GW2 is superior system but they had to make game (including dungeons) because people wanted to "tank" and "heal".
But it IS superior to any trinity combat ever. Thers just lot of people who want easier simplistic combat system, just like they want wasier game in general.
The truth is that you COULD/CAN bypass trinity/GW2 sytem in majority of content in any game mentioned here.
GW2 is superior to nothing: you may enjoy Tank-Mage class systems, but that is all it is, a personal preference.
There is nothing easy or simplistic about role-based class systems. Teamwork and interdependence is inherently more complex than a Tank-Mage system where everyone is expected to be self-sufficient.
I can do a lot of things; can and should are two very different things. People who don't understand the distinction typically come to a very bad end.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
GW2 is superior system but they had to make game (including dungeons) because people wanted to "tank" and "heal".
But it IS superior to any trinity combat ever. Thers just lot of people who want easier simplistic combat system, just like they want wasier game in general.
The truth is that you COULD/CAN bypass trinity/GW2 sytem in majority of content in any game mentioned here.
That is great. You have an opinion. We all know what it is. Saying it over and over doesn't make it a fact.
While part you highlighted is opinion, you cannot dismiss the rest. There is no trinity but that does not mean there is no strategy/teamwork. Most people who complain about GW2 lack of healing (only self heals /cry) don't understand the mechanics of combo fields. Combo fields, esp in pvp, create a teamwork strategy like no other MMO can emulate. Coordinating your combo fields/blasts with the rest of your team requires teamspeak of some sorts, it is vertually impossible for pugs to accomplish, which is why this system is a turn off for so many modern day MMOers who just want to go it alone and be anti-social.
GW2 is superior system but they had to make game (including dungeons) because people wanted to "tank" and "heal".
But it IS superior to any trinity combat ever. Thers just lot of people who want easier simplistic combat system, just like they want wasier game in general.
The truth is that you COULD/CAN bypass trinity/GW2 sytem in majority of content in any game mentioned here.
GW2 is superior to nothing: you may enjoy Tank-Mage class systems, but that is all it is, a personal preference.
There is nothing easy or simplistic about role-based class systems. Teamwork and interdependence is inherently more complex than a Tank-Mage system where everyone is expected to be self-sufficient.
I can do a lot of things; can and should are two very different things. People who don't understand the distinction typically come to a very bad end.
GW2 is more complex than any trinity based system. I love trinity, I have no problem with it, but the ignorance around here regarding GW2's complex teamwork system is very apparent. Trinity is much easier than coordinating a team in GW2. And it is only chaotic if you are in a pug or trying to fight without comms.
The superior part is an opinion, but it is not an irrational one if you actually understand the mechanics of GW2's system.
I know EQ diehard fans try to make the game look like the best thing since sliced bread, but I stopped being a fan long time ago and am just an ex player now. EQ is the model of all MMOs based on threat tables. No way the mobs were going for the healers first so they could wipe a group/raid in a few seconds. If we have that kind of gameplay invading almost all games today, it's because of EQ.
I suggest you drop those rose colored glasses and come back to reality.
In case you are not familiar with computer coding.. You have two choices in mob combat actions.. They either perform total random actions, or they follow a code formulated based on a table.. Total random threat is a possibility if the mobs are just brainless.. (I'm ok with that).. The only other option is mobs follow a written code.. Now this is where I think you are confused and misunderstanding myself and many others.. That code could be "XX amount of heals = agro".. or "closest player = agro".. or "XX amount of dps = agro".. There are many variables that can make up the threat/agro system.. I prefer a logical formulation of that.. Such as a dog or other stupid mob has NO CLUE what a healer is.. So why would a dumb animal or plant go after a healer? They have no clue why the player infront of them is not appear to be dying.. I object giving EVERY mob a genius IQ just so YOU can feel challenged by a plant..
You have stated you are against threat / agro tables.. What you need to say is that I'm against poorly designed stupid tables.. There I think we all can agree.. What WoW does with AOE "taunting" is insane, and makes the game too easy.. What EQ did way back in the day was far better then anything I've played since..
