe a spiritual successor to games loved by so many could successfully raise some money if they followed suit.