Originally posted by Nightbringe1
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Come on, both you and me know that was not true.
It was, and still is, true.
Agro management, without benefit of meters or bars is a very real aspect of the game. More than one group has wiped when someone started spamming heals / nukes and ripped agro off the tank.
So true.. So true.. It was easy to pull agro if you wanted to in EQ.. WoW on the other hand is much harder to pull agro from the tank because of their overuse of uber "taunting".. Hell I remember at times in EQ pulling agro from the tank because I cast my snare spell back to back.. OOOOPS.. my bad..
In case you are not familiar with computer coding....."random" is also coding.
And, until true Ai is developed and implemented in MMOs it will all be nice little script.
And you are right, various mobs should behave differently based on their "intelligence". Pack of rabid dogs will attack at random. "Hunters" will attack weakest menmbers (just like lion doesnt go for biggest baddest member of the heard but prey on the young ones), intelligent will have more elaborate scripts to assess threats.
But all that goes down the drain with trinity since mobs have to be balanced in stats to pose a threat to the tank that gets unlimited HP from heals. And ALL act in same manner, ie, going for the biggest HP most heavily armored TANK, than in return tickles them with damage
Drawing aggro is a matter of skill, BUT combat system is VERY simple. I already said, it works because its simple, everyone is assigned a place by default and thats it. Combine that with utterly stupid mobs that behave completely predictable ACROSS the board.
There are many games that have combat that doesn't rely on the trinity. I didnt' ASK that.. I said give me a game that has "smart" AI mob combat.. And (while I'm sure this may have just been a typo on your end), there is no such thing as 'role playing combat' outside of LARPing. Class-oriented is a thing, and probably what you meant. NO.. I said ROLE playing, as in I play a role, such as the QB plays a role in the football game.. Get it? You are the one misreading.. It's what most games use. As for games that don't rely on the trinity system there are a number, I'll list a few of the MMOs, but because many of them aren't perfect examples, Again, I didn't say name me games that don't rely on the trinity.. I said name me games with smart mob AI's.. We are all ears, and please reread what I actually said too.. TY I know people tend to argue about them or discount them entire. However, some of the main ones we have are Eve, Planetside 2, GW2. That said, as a much more tangible example, I'll use a non-MMO game. Final Fantasy. While many of them have the option to turn your party into the standard trinity, ALL of them have enough customization as to that being unnecessary. Furthermore most bosses and encounters are much faster if you don't have your party setup as a typical trinity. I could go on, but this wall of text is getting bloated enough as is. Yes it is, especially since you went off on a tangent arguing about something I never said..
Originally posted by aesperus
Merely pointing out that just because the words (threat) are the same, the meanings are not automatically interchangeable. There are different ways in which the word 'threat' is used, and you used one (as applied to video game AI) in relationship to another (as applied to assessing real-world danger). They are not even remotely close to the same thing. The AI threat does the exact opposite of what you do in your real-world examples. The AI is specifically designed so that the character that is the least dangerous (the tank) holds the greatest threat. Seriously dude.. you are way off base in your assumptions.. Instead of just making excused to detract your mistake and misunderstanding, just say "sorry bro".. Threat indeed as multiple meanings and YOU chose the wrong one in debating me, and you were wrong.. Next topic.. TY
No one explicitly stated this. But by using real world threat as a comparison to gaming threat, you've implied similarities. This is merely an extension of the above point that the meanings are NOT interchangeable. There are no conclusions here, just examples of why the same word doesn't apply equally to both situations. Because in each case it's being used in a very different way, with a very different meaning. One is a term adopted by a primitive AI system, the other is a term used to assess danger. Again, you misread and focused on one tiny definition of a word used and then went off on a strawman debate completely missing the topic.. It would be easier for you to just say "sorry bro" then to again continue defending your mistake.. TY
Here is where you start to make assumptions about my meaning. I've never said anywhere about abolishing code, that would be foolish. Then why are you arguing with me and others.. Jean Luc is saying that codes are bad, and threat management is bad.. No one is arguing that there aren't bad codes out there.. I think WoW's suck to be honest.. but I have yet to see any as good as the original EQ..
I prefer having the choice of playing an Aircraft Carrier, Battleship, Destroyer, Cruisers, Frigates, Corvettes and Submarines as an example.. I think it's crazy to play a Naval vessel that does it all.. I like roles
Answered mostly up above.
I'm not sure we disagree on all points, I just think that many of your examples / comparisons are very much flawed. Real combat works very much differently than standard MMO combat. It is chaotic, it requires quick decision making, it's not structured unless you choose to make it so. Games can very much do that same style of combat, we just refuse to let them do so, because it requires more effort on our parts (we have to be more responsible for our choices in game).
I agree with more choice, I like being able to play many different things within a game. I like versatility. What I don't like is how most of these games have roles basically limited to 1 or 2 simple rotations and we applaud it. Right now we have so much flexibility in our single player and smaller-group multiplayer games. And yet for some reason we refuse to believe that any of that could ever be applied to an MMO. Even though that is exactly how this genre was founded.
Nothing flawed with my logic or examples, you just misunderstood them in a different light.. Naturally it is easy to assume and misunderstand what someone writes, becasue, well you're not in my head and we are not talking face to face, but here is a quick example..
I'm playing an EQ druid, while my partner is playing an EQ Necromancer w/ pet.. As we are hiking over the terrain, we stumble across a small group of Orcs.. It looks like 2 of them are grunts and an apparent leader Centurion.. I really don't want to deal with the leader right now, so I "harmonize" the leader into a foggy state of mind.. Between the Necro and myself we both snare and pull the grunts and sick the skelly pet on one.. Well here is where threat trinity stuff comes into play.. These grunts are absolutely stupid.. They have no idea I'm a druid, my partner a Necro and who or why they are snared, but what they do know and react to is the skelly beating on them with a sword.. It is only logical that such stupid mobs aren't even worried about us, but are only concetrating on the skelly that is immediate in their face combat.. Remember the grunts are so stupid they don't even know what a healer is, or much of anything else besides kill, eat and shit..
Now as the fight progresses the grunts are near death and the Centurion leader snaps out of his fog and goes ape shit on skelly.. I toss the skelly a heal.. OOPS.. Mr. Centurion isn't as stupid as the grunts and he knows I"m a supporter and an increasing threat.. He still hasn't come after me, but he has looked my direction.. I toss in a second heal on skelly.. Damn, at this point the Centurion not only looks at me, but now starts running my way.. I am now a bigger threat to the Orc leader..
What I'm getting here is that Orc leader is responding to "numbers" on a code formula.. If that code is properly written, it will take many things into consideration when dealing with who gets punched in the face and who doesn't.. My snares should register a number.. My heals should register a number.. The skelly's sword attacks should register a number.. My location should matter.. (afterall if I am 50m away, do you think the mob is going to ignore all those in his face, in hopes of attacking me 4 minutes later?) Now we can talk about which mobs get a detailed formula like I just stated, and which dumb mobs only get a basic "dps=agro" code..
I also would like to see mobs with more challenging skills such as "charm" that Evil eyes loved using.. or mobs that "polymorphed" you into a squirrel for a few.. General open world mobs are too simplistic and "taunting" is way OP, especially in WoW..
In case you are not familiar with computer coding....."random" is also coding. Dude, c'mon, we are talking about either random results, or pre-fixed ones.. such as rolling a die (random) or a loaded die..
And, until true Ai is developed and implemented in MMOs it will all be nice little script.
And you are right, various mobs should behave differently based on their "intelligence". Pack of rabid dogs will attack at random. "Hunters" will attack weakest menmbers (just like lion doesnt go for biggest baddest member of the heard but prey on the young ones), intelligent will have more elaborate scripts to assess threats.
But all that goes down the drain with trinity since mobs have to be balanced in stats to pose a threat to the tank that gets unlimited HP from heals. And ALL act in same manner, ie, going for the biggest HP most heavily armored TANK, than in return tickles them with damage Here is where you go off on a tangent.. You seem to be focused on tank/healer as the ONLY trinity(role) system out there.. It is not.. Any role combat can and should succeed regardless of group make up.. Healers aren't required.. Tanks aren't required.. CC isn't required.. etc etc.. NO one I have read is advocating that mobs are required to attack the biggest tank in the group and ignore everyone else.. You are the only one fighting that cause..
Drawing aggro is a matter of skill, BUT combat system is VERY simple. I already said, it works because its simple, everyone is assigned a place by default and thats it. Combine that with utterly stupid mobs that behave completely predictable ACROSS the board. ?????????????????????????????Can you elaborate more on that..
In case you are not familiar with computer coding....."random" is also coding. Dude, c'mon, we are talking about either random results, or pre-fixed ones.. such as rolling a die (random) or a loaded die..
And, until true Ai is developed and implemented in MMOs it will all be nice little script.
And you are right, various mobs should behave differently based on their "intelligence". Pack of rabid dogs will attack at random. "Hunters" will attack weakest menmbers (just like lion doesnt go for biggest baddest member of the heard but prey on the young ones), intelligent will have more elaborate scripts to assess threats.
But all that goes down the drain with trinity since mobs have to be balanced in stats to pose a threat to the tank that gets unlimited HP from heals. And ALL act in same manner, ie, going for the biggest HP most heavily armored TANK, than in return tickles them with damage Here is where you go off on a tangent.. You seem to be focused on tank/healer as the ONLY trinity(role) system out there.. It is not.. Any role combat can and should succeed regardless of group make up.. Healers aren't required.. Tanks aren't required.. CC isn't required.. etc etc.. NO one I have read is advocating that mobs are required to attack the biggest tank in the group and ignore everyone else.. You are the only one fighting that cause..
Drawing aggro is a matter of skill, BUT combat system is VERY simple. I already said, it works because its simple, everyone is assigned a place by default and thats it. Combine that with utterly stupid mobs that behave completely predictable ACROSS the board. ?????????????????????????????Can you elaborate more on that..
Go play some top PvE/PvP in trinty games today and then come back and report to us what is and what isnt required, and how does it work lol
Again EQ didn't have a trinity. Pulling, crowd control, debuffing were just as important and you could not have a single pure DPS and still thrive. In raids you generally had to have off tanks with healing rotations specific to them etc. It was almost never the tank holds aggro, the healer heals him and everyone just DPS's like in WoW.
GW2 has just about the worst PvE combat of any game out there so stop with the GW2 does it right. The WoW trinity is bad too, especially after the last few expansions turned it into an AOE fest. A truly good non trinity game would allow your tank to protect people by using short term abilities to reroute damage. Healers would protect people with short term defensive spells etc. GW2's idea of doing away with the trinity is fine but the implementation was atrocious.
Coding software is my job, been doing that the best part of the last 25 years and as a hobby before since I was 12, and what you say is complete bullshit. You try to sound like some "pro" even though you know nothing and are just stupidly repeating parts of something that was said more intelligently on some other website.
Don't confuse what you think is the way to do things and how things are really done by professionals. Maybe read a book about AI, or even web sites, because there's much more than just random or table.
If you claim to do computer programing, remind me to never hire you.. You only have two choices in code.. something that is a random result such as a lottery number being drawn, or a scripted result in which the outcome is a result of a predictable formulated code.. PERIOD.. If you are such the expert why don't you tell us your secret to threat/agro system.. LOL This we would love to read..
Coding software is my job, been doing that the best part of the last 25 years and as a hobby before since I was 12, and what you say is complete bullshit. You try to sound like some "pro" even though you know nothing and are just stupidly repeating parts of something that was said more intelligently on some other website.
Don't confuse what you think is the way to do things and how things are really done by professionals. Maybe read a book about AI, or even web sites, because there's much more than just random or table.
If you claim to do computer programing, remind me to never hire you.. You only have two choices in code.. something that is a random result such as a lottery number being drawn, or a scripted result in which the outcome is a result of a predictable formulated code.. PERIOD.. If you are such the expert why don't you tell us your secret to threat/agro system.. LOL This we would love to read..
No... just no. Your idea that there are only two option - completely random or completely scripted is ridiculous. Just let this one go.
Coding software is my job, been doing that the best part of the last 25 years and as a hobby before since I was 12, and what you say is complete bullshit. You try to sound like some "pro" even though you know nothing and are just stupidly repeating parts of something that was said more intelligently on some other website.
Don't confuse what you think is the way to do things and how things are really done by professionals. Maybe read a book about AI, or even web sites, because there's much more than just random or table.
If you claim to do computer programing, remind me to never hire you.. You only have two choices in code.. something that is a random result such as a lottery number being drawn, or a scripted result in which the outcome is a result of a predictable formulated code.. PERIOD.. If you are such the expert why don't you tell us your secret to threat/agro system.. LOL This we would love to read..
No... just no. Your idea that there are only two option - completely random or completely scripted is ridiculous. Just let this one go.
OH but I won't.. A computer code only has two choices when performing a task.. random & script.. and I would love to hear how there is a 3rd or more options on how computer programming works.. LOL.. BTW.. no one said anything about "completely".. You can scripted a code with some random elements within it, but the end results will always dictated by the code..
Has a Non-Trinity MMO ever made you more interested in the Trinity?
If so, how did it do so?
GW2 made me realize how shallow PvE tends to be without a trinity.
Really? Because tank trinity combat is about as shallow and thoughtless as it gets. Tank taunts and cycles through aggro skills. Healer heals. Others dps. If it gets really complicated you make the encounter bigger and require an off-tank and a secondary healer. In that situation the off-tank grabs the add waves and the off healer supports the main and drops aoe heals to keep the group up. That's why challenging raids in games like Rift have a bunch of simon says disco mechanics so people have to think a little.
Nothing wrong with that style of combat but to say it's deep compared to other styles really isn't honest. GW2 doesn't feel any more or less shallow to me than other systems.
Coding software is my job, been doing that the best part of the last 25 years and as a hobby before since I was 12, and what you say is complete bullshit. You try to sound like some "pro" even though you know nothing and are just stupidly repeating parts of something that was said more intelligently on some other website.
Don't confuse what you think is the way to do things and how things are really done by professionals. Maybe read a book about AI, or even web sites, because there's much more than just random or table.
If you claim to do computer programing, remind me to never hire you.. You only have two choices in code.. something that is a random result such as a lottery number being drawn, or a scripted result in which the outcome is a result of a predictable formulated code.. PERIOD.. If you are such the expert why don't you tell us your secret to threat/agro system.. LOL This we would love to read..
No... just no. Your idea that there are only two option - completely random or completely scripted is ridiculous. Just let this one go.
OH but I won't.. A computer code only has two choices when performing a task.. random & script.. and I would love to hear how there is a 3rd or more options on how computer programming works.. LOL.. BTW.. no one said anything about "completely".. You can scripted a code with some random elements within it, but the end results will always dictated by the code..
That isn't how programming works at all.
We are all ears and eyes.. DO inform us how combat code works.. You stated a comment, NOW back it up
I don't want to shoehorn myself into the trinity box, but I do prefer unique class defining skills.. Today's games are very limiting in the roles a person can perform and seem watered down.. Almost every game I've played since EQ has some form of rogue/thief, but they don't steal anything? COUGH COUGH.. Why can't I play a RPG game where I make a living stealing/pick pocketing PvE content.. Paladins that actually play like one..
There are so many options out there to make a vibrant rpg game, however one thing that has to be addressed and ignored is PvP combat balance.. SCREW THAT.. If my character has the ability to mind control and charm a target for 5 minutes.. OH WELL.. If my warrior has the ability to knock you out for up to 5 minutes.. OH WELL.. If my necro fears you and you run blindly away for 1 minute.. OH WELL.. If my druid roots your ass for up to 5 minutes.. OH WELL.. Ya'll get the idea, PvP balance has to be ignored for the sake of PvE role play..
So.. I don't demand class defining roles, but I do want to see class defining skills/abilities.. How a player uses those skills is up to them.. In my dream game, each class would have a unique skill not shared by others, such as rez.. In addition each class would have a secondary skills that can be shared between multiple classes, such as healing.. As a general rule of thumb tho, similar to GW2 I do enjoy classes have have the ability to solo combat, even squishies.. However, I think GW2 allows for too much dps, and not enough class defining skills, so you end up with zergwars.
I couldn't have said this better myself. This is also what I want, and also the short comings in GW2.
But isn't this what TESO offers now? you can get really rich just by pickpocketing ppl and by stealing stuff....
Wrong. You had classes which resisted damage better than others, but there was no tank as they exist in MMORPGs. You had no threat table. Hate to correct you, but not so.. Even back in the 70's when I started playing AD&D, we had meat shields in our adventure groups. The person with the best AC lead the group incase we walked into a problem.. Now granted the DM (whom controlled the mobs) could just say the orc ignores the warrior and heads straight to the mage, but even the DM needs to play fairly, or he'll lose his group..
Dunno what DM you had, but he wasn't very good apparently if he treated Pen and Paper like if he was playing EQ 20 years later. He must have been someone similar to those who made EQ, and dumbed down PnP RPGs into the MMORPG trinity thing.
I have years of pen and paper RPGs under my belt myself, and never did a DM keep a "threat table" and make only the plate wearer tank while the healer was unharmed. The meat shield going first to take the first hits of an ambush isn't the same has all mobs being totally retarded and staying on the meat shield without hope to kill him while getting nuked down by everyone else.
The worse is not the trinity. The worse is the threat mechanics, which are completely artificial. Afraid to tell, that threat mechanics are ALL around us, even in life.. There is a reason why Aircraft Carriers are primary focus.. There is a reason why the ALL-PRO defensive end gets double teamed.. There is a reason why cops subdue the guy first instead of his girlfriend (unless she's packing a gun), but then her threat number would change and she would be primary focus.. OUR Attention, as it should be in a game is all about "threat and grabbing attention".. Now I will agree that many devs FAILED to correctly design a better threat formula, but that is a different topic..
Thank you for confirming what I have posted, even though I doubt it was intentional. Yep, the aircraft carrioer is the primary focus... because without it, everything else falters, because it is indeed the highest threat since it generates most of the other threats, and because it actually can be crippled to make it useless.
If you apply your lousy but inadvertantly amusing analogy to a MMO with the trinity, the aircraft carrier is the healer since he carries everyone else and without him, the rest of the group is dead. So why are all mobs, including highly intelligent bosses (gods, dragons, genius level intellects), focusing on the heavy plate wearer while the healer keeps him alive unharmed?
The answer is simple... because that mechanic is dumbed down, and because it makes the developer work easy.
Want to know how threat should work in a trinity MMORPG? Looks at its PvP. You don't have agro from tanks, the players decide who to kill first. There was one encounter in WoW which was built like that, the champions in Crusader's, and it's still one of the best raid encounters of the game despite the poor quality of the rest of that instance.
You mention EQ so often, yet you never even played it, or if you did you failed to understand anything around you.
Mobs always went for the biggest threat first. They'd often run right past the tank if he hadn't built threat and bash a healer or wizard as they started casting. If they managed to land the spell, they'd basically be dead unless someone got CC off on them.
Threat in EQ was always about keeping up damage and impairments on the mob to retain aggro. It was no simple process like you explain from your World of Warcraft days. It wasn't snap aggro buttons like modern mmos, it was using the right abilities and weapons (with detrimental procs) to gradually generate aggro to prevent others from dying. If the casters didn't lay low and away from the mobs, they'd immediately turn to them and dirt nap them.
The same scenario that would happen in a police raid as described above is what would happen in Everquest. If the wizard was wielding his weapon, even so much as begun casting a spell as the mobs approached, they naturally ran to them. If they yielded and the defensive classes showed aggression, they'd engage them while remaining leery of the hostile high dmg high healing classes.
I suggest you go back and play an emu and get an education before further embarrassing yourself.
Come on, both you and me know that was not true.
I know EQ diehard fans try to make the game look like the best thing since sliced bread, but I stopped being a fan long time ago and am just an ex player now. EQ is the model of all MMOs based on threat tables. No way the mobs were going for the healers first so they could wipe a group/raid in a few seconds. If we have that kind of gameplay invading almost all games today, it's because of EQ.
I suggest you drop those rose colored glasses and come back to reality.
Not only is it the way it worked then, you can still play p99 today and see it for yourself. Go ahead and heal the tank soon as he engages a mob and watch it attack you. In the beginning of a fight, a mob will randomly attack anyone that poses a threat until someone has giving it a bigger reason to attack them, or they have CC'd the mob.
I never liked the holy trinity with aggro taunting mechanic. The first time I played it , it already felt outdated. In most cases it is also very simple. Just look at the most popular themepark MMO and see how people streaming that have no problem raiding or pvping while reading chat, looking telly or being distracted otherwise. You wouldn't be able to do that if combat was challenging.
Now, that doesn't mean it can't be fun. But it rarely is challenging in my experience. Most MMO's though don't go for challenging content. Or just use some lame crutch to make certain encounters in their game a bit more challenging.
Comments
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
While part you highlighted is opinion, you cannot dismiss the rest. There is no trinity but that does not mean there is no strategy/teamwork. Most people who complain about GW2 lack of healing (only self heals /cry) don't understand the mechanics of combo fields. Combo fields, esp in pvp, create a teamwork strategy like no other MMO can emulate. Coordinating your combo fields/blasts with the rest of your team requires teamspeak of some sorts, it is vertually impossible for pugs to accomplish, which is why this system is a turn off for so many modern day MMOers who just want to go it alone and be anti-social.
GW2 is more complex than any trinity based system. I love trinity, I have no problem with it, but the ignorance around here regarding GW2's complex teamwork system is very apparent. Trinity is much easier than coordinating a team in GW2. And it is only chaotic if you are in a pug or trying to fight without comms.
The superior part is an opinion, but it is not an irrational one if you actually understand the mechanics of GW2's system.
In case you are not familiar with computer coding....."random" is also coding.
And, until true Ai is developed and implemented in MMOs it will all be nice little script.
And you are right, various mobs should behave differently based on their "intelligence". Pack of rabid dogs will attack at random. "Hunters" will attack weakest menmbers (just like lion doesnt go for biggest baddest member of the heard but prey on the young ones), intelligent will have more elaborate scripts to assess threats.
But all that goes down the drain with trinity since mobs have to be balanced in stats to pose a threat to the tank that gets unlimited HP from heals. And ALL act in same manner, ie, going for the biggest HP most heavily armored TANK, than in return tickles them with damage
Drawing aggro is a matter of skill, BUT combat system is VERY simple. I already said, it works because its simple, everyone is assigned a place by default and thats it. Combine that with utterly stupid mobs that behave completely predictable ACROSS the board.
Nothing flawed with my logic or examples, you just misunderstood them in a different light.. Naturally it is easy to assume and misunderstand what someone writes, becasue, well you're not in my head and we are not talking face to face, but here is a quick example..
I'm playing an EQ druid, while my partner is playing an EQ Necromancer w/ pet.. As we are hiking over the terrain, we stumble across a small group of Orcs.. It looks like 2 of them are grunts and an apparent leader Centurion.. I really don't want to deal with the leader right now, so I "harmonize" the leader into a foggy state of mind.. Between the Necro and myself we both snare and pull the grunts and sick the skelly pet on one.. Well here is where threat trinity stuff comes into play.. These grunts are absolutely stupid.. They have no idea I'm a druid, my partner a Necro and who or why they are snared, but what they do know and react to is the skelly beating on them with a sword.. It is only logical that such stupid mobs aren't even worried about us, but are only concetrating on the skelly that is immediate in their face combat.. Remember the grunts are so stupid they don't even know what a healer is, or much of anything else besides kill, eat and shit..
Now as the fight progresses the grunts are near death and the Centurion leader snaps out of his fog and goes ape shit on skelly.. I toss the skelly a heal.. OOPS.. Mr. Centurion isn't as stupid as the grunts and he knows I"m a supporter and an increasing threat.. He still hasn't come after me, but he has looked my direction.. I toss in a second heal on skelly.. Damn, at this point the Centurion not only looks at me, but now starts running my way.. I am now a bigger threat to the Orc leader..
What I'm getting here is that Orc leader is responding to "numbers" on a code formula.. If that code is properly written, it will take many things into consideration when dealing with who gets punched in the face and who doesn't.. My snares should register a number.. My heals should register a number.. The skelly's sword attacks should register a number.. My location should matter.. (afterall if I am 50m away, do you think the mob is going to ignore all those in his face, in hopes of attacking me 4 minutes later?) Now we can talk about which mobs get a detailed formula like I just stated, and which dumb mobs only get a basic "dps=agro" code..
I also would like to see mobs with more challenging skills such as "charm" that Evil eyes loved using.. or mobs that "polymorphed" you into a squirrel for a few.. General open world mobs are too simplistic and "taunting" is way OP, especially in WoW..
Go play some top PvE/PvP in trinty games today and then come back and report to us what is and what isnt required, and how does it work lol
Hell, go back to any trinity game ever heh
Now, which one of you will adorn me today?
Again EQ didn't have a trinity. Pulling, crowd control, debuffing were just as important and you could not have a single pure DPS and still thrive. In raids you generally had to have off tanks with healing rotations specific to them etc. It was almost never the tank holds aggro, the healer heals him and everyone just DPS's like in WoW.
GW2 has just about the worst PvE combat of any game out there so stop with the GW2 does it right. The WoW trinity is bad too, especially after the last few expansions turned it into an AOE fest. A truly good non trinity game would allow your tank to protect people by using short term abilities to reroute damage. Healers would protect people with short term defensive spells etc. GW2's idea of doing away with the trinity is fine but the implementation was atrocious.
If you claim to do computer programing, remind me to never hire you.. You only have two choices in code.. something that is a random result such as a lottery number being drawn, or a scripted result in which the outcome is a result of a predictable formulated code.. PERIOD.. If you are such the expert why don't you tell us your secret to threat/agro system.. LOL This we would love to read..
Nope the Trinity is a cop out and my most favorite game ever, Asheron's Call, created way back in 1999 did not have the trinity.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
No... just no. Your idea that there are only two option - completely random or completely scripted is ridiculous. Just let this one go.
OH but I won't.. A computer code only has two choices when performing a task.. random & script.. and I would love to hear how there is a 3rd or more options on how computer programming works.. LOL.. BTW.. no one said anything about "completely".. You can scripted a code with some random elements within it, but the end results will always dictated by the code..
Yes Really. Nothing you said is accurate.
We are all ears and eyes.. DO inform us how combat code works..
You stated a comment, NOW back it up 
But isn't this what TESO offers now? you can get really rich just by pickpocketing ppl and by stealing stuff....
Just my 2 cents...
Not only is it the way it worked then, you can still play p99 today and see it for yourself. Go ahead and heal the tank soon as he engages a mob and watch it attack you. In the beginning of a fight, a mob will randomly attack anyone that poses a threat until someone has giving it a bigger reason to attack them, or they have CC'd the mob.
Put down the hateraid and come back to reality.
No.
I never liked the holy trinity with aggro taunting mechanic. The first time I played it , it already felt outdated. In most cases it is also very simple. Just look at the most popular themepark MMO and see how people streaming that have no problem raiding or pvping while reading chat, looking telly or being distracted otherwise. You wouldn't be able to do that if combat was challenging.
Now, that doesn't mean it can't be fun. But it rarely is challenging in my experience. Most MMO's though don't go for challenging content. Or just use some lame crutch to make certain encounters in their game a bit more challenging